French Foriegn Legion and all that!

Local-womanizer

Alot of debate has raged on these forums in the last month or so about Irishmen joining the British Armed forces.The problem for me though is that a lot of Irishmen join the French Foreign Legion and nothing is made of this,either for or against the idea.I wonder if the people who see a problem with the Irish joining the British Armed Forces would also object against those joining the legion.I myself have got no problem at all who joins what.What I am getting at,is there really a big difference between Irish men joining the Brits or the French?And if so why?Political reasons,history etc.

Rowley Birkin QC

Well for me the main difference would be that the French have never been an occupying force in this country, quite the opposite in fact.

pablomakaveli

The reason Irish men joining the british army is controversial is because of historical reasons. There isn't any historical reason for people to have a problem with irish men joining the french foreign legion. Also there is rarely any mention in the media about irish men who join the foreign legion.

Rowley Birkin QC

From my knowledge of the Legion seems like an escape for men who feel they have no other option, new name and a French passport at the end of your tour.

Joining the British army and wearing the flag on your arm is something that personally I could never do, mostly for historical reasons and that I would probably be excommunicated from my family by my granny.:o

return guide

We could also add the US armed forces.

As times get tough our young will look at all options and who will blame them, the Defence Forces will be a even more limited option in the current climate.

iceage

As for the US link we have Manic Moran, the BA/TA theres loads of us, the Legion...........nope, not one.......but they speak French Takes cover!

Local-womanizer

I wouldent have a problem with joining the BA if I couldent get into the PDF due to cutbacks etc.Some people have this notion that the brits are evil,all the history and that obviously influences there veiw on them.That was the past,people change,that war is over.I would rather have a secure job that put food on the table over sitting in a cold house letting my family starve because of my political motivations tbh.I just hate it when people are narrow minded when it comes to such things.

Local-womanizer

bigkev49 wrote: »

From my knowledge of the Legion seems like an escape for men who feel they have no other option, new name and a French passport at the end of your tour.

Joining the British army and wearing the flag on your arm is something that personally I could never do, mostly for historical reasons and that I would probably be excommunicated from my family by my granny.:o

You can keep your name in the legion if you want.As for the flag,it wouldent mean much if you dident beleive in it.I would see being in the BA as a job.But I suppose every one has their opinions about the brits.

Was just venting a bit!:)

Zuiderzee

I dont have a problem with people joining the forces in the UK, France, US or elsewhere - it is their choice.
Just in case anyone has any doubts from earlier postings, I am not anti British.
For that matter people that I have known who were reared in Ireland but were obliged to do military service in Germany, Italy and the Netherlands.

However, I do have a problem when people in the service of any other nation are described as Irish soldiers, airmen, marines etc.

If you are in the PDF/RDF -you are an Irish Soldier/Sailor etc
If you are in UK forces, you are a British /Sailor etc
If you are in US forces, you are a US Soldier/Sailor etc
If you are in the L.E, you are a French Legionaire,
LE motto is Legio Patria Nostra - The Legion is our Homeland

neilled

bigkev49 wrote: »

Well for me the main difference would be that the French have never been an occupying force in this country, quite the opposite in fact.

Whether the forces of Revolutionary France would have been any more benevolent than the British had they managed to turf them out is highly doubtful.

Gunny Hartman

I think people need to drop the pseudo patriotism all this craic about being against people who join foreign armed forces. So what if the British occupied Ireland, it's all in the past we need to let it go. If the young men and woman of Ireland want to be soldiers and are not offered the chance to do so in The Irish Defence Forces and they go abroad whether it is to the British Army, The US Armed Forces or even the Legion. I say fair play to them they have it a hell of a lot harder than anyone of us who do get into the Irish Defence Forces for a number of reasons.

Firstly, in my opinion there is no greater honour than that of the privilege to serve ones homeland and they do not get a chance to realise that for what ever reason.

Secondly, They are away from home serving in a foreign force this has to be hard on them and if they survive the change from civilian to soldier on a foreign soil again... fair play to them. No easy task.

Thirdly and lastly. I don't care what anyone says there will always be a touch of racism when you are abroad serving in another countries forces. I have friends in other armies around the world and all of them have experienced racism on level or another during training. As they say it is just something you have to put up with if you want to make a career out of it.

So to close up if you are not prepared to serve in another force shut up and just don't do it. No one is making you.

GH

Fratton Fred

neilled wrote: »

Whether the forces of Revolutionary France would have been any more benevolent than the British had they managed to turf them out is highly doubtful.

That's a good point. The French commited as many if not more attrocitites than the British, so is it a case that "They didn't do it to us, so we don't care"?

t0mm

Personally I know two lads who have joined the BA as Officer Cadets , purely because they didn't get into the Irish. From what they have been telling me, there are more than a few Irish BA Officers who have wanted to be a soldier all their life, and would have much prefered to join the Irish Defence Forces, but due to the sheer demand for places verses places available, have instead gone over to Britain. Almost all, or so I am told, will concentrate on the "Irish" Regiments, eg Irish Guards, Queen's Royal Hussars (Queen's Own and Royal Irish), etc, which goes to show they do to an extent show their patriotism even after being forces to travel abroad to fulfil their lifes dream.

me-skywalker

well if u consider the history of the irish in the french foreign legion and its roots you will know that the irish that originally join the legion back in hte 1800's was to fight against the british not so much to help the french conquer other lands..... so there wouldnt really be as much problem with fighting against the aul enemy rather than with it!

merrionsq

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's a good point. The French commited as many if not more attrocitites than the British, so is it a case that "They didn't do it to us, so we don't care"?

Yeh, not many people were happy to be liberated by Napoleon. The Spanish are a very good example.
The "what's an Irish soldier" is so tedious at this stage.

me-skywalker

Napoleons 'liberation' well a self obssed conquest just as much the nazi regime backed up by delirious claims of power and a great cause.

Shutuplaura

neilled wrote: »

Whether the forces of Revolutionary France would have been any more benevolent than the British had they managed to turf them out is highly doubtful.

Possibly but looking at how the French Napoleonic and revolutionary forces acted when they occupied other parts of Europe gives me the impression that they were quite likely to have been quite fair. Many of the legal codes used in Europe today are based on the Code Napoeon. The Revolutionary French established several republics in Europe that were in some way popular with their citizens, eg the Batavian Republic. The British for instance invaded in the Batavian Republic in 1799 expecting to be welcomed by the local population and hoped the army would get onside. This didn't happen and the expedition was widely seen as a disaster.

These states were puppets of France but at the time ireladn was a puppet of Britain. These new repulics brought a great deal of popular social reform that was retained after the french left, given Irelands social problems at the time (eg lack of rights for catholics) this could only have been a good thing. 45 years later Ireland endured a devistating famine made much worse by problems in society that the British were reluctant to do anything about. I think that we probably would have fared much better (at least not much worse) had the 1798 French landings been successful.

Anyway, thats the history lesson over. Regards the original question, its controversial because of the past relationship between the two countries. Sure its in the past and all but thats the simple fact of life. The Foreign Legion have never deployed in the North, the B.A. have, and you don't have to be a provo (god knows I'm not by any streach) to dislike their presence there.

Shutuplaura

me-skywalker wrote: »

Napoleons 'liberation' well a self obssed conquest just as much the nazi regime backed up by delirious claims of power and a great cause.

Nonsense. Besides the fact there was nothing like a persecution of the jews under Napoleon, it is remarkable the lengths he went to to try and avoid war. He finished them, and seldom stated them. Not a saint by any means but no Hitler.

And the liberators europe supposedly looked to to free themselves from his tyranny were busy for much of his rule invading states on the indian sub continent. Was that 'nazi self obsessed conquest'?

booom

i'm going to go out on a limb here; maybe some lads join the BA or Legion cos they're pretty sure they're going to be doing more than guarding cash in transits. I know, i know, elements of the Irish defence forces have been involved in some (and still are) theaters, and aquitted themselves well, but if you look at the law of averages- either of the two mentioned outfits would pretty much guarantee you got to do some soldiering quicker than in the Irish d.f.