Words fail me..

Benedict XVI

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Football in Australia refers to Australian Rules Football.

This is not quiet correct,only in certain parts of Australia, Victoria in particular, is Australian Rules Football known as Football.

In other part, NSW in particular, Football is Rugby League Football

I have really enjoyed this thread, except for the soccer v football debate, but the man from Waterford has saved it since, I'll give my own 2c worth later

themont85

SligoBrewer wrote: »

The IRFU run 4 franchises.
1)The idea of franchise football sickens me.
2)There are 20 ish football clubs in this country. Each steeped in history in heritage. Which 4 do you save or more importantly, which 15 do you destroy?

Provencial rugby whilst having a history in Ireland was never that big until a few years ago. There are a huge number of rugby clubs in this country too, the IRFU had to 'kill' of any notion of proffesionalism with these clubs in order to run proper pro rugby in this country. Whilst the club game struggles now to get big gates and its standard is below what it could, it still maintains its traditions, members and a lot of its supporters of old. The LoI clubs could be maintained on an ameteur/semi pro basis much like AIL clubs below a top tier of lesser clubs/franchises. The standard of the league would drop but fair play to you lads you would still support and keep your club.

SectionF wrote: »

Munster, as everyone knows, is a singular exception, and the rest of rugby is still essentially aspirational middle class. I'm not knocking the game, btw. What I'm saying is that it is an ideal vehicle for marketers, which football isn't, so we need to think beyond the simplistic refrain that says rugby is a model for the development of football.
As for development of players, there probably have never been more future footballers in Ireland than now. It would be nice if we had a viable league for them to play in.

Average gates in provincial rugby have grown massively in the last few years. Leinster have 10k season ticket holders and an average of 16.5k at their games. Munster too have a great number of fans. But looking at Leinster, despite the fact that they dissapoint their fans year on year they have managed to build a healthy support base from accross the spectrum-this is because the standard is great and they play in a high quality European club competition-and they have built a passionate support base. Believe me there's plenty of people from different classes at the games.

I don't understand how you can discount rugby as a way of looking at how proffesional sports can be run in this country. GAA has a stronghold in this country and pro rugby has a huge footing in this country and is growing rapidly. Football is being left behind big time in the proffesional stakes which is bad.

I want a pro soccer league in this country as much as you do, but how do you propose a 'viable league' in this country. Do you believe it can be done with the number of current clubs? (please don't say that we should get the barstoolers to stop ignoring the league).

CiaranC

themont85 wrote: »

Provencial rugby whilst having a history in Ireland was never that big until a few years ago. There are a huge number of rugby clubs in this country too, the IRFU had to 'kill' of any notion of proffesionalism with these clubs in order to run proper pro rugby in this country. Whilst the club game struggles now to get big gates and its standard is below what it could, it still maintains its traditions, members and a lot of its supporters of old. The LoI clubs could be maintained on an ameteur/semi pro basis much like AIL clubs below a top tier of lesser clubs/franchises. The standard of the league would drop but fair play to you lads you would still support and keep your club.

Forget about franchise football. Its never gonna happen.

You suggest a top tier of franchises over the league we have now? Who is going to attend these matches? I sure as hell wouldnt.

Your idea is basically to alienate the existing football fan in this country on the off chance that Paddy Premiership will somehow be dying to see Leinster vs. Queen Of The South or Connaught vs. Linfield. Laughable.

Pure Cork

themont85 wrote: »

Provencial rugby whilst having a history in Ireland was never that big until a few years ago. There are a huge number of rugby clubs in this country too, the IRFU had to 'kill' of any notion of proffesionalism with these clubs in order to run proper pro rugby in this country. Whilst the club game struggles now to get big gates and its standard is below what it could, it still maintains its traditions, members and a lot of its supporters of old. The LoI clubs could be maintained on an ameteur/semi pro basis much like AIL clubs below a top tier of lesser clubs/franchises. The standard of the league would drop but fair play to you lads you would still support and keep your club.

The LOI is the pinnacle of domestic football in Ireland. There are already leagues like the MSL, LSL, etc. which you could equate with AIL clubs. How many teams should be in the top tier of franchises? If there we four franchises for example, it would be a really sh*t league. Having franchises from other countries (except NI) isn't even a remote possibility.

themont85 wrote: »

Do you believe it can be done with the number of current clubs?

Do you think there are too many or too few clubs?

CiaranC wrote: »

Forget about franchise football. Its never gonna happen.

You suggest a top tier of franchises over the league we have now? Who is going to attend these matches? I sure as hell wouldnt.

Your idea is basically to alienate the existing football fan in this country on the off chance that Paddy Premiership will somehow be dying to see Leinster vs. Queen Of The South or Connaught vs. Linfield. Laughable.

Surely Linfield wouldn't be included? There would be an Ulster franchise instead. Or are Linfield better than the LOI clubs? Why would Scottish clubs be included?

CiaranC

I assumed we were talking about applying the rugby model to the LOI. Provinces vs. foreign clubs. Its a farcical suggestion.

SectionF

themont85 wrote: »

The LoI clubs could be maintained on an ameteur/semi pro basis much like AIL clubs below a top tier of lesser clubs/franchises.

How many franchise clubs do you propose, and what league would they play in? It's all very well citing rugby's success, but for this to be credible you need specifics.

Average gates in provincial rugby have grown massively in the last few years. Leinster have 10k season ticket holders and an average of 16.5k at their games. Munster too have a great number of fans. But looking at Leinster, despite the fact that they dissapoint their fans year on year they have managed to build a healthy support base from accross the spectrum-this is because the standard is great and they play in a high quality European club competition-and they have built a passionate support base. Believe me there's plenty of people from different classes at the games.

Rugby has done well, and deserves its success. I'm not some sniffy purist who eschews all other sports, and I've been to Leinster games. Believe me, passion is not the first quality that I would associate with Leinster support. There are a few brave souls who try to get the crowd behind the team, but on the whole it's a rather polite, respectable affair, and a very different experience to the intensity of football.

Football is being left behind big time in the proffesional stakes which is bad.

We can agree on that much.

I want a pro soccer league in this country as much as you do, but how do you propose a 'viable league' in this country. Do you believe it can be done with the number of current clubs? (please don't say that we should get the barstoolers to stop ignoring the league).

There is something to be said for a cull of clubs at the top level. Certainly the introduction of a new club in Fingal north Dublin was perverse. (Another wheeze driven by a political agenda: is there no end to the stupidity of our elected reps when it comes to football?)

Likewise, the practice of having clubs move around willy-nilly within Dublin has led to a loss of identity, though that may be about to end with the movement of Shamrock Rovers back south of the Liffey. Dublin is a big city, and we are not expecting EPL-scale clubs here.

In the short-term, we need a reality check on the viability of full-time football. If club incomes can support it, well and good, but the days of taking a massive punt hoping that the crowds will follow are over.

Long-term, the only future is for elite clubs in an all-Ireland league, a proposal that had some problems, not least its threat to existing cosy arrangements, but that had far more specifics attached to it than this 'copy rugby' doctrine that is emerging. Needless to say, some of the more marginal clubs will have a problem with this, but hard choices will need to be made.

As for getting barstoolers to stop ignoring Irish football, I'm afraid you'll have to bear with me on that. Football is not going to work under any format in Ireland unless we can get past current monopoly of undying, exclusive identification with British clubs at the expense of the game here. The philistine attitude of Irish football fans to the game here is probably the biggest single issue facing football. This is something rugby doesn't suffer, since it shares a more or less level playing pitch with its British competition.

We need to change the culture. That's a long-term project that won't be helped by waving a Leinster match programme at the problem.

Pure Cork

CiaranC wrote: »

I assumed we were talking about applying the rugby model to the LOI. Provinces vs. foreign clubs.

The rugby model is not applicable to football.

CiaranC

Pure Cork wrote: »

The rugby model is not applicable to football.

lol, seriously? Thats what Im saying. Do try and keep up. Poster above suggests the rugby style franchise model as a tier above LOI.

Pure Cork

CiaranC wrote: »

lol, seriously? Thats what Im saying. Do try and keep up. Poster above suggests the rugby style franchise model as a tier above LOI.

I agreed with your point. Keep up.

CiaranC

Zebra3

themont85 wrote: »

Provencial rugby whilst having a history in Ireland was never that big until a few years ago. There are a huge number of rugby clubs in this country too, the IRFU had to 'kill' of any notion of proffesionalism with these clubs in order to run proper pro rugby in this country. Whilst the club game struggles now to get big gates and its standard is below what it could, it still maintains its traditions, members and a lot of its supporters of old. The LoI clubs could be maintained on an ameteur/semi pro basis much like AIL clubs below a top tier of lesser clubs/franchises. The standard of the league would drop but fair play to you lads you would still support and keep your club.




Average gates in provincial rugby have grown massively in the last few years. Leinster have 10k season ticket holders and an average of 16.5k at their games. Munster too have a great number of fans. But looking at Leinster, despite the fact that they dissapoint their fans year on year they have managed to build a healthy support base from accross the spectrum-this is because the standard is great and they play in a high quality European club competition-and they have built a passionate support base. Believe me there's plenty of people from different classes at the games.

I don't understand how you can discount rugby as a way of looking at how proffesional sports can be run in this country. GAA has a stronghold in this country and pro rugby has a huge footing in this country and is growing rapidly. Football is being left behind big time in the proffesional stakes which is bad.

I want a pro soccer league in this country as much as you do, but how do you propose a 'viable league' in this country. Do you believe it can be done with the number of current clubs? (please don't say that we should get the barstoolers to stop ignoring the league).

How many games a year do the provinces play? It seems like sports "fans" in this country are only interested in following sides that don't play a huge amount of games each year, i.e. Ireland rugby and footie teams, GAA counties (most fans don't do winter) and rugby's provincial sides.

Any football franchise here playing in the Barclays League or a pan-European competition will be playing 40 odd games a season. Too much effort for most of their potential customers imho.

themont85

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many games a year do the provinces play? It seems like sports "fans" in this country are only interested in following sides that don't play a huge amount of games each year, i.e. Ireland rugby and footie teams, GAA counties (most fans don't do winter) and rugby's provincial sides.

Any football franchise here playing in the Barclays League or a pan-European competition will be playing 40 odd games a season. Too much effort for most of their potential customers imho.

9 Magners league games and at least 3 HC games at home with the same number away. The 16.5k average gate is for all these games, including a less glamourous fixture against the likes of Glasgow. Rugby is a far more attritional sport, it can't have any more than 1 game a week. This doesn't include the glamour international or knockout stages of the HC. Initally most of Leinster's 10k season ticket holders probably came to games for glamourous HC games but now they'll go to run of the mill league game. BTW Secion F, i've foundmost of Leinster's games to have better atmospheres than any LoI match i have attended in the past. And 10k season ticket holders can be described as fairly 'hardcore' support for a sport like rugby which doesn't have the universal appeal like soccer does.

To answer the above question by another poster, of course there are too many clubs-this country has a population of 4 million and unlike Scotland who have a decent standard has the GAA beast to compete with and a competant proffesional rugby structure. I'm not suggesting a regionalisation of soccer here, but rationalising the number of clubs into franchises perhaps could work.

Pure Cork

themont85 wrote: »

To answer the above question by another poster, of course there are too many clubs-this country has a population of 4 million and unlike Scotland who have a decent standard has the GAA beast to compete with and a competant proffesional rugby structure. I'm not suggesting a regionalisation of soccer here, but rationalising the number of clubs into franchises perhaps could work.

What clubs would you get rid of? Last year, there were 22 clubs in the top two tiers of Irish football. 22 clubs isn't a lot, especially when there are two divisions. However, in my opinion, there are two many Dublin clubs.

themont85

Pure Cork wrote: »

What clubs would you get rid of? Last year, there were 22 clubs in the top two tiers of Irish football. 22 clubs isn't a lot, especially when there are two divisions. However, in my opinion, there are two many Dublin clubs.

Don't get rid of these clubs but start afresh new clubs but make all current LoI clubs non proffesional.

Pure Cork

themont85 wrote: »

Don't get rid of these clubs but start afresh new clubs but make all current LoI clubs non proffesional.

There's already leagues like the MSL, LSL, etc. The LOI is the pinnacle of Irish football. Why would you get rid of clubs that have fans and history, and replace them with franchises? I could understand if you were suggesting restructuring the league, restructuring clubs, etc. Where would you have the franchises based? How many franchises would there be?

stovelid

LOL, we've lost all the casual fans to cross-channel football. Now we're suggesting alienating the minority of remaining fans who have stayed loyal to their clubs by scrapping them to create franchises which will probably be ignored by new fans anyway.

bohsman

themont85 wrote: »

Don't get rid of these clubs but start afresh new clubs but make all current LoI clubs non proffesional.

How many new clubs, where would they play, who would they play against?

invincibleirish

SectionF wrote: »

As for getting barstoolers to stop ignoring Irish football, I'm afraid you'll have to bear with me on that. Football is not going to work under any format in Ireland unless we can get past current monopoly of undying, exclusive identification with British clubs at the expense of the game here. The philistine attitude of Irish football fans to the game here is probably the biggest single issue facing football. This is something rugby doesn't suffer, since it shares a more or less level playing pitch with its British competition.

No disrespect but this point suggests to me bitterness on your part. 'barstoolers' & philistines are free and able to pick who they can and cannot support. Its not their fault that the LoI clubs are in a cycle of boom and bust. No one is obligated to support a certain club, league or sport.


-barstool supporter.

Zebra3

themont85 wrote: »

9 Magners league games and at least 3 HC games at home with the same number away. The 16.5k average gate is for all these games, including a less glamourous fixture against the likes of Glasgow. Rugby is a far more attritional sport, it can't have any more than 1 game a week. This doesn't include the glamour international or knockout stages of the HC.

So maybe 15 games in a 52 week year. Seems I made a very valid point then.

_blank_

themont85 wrote: »

start afresh new clubs

Who supports these new clubs?

Not me, that's for sure.

What you are proposing is that we scrap teams that already have a following, however small, in favour of teams which NOBODY will support.

History shows that the vast majority of Irish people have zero interest in supporting a national league. By scrapping the teams which already exist, you are then getting rid of the small amount of people who do actively follow the league. How could I support some other club above Shelbourne? WHY would I support Dublin United. You expect me to stand shoulder with Bohs, Rovers and Pats fans? Get a bleedin' grip here.

Where will they play? The same stadiums currently used? Sure people won't go to them. What makes you think this will change by inventing new teams?

Where will they get money? Nobody is investing in the current clubs, why would they invest in the newly invented clubs? People don't go to matches, why would they go matches for the new teams?

What would draw fans?

I ask this of every person who ever suggests franchise football, and I never get an answer.

Quint

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many games a year do the provinces play? It seems like sports "fans" in this country are only interested in following sides that don't play a huge amount of games each year, i.e. Ireland rugby and footie teams, GAA counties (most fans don't do winter) and rugby's provincial sides.

Any football franchise here playing in the Barclays League or a pan-European competition will be playing 40 odd games a season. Too much effort for most of their potential customers imho.

The difference with provencial rugby is that you can go along to a Leinster game and see world class players like O'Driscoll, Contipomi, Darcy, Elsom, CJ van der Linde etc. Plenty of Irish international at the top level. You can watch them play against teams with other established internationals. Competing for the Heineken Cup, the equivalent of the Champions League. Don't try and fool yourself and pretend the reason people go to rugby is because there's less games!

SectionF

Quint wrote: »

The difference with provencial rugby is that you can go along to a Leinster game and see world class players like O'Driscoll, Contipomi, Darcy, Elsom, CJ van der Linde etc. Plenty of Irish international at the top level. You can watch them play against teams with other established internationals.

So why is it being touted as a model for football?

Zebra3

Quint wrote: »

The difference with provencial rugby is that you can go along to a Leinster game and see world class players like O'Driscoll, Contipomi, Darcy, Elsom, CJ van der Linde etc. Plenty of Irish international at the top level. You can watch them play against teams with other established internationals. Competing for the Heineken Cup, the equivalent of the Champions League. Don't try and fool yourself and pretend the reason people go to rugby is because there's less games!

You're missing my point. I'm saying Irish sports "fans" don't seem interested in going regularly to watch a team that plays 20+ home games a season and are happy with supporting sides that don't involve to much of a regular effort. You only have to look at how crowds disapper for GAA inter-county games in the winter to see how fickle these people are.

Is there a market here for Dublin Franchise v Wigan on a Saturday and then on a Wednesday v Bolton with both games in Lansdowne and cheapest tickets forty notes? :rolleyes:

Jazzy

Des wrote: »

What would draw fans?

im not exactly sure what would draw me. i was at the UCD - Galway match towards the end of the season and tbh, it was sh1te. it was a bit of a laugh being there and that sorta thing but it was a really really REALLY awful game. ppl say that the quality arguement doesnt count but if u do go to a game and it is that bad it definately doesnt make me want to come back. my other option is Bray Wanderers and from what ive seen of them, they are terrible too.
i have no connection to these clubs bar the fact that they are close to me and if i were to start going to local games, id want them to be local. i dont want to go all the way to tallaght every friday night to watch rovers or to tolka to watch shels. if im going to go to a game and support a local side it would help if they didnt play boring unproductive and lazy football. from the UCD - Galway match i saw f-all effort and no passion. as i said, i actually had more respect and more fun watching my college side every wednesday lunch time

themont85

Zebra3 wrote: »

So maybe 15 games in a 52 week year. Seems I made a very valid point then.

Not really at all tbh. Whats it in the Premier league, 19 home games a year. A few cup games and on average its probably just over 20 home games a year(im discounting the CL sides who obviousely have more games).

You have a very defeatest attitude about Irish people going to games regularly. Rugby doesn't have the universal appeal of soccer yet they can draw consistant home crowds. Soccer is exremelly popular here, there is no reason why there can't be well followed football here.

Des wrote: »

Who supports these new clubs?

Not me, that's for sure.

What you are proposing is that we scrap teams that already have a following, however small, in favour of teams which NOBODY will support.

History shows that the vast majority of Irish people have zero interest in supporting a national league. By scrapping the teams which already exist, you are then getting rid of the small amount of people who do actively follow the league. How could I support some other club above Shelbourne? WHY would I support Dublin United. You expect me to stand shoulder with Bohs, Rovers and Pats fans? Get a bleedin' grip here.

Where will they play? The same stadiums currently used? Sure people won't go to them. What makes you think this will change by inventing new teams?

Where will they get money? Nobody is investing in the current clubs, why would they invest in the newly invented clubs? People don't go to matches, why would they go matches for the new teams?

What would draw fans?

I ask this of every person who ever suggests franchise football, and I never get an answer.

You see this is the thing, you say nobody will support these teams because they are starting from the bottom. Essentially pro rugby started from the bottom, now look at it. I've already sighted Leinster, i think it was 2004 and just over 2k went to a game which can now be filled multiple times over.

Finance is a problem naturally but imo a major fault in soccer has been the fact that it hasn't been centrally organised like rugby or Gaa. Each club goes of on its own tangent. A rationalisation of resources can work.

CiaranC

Jazzy wrote: »

from the UCD - Galway match i saw f-all effort and no passion. as i said, i actually had more respect and more fun watching my college side every wednesday lunch time

To be fair, basing your opinion on UCD vs Galway, a bottom of the table clash between the worst team Ive seen in LOI for many a year, in the ground every LOI fan hates going to and a nervous Galway on the brink of disaster is hardly a reflection of the overall quality of the league.

themont85 wrote:

You see this is the thing, you say nobody will support these teams because they are starting from the bottom.

You are essentially talking about creating a new football structure in Ireland which excludes all existing fans as a solution to general apathy for the game here.

Its just ridiculous.

smackbunnybaby

CiaranC wrote: »

To be fair, basing your opinion on UCD vs Galway, a bottom of the table clash between the worst team Ive seen in LOI for many a year, in the ground every LOI fan hates going to and a nervous Galway on the brink of disaster is hardly a reflection of the overall quality of the league.

it is if there are 10-12 teams in the division and that is the top division...

Pure Cork

themont85 wrote: »

You see this is the thing, you say nobody will support these teams because they are starting from the bottom. Essentially pro rugby started from the bottom, now look at it. I've already sighted Leinster, i think it was 2004 and just over 2k went to a game which can now be filled multiple times over.

Finance is a problem naturally but imo a major fault in soccer has been the fact that it hasn't been centrally organised like rugby or Gaa. Each club goes of on its own tangent. A rationalisation of resources can work.

Pure Cork wrote: »

There's already leagues like the MSL, LSL, etc. The LOI is the pinnacle of Irish football. Why would you get rid of clubs that have fans and history, and replace them with franchises? I could understand if you were suggesting restructuring the league, restructuring clubs, etc. Where would you have the franchises based? How many franchises would there be?

.

Gavin "shels"

themont85 wrote: »

Not really at all tbh. Whats it in the Premier league, 19 home games a year. A few cup games and on average its probably just over 20 home games a year(im discounting the CL sides who obviousely have more games).

And how many would the majority of Oirish "fans" go to? Maybe 1, or if a Champions League final, FA Cup final, etc... arises they might make a few prawn sandwiches and pop over to that.:rolleyes:

Zebra3

themont85 wrote: »

Not really at all tbh. Whats it in the Premier league, 19 home games a year. A few cup games and on average its probably just over 20 home games a year(im discounting the CL sides who obviousely have more games).

So that's over twice as many home games then............. :rolleyes:

themont85 wrote: »

You have a very defeatest attitude about Irish people going to games regularly.

It's safe to say I don't. I've a realist attitude. One that is obtained from looking at the facts to hand.

As I've already pointed out, where do all the "loyal" GAA fans go when their county is playing in the winter???? Most people in Ireland just couldn't be arsed on too much of a regular basis.

I'll repeat my point again. What sort of crowds will turn up for "top class" football when dublin Franchise are playing Bolton and Wigan?

And what happens if they get relegated? Sell-out crowds at Lansdowne for the visit of Doncaster?

Pure Cork

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

it is if there are 10-12 teams in the division and that is the top division...

The team who finished in last place and the team who escaped relegation by one point reflect the whole quality of the league? I'd be laughed out of it if I said that Derby, Fulham, and Newcastle reflected the overall quality of the EPL for the 07/08 season.

Jazzy

Gavin shels wrote: »

And how many would the majority of Oirish "fans" go to? Maybe 1, or if a Champions League final, FA Cup final, etc... arises they might make a few prawn sandwiches and pop over to that.:rolleyes:

do u mean to throw in so many cliches into ur sentences ?


but yeah ciaran, the standard didnt help at all. tbh, that was the game i would have had the most connection to. UCD is near me and i knew folks who played for them once upon a time and I was in class with one of the Galway players and another was a year ahead in school. i went with the intention of trying to find a reason to go and aside from me and my mates getting pissed before during and after the match there was no reason to return watsoever

themont85

Zebra3 wrote: »

So that's over twice as many home games then............. :rolleyes:

Not really, maybe 22 games for the average English teams. Not over twice as many if i count correctly. I gurantee there would be a similar attendence number if Leinster had 20 home games a year, its just rugby is attritional and is different to football in that there are no mid week games.

Leinster vs Glasgow Warriors isn't glamouous but people still go. The public may initally have been attracted by the glamour of the HC but a rather large proportion stay to go to the run of the mill not so exciting ML games.

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's safe to say I don't. I've a realist attitude. One that is obtained from looking at the facts to hand.

As I've already pointed out, where do all the "loyal" GAA fans go when their county is playing in the winter???? Most people in Ireland just couldn't be arsed on too much of a regular basis.

I'll repeat my point again. What sort of crowds will turn up for "top class" football when dublin Franchise are playing Bolton and Wigan?

And what happens if they get relegated? Sell-out crowds at Lansdowne for the visit of Doncaster?

Facts at hand, well your paintentally ignoring my pro rugby example as one of a successful operation which has gone beyond just glamour ties. I don't want to see a Dublin team in the EPL, I want an All Ireland soccer league in this country with i reckon a cap of 10 teams in it. That could easily attract averages of 20k at it if it was done properly. Champions league football would be attainable with such a league and it would be more than viable imo.

Your are clearly defeatest and are an example of why pro soccer will never go far in this country with your attitude. The best you can do in this argument is basically criticise Irish people in general.

dreamers75

Jazzy wrote: »

aside from me and my mates getting pissed before during and after the match there was no reason to return watsoever

**** lads he has found the real secret to Friday Night football.

in fairness many a beer has got me tru a UCD game.

Pure Cork

themont85 wrote: »

I want an All Ireland soccer league in this country with i reckon a cap of 10 teams in it. That could easily attract averages of 20k at it if it was done properly. Champions league football would be attainable with such a league and it would be more than viable imo.

Once again:

Pure Cork wrote: »

There's already leagues like the MSL, LSL, etc. The LOI is the pinnacle of Irish football. Why would you get rid of clubs that have fans and history, and replace them with franchises? I could understand if you were suggesting restructuring the league, restructuring clubs, etc. Where would you have the franchises based? How many franchises would there be?

List of questions:
1. Why would you get rid of clubs that have fans and history and replace them with franchises?

2. Why wouldn't any of the current LOI clubs be capable of competing in this franchise league?

3. Why couldn't the current league and clubs be restructured?

4. Would IL clubs not be allowed in this AIL franchise league, but only new franchises?

5. Where would you have franchises based? Who would they represent?

6. How many times would teams play each other in this ten-team league?

7. Who is going to set up the franchises?

8. Where are the franchises going to play their games? Will there be new stadiums built? Where's the money going to come from for the stadiums? Will it be possible to get planning permission to build these stadiums?

9. Is it that simple to set up an AIL? Will both the FAI and IFA agree to it? What will happen to the number of European places?

themont85 wrote: »

Your are clearly defeatest and are an example of why pro soccer will never go far in this country with your attitude. The best you can do in this argument is basically criticise Irish people in general.

He has a realist attitude, not a defeatest attitude. I'm not thrilled about the idea of a franchise league, and I have asked a number of questions more than once on this thread, and I've yet to get satisfactory answers. Am I defeatest too? I haven't just criticised Irish people in general. It is a fact that Irish people prefer glamour sports like the EPL, the H Cup, GAA Championship games (rather than league games), hurlers over footballers (in Cork). I'm a big fan of the GAA, so I'm not being bitter criticising people who support sports that i've no interest in. Isn't part of the reason of setting up franchises to make football in this country seem more glamourous?