Arsenal v Liverpool

darkskol

The highlight of this match for me was the performance of Insua. If he keeps playing like that he is a serious contender as first choice.

mayordenis

Cruijff wrote: »

Ya I agree I couldnt understand why he was posting in Euro.

he wasn't - he justs deals in nonsensical ****.

opr

Pulling my hair out.

Played so well up until Arsenal went down to 10 men then couldn't string 3 passes together, Gerrard went missing altogether, Babel looked like he was drunk when he came on and again i am not happy with Rafa's decisions during the game.

Once again of course the same people will wade in with ...... but look we got a point away to Arsenal. Who cares about the what , if and or but right ? Oh and forget trying to give constructive criticism just show some blind faith :rolleyes:

Opr

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

that wasn't the price why would you quote his price in euro?

it was a structured deal worth at very most 20.3 million sterling even back then that was not more that 24/25 million - just shut up.

because i read irish newspapers and irish newspapers tend to put the prices in euro?

i dont do sterling calculations for every transfer

what difference does it make how much it was? he was taken off in another awful desicion to continue playing 1 up front against 10 men and sit off arsenal to let arsenal back into the game..

that's what the guy was trying to say...

Guy:Incognito

Cruijff wrote: »

I couldnt understand why he was posting in Euro.

Tabloidism. 30 is a bigger number than 20

Hes actually our 233m striker. It's 233m HK Dollars but still, he's worth 233m.

Ardent

darkskol wrote: »

The highlight of this match for me was the performance of Insua. If he keeps playing like that he is a serious contender as first choice.

He should start regaulrly from now on. Has shown to be far better than Dossena and Aurelio.

kingshankly

ntlbell wrote: »

22m stg was about 30m e at the time

if we go on to win the league by a point then that strike by keane would be well worth 20 million

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

He is being messed around too much, he is a forward and he is being played on the right side or the left side or anywhere except where he was best before joining Liverpool.

I think he is a very talented player and I think its in his own best interests to get out of Anfield.

I really think Benitez does not have a clue about developing players, who has come through from the youths since he has been there?

Cruijff wrote: »

AAAAAH

Here it is , my first time I agree with Eagle Eye !

Doesn't matter though. We have better strikers than him and don't play a 4 - 3 - 3 and most likely won't. He's one player, couldn't really give a **** about individuals. Ship them out when they're no good to ya. If he can't do it in the role Riera and Kuyt are currently operating in then he can piss off. We'll get someone else. It's cringe worthy watching him at this stage.

Unearthly

Liverpool still top of the league folks

not bad for a team who have apparently blown the league title about 8 times this season according to some of ye on here

Chong

Stekelly wrote: »

Tabloidism. 30 is a bigger number than 20

Thank fook I dont read newspapers.

Ardent

opr wrote: »

Pulling my hair out.

Played so well up until Arsenal went down to 10 men then couldn't string 3 passes together, Gerrard went missing altogether, Babel looked like he was drunk when he came on and again i am not happy with Rafa's decisions during the game.

Once again of course the same people will wade in with ...... but look we got a point away to Arsenal. Who cares about the what , if and or but right ? Oh and forget trying to give constructive criticism just show some blind faith :rolleyes:

Opr

Off with his head!! Only joking, I agree 100% with you, as does anyone without rose-tinted, super-fan glasses. Expect a backlash though from the blind faith brigade.

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

because i read irish newspapers and irish newspapers tend to put the prices in euro?

no they don't - transfers are more or less always reported in the buying clubs currency. A few rags might do that but then again it's my fault for thinking you might read anything other than some failed journalist working for a crap tabloid.

ntlbell wrote: »

what difference does it make how much it was? he was taken off in another awful desicion to continue playing 1 up front against 10 men and sit off arsenal to let arsenal back into the game..

that's what the guy was trying to say...

Keane was clearly tired - bar the goal he wasn't in the game - he brought on 3 attacking player's 2 of which are strikers 1 is a support striker.
Man you are so inept at life it's shocking.

super_furry

Just watching the two bookings again, he can't have any complaint with either. Both over the top, studs up and both dangerous play.

How poor are the Arsenal crowd through that the loudest they ever are is when they're booing?

ntlbell

kingshankly wrote: »

if we go on to win the league by a point then that strike by keane would be well worth 20 million

who said he wasn't worth the money?

I'm not complaining about the money spent i'm saying taken him off against a 10 man arsenal to continue to play 1 up front is redic....

Chong

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Doesn't matter though. We have better strikers than him and don't play a 4 - 3 - 3 and most likely won't. He's one player, couldn't really give a **** about individuals. Ship them out when they're no good to ya. If he can't do it in the role Riera and Kuyt are currently operating in then he can piss off. We'll get someone else. It's cringe worthy watching him at this stage.

I can defo see where your coming from its just disppointing coming from an Ajax POV, he used to be class for us , but as we all know Eredivisie is inferior.

Chong

Unearthly wrote: »

Liverpool still top of the league folks

not bad for a team who have apparently blown the league title about 8 times this season according to some of ye on here

Not to be a dick , but unfortunately for everyone I imagine Chelski will go top tomorrow evening.

Xavi6

Mod note: Lads there's been a number of reported posts from this thread. I don't want to have to dish out infractions but I will if the trolling/accusations of trolling continues. Just discuss the game without the BS. Cheers.

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

no they don't - transfers are more or less always reported in the buying clubs currency. A few rags might do that but then again it's my fault for thinking you might read anything other than some failed journalist working for a crap tabloid.



Keane was clearly tired - bar the goal he wasn't in the game - he brought on 3 attacking player's 2 of which are strikers 1 is a support striker.
Man you are so inept at life it's shocking.

so your saying papers dont give transfers and wages in euro? then you say some do?

right...

oh right so liver pool were playing 2 up front there from when arsenal went to 10 men?

there was 3 strikers on the pitch all right

but i dont consider been stuck to the wing getting caught off side all afternoon "supporting"

it was 1 up front for the whole game....

arsenal go to 10 men and you take robbie keane off how the hell could he be tired ffs....

dfx-

Dominated the game until the right red card, but Arsenal played very well afterwards and Gerrard and Alonso had atrocious games. Insua was probably the best out there.

For those ready made to complain, I suppose you'll be blaming Reina for Van Persie's goal.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

In the end can't help but be happy with that point considering everything that happened from an Arsenal point of view. Whats much worse is the loss of Fabregas in the long run. Nasri has to be the solution

Re Ade's sending off, still not sure entirely why that was, his hands or his foot being raised? twas harsh anyway imo.

Anyway, afterwards i thought the team and crowd were brilliant. The crowd really made it a difficult atmosphere for Pool and the team showed a lot of heart. For all we(I) complain about the likes of Denilson and Song, they put in a huge effort and did really well with no Cesc in the midfield.

Liverpool will be disappointed with not being able to take advantage but i'd say a point will do them just fine


[edit] how the hell does every thread with liverpool or united involve always end up in a big trollfest between the two?

RasTa

super_furry wrote: »

Just watching the two bookings again, he can't have any complaint with either. Both over the top, studs up and both dangerous play.

How poor are the Arsenal crowd through that the loudest they ever are is when they're booing?

lol

Anyway I said that last week but who knows Everton might get something at home and the crowd should be well fired up(drunk) for an evening kick off.

A great day for United!

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

so your saying papers dont give transfers and wages in euro? then you say some do?

dont misquote me - I said Papers don't report in euro I said the non factual lie based rags you read most likely do.

ntlbell wrote: »

arsenal go to 10 men and you take robbie keane off how the hell could he be tired ffs....

running around on his own up top for 80 minutes, he was fairly knackered, you wouldn't notice in the same way there was no contact between gerrard and gallas.

anyway I'm done with this, argument here is useless.

Chong

playa3 wrote: »

In the end can't help but be happy with that point considering everything that happened from an Arsenal point of view. Whats much worse is the loss of Fabregas in the long run. Nasri has to be the solution

Re Ade's sending off, still not sure entirely why that was, his hands or his foot being raised? twas harsh anyway imo.

Anyway, afterwards i thought the team and crowd were brilliant. The crowd really made it a difficult atmosphere for Pool and the team showed a lot of heart. For all we(I) complain about the likes of Denilson and Song, they put in a huge effort and did really well with no Cesc in the midfield.

Liverpool will be disappointed with not being able to take advantage but i'd say a point will do them just fine

What you reckon of Almunia , his kicking towards the end was ridulous, continually wasted the opportunities.

Charlie

Jaysis, Wenger does himself no favours with these interviews.

whatawaster

disappointed not to win, but a draw at the Emirates is never a bad result for Liverpool.
Plenty of positives though. Lucas played well, Robbie got a great goal and I thought Insua was tremendous. Solid defensively, passed the ball well and got down the line and put in some dangerous crosses. Let's hope he can keep his place.

Come on Everton!

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

dont misquote me - I said Papers don't report in euro I said the non factual lie based rags you read most likely do.



running around on his own up top for 80 minutes, he was fairly knackered, you wouldn't notice in the same way there was no contact between gerrard and gallas.

anyway I'm done with this, argument here is useless.

was he tired because he was up there running around on his own? where was all this support? did he not sit out the last two matches? surley he should be one of the most freshest players on the pitch?

super_furry

Wenger talking rubbish again, he really makes himself look foolish at times. It comes to something when Glenn Hoddle is the one making sense.

coco06

wenger never stops moaning does he?!

LuckyLloyd

opr wrote: »

Pulling my hair out.

Played so well up until Arsenal went down to 10 men then couldn't string 3 passes together, Gerrard went missing altogether, Babel looked like he was drunk when he came on and again i am not happy with Rafa's decisions during the game.

Once again of course the same people will wade in with ...... but look we got a point away to Arsenal. Who cares about the what , if and or but right ? Oh and forget trying to give constructive criticism just show some blind faith :rolleyes:

Opr

We don't play in a vacuum independent from the opposition though. Arsenal's work rate was insane after they went to 10 men - and they pressed us really high up the park. It's not just a case of us playing poorly - any team would have struggled to capitalise on their advantage during that 15 minute stretch. As for the subs:

- Keane had begun to look a little tired and wasn't particularly involved for about 10 mins before he was taken off;
- Riera the same;
- When Lucas came off we had established a control over the game again and were causing problems, might as well throw a striker on at that point;
- Babel was rubbish again, but I can understand why he gets so many second chances - not the manager's fault;
- El Zahr came closest for us and impacted the game after his introduction;

This is the team and manager you've got. Benitez won La Liga and the UEFA Cup with Valencia employing these tactics and outlook on the game. He has made us a force in Europe doing the same. He's not changing his MO at this stage - that people refuse to accept this when we are top of the league is comical to me. At the end of the season you will have to look at how we finished up and the upside that exists in the squad (understanding that the squad will play a certain way under Rafa) and make a decision as to whether you are getting closer under him and should allow him to continue.

Constant whinging and longing over what we haven't got in terms of the management or playing staff is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We don't play in a vacuum independent from the opposition though. Arsenal's work rate was insane after they went to 10 men - and they pressed us really high up the park. It's not just a case of us playing poorly - any team would have struggled to capitalise on their advantage during that 15 minute stretch. As for the subs:

- Keane had begun to look a little tired and wasn't particularly involved for about 10 mins before he was taken off;
- Riera the same;
- When Lucas came off we had established a control over the game again and were causing problems, might as well throw a striker on at that point;
- Babel was rubbish again, but I can understand why he gets so many second chances - not the manager's fault;
- El Zahr came closest for us and impacted the game after his introduction;

This is the team and manager you've got. Benitez won La Liga and the UEFA Cup with Valencia employing these tactics and outlook on the game. He has made us a force in Europe doing the same. He's not changing his MO at this stage - that people refuse to accept this when we are top of the league is comical to me. At the end of the season you will have to look at how we finished up and the upside that exists in the squad (understanding that the squad will play a certain way under Rafa) and make a decision as to whether you are getting closer under him and should allow him to continue.

Constant whinging and longing over what we haven't got in terms of the management or playing staff is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

NO. When Benitez took over at Valencia he was given a very good team and most importantly he had Killy Gonzalez and Angulo who both played wide on the pitch. He has consistently failed to have any width at Liverpool. Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side. Its important to remember that.

Ardent

LuckyLloyd - there's another side to the coin. Last season, when Benitez's job was on the line (and rightly so IMO), that's when we started to play good consistent stuff and go on a strong run in the league. There was little rotation during this period and we played good attacking pressing fooball.

Benitez needs to be put under pressure in order to get the best out of him. Our form now is D-D-W-D-D. That's not good enough. People should moan and they are certinaly entitled to. I also think his contract should be deferred until the end of this season.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

NO. When Benitez took over at Valencia he was given a very good team and most importantly he had Killy Gonzalez and Angulo who both played wide on the pitch. He has consistently failed to have any width at Liverpool. Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side. Its important to remember that.

Kily and Angulo did not amount to something astoundingly different from Kuyt and Riera. They were not wingers in the classical (Kanchelskis, Giggs, Duff) sense of the word. The 4 - 5 - 1 type formation he uses now was also a staple. Sure, Cuper left him a good side, and he won with them.

Houllier left him with a deeply flawed collection of players and he won the CL with them, and has gradually improved bit by bit over the past three years in the league.

But whatever, this has been done to death time and time again. However, trust me Eagle Eye, your memory is poor if you think Valencia were a world apart from the current Liverpool side.

jesus_thats_gre

eagle eye wrote: »

I really think Benitez does not have a clue about developing players, who has come through from the youths since he has been there?

The three this season are Insua, El Zhar and Stephen Darby... If you want to talk about previous seasons, Rafa is quoted as saying that the youth policy was in a tragic state upon his arrival and he spent near 30% of all transfer funds attributed to his reign picking up 15 and 16 years olds over the past 2 seasons. We are finally starting to see the fruit of his policies.



Anyway, would have taken a draw before the match so content enough. The sending off was a joke and actually worked in Arsenal's favour as they were dramatically improved afterwards. Was extremely impressed with both Insua and Lucas - really happy for Lucas following the disgraceful behaviour by fans against Fulham. Babel was tragic once again.

I would have liked us to push on more after the sending off but credit to Arsenal, they stepped it up a gear when the crowd got behind them. Two fantastic goals as well.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kily and Angulo did not amount to something astoundingly different from Kuyt and Riera. They were not wingers in the classical (Kanchelskis, Giggs, Duff) sense of the word. The 4 - 5 - 1 type formation he uses now was also a staple. Sure, Cuper left him a good side, and he won with them.

Houllier left him with a deeply flawed collection of players and he won the CL with them, and has gradually improved bit by bit over the past three years in the league.

But whatever, this has been done to death time and time again. However, trust me Eagle Eye, your memory is poor if you think Valencia were a world apart from the current Liverpool side.

I'll agree that Angulo played sort of similar to Kuyt, with one notable exception, his ability to cross the ball, but Killy was a wide player through and through.

Rockee

Kold wrote: »

Oh, very good argument. Not a stupid post at all.

I didnt think what you said warranted an actual response. The season is only at Christmas so plenty of time for Liverpool to pick up the quality of their performances.

jesus_thats_gre

eagle eye wrote: »

NO. When Benitez took over at Valencia he was given a very good team and most importantly he had Killy Gonzalez and Angulo who both played wide on the pitch. He has consistently failed to have any width at Liverpool. Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side. Its important to remember that.

Did the director of football not decide the players to buy during and before Rafa's time at Valencia? Attributing his success to Cuper though is a first. Am surprised it has taken 4 years for it to come up.

eagle eye

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Did the director of football not decide the players to buy during and before Rafa's time at Valencia? Attributing his success to Cuper though is a first. Am surprised it has taken 4 years for it to come up.

And who coached these players?

mormank

if a random guy on here on boards knows for a fact that benitez's success at valencia was largely down to cuper why didnt the board see this and appoint him for a year or two before rafa?? strange..

and does anybody else think that if wenger had just kept lassana diarra that they would be far better of in the league now..i know obviously there was stuff goin on regarding diarra wanting playing time etc but now especially with real gettin him it looks poor from wenger..

jesus_thats_gre

eagle eye wrote: »

And who coached these players?

Both managers did...

Ardent

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Did the director of football not decide the players to buy during and before Rafa's time at Valencia? Attributing his success to Cuper though is a first. Am surprised it has taken 4 years for it to come up.

The point I think is that Benitez is a good coach of footballers but has a proven poor eye for them in the transfer market. A large part of his success at Valencia can be attributed to the quality of the players left at his disposal by Hector Cuper.

eagle eye

mormank wrote: »

if a random guy on here on boards knows for a fact that benitez's success at valencia was largely down to cuper why didnt the board see this and appoint him for a year or two before rafa?? strange..

and does anybody else think that if wenger had just kept lassana diarra that they would be far better of in the league now..i know obviously there was stuff goin on regarding diarra wanting playing time etc but now especially with real gettin him it looks poor from wenger..

Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side.

Above is exactly what I said, not largely down to Cuper. Please refrain from trying to bend and twist my words like some silly child.

jesus_thats_gre

mormank wrote: »

and does anybody else think that if wenger had just kept lassana diarra that they would be far better of in the league now..i know obviously there was stuff goin on regarding diarra wanting playing time etc but now especially with real gettin him it looks poor from wenger..

Wenger obviously rated him. Diarra seemingly liked it at Arsenal. They should just take the hit and try to buy him back tbh. Denilson and Diaby aren't good enough. They are second string players and should not be depended upon like they are.

spockety

ntlbell wrote: »

22m stg was about 30m e at the time

Ah yes, but they only paid 5m up front. Which was about 6.5m euro at the time. Given euro is practically now a pound, and his fee is actually more 20.5m than 22m sterling, it means the total cost in Euro if they paid the balance today would be 22m Euro.

I love these threads, you really do get into some great football debates with supporters of other clubs!

spockety

Ardent wrote: »

Off with his head!! Only joking, I agree 100% with you, as does anyone without rose-tinted, super-fan glasses. Expect a backlash though from the blind faith brigade.

Nah, I would more say expect a backlash from the "happy to be top of the league" brigade.

The blind people are the ones who haven't noticed league position and results against main league rivals.

TOP OF THE LEAGUE!! YEEHAW!

Ardent

spockety wrote: »

TOP OF THE LEAGUE!! YEEHAW!

Until Chelsea play their game in hand. WWDWW - good enough for small clubs but not good enough for Liverpool FC. Looks like it's up to Chelsea again to keep the Man Utd from equalling LIverpool's title total.

spockety

eagle eye wrote: »

NO. When Benitez took over at Valencia he was given a very good team and most importantly he had Killy Gonzalez and Angulo who both played wide on the pitch. He has consistently failed to have any width at Liverpool. Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side. Its important to remember that.

Yes, just like Gerard Houllier had a lot to do with Benitez winning the Champions League with Liverpool, leaving him behind a dazzling array of stars like Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, Vladimir Smicer, and Milan Baros.

Give me a break. The man is one of the top coaches in the world.

spockety

Ardent wrote: »

LuckyLloyd - there's another side to the coin. Last season, when Benitez's job was on the line (and rightly so IMO), that's when we started to play good consistent stuff and go on a strong run in the league. There was little rotation during this period and we played good attacking pressing fooball.

Benitez needs to be put under pressure in order to get the best out of him. Our form now is D-D-W-D-D. That's not good enough. People should moan and they are certinaly entitled to. I also think his contract should be deferred until the end of this season.

Who do you think should be brought in to replace him?

Form for the last 6 matches

United - 11 pts
Chelsea - 11pts
Liverpool - 10pts
Arsenal - 8pts

By your logic, Ferguson and Scolari should probably walk as well.

Ardent

spockety wrote: »

Yes, just like Gerard Houllier had a lot to do with Benitez winning the Champions League with Liverpool, leaving him behind a dazzling array of stars like Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, Vladimir Smicer, and Milan Baros.

Totally different. You can't compare a league with a cup competition.

Benitez won the CL in spite of Houllier's players, not because of them. But he did get very lucky along the way to win it you have to admit, and he got it tactically wrong in the final.

copacetic

spockety wrote: »

Nah, I would more say expect a backlash from the "happy to be top of the league" brigade.

The blind people are the ones who haven't noticed league position and results against main league rivals.

TOP OF THE LEAGUE!! YEEHAW!

all while missing arguably our best player..

mormank

eagle eye wrote: »

Hector Cuper had a lot to do with Benitez success at Valencia leaving him such a good side.

Above is exactly what I said, not largely down to Cuper. Please refrain from trying to bend and twist my words like some silly child.

ah yes and it was benitez who won the titles with this squad not hector. why didnt hector win a league title??

also there was a brief period in time iirc when valencia were the footballing team to be admired with the likes of aimar in the team e.g would be when they came to anfield and supposedly taught us a footballing lesson.

diarra is gone forever now from arsenal. however him leaving was largely down to flamini being around which is another reason why i would feel really let down by flmini that he walked. if wenger hadnt played flamini the gooners would most likely be so much better off right now..