Chinese come out to play

the_syco

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/general/14559761/?view=Standard

China will send two destroyers and a supply vessel to the seas off Somalia to back international efforts to fight piracy, the official Xinhua news agency quoted the defence ministry as saying today.

This will be interesting. Wasn't sure to put it here or in the Military section, as although it's Chinese military might, it's also a change in Chinese policy. They used to say at home, but this will be one of the first operating away from home.

dlofnep

I hope justice is done. These pirates are really taking the mick. I welcome any fair and just action taken against them.

sink

What I think is even more interesting is that Iran is sending Naval vessels to the area.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7793603.stm

Iran, China, Russia, the EU and US all conducting security operations in the same patch of water. Who would've thunk it? I guess international trade does trump political squabbles these days.

Húrin

The problems on the seas around Somalia will never be solved until the dire situation on the land of Somalia is resolved. These people are not resorting to piracy because they're especially evil. They are doing it because this is the kind of thing that desparate people do.

mumhaabu

Húrin wrote: »

The problems on the seas around Somalia will never be solved until the dire situation on the land of Somalia is resolved. These people are not resorting to piracy because they're especially evil. They are doing it because this is the kind of thing that desparate people do.

Lol!,

I think the nations of the world should make an example of Somalia and the Islamofacists that run it and blow them to atoms, I'd quite like to see it used as a testing ground for modern weapons. There is a large swathe of Africa that needs to be controlled and a swift war against Zimbabwe and the Kenyan dictators too would be no harm. Let's face it sub-saharan africa isn't capable of running itself and needs sino-western intervention to grow the economy and expolit the natural resources. Africa is eons behind Europe and needs outside intervention to modernise it and the effects for the western economies would be palpable.

Call it Colonialism or Imperialism all you want but it is the truth, but no one will admit due to the left wing propaganda that spouts from the true enemies of liberty.
Which would you rather a corrupt evil native regime or a peaceful modern and pro-democracy westernised government who enshrines democracy and human rights. Democracy must be enforced even if it takes force and internvention.

China is already making a scramble for Africa and Europe needs to tap this vital resource and help build it up instead of throwing aid at the situation and allowing their populations to baloon and then having those poor uneducated uncivilised people landing into the heart of Europe which is only a recipe for racial trouble.

This is the first move toward the Chinese scramble for Africa and wait and see China will control Africa within 20 years unless Europe makes the move to gain influence now. Africans can produce the goods that are getting costlier to Produce on the Chinese Mainland with massive reserves of raw materials and closer geographical links to feed the Pan American, European and Asian markets, with the African Union and other forces at play give it ten or twenty years and "Made in Africa" or "Made in the Congo" will be the norm as Africa will be transformed into a massive workshop with large tracts of land given over to food production to feed the gigantic chinese population many of whom will make Africa their new homes. This will go down in history as a red letter day when the Chinese stepped out to play in the world of international influence. Over 1million Chinese already live in Africa incidently.

AlekSmart

Gosh...You ARE brave mumhaabu.....Circle them wagons,I forsee a lynch mob a ridin this way.... :eek:

jonny72

mumhaabu wrote: »

Lol!,

I think the nations of the world should make an example of Somalia and the Islamofacists that run it and blow them to atoms, I'd quite like to see it used as a testing ground for modern weapons. There is a large swathe of Africa that needs to be controlled and a swift war against Zimbabwe and the Kenyan dictators too would be no harm. Let's face it sub-saharan africa isn't capable of running itself and needs sino-western intervention to grow the economy and expolit the natural resources. Africa is eons behind Europe and needs outside intervention to modernise it and the effects for the western economies would be palpable.

Call it Colonialism or Imperialism all you want but it is the truth, but no one will admit due to the left wing propaganda that spouts from the true enemies of liberty.
Which would you rather a corrupt evil native regime or a peaceful modern and pro-democracy westernised government who enshrines democracy and human rights. Democracy must be enforced even if it takes force and internvention.

China is already making a scramble for Africa and Europe needs to tap this vital resource and help build it up instead of throwing aid at the situation and allowing their populations to baloon and then having those poor uneducated uncivilised people landing into the heart of Europe which is only a recipe for racial trouble.

This is the first move toward the Chinese scramble for Africa and wait and see China will control Africa within 20 years unless Europe makes the move to gain influence now. Africans can produce the goods that are getting costlier to Produce on the Chinese Mainland with massive reserves of raw materials and closer geographical links to feed the Pan American, European and Asian markets, with the African Union and other forces at play give it ten or twenty years and "Made in Africa" or "Made in the Congo" will be the norm as Africa will be transformed into a massive workshop with large tracts of land given over to food production to feed the gigantic chinese population many of whom will make Africa their new homes. This will go down in history as a red letter day when the Chinese stepped out to play in the world of international influence. Over 1million Chinese already live in Africa incidently.

Wow.. anyway.. the US military has welcomed the fact that the Chinese will be sailing the same waters as them, and if the Iranians go, then that will be even better... these Somali pirates may help bring the world together a little bit.. cmon.. they're not so bad, they are not killing people, they are just robbing the rich and feeding the poor (themselves)

Manic Moran

Húrin wrote: »

The problems on the seas around Somalia will never be solved until the dire situation on the land of Somalia is resolved. These people are not resorting to piracy because they're especially evil. They are doing it because this is the kind of thing that desparate people do.

I agree with the first line. The lack of governance and the rule of law on Somalia really helps set the conditions for the piracy to continue. However, I really don't think they're doing it because they're desperate. They're doing it because it's easy and immensely profitable. They're not desperate, they're living in frigging mansions with cooking staff.

It is a little embarassing for the West that with the might of the NATO navies that they're not actually doing anything much about it. On the other hand, we kindof brought it on ourselves.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3736239.ece

THE Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights.
<snip>
Britain is part of a coalition force that patrols piracy stricken areas and the guidance has troubled navy officers who believe they should have more freedom to intervene.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the Chinese simply put a bullet in the head of the pirates. "Human rights? Are pirates. Death sentence. Have right to not be pirate. Are pirates. Execute pirates. No more pirate. Problem solved"

NTM

Mr.Micro

I was wondering where Long John and Blackbeard went to, retired of the coast of Somalia.

CCCP^

mumhaabu wrote: »

Lol!,

I think the nations of the world should make an example of Somalia and the Islamofacists that run it and blow them to atoms, I'd quite like to see it used as a testing ground for modern weapons. There is a large swathe of Africa that needs to be controlled and a swift war against Zimbabwe and the Kenyan dictators too would be no harm. Let's face it sub-saharan africa isn't capable of running itself and needs sino-western intervention to grow the economy and expolit the natural resources. Africa is eons behind Europe and needs outside intervention to modernise it and the effects for the western economies would be palpable.

Call it Colonialism or Imperialism all you want but it is the truth, but no one will admit due to the left wing propaganda that spouts from the true enemies of liberty.
Which would you rather a corrupt evil native regime or a peaceful modern and pro-democracy westernised government who enshrines democracy and human rights. Democracy must be enforced even if it takes force and internvention.

China is already making a scramble for Africa and Europe needs to tap this vital resource and help build it up instead of throwing aid at the situation and allowing their populations to baloon and then having those poor uneducated uncivilised people landing into the heart of Europe which is only a recipe for racial trouble.

This is the first move toward the Chinese scramble for Africa and wait and see China will control Africa within 20 years unless Europe makes the move to gain influence now. Africans can produce the goods that are getting costlier to Produce on the Chinese Mainland with massive reserves of raw materials and closer geographical links to feed the Pan American, European and Asian markets, with the African Union and other forces at play give it ten or twenty years and "Made in Africa" or "Made in the Congo" will be the norm as Africa will be transformed into a massive workshop with large tracts of land given over to food production to feed the gigantic chinese population many of whom will make Africa their new homes. This will go down in history as a red letter day when the Chinese stepped out to play in the world of international influence. Over 1million Chinese already live in Africa incidently.

Islamofacists. Wow. Go back to America, circa 2001. You'd be right at home.

I think that the European imperialism is to blame for Africa's dire state of affairs. Most of the ethnic-based wars on the continent are down to French or British people thousands of miles away in foreign capitals drawing a line on a map and saying "this is ours, thats yours." It's also down to the huge loans African states had to repay western nations and the IMF. At one point, it was proven that if everyone in the state of Zambia gave everything they produced to pay off loans, it still wouldn't cover their debts.

Most of the loans were concluded with tinpot dictatorships who went about amassing their own personal wealth at the expense of their nations, and who often backed these guys? Western countries backed the "right guy" in the Congo when Lumumba broke away and they executed him because he threatened their interests - copper and diamond mines.

Furthermore, if democracy has to be enforced like you say, then it isn't democracy anymore.

It's funny you go on about China about to exploit Africa. It was in the news just recently that a massive corporation from Korea or Japan (could have been Daewoo) purchased huge tracts of the island of Madagascar. It's using the land to research and grow GM crops I believe.

Europe had it's chance at Africa. And it utterly ruined the continent. You sound like Enoch Powell - what a prick he was.

mumhaabu

CCCP^ wrote: »

Islamofacists. Wow. Go back to America, circa 2001. You'd be right at home.

I think that the European imperialism is to blame for Africa's dire state of affairs. Most of the ethnic-based wars on the continent are down to French or British people thousands of miles away in foreign capitals drawing a line on a map and saying "this is ours, thats yours." It's also down to the huge loans African states had to repay western nations and the IMF. At one point, it was proven that if everyone in the state of Zambia gave everything they produced to pay off loans, it still wouldn't cover their debts.

Most of the loans were concluded with tinpot dictatorships who went about amassing their own personal wealth at the expense of their nations, and who often backed these guys? Western countries backed the "right guy" in the Congo when Lumumba broke away and they executed him because he threatened their interests - copper and diamond mines.

Furthermore, if democracy has to be enforced like you say, then it isn't democracy anymore.

It's funny you go on about China about to exploit Africa. It was in the news just recently that a massive corporation from Korea or Japan (could have been Daewoo) purchased huge tracts of the island of Madagascar. It's using the land to research and grow GM crops I believe.

Europe had it's chance at Africa. And it utterly ruined the continent. You sound like Enoch Powell - what a prick he was.

So you are happy with the "Democracy" in Zimbabwe where white people are treated like some sort of cancer and it is just convenient to blame the white man for everything, I suppose Mr. Mugabe is a product of the white man also. So you are happy for "Democracy" to erode human rights as long as it is the elected will of the people. I don't think the people in Ireland would have elected FF if they knew what they know now. Democracy works when & where people are intelligent enough (through good education systems) to distinguish who is good and who is better and who is monster raving looney.

Alot of people in the developing world (and the west) are uneducated and illiterate and cannot tell the difference between despots and democratic socialists! People are their own worst enemy and need to be protected from themselves. Is it Democracy when a radical religious leader takes power and imposes religious law and ideals such as Sharia or Zionism?

Democracy is the freedom to decide what is right and what is not, blaming Europe for Africa's troubles is a endless cycle which breeds cyncism and helps polarise Society towards Dictators which sees xenophobia used as in Zimbabwe's case of Democracy becoming a referendum of who do you like better blacks or whites or Mother Country or former coloniser i.e. Britain, Mugabes rallies are like a Hitler youth meetings except instead of Jews it is Britain and White people are blamed for everything until it becomes an almost Religion which would see a Big Brother style totalitarian takeover. Is this Democracy?

the_syco

My link seems to havedied. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1220/breaking28.htm seems to have the same news.

sink wrote: »

What I think is even more interesting is that Iran is sending Naval vessels to the area.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7793603.stm

Iran, China, Russia, the EU and US all conducting security operations in the same patch of water. Who would've thunk it? I guess international trade does trump political squabbles these days.

China, EU, etc, will follow UN rules. Iran will do what they want.

=-=

Oh, and mumhaabu I believe the US has it's hand in Africa now. They sure are training the soldiers, so are probably helping the locals to mine stuff...

wes

mumhaabu wrote: »

So you are happy with the "Democracy" in Zimbabwe where white people are treated like some sort of cancer and it is just convenient to blame the white man for everything, I suppose Mr. Mugabe is a product of the white man also. So you are happy for "Democracy" to erode human rights as long as it is the elected will of the people. I don't think the people in Ireland would have elected FF if they knew what they know now. Democracy works when & where people are intelligent enough (through good education systems) to distinguish who is good and who is better and who is monster raving looney.

Alot of people in the developing world (and the west) are uneducated and illiterate and cannot tell the difference between despots and democratic socialists! People are their own worst enemy and need to be protected from themselves. Is it Democracy when a radical religious leader takes power and imposes religious law and ideals such as Sharia or Zionism?

Democracy is the freedom to decide what is right and what is not, blaming Europe for Africa's troubles is a endless cycle which breeds cyncism and helps polarise Society towards Dictators which sees xenophobia used as in Zimbabwe's case of Democracy becoming a referendum of who do you like better blacks or whites or Mother Country or former coloniser i.e. Britain, Mugabes rallies are like a Hitler youth meetings except instead of Jews it is Britain and White people are blamed for everything until it becomes an almost Religion which would see a Big Brother style totalitarian takeover. Is this Democracy?

No one in this thread called Zimbabwe a democracy of any sort. Classic straw man argument, make up a position to argue against and attribute it to your opponent.

What you were on about was not democracy and neither is Zimbabwe.

When you force something at the end of the gun, you can be damn sure that is not democracy. It is wrong for Mugabe to force rule at the end of a gun and it is just as wrong when a democracy regardless of who they are, force there ways at the end of a gun.

wes

the_syco wrote: »

China, EU, etc, will follow UN rules. Iran will do what they want.

I somehow doubt Iran, will be the only one ignoring UN rules. Plenty of nations in those waters, have a history of doing what they want. Iran are hardly unique in this regard.

Sponge Bob

It is high time that the west recognised Somaliland and help to guards its borders against the pirate states to the east of it . Somaliland has existed , de facto and unrecognised, for almost 20 years .

It gets no media attention becuase it is peaceful and stable ....and Islamic but not in the least fascist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_somaliland_border_claims.jpg

wes

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is high time that the west recognised Somaliland and help to guards its borders against the pirate states to the east of it . Somaliland has existed , de facto and unrecognised, for almost 20 years .

It gets no media attention becuase it is peaceful and stable ....and Islamic but not in the least fascist

Yeah, I agree with you there. Its a defacto state and peaceful. Maybe when the rest of Somalia is peaceful in the future, they can enter into a federal arrangement if they so choose, but right now if they want independence, people should recognize it.

djpbarry

mumhaabu wrote: »

Democracy must be enforced even if it takes force and internvention.

*looks at mumhaabu's sig*

Oh the ironing :rolleyes:.