Distance to eircom exchange - Arbour Hill to Crown Alley?

TM

I am having terrible trouble with my UTV broadband connection lately. As part of their investigations UTV say that an eircom report on the line says that I am 4.9km from the exchange. I am in Arbour Hill and as far as I know I am on the Crown Alley (Temple Bar) exchange (unless they moved me in recent years?!). Could that distance really be correct? For what it's worth (possible nothing!) an ambling walking route on Gmaps Pedometer gives about 3km but maybe eircom's wiring takes more detours?

DMC

Its very possible that you are on the Crown Alley exchange.

I remember a chap in Castleknock village had woegious trouble getting broadband. All around the area, lines passed, his didn't. It was down to the fact that the phone line was in the building since the 1930's, and wired to Crown Alley! 7km as the crow flies, not to mention the detours the wiring might take!

Smart Telecom's website will tell you in a flash what exchange you are on.

Solair

Arbour Hill is all on Crown Alley, if the phone number starts with 671 or 670 it's there.

TM

Thanks. The number is indeed (01) 671 .... and Smart confirm that it's on Crown Alley. The house/estate is relatively new (mid 90s) in case that matters. 5km sounds a bit excessive unless the eircom wiring goes all over the place.

My problem with UTV is that while my 2Mbps (automatically upgraded to 3Mbps at some stage in the past year (?)) connection was working pretty OK from 2005 to the start/mid of 2008 I suddenly started getting regular sporadic DSL disconnect/reconnect cycles and DSL sync speeds of less than 3Mbps in the last few months.

I then asked about the "up to" 7.6Mbps package and they said that I could opt for it but only get 4Mbps max. So I did opt for it but it never sync'd at more than 3Mbps. UTV keep blaming eircom and eircom say that there is no problem. UTV then told me that I had never been switched to 4Mbps and they did this "manually" (!??). Then they decided to switch me to 1Mbps to see if it helped (!?!??!?!) and I had no connection at all for a day.

The line attenuation is pretty high (c. 50dB) and the SNR margin is pretty low (often lower than 10dB) on 3Mbps/4Mbps which I presume is not great?

I have a pain in my hole with it at this stage, UTV's messing around and their continual blaming of eircom for the situation. Even if this is true I don't care as my contract is with UTV and the onus is surely on them to sort it out!

They did agree to credit me some of the subscription fees paid for 4Mbps while I was still only getting 3Mbps.

Anybody got any suggestions for an alternative landline or other provider in my area? Would Smart (if available) be any better? Do they have their own equipment in the exchanges and, if so, would that make a difference? Ntl/UPC cable is not an option still as far as I know. I don't want Irish Broadband Breeze and RipWave probably won't cut it for my needs.

Solair

What you have to remember though is that these networks were not designed to carry data. They were simply designed to carry voice and they were planned decades before DSL was even an idea in some scientist head.

They're not optimised to carry DSL, so there can be cases where cable routing might not be ideal.

It's quite possible that the wiring may follow some weird route back to Crown Alley depending on what ducting is available. Much of the city centre ducts in Dublin and Cork were originally old tram power ducts! Wiring was never really radically rebuilt from scratch, rather new wires were inserted into old ducts. This is true of any old urban area anywhere in the world.

As a result it's possible that your route to Crown Alley could be something strange like via Collins Barracks and over to Heuston Station or something even weirder. It all depends on how exactly your line is routed.

Often the wiring may enter the ducting system at a point which may have been an old telephone exchange in the 1930s etc. i.e. it might go to a defunct telephone exchange building which may be in the opposite direction to the actual switch that's handling the line. Then run back into the modern exchange. This doesn't mean that old equipment is in use, but rather that the old duct network still follows a pattern which reflects a previous era of the telephone system and not the location of the current digital exchanges. Unfortunately, radically redesigning the routes taken by the wiring system would have been such a disruptive task that it was never done. Some of these switches handle tens of thousands of physical copper lines.

It was never a concern until the advent of DSL as the routes were perfectly acceptable for carrying good quality voice and ISDN traffic.

ADSL2+ might help the situation a lot though, whenever eircom get their finger out and make it properly available. In the meantime have you considered going with Smart Telecom? Their system often copes with longer lines much more effectively than eircom's.

It's not a simple matter of calculating the distance as the crow flies unfortunately. Particularly, in old areas of Cork and Dublin in particular.
Newer build areas are a little more logically wired.

TM

Solair wrote: »

ADSL2+ might help the situation a lot though, whenever eircom get their finger out and make it properly available. In the meantime have you considered going with Smart Telecom? Their system often copes with longer lines much more effectively than eircom's.

Yeah - I am looking my options now and Smart might be one. But I believe that I'd have to cancel (my phone and BB services) with UTV and switch back to eircom temporarily before transferring to Smart and that's a lot of hassle and there's a high risk of something going wrong along the way (as I know from previous similar situations...).

It's not a simple matter of calculating the distance as the crow flies unfortunately. Particularly, in old areas of Cork and Dublin in particular.
Newer build areas are a little more logically wired.

Thanks - I had a suspicion that this was the case alright. But c. 2km on top of the "as the crow flies" distance of < 3km seems like a lot of cable meandering. Oh well....

Sponge Bob

Get a new line installed and INSIST you will not take one off Crown Alley, what numbers do your neighbours have apart from 01671 numbers ??

Crown alley begin 6 , sometimes 4 . Cabra begins 8 . Phibsboro 8 .

I know of people who had a line installed in the house behind ( different exchange different street) and ran an extension across the back garden . They paid for it on DD and told the neighbours to open the bills anytime so they knew nothing untowards was afoot .

TM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Get a new line installed and INSIST you will not take one off Crown Alley, what numbers do your neighbours have apart from 01671 numbers ??

The whole area is 01 671 .... as far as I know. Are you sure that you can just insist that you don't want to be on a particular exchange? I would not have thought so. And getting a new line installed sounds like it could involve a lot of cost/hassle? And since UTV tend to blame line issues on eircom and disclaim responsibility for them I can't see them helping to get a new line installed and since I am not a retail customer of eircom I can't see them doing anything either! Is there an exchange closer to Arbour Hill than Crown Alley? Where exactly are the Cabra and Phibsboro exchanges?

Sponge Bob

TM wrote: »

Where exactly are the Cab and Phibs exchanges?

No matter if there are no numbers beginnning 018nnnn in the area .

There are also 2 new exchanges near Heuston station , Heuston Square and St Johns Road . 01640 numbers on your side of the liffey

Solair

Get your line moved over to eircom and see what can be done. I googled around a bit and it seems there are some 847xxxx numbers around there too, it's possible they're just some business with an old number diverting to Arbour hill though given that these are on Belcamp!! Over 11km away!

Crown Alley serves that area because it's very much part of the old city centre that would have had telephone service way back in the earliest days of dial service in Ireland in the 1930s.

However, it's not THAT far away.

It's 2.1km : See google map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=arbour+hill,+dublin+7&daddr=Crown+Alley&hl=en&geocode=%3BCWwJleHozEVEFfT8LQMdC3Kg_yHX_fYun054gQ&mra=pe&mrcr=0&dirflg=w&sll=53.346508,-6.273887&sspn=0.029821,0.052958&ie=UTF8&ll=53.347221,-6.2677&spn=0.02982,0.052958&z=14

It's possible that UTV are calculating the distance based on the resistance on the line, not the actual distance. It could simply be a dodgy line, get eircom to switch you onto an alternative pair and see if it improves things.

Tell eircom you'll consider switching back to them IF they resolve your line issues!

TM

Solair wrote: »

However, it's not THAT far away.

It's 2.1km : See google map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=arbour+hill,+dublin+7&daddr=Crown+Alley&hl=en&geocode=%3BCWwJleHozEVEFfT8LQMdC3Kg_yHX_fYun054gQ&mra=pe&mrcr=0&dirflg=w&sll=53.346508,-6.273887&sspn=0.029821,0.052958&ie=UTF8&ll=53.347221,-6.2677&spn=0.02982,0.052958&z=14

Yeah - I know.

It's possible that UTV are calculating the distance based on the resistance on the line, not the actual distance.

It's eircom who are telling UTV that it's almost 5km from home to exchange.

It could simply be a dodgy line, get eircom to switch you onto an alternative pair and see if it improves things.

Tell eircom you'll consider switching back to them IF they resolve your line issues!

Interesting suggestion!

TM

Actually I just noticed that DSL Model Tool also estimates the line length as between 4 and 6 km presumably based on some sort of analysis of the line quality.

Sponge Bob

Have you complained to eircom complaints ????

TM

No. My contract is with UTV so they should sort things out. And my past experience of trying to deal with eircom on complaints suggests that it's pointless anyway. Anyway - eircom just say the line is fine. Last time somebody from eircom called to tell me that I asked what broadband speed I should expect and he literally said "oh - I don't know anything about the internet or that stuff"!

dub45

Always remember the UTV mantra 'blame Eircom'. That's not to excuse Eircom of course but it just seems a reflex with UTV - they apparently say it without even thinking. They once blamed Eircom for a billing problem I was having with them!

By the way I am in Kilmainham and on the Crown Alley exchange (with Smart) so Crown Alley must have a huge no. of lines attached?