Far too much premature moderating

pippip

Over the last 2 months I have noticed a huge rise in the amount of threads that are being closed before anything against the rules has even occured.

One thread I spotted had already been shut down after two posts and when I read the moderators note on why, none of the rules had been broken. The thread was discussing an illegal activity in an general sense. This activity is a well known activity. This was the moderators response:

UPC care very much about this.

It's "Theft of service", criminal, a different league to Copyright Infringement which is civil.

People posting info about how to steal cable TV will be site banned.

That is a crime with up to €5,000 fine, up to six months jail and also civil action penalties. UPC just won €124,000 from an individual in Ireland helping people to steal Cable TV.

People posting info encouraging, excusing or condoning Cable TV Theft will be forum banned.

If the Garda supplies a warrant or UPC has a Court Order, then Boards & your ISP can co-operate to identify you. The Garda have in past eve arrested scammers using an Internet cafe. You are not anonymous.

No-one had breached any of these conditions...It was a mere discussion. The same as anyone talking about a car being stolen or a house being robbed. Can the moderators not concentrate on targeting whoever places a post that does breach the rules and not on the whole thread itself. There are plenty of "opinions" on the topic that would not be illegal.


Another area seems to be if anyone mentions a service in any sort of detail. Moderators seem to take this as automatically being an advertisement and close the thread. Yes you are against advertising but you are also limiting general users like myself from learning anything about these companies and their services. In the past this sort of thread begins with a description (which moderators now deem as advertising) followed by a few good comments on the company but always progresses to the bad experiences. And thus the general public don't get the full info on a company and what to look out for as a consumer anymore.

I have seen so many threads of late that would interest me that have been closed before even getting going. Could yous please concentrate on the individual posts and imposing heavier bans rather than assuming something and closing the whole thread.

These are just two areas that come to mind but there are plenty of others I could find with time.

Any feedback or opinions welcome on whether this can be seen to as I am finding, what is supposed to be an opinions forum, far too restricting on everyone and thus not doing what Boards.ie is suppose to be doing by providing all round info.

Dades

Links or it never happened.

Terry

It's illegal. The site does not condone illegal avtivity of any kind. It's as simple as that really.

Doctor DooM

Dude, boards is very public and they can't leave things up which could get them in legal trouble.

It's not personal, but boards mightn't be here if it isnt done.

pippip

1st argument:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055444619

This thread was closed the other day:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442079

Here is where the original poster of the thread above had to get it re-opened.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055441537


"It's illegal. The site does not condone illegal avtivity of any kind. It's as simple as that really."

By this logic a thread on car theft, shoplifting, government fraud shouldn't be shown. I'm pretty sure most of your legal section would disappear. They were discussing the topic NOT discussing how to do anything illegal. The poster was actually condeming the act!!! as the closed thread shows.

PS I really like the abrupt responses, apart from the last one.

Cuddlesworth

The problem you have here is the same as the computer forums get.

A discussion about a car theft etc is really not going to degenerate into a discussion about how to steal cars.

A discussion about music\video piracy, unscrambling pvr devices etc will always end up in a discussion about how to do the above.

The best option is to lock it. And I'm not even a mod. Plus there are plenty of forums out there which will host the discussions, no need to sully up this place.

mike65

/sully takes offense.

Steve

On your first example, see here how much previous crap there has been on the subject. That thread would eventually have gone the same way and it was a good decision to close it imo.

The other two threads are to do with advertising on the site, the mods / admins policy seems to be to carpet bomb them, unfortunately some honest threads get caught up in the crossfire but if you read the spammer thread on the top of this forum you will see the amount of people getting banned for trying to use the site as a free advertising platform for their wares.

pippip

Thats part of my point, these other website are purely how to do the illegal act. What I like about Boards.ie is that you could discuss the topic and stay away from all those people getting techincal.

I know some of these forums will descend into this sort of post but the moderators should just hit these posters hard and pretty soon they'll disappear. Just seems to be the easy option to lock it down which I don't agree with.

Beruthiel

pippip wrote: »

1st argument:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055444619

Discussion on an illegal activity.

This thread was closed the other day:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442079

Genuine mistake because the poster was new and that's normally the way advertisers and shills opperate on this site. 99.9% we get it right.

pippip

On Steves example, why not delete each entry that obviously breaks the rules and then ban the user, then the discussion can continue. People will get the message eventually. Leaving them there only encourages others and will definitely lead to the thread closing.

On the other post, I really don't accept "Discussion on illegal topic". As I mentioned car crime is an illegal topic. Scams are illegal, there are still plenty of threads discussing them!

Beruthiel

pippip
We have rules. We will not be changing them.
B

Ludo

This thread is discussing the discussion of illegal activities...lock it now!

Eoin

pippip wrote: »

On the other post, I really don't accept "Discussion on illegal topic". As I mentioned car crime is an illegal topic. Scams are illegal, there are still plenty of threads discussing them!

Yes, but are they not being discussed from the potential victim's point of view?

If someone said "what's the best way to scam someone out of money when they're selling a car", then I would imagine it would be locked.

Sully

mike65 wrote: »

/sully takes offense.

What?

AckwelFoley

The rule is rather clear and obvious imo. I dont see any reasonable arguement against it proposed yet. So classing it as 'premature modding' is unfair.

/brown nose mode end

Stark

Love the suggested links in the "similar threads" box

kaimera

Stark wrote: »

Love the suggested links in the "similar threads" box

I was wondering when the jokes would start..only reason I clicked into the thread.

I'm out of thanks but +1

pippip

eoin wrote: »

Yes, but are they not being discussed from the potential victim's point of view?

If someone said "what's the best way to scam someone out of money when they're selling a car", then I would imagine it would be locked.

I know what you mean but would the same thread be locked if the victim discussed how they were robbed??? Same info would be provided just in a different way.

The original poster in the 1st thread I showed you was a victim as most of us are.
Just seems the rules are being bent on certain topics and not on others before anything bad has happened. I understand if it gets completely out of hand that something as serious as a lockdown has to be done but some new threads aren't being given the chance to see which way they go.

mikedragon32

kaimera wrote: »

I'm out of thanks but +1

There's a thanks for you buddy...

copacetic

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The problem you have here is the same as the computer forums get.

A discussion about a car theft etc is really not going to degenerate into a discussion about how to steal cars.

A discussion about music\video piracy, unscrambling pvr devices etc will always end up in a discussion about how to do the above.

The best option is to lock it. And I'm not even a mod. Plus there are plenty of forums out there which will host the discussions, no need to sully up this place.

Originally Posted by mike65
/sully takes offense.

Sully wrote: »

What?

i loled

Hobart

Beruthiel wrote: »

Discussion on an illegal activity.

Huh?

Is the discussion of illegal activity banned?

Genuine mistake because the poster was new and that's normally the way advertisers and shills opperate on this site. 99.9% we get it right.

I agree. But I actually understand where the OP is coming from. His example(s) above are actually (to the new user) something that would put somebody off this site very quickly. i.e.

New User: whats your opinion on such and such
Poster: FO Shill
New User: FO Yourself. I just asked a Q...FFS
Mod: Thread locked, New User, poster x is a long time around here....blah blah blah

While the post may appear shillish, it's not. Yes it's the one that apparently slips through the "shillnet", but mods have a number of tools available to them to use, which obviously have not been used in this particular instance.

Sully

copacetic wrote: »

i loled

Ah. Well spotted.

DublinWriter

pippip wrote: »

Just seems the rules are being bent on certain topics and not on others before anything bad has happened. I understand if it gets completely out of hand that something as serious as a lockdown has to be done but some new threads aren't being given the chance to see which way they go.

In a way, I can see where you're coming from. As boards 'punter' such as yourself I'm not a mod and have no vested interests in Boards Ltd.

However, there are certain ill-informed and ill-educated elements of the print and broadcast media who would be too happy to sensationalise certain discussions if raised here and happily bring down Boards in order to sell more papers/get more listeners and then go on their merry way.

Like you, as a punter, I enjoy the services offer by Boards and I don't want to see them jeopardised in any way. In the grand scheme of things you'll have to trust me when I say that certain topics get locked here for very good reasons.

AckwelFoley

It boggles me why ppl have a problem with rules.
Its a privately run forum, they make the rules as they see as required. You are not forced to be a member.
Its a priveledge not a right to be a member

The guy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The problem you have here is the same as the computer forums get.

A discussion about a car theft etc is really not going to degenerate into a discussion about how to steal cars.

A discussion about music\video piracy, unscrambling pvr devices etc will always end up in a discussion about how to do the above.

The best option is to lock it. And I'm not even a mod. Plus there are plenty of forums out there which will host the discussions, no need to sully up this place.

However you can help someone in setting up a Bittorrent client as they themselves are not illegal whereas the majority of files hosted on BT networks are illegal.

Overheal

The guy wrote: »

However you can help someone in setting up a Bittorrent client as they themselves are not illegal whereas the majority of files hosted on BT networks are illegal.

The only thing I use bittorrent for is accessing materials made available on the public domain.

In truth bittorent is not an outlawed discussion because its a distribution platform that does see some legitimate uses. I understand blizzard distributes its patch releases for WoW through torrent trackers to keep load down off their servers.

As well I do seem to recall a discussion in the games forum which went on quite civilly about game piracy, without pertaining to any direct discussion on how to pirate games. At the same time, theres been a lot of discussion over the years on boards about the use and effects of illegal drugs, and again, those conversations in general end up continuing in moderately good civility, without any discussion about how to obtain or produce those substances.

As of yet I havent seen anything in this thread that would suggest anyone was discussing the ins and outs of hacking cable TV.

Ultimately though it does seem rather odd that posts excusing or condoning tv theft would get the user banned. posts excusing or condoning substance abuse and piracy seem to happen all the time without reproach. After all, those are crimes too. Shouldn't we just lock any thread discussing TV licenses then? After all, they almost always end up in discussions about not wanting to pay them, even though its mandatory.

I dont want to see boards hurt either but lets remember to negotiate the line between open-discussion and facilitating illegal activity - this situation was a case of the former.

Hobart

Overheal wrote: »

The only thing I use bittorrent for is accessing materials made available on the public domain.

In truth bittorent is not an outlawed discussion because its a distribution platform that does see some legitimate uses. I understand blizzard distributes its patch releases for WoW through torrent trackers to keep load down off their servers.

As well I do seem to recall a discussion in the games forum which went on quite civilly about game piracy, without pertaining to any direct discussion on how to pirate games. At the same time, theres been a lot of discussion over the years on boards about the use and effects of illegal drugs, and again, those conversations in general end up continuing in moderately good civility, without any discussion about how to obtain or produce those substances.

As of yet I havent seen anything in this thread that would suggest anyone was discussing the ins and outs of hacking cable TV.

Ultimately though it does seem rather odd that posts excusing or condoning tv theft would get the user banned. posts excusing or condoning substance abuse and piracy seem to happen all the time without reproach. After all, those are crimes too. Shouldn't we just lock any thread discussing TV licenses then? After all, they almost always end up in discussions about not wanting to pay them, even though its mandatory.

I dont want to see boards hurt either but lets remember to negotiate the line between open-discussion and facilitating illegal activity - this situation was a case of the former.

That's exactly my point. If we are in a situation where the discussion of "illegal activity" gets a thread locked and/or a user banned, it will make a mockery of certain topics. Can we no longer discuss court cases? Drug use? Murders? Theft?

Steve

Hobart wrote: »

That's exactly my point. If we are in a situation where the discussion of "illegal activity" gets a thread locked and/or a user banned, it will make a mockery of certain topics. Can we no longer discuss court cases? Drug use? Murders? Theft?

I think what's important here is that the particular activity in question is being watched closely by the company who is actively pursuing forums and isp's through legal channels. All it would take is a stupid poster to say "neah, I do this and F them!!, you can get **** from www.**** .con" etc.. and it could have the cops knocking on the door with a warrant.

I don't think this policy in any way curbs discussion on the social aspect of illegal activities in general. In any case, the forum in question is a tech forum and is not the place for such a discussion.

Hobart

SteveC wrote: »

I think what's important here is that the particular activity in question is being watched closely by the company who is actively pursuing forums and isp's through legal channels. All it would take is a stupid poster to say "neah, I do this and F them!!, you can get **** from www.**** .con" etc.. and it could have the cops knocking on the door with a warrant.

I don't think this policy in any way curbs discussion on the social aspect of illegal activities in general. In any case, the forum in question is a tech forum and is not the place for such a discussion.

There was no discussion of any illegal activity of any kind in the thread linked to. I think Overheals example wrt BT is a perfect example where something that is thought of and associated with illegal activity, is immediately hammered down upon, without merit.

Gordon

Hobart wrote: »

There was no discussion of any illegal activity of any kind in the thread linked to.

There was, there are a load of deleted posts.