If you could change the LC or course content what...

Davidius

When's the new maths course going to be examined anyway?

LivingDeadGirl

I think the present fourth years will be the first to sit it.

PurpleFistMixer

Have they already decided it's coming in for definite? What I'd heard suggested that it wasn't certain. (Or so people hoped anyway.)

LivingDeadGirl

No idea tbh! My teacher was just talking abotu it for a few seconds

Fad

LivingDeadGirl wrote: »

I think the present fourth years will be the first to sit it.

My teacher has been saying the present 2nd years will be taking the new Irish course since I was in TY.....................These things never seem to come when theyre actually expected.

Fad

geurrp the yard wrote: »

I was thinking along the same lines. I think alot of people that are doing maths for the leaving cert dont auctually know what they doing when solving a problem. I dont see the benefit of memorising formula after formula or rote learning a proof, weres the learning involved? I think there should be a more emphasis on especially in the areas of maths to its applications rather than its memorised way of thinking. Maybe if ICT was introduced to certain subjects,it would combat this problem.

Another thing that I found in some subjects when i did my leaving was that i struggled for time finishing the paper. That may well be down to poor time management but whats the harm of increasing the exam time an extra 10 minutes?

Theres a teensy bit of ICT on the JC Business course, it mentions floppy discs..............I dont even have a floppy drive anymore!!

ICT at Alevel is meant to be a horribly tedious course, and know the Irish system it'd be arseways until it gets revised 3 or 4 times.

MathsManiac

Davidius wrote: »

When's the new maths course going to be examined anyway?

Read all about it here:
http://www.ncca.ie/index.asp?locID=343&docID=289

It includes the new syllabus strands and the schedule for introduction.
Looks like fifth years in the pilot schools are doing the first two strands of the new course for their LC in 2010.

K4t

Orry Maths and Ordinary Irish should MOST DEFINITELY NOT be compulsory for the Leaving cert. It's a disgrace and a huge disadvantage to those weak at or have no interest in numerical subjects (Re:Maths) and who know that when a subject is dead, it's dead (Re:Irish).

People doing Ordinary Irish for the LC either (a) hate Irish and despise everything about the language, mostly due to the way they have been thought it for 6 years, (b) are just not able for higher level because they didn't put in the work or are poor at languages etc. etc. (c) feel the work needed is not worth it for the course they are aiming for.

Irish is a dead language and the only people is the Department of Education for the last 70 odd years.

Making students do Ordinary Level Maths at LC is a disgrace in my opinion. The course is basically the JC HL course Revised with a few add-ons which 99% of students could care less about.

The reason we are doing Ordianry Level is because we hate maths, can't do higher or just don't ****ing need it and know that we'll not ****ing need it when we are living our day to day lives.

Why can't I be doing another language instead of Maths (which I already know from JC and will probably never need in later life)?


The LC in general? I go to a Catholic Brothers' School unfortunately and we are told all of those 'true' stories about girls and boys who went crazy from smoking cannabis for a minute blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Basically, I think Religion should be kept out of school and philosophy thought instead.
We might not have fools like David Quinn writing in our newspapers and spreading his bull **** propaganda either.

And people who think they deserve 'bonus points' for any subjects, maths, irish, doing a subject through chinees mandarin or Irish, can f**k off and get real. It's a joke. Just because you're brought up in a Ghaeltacht area and speak Irish all your life, or your parents sent you to a private school or 'good' school that emphasises teaching through Irish (which are few and far between), doesn't mean you should have an advantage over inner city schoolchildren or the majority of the student population. The whole idea of the LC was that it was meant to treat every student equal, no matter where you hail from.

K4t

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

And in general? I'd STOP DUMBING THE COURSES DOWN. If people are failing maths in their droves, I'd bloody well make the teaching, particularly the standard at primary level, better. Making the LC easier is just going to pass the problem on to people failing at 3rd level. Maths should only be fundamentally difficult for people with numeracy-related learning difficulties. Everyone should be comfortable with manipulation of equations by LC at LEAST.

I personally was always in the top 5 in a class of 30 at maths right through primary school. I obtained a B in the JC at higher level. I did HL LC maths up until February of 5th year and was completely lost but more importantly, had absolutely 100% no interest in what the teacher was writing on the board everyday,

Sure, I could have got grinds once a week, spent three hours at maths on weekends, devoted part of my life to that one subject. But would it be worth it? Not a chance in hell. And I am just speaking for thousands of fellow ordinary level maths pupils all across Ireland.

So don't give me that crap about it being taught better because I could have Albert Einstein standing in front of me and I'd still be falling asleep at the sight of x,,y, sin Log.............

I'm much happier studying my history and English which I feel is just as important as HL Maths (and which many of my HL maths friends often bemoan from JC memories).

I have an adequate knowledge of maths from my B at HL JC and I am quite sure that will suffice in later life, as it has thousands before me.

ironictoaster

Amen brother, no subject should be compulsory. I wish I could drop maths and irish, I could easily maximize my points.

Fad

K4t wrote: »

Orry Maths and Ordinary Irish should MOST DEFINITELY NOT be compulsory for the Leaving cert. It's a disgrace and a huge disadvantage to those weak at or have no interest in numerical subjects (Re:Maths) and who know that when a subject is dead, it's dead (Re:Irish).

People doing Ordinary Irish for the LC either (a) hate Irish and despise everything about the language, mostly due to the way they have been thought it for 6 years, (b) are just not able for higher level because they didn't put in the work or are poor at languages etc. etc. (c) feel the work needed is not worth it for the course they are aiming for.

Irish is a dead language and the only people is the Department of Education for the last 70 odd years.

Making students do Ordinary Level Maths at LC is a disgrace in my opinion. The course is basically the JC HL course Revised with a few add-ons which 99% of students could care less about.

The reason we are doing Ordianry Level is because we hate maths, can't do higher or just don't ****ing need it and know that we'll not ****ing need it when we are living our day to day lives.

Why can't I be doing another language instead of Maths (which I already know from JC and will probably never need in later life)?


The LC in general? I go to a Catholic Brothers' School unfortunately and we are told all of those 'true' stories about girls and boys who went crazy from smoking cannabis for a minute blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Basically, I think Religion should be kept out of school and philosophy thought instead.
We might not have fools like David Quinn writing in our newspapers and spreading his bull **** propaganda either.

Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......

We're only doing OL because we hate it/cant do it/need it? Nah I quite like Maths, think I'd be well able for it (HL), but just would rather not allow it to impinge upon my other subjects , so instead I took religion.

You do know that a pretty huge proportion of philosophy stems from religion, I do religion (and am an Athiest), and I think its a fantastic subject, its easy enough, it touches on things that I'd never know about...

Keeping X out of the newspapers? Thats Censorship, not something you wanna encourage.

ironictoaster

Fad wrote: »

Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......

You shouldn't have to learn it if you don't want to. I have no problems doing Irish however, If had the chance to change for something else, I do it in a heartbeat.

I'd agree with most of what K4t said anyway. I absolutely hate doing Irish, wish I could drop it. And because I've never given it time, it probably has a chance of ruining my chances of going to college. Even though I want to do Maths in college, and even if I got 600 points, I still couldn't get into the course without a silly OD3 in a language that I just can't understand nor want to do. Thats just ridiculous, in my opinion.

As regards maths, I suppose a good option would be to make JC HL a tiny bit harder, and let that count as your LC OL pass. That way, people who hate maths/don't need it wouldn't have to spend time with it during LC, and they would have already gained the relevent knowledge from doing it for the JC.

PurpleFistMixer

K4t wrote: »

I personally was always in the top 5 in a class of 30 at maths right through primary school. I obtained a B in the JC at higher level. I did HL LC maths up until February of 5th year and was completely lost but more importantly, had absolutely 100% no interest in what the teacher was writing on the board everyday,

Sure, I could have got grinds once a week, spent three hours at maths on weekends, devoted part of my life to that one subject. But would it be worth it? Not a chance in hell. And I am just speaking for thousands of fellow ordinary level maths pupils all across Ireland.

So don't give me that crap about it being taught better because I could have Albert Einstein standing in front of me and I'd still be falling asleep at the sight of x,,y, sin Log.............

I'm much happier studying my history and English which I feel is just as important as HL Maths (and which many of my HL maths friends often bemoan from JC memories).

I have an adequate knowledge of maths from my B at HL JC and I am quite sure that will suffice in later life, as it has thousands before me.

I think you missed my point somewhat. The standard of teaching (and examination) at lower levels should be increased, as you have clearly demonstrated, there's too large a jump between JC and LC. So if you were getting 100% throughout the years of lower education, you should do similarly well at higher levels, and not suddenly start failing.

K4t

Fad wrote: »

Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......However, at the expense of receiving a higher standard of education is a disgrace. It should never have been made a compulsory exam subject in the first place. End of.

We're only doing OL because we hate it/cant do it/need it? Nah I quite like Maths, think I'd be well able for it (HL), but just would rather not allow it to impinge upon my other subjects , so instead I took religion.
Which is why OL being compulsory makes no sense. You should be able to do your Religion without having to do OL maths.
You do know that a pretty huge proportion of philosophy stems from religion, I do religion (and am an Athiest), and I think its a fantastic subject, its easy enough, it touches on things that I'd never know about...However, I think you'll find that around 90% of children living in Ireland are Catholic! Surely we should be educated in philosophy (which you quite rightly point out links back to religion) and then be allowed to make educated decisions about what religion, if any, we want to follow?

Keeping X out of the newspapers? Thats Censorship, not something you wanna encourage. The reason I mentioned that journalist is because he believes "secularism" is the reason for the problems in society in Ireland today and that "atheists" are not as charitable as religious people. But you're right, we don't want censorship like that which was advocated by the Catholic Church itself not so long ago Of course we don't want censorship now though you're right.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I'd agree with most of what K4t said anyway. I absolutely hate doing Irish, wish I could drop it. And because I've never given it time, it probably has a chance of ruining my chances of going to college. Even though I want to do Maths in college, and even if I got 600 points, I still couldn't get into the course without a silly OD3 in a language that I just can't understand nor want to do. Thats just ridiculous, in my opinion. You are damn right.

As regards maths, I suppose a good option would be to make JC HL a tiny bit harder, and let that count as your LC OL pass. That way, people who hate maths/don't need it wouldn't have to spend time with it during LC, and they would have already gained the relevent knowledge from doing it for the JC.

Good idea.
in bold.

K4t

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I think you missed my point somewhat. The standard of teaching (and examination) at lower levels should be increased, as you have clearly demonstrated, there's too large a jump between JC and LC. So if you were getting 100% throughout the years of lower education, you should do similarly well at higher levels, and not suddenly start failing.

Even if everybody could make the jump PFM, where would the good in it be? We would all be genius mathematicians. Is that what the Irish government wants, is that what the world needs? Of course not. We need our mathematicians and accountants but we also need our English and French teachers, our History and Art teachers.

JC has given students the basic understanding in maths. And that should be that. If some students wish to pursue their interests in that subject then let them. I'm not stopping anyone. But why make the student who has no interest in the subject and knows he/she will never need the subject in later life be made do the subject? It actually beggars belief.

The jump is indeed a big one and one which the majority of students cannot make, which in my opinion is fine. Let them study things they are interested in like languages, sciences, business subjects etc.

Cokehead Mother

I would make it compulsary to study Maths, English, a foreign language, a science and a humanity/social science. I'm all for forcing a broad education on people. I don't buy the suggestion that someone who studies physics at third level gains nothing from studying Chaucer at second level. Transferrable skills and whatnot.

The literature on the English course kind of sucks. I'd love for all Irish literature that's on the course because it's Irish literature to be removed. The benchmark for this can be "Do they study it outside of Ireland? If not, remove it from our course". Yeats etc. - yay! Boland etc. - no thank you. It'd also be nice if we had to study the language properly, like actually learn grammar and stuff. I lack initiative and really wish it was shoved down my throat in secondary school.

The Maths syllabus is basically fine the way it is. YOU HEAR THAT DOE? FINE THE WAY IT IS. Maybe some of the dryer topics stuff could afford to go. The main problem with LC maths is the way it's taught and the way it's learnt ie. purely with the aim of performing well in the exam. I don't think there's a whole lot the department can do about this tbh.

I don't really support Irish being compulsary, but so long as it is, learning to read pretty poetry in an exotic-ish language is lot more fun than being able to drone on about your life in a language spoken by so few. I say more poetry and less "Dia duit, a Shíle! Ar bhfaca tú an scannán Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of the Black Pearl?!" "Sea! Ó tá Johnny Depp dathiúl". If I ever have to listen to people called Síle and Ruarí talking about Hollywood movies ever again it will be to soon. Also it'd be nice if the exam had a section dedicated to grammar, because God knows it won't be taught if students don't need it to get the grade they want.

Physics and Chemistry have a lot of problems at LC level. The LC syllabi really do suck all the life out of the subjects.

French could perhaps do with a lot more essay writing. It seems odd that HL LC students are only expected to write 100 word compositions.

Fad

K4t wrote: »

However, at the expense of receiving a higher standard of education is a disgrace. It should never have been made a compulsory exam subject in the first place. End of.

Which is why OL being compulsory makes no sense. You should be able to do your Religion without having to do OL maths.

However, I think you'll find that around 90% of children living in Ireland are Catholic! Surely we should be educated in philosophy (which you quite rightly point out links back to religion) and then be allowed to make educated decisions about what religion, if any, we want to follow?


The reason I mentioned that journalist is because he believes "secularism" is the reason for the problems in society in Ireland today and that "atheists" are not as charitable as religious people. But you're right, we don't want censorship like that which was advocated by the Catholic Church itself not so long ago Of course we don't want censorship now though you're right.

What do you mean end of? I'm by no means political motivated by this, but its our constitutional first language, the DOE has EVERY right to make it compulsory. If you dont like that, get a D3 in OL if your an alright student that shouldn't be a huge problem.....

I'm quite content to do both, I wanna do Science after school, so I want a decent grounding in Maths, OL Maths isnt difficult but it does expand on HL JC stuff.

If 90% of children are Catholic then why consider bothering to try and change that, Children/Teens for the most part dont choose their religion, and if someone was seen to be trying to change that, all hell would break lose.

And as for Mr.Athiests Aren't Charitable, let him say it, doesnt bother me, gives me something to laugh at.

Fad

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

"Dia duit, a Shíle! Ar bhfaca tú an scannán Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of the Black Pearl?!" "Sea! Ó tá Johnny Depp dathiúl".

"Is maith liom George Michael, Michael Jackson agus The Artist Formally Known As Prince" -Best line in a Listening Comprehension ever! (They really dont age very well do they?)

PurpleFistMixer

K4t wrote: »

Even if everybody could make the jump PFM, where would the good in it be? We would all be genius mathematicians. Is that what the Irish government wants, is that what the world needs? Of course not. We need our mathematicians and accountants but we also need our English and French teachers, our History and Art teachers.

JC has given students the basic understanding in maths. And that should be that. If some students wish to pursue their interests in that subject then let them. I'm not stopping anyone. But why make the student who has no interest in the subject and knows he/she will never need the subject in later life be made do the subject? It actually beggars belief.

The jump is indeed a big one and one which the majority of students cannot make, which in my opinion is fine. Let them study things they are interested in like languages, sciences, business subjects etc.

Mathematical skill is useful not just for those who wish to become mathematicians. It teaches abstract thought and problem solving. Being good at maths is greatly beneficial to other things, not just the obvious numeracy related things, but music and art and even languages (ever find learning grammar is somehow based on patterns and formulae?). I know I'm biased here because I like/am good at maths, but I honestly think it's beneficial for everyone to study it.

You say that the JC gives "basic understanding". Very difficlut to define exactly what that is, isn't it? There are things in the JC which are abstract and not grounded in "Mary has 5 pounds and buys 2 apples". Should these be removed? Deciding what is the "basic level" of mathematics skills is subjective, and in my opinion, our "basic level" should be increased. I think this would benefit us all.

Also, you asked if the Irish government wants more mathematicians. Yes, they do. They're trying to get people to do science. Why don't people do science? "Maths is too hard, I hate maths, I can't do HL, I can't do science". If people in general were better at maths, this might be less of a problem. How to make people better at maths? Address problems with the education.

When I was in TY, I asked my physics teacher why is it that the left hand rule actually works, his reply was "as far as you're concerned, it's magic". Another question I asked in chemistry in TY about why atoms really bond together to form molecules resulted in the answer "don't bother asking questions like that, just learn what's in front of you and it'll get you your A". I think both of those responses epitomize what's wrong with leaving cert physics and chemistry, if not all subjects. I know now that even if the teachers had answered me, I wouldn't have understood the answers, but that's not the point.

In physics and chemistry, especially chemistry, all you learn is definitions and the names of things. You don't actually learn anything about the subject. That's where things have to change. I dispise doing chemistry for that reason, it's just a memory subject. Doing it doesn't teach me anything about chemistry, it teaches me the names of things that describe what really happens with real chemistry.

And when I think about it, I really think maths should be kept compulsary. What would letting it be an option subject result in? No engineers or scientists, because I'm sure 90% of people would drop it if they could.

There's a hell of a lot wrong with the LC, but I suppose complaining about it won't change much, might as well get on with it. Real learning can always be saved for the rest of your life.

p1akuw47h5r3it

geurrp the yard wrote: »

Fad wrote: »

I agree with most (if not all) of your post
As you say, with things like Maths, I'd love to actually know what I'm doing. Like differentiation at OL is insanely easy, but I have no idea what I'm doing, I know I'm supposedly measuring the rate of change of two variable or something, but how am I doing it, why isnt there any explanation. Had I knew that things would be adequately explained to me, I would have absolutely done HL. The HL course is meant to be insanely long though.
QUOTE]

I was thinking along the same lines. I think alot of people that are doing maths for the leaving cert dont auctually know what they doing when solving a problem. I dont see the benefit of memorising formula after formula or rote learning a proof, weres the learning involved? I think there should be a more emphasis on especially in the areas of maths to its applications rather than its memorised way of thinking. Maybe if ICT was introduced to certain subjects,it would combat this problem.

Another thing that I found in some subjects when i did my leaving was that i struggled for time finishing the paper. That may well be down to poor time management but whats the harm of increasing the exam time an extra 10 minutes?

Someone mentioned a oral english exam, I think thats a great idea. Nice and practical! Communication skills are very important in most aspects of every day life and way more beneficial than quoting something out of macbeth in a language(olde english) that no one speaks.

I think they've increased the time this year for a few subjects...

But what your saying about time management. Do you not think maybe there shouldn't be a time limit? I know it may seem a bit crazy but I know a lot of pretty smart people who, in tests, know so much and want to write it down that they don't finish a q they know really weel. This prob. happens in the actual LC to a few ppl.

So maybe there should be a time limit of 4 hrs for a ppr that prob. should only take 3hr 30 (inc. reading q's etc.). This would help those sort of ppl out. And if u finish b4 the 4th hr, u can jus leave.

Just a thought?!:cool:

p1akuw47h5r3it

Reason for keeping Irish=Preservation, its becoming increasingly relevant......However, at the expense of receiving a higher standard of education is a disgrace. It should never have been made a compulsory exam subject in the first place. End of.

We're only doing OL because we hate it/cant do it/need it? Nah I quite like Maths, think I'd be well able for it (HL), but just would rather not allow it to impinge upon my other subjects , so instead I took religion.
Which is why OL being compulsory makes no sense. You should be able to do your Religion without having to do OL maths.
You do know that a pretty huge proportion of philosophy stems from religion, I do religion (and am an Athiest), and I think its a fantastic subject, its easy enough, it touches on things that I'd never know about...However, I think you'll find that around 90% of children living in Ireland are Catholic! Surely we should be educated in philosophy (which you quite rightly point out links back to religion) and then be allowed to make educated decisions about what religion, if any, we want to follow?

Keeping X out of the newspapers? Thats Censorship, not something you wanna encourage. The reason I mentioned that journalist is because he believes "secularism" is the reason for the problems in society in Ireland today and that "atheists" are not as charitable as religious people. But you're right, we don't want censorship like that which was advocated by the Catholic Church itself not so long ago Of course we don't want censorship now though you're right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -JammyDodger-
I'd agree with most of what K4t said anyway. I absolutely hate doing Irish, wish I could drop it. And because I've never given it time, it probably has a chance of ruining my chances of going to college. Even though I want to do Maths in college, and even if I got 600 points, I still couldn't get into the course without a silly OD3 in a language that I just can't understand nor want to do. Thats just ridiculous, in my opinion. You are damn right.

As regards maths, I suppose a good option would be to make JC HL a tiny bit harder, and let that count as your LC OL pass. That way, people who hate maths/don't need it wouldn't have to spend time with it during LC, and they would have already gained the relevent knowledge from doing it for the JC.


So do you think the LC should be scrapped in favour of something like the A-levels or just a more flexible LC where all courses are optional??

pisslips

A computer science project for higher level maths.
It might help students connect the use of maths as a logical language while also providing a real life application and introducing them to a subjet all potential scientists should have some knowledge of.And which the economy is crying out for.
A nice way to introduce some C/A to the course.

Also it's too broad and the student is rewarded for learning a lot but not at any depth and basically being sharp at hacking problems but not really thinking about them.
It doesn't need statistics imo.

If you really wanted to be adventurous you could make it worth 200 points and add some of the applied maths course to it which in itself isn't substantial enough to be worth a subject in its own right.

SarcasticFairy

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I'd definitely try and increase the emphasis on understanding in subjects like maths, physics and chemistry etc. It's funny, ask people in an honours maths class about topics such as vectors or calculus, and most of them just assume they're made up for school; they don't understand that they actually have real applications (Maybe that's just indicative of the kind of people who do honours maths in my school, but I assume is like that in most places).

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

When I was in TY, I asked my physics teacher why is it that the left hand rule actually works, his reply was "as far as you're concerned, it's magic". Another question I asked in chemistry in TY about why atoms really bond together to form molecules resulted in the answer "don't bother asking questions like that, just learn what's in front of you and it'll get you your A". I think both of those responses epitomize what's wrong with leaving cert physics and chemistry, if not all subjects. I know now that even if the teachers had answered me, I wouldn't have understood the answers, but that's not the point.

I haven't a clue what half the maths course is about. You just take whatever formula/method and do the question. Thems is the rules.

When we started differentiation, we asked our teacher numerous times what it was we were actually doing. She told us she would tell us when we were finished. Wtf?! Surely it is more use to us now, so we can understand what this nonsensical crap actually means? She never told us. I think she mentioned something about bridges/rocket ships later on...

As far as teachers are concerned, you come in, you prepare for an exam and you leave. So I would definitely agree with the actual teaching of the subject not the exam. As a person who needs to know the WHY for everything, I think I would struggle a lot less with HL maths if I was just told what exactly I was doing, rather than just doing it for the sake of it.

shivkk06

I would have two maths classes plain and simple for most people, but algebra for the people who might need it in later life.

Same with english one grammer and poetry etc for those who want to know it.

but still have irish, english maths and maybe another few languages as madatory subjects

give credits or something to people who do the advanced stuff to add to their points if needed for a course

JSK 252

Myth wrote: »

Get rid of the bonus points for doing subjects through Irish.

There is hardly any marks going for answering through Irish. You get an extra 10% if you score less than 75% in an exam and the bonus mark is reduced significantly after 75% in accordance with your final mark.

JSK 252

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I'd definitely try and increase the emphasis on understanding in subjects like maths, physics and chemistry etc. It's funny, ask people in an honours maths class about topics such as vectors or calculus, and most of them just assume they're made up for school; they don't understand that they actually have real applications (Maybe that's just indicative of the kind of people who do honours maths in my school, but I assume is like that in most places).

I think it was PurpleFistMixer who already said about learning; I'd try and get people to learn for the sake of learning; not just because we need to for exams.

As has been said numerous times, I'd stop dumbing down subjects. It's ridiculous; subjects like physics and chemistry, and to a lesser extent honours maths, are so simple it's retarded; people wishing to do science or maths in college have a huge shock before them (Not that I do science or maths in college yet, but I happen to know what some of it is like).

And I'd agree with dividing English into two subjects: Literature and Language.

That's about it I think.

I completely disagree that science and maths are being dumbed down. The new syllabi are every bit as difficult as the old syllabi imo.

JSK 252

creggy wrote: »

Have an English oral exam

This is a fantastic idea in my opinion. They have this in France for the baccalaureat for their own native langauge, french. When I was over in france in TY for french exchange, the guy I was staying with had that week I was over there a french oral exam as part of the bac in which he had to discuss a special topic which he had prepared already. He did it on hydroelectric power.

I believe that this is one area that the english course is lacking. Oral proficiency. If you can express yourself in writting but not orally then your ****ed in the job world!

MathsManiac

K4t wrote: »

Orry Maths and Ordinary Irish should MOST DEFINITELY NOT be compulsory for the Leaving cert.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

And when I think about it, I really think maths should be kept compulsary. What would letting it be an option subject result in? No engineers or scientists, because I'm sure 90% of people would drop it if they could.

I think that it is worth pointing out that maths is NOT a compulsory subject for leaving certificate.

Many schools choose to make it part of their core provision. Many universities require it for entry to many of their courses.

So, k4t, if you're certain you want to proceed to a course in university that doesn't require maths, you can happily drop it and do another language instead. The Dept. would have no objection - your issue is with your school, not with the government.