Your most Controversial Soccer opinions

eagle eye

ShoulderChip wrote: »

.
You make a good point if and only if you include the word british in your first sentence before the word black.

I don't see the need to make your argument in terms of british managers however.

Not British but English. The huge majority of the British black population reside in England. So English black is what I would be saying.

And not British managers, but English Managers. My point being that there are currently only 9 in the Premier League and when you look at the age profile of those managers, well you have to remember that the game was predominantly white english when the average aged English manager was plying his trade. I don't know the exact average age of English managers in the Premier League but I'd imagine its close to 50 when you consider that Redknapp is 61 and Big Sam is 54.

ditpoker

... sigh...

ok, can yourself and lloyd please relalize that managers of today predominantly were either not successful mainstream footballers or were at their peak in the early 90's or late 80's or before that. The demographic of footballers was very much very much more white than black (i dont have figures not do i pretent to, you seem to make it out that you know thats its 50/50 now or something and therefore there should be 50/50 black/white managers).

equally, cultural demographics suggest that black males live in less well off areas (again, this is an educated guess, if you wanna do a census check, be my guess), as such, the playing population of black footballers, in my opinion, as a general guess are less educated and less career driven that some white footballers. Alot of footballers (black and white) get thrown into youth acadamees in their teens and dont get a full education, and plan to be a "pro footballer" and retire in their thirties. My guess, and if im wrong im wrong, but my guess is that the majority of modern managers are well educated or come from educated backgrounds and are likely to be more career minded, be likely to be more willing to do coaching badges, training, etc, and as such, i would suggest that of the white/black players from the mid 80's to modern day, that the ratio of career minded white players with a drive to further their career and pursue management : career minded black players with a drive to further their career and pursue management is about equal to there only being 3 black managers thus far.

ShoulderChip

eagle eye wrote: »

Not British but English. The huge majority of the British black population reside in England. So English black is what I would be saying.

And not British managers, but English Managers. My point being that there are currently only 9 in the Premier League and when you look at the age profile of those managers, well you have to remember that the game was predominantly white english when the average aged English manager was plying his trade. I don't know the exact average age of English managers in the Premier League but I'd imagine its close to 50 when you consider that Redknapp is 61 and Big Sam is 54.

True I should have said english not british.

and you have a point about there just being 9 english managers,

but I would prefer to consider all european leagues and divisions.

Samurai

Trapattoni doesn't give a **** about Ireland and is in it solely for the money

ShoulderChip

ditpoker wrote: »

... sigh...

ok, can yourself and lloyd please relalize that managers of today predominantly were either not successful mainstream footballers or were at their peak in the early 90's or late 80's or before that. The demographic of footballers was very much very much more white than black (i dont have figures not do i pretent to, you seem to make it out that you know thats its 50/50 now or something and therefore there should be 50/50 black/white managers).

equally, cultural demographics suggest that black males live in less well off areas (again, this is an educated guess, if you wanna do a census check, be my guess), as such, the playing population of black footballers, in my opinion, as a general guess are less educated and less career driven that some white footballers. Alot of footballers (black and white) get thrown into youth acadamees in their teens and dont get a full education, and plan to be a "pro footballer" and retire in their thirties. My guess, and if im wrong im wrong, but my guess is that the majority of modern managers are well educated or come from educated backgrounds and are likely to be more career minded, be likely to be more willing to do coaching badges, training, etc, and as such, i would suggest that of the white/black players from the mid 80's to modern day, that the ratio of career minded white players with a drive to further their career and pursue management : career minded black players with a drive to further their career and pursue management is about equal to there only being 3 black managers thus far.

That is a great point actually, except for where you say that I seem to make out that the ratio is 50/50 I do not at all, at all.

I just said that the ratio appears to be slightly askew with the proportions of players, I did not factor in career aspirations as you have.

redout

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Three black premiership managers:

Ruud Gullit
Jean Tigana
Paul Ince

Now think of all the premiership managerial appointments made over 16 years and the percentage of total hires that amounts to. Now think about the percentage of premiership appearances in 16 years that have been made by black players.

And tell me there isn't an illogical disparity there.

Great, throw that at a judge and he would hardly take it as definitive.


Example: Say one in every 100 managers has true class regardless of race.

This is going back to demographics again. Now 80 white guys apply for a job. Now only 20 black managers apply. Less chance that their will be one of quality especially from a smaller pool but not impossible. If their is alot more white candidates applying for every position than black then their is a greater chance of a white manger being hired over a black manager. This is very easy to see and comprehend. It is the same with all jobs in that country CEO's, Chairman, Civil servants etc. like someone pointed out already. It is not discrimination. The cream always rise's to the top. If good enough they will get there regardless of race and remember its not just being black, they have to have quality also or they wont be hired. That goes for white managers also. This makes things even more difficult.

Nalz

Lucas and Mascherano are completely over-rated

Ibrahimovic is a flash in the pan youtube striker

Wayne Rooney is not and never will be world class

Darren Fletcher is a great player

Darren Gibson will make it

Puyol is one of the worst CBs Ive ever seen

Im starting to hate people who laugh at the fact I go to LOI games and look down on it. Call ourselves Irish and football fans? Lets improve the game on our doorstep eh people?

We're always gonna suffer because of the above point and I think its awfully awfully sad. I know that we're laughed at by certain British and other foreign people for supporting their clubs

I really hate this whole " I support United/Pool and I hate those other cnuts" carry on

BBCs commentary team are the biggest shower of eejits I ever come across.

Rodney Marsh was harshly sacked by Sky

Fergie should get rid of Ronaldo

Im starting to lose any little affection I had for Celtic. Come on the Bohs or any other LOI team!!!

I give Abramovich another 3 years max before he gets bored and leaves Chelsea in limbo

Steven Gerrard is the best central midfielder in the premiership (yes controversial if ya heard our lunch discussion on Thursday last)

Gallas is rubbish

Robinho isnt worth quarter his fee

Neither was Berbatov

Jaap Stam was the closest player Ive seen to the level of Paul McGrath in the premiership

Aston Villa will finish 4th

anonymous_joe

ShoulderChip wrote: »

That is a great point actually, except for where you say that I seem to make out that the ratio is 50/50 I do not at all, at all.

I just said that the ratio appears to be slightly askew with the proportions of players, I did not factor in career aspirations as you have.

You're right that they're undderated, but it's not as bad as you'd think I reckon.

I'm sure in 10 years time, there'll be more black managers, because then the lads from the 90s will be beginning to make it to the higher echelons as managers.

The points on education might also be worth examining unfortunately. One of the reasons black people do so 'badly' in terms of achievements is that poor backgrounds lead to poor education and a whole other host of social problems that hold back a higher proportion of people. That could apply to a lot of minorities. How many English managers are of an Irish background?

Of the current England team, Rooney and (I think) Gerrard have some Irish ancestry.

Karmafaerie

I love lamp.

Kevster

For the record, I'm not afraid to express ANY opinion that I have, but I've been thinking about these for a while now:

Firstly, there should be a salary cap, as there is in France.

Secondly, the amount of money awarded to each team according to their finishing position in each league should be reversed (i.e. - instead of the 1st-placed team getting the most, the last-placed team should ge it; and so-on).

Thirdly, there should be stricter and retrospective punishments (using video-replays of games) for players who cheat.

Fourthly, there should be a draft-like system, as in the NFL in the USA. This would do away with transfer fees (which is out of control currently). Using this system, the worst-placed team one year has the first draft pick the next year. Over time, this would make soccer a more competitive sport and would prevent clubs going bust.


Kevin

ShoulderChip

redout wrote: »

Great, throw that at a judge and he would hardly take it as definitive.


Example: Say one in every 100 managers has true class regardless of race.

This is going back to demographics again. Now 80 white guys apply for a job. Now only 20 black managers apply. Less chance that their will be one of quality especially from a smaller pool but not impossible. If their is alot more white candidates applying for every position than black then their is a greater chance of a white manger being hired over a black manager. This is very easy to see and comprehend. It is the same with all jobs in that country CEO's, Chairman, Civil servants etc. like someone pointed out already. It is not discrimination.

no one said it was
that post is irelevant,
we understand that concept yes, why are you deflecting though?

shane86

anonymous_joe wrote: »

. That could apply to a lot of minorities. How many English managers are of an Irish background?

tbh we are well represented. O`Neill, Kinnear, Keane (til recently), Keegan ditto, Bruce (his mother is Northern Irish, surprised his son qualifies for us so, unless she was born pre 1922 or something). 5 out of 20 isnt too bad tbh.

Of the current England team, Rooney and (I think) Gerrard have some Irish ancestry.

Rio too. Unsure of Anton, half brothers IIRC. Carragher (fmr England of course) is an Irish name Id reckon, dunno if he has a grandparent though.

Firstly, there should be a salary cap, as there is in France.

It hampers Ligue 1. Most of the better French players are abroad.

redout

ShoulderChip wrote: »

no one said it was
that post is irelevant,
we understand that concept yes, why are you deflecting though?

Deflecting ?

ShoulderChip

redout wrote: »

Deflecting ?

from what dude?

redout

ShoulderChip wrote: »

from what dude?

Ok brother I am lost. What are you saying ?

Jazzy

People take football too seriously

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

... sigh...

ok, can yourself and lloyd please relalize that managers of today predominantly were either not successful mainstream footballers or were at their peak in the early 90's or late 80's or before that. The demographic of footballers was very much very much more white than black (i dont have figures not do i pretent to, you seem to make it out that you know thats its 50/50 now or something and therefore there should be 50/50 black/white managers).

equally, cultural demographics suggest that black males live in less well off areas (again, this is an educated guess, if you wanna do a census check, be my guess), as such, the playing population of black footballers, in my opinion, as a general guess are less educated and less career driven that some white footballers. Alot of footballers (black and white) get thrown into youth acadamees in their teens and dont get a full education, and plan to be a "pro footballer" and retire in their thirties. My guess, and if im wrong im wrong, but my guess is that the majority of modern managers are well educated or come from educated backgrounds and are likely to be more career minded, be likely to be more willing to do coaching badges, training, etc, and as such, i would suggest that of the white/black players from the mid 80's to modern day, that the ratio of career minded white players with a drive to further their career and pursue management : career minded black players with a drive to further their career and pursue management is about equal to there only being 3 black managers thus far.

1) don't be hyperbolic. Neither of us suggested it is anywhere near 50 / 50 or that it should be 50 / 50;

2) Maybe black players amounted to less of a total percentage of the playing base in the 80's and early to mid nineties. But even if we accepted that such a timeframe is more relevant to managerial positions now than the current breakdown in the playing demographic; are you suggesting that only 0 - 5% of players in the old first division were black? Because up until last week we had one out of twenty managerial posts in the premiership occupied by a black manager (5%). And for a long time before Ince was appointed (since Tigana left Fulham in 2003) and now in the aftermath of his departure the number of minority filled managerial slots is zero of twenty or 0%;

3) The key point is that a significant majority of professional players (black or white) mostly enter academies and begin focusing on football between the ages of 14 - 16. And, as such, given that most footballers (black and white) don't finish school in the traditional sense or pursue third level courses - education levels in footbal as a whole (irrespective of race) are relatively lower than national averages.

Secondly, a general analysis that black people are more likely to come from a socially deprived area than white people will not be as relevant to football - given that white people who make it as professional footballers will likely come from unprivileged backgrounds relative to the white population as a whole.

Again, you have to analyze the professional playing base as distinct from the general population. Professional footballers of all creeds and colors live in a bubble from adolescence up until their retirement. This should serve to fudge default levels of educational opportunity and career ambition - certainly to some extent at least. So it therefore is perplexing as to why there is such a chasm between white and black players in terms of who leave the bubble and pursue and achieve managerial careers and those who don't bother.

Helix

dreamers75 wrote: »

wtf?


may you be stricken down with lots of ****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRRt8Pwv3cY

seriously lot of ****.

lol

its rubbish and it gets in the way of proper football

Hank Scorpio

dunphy is the best pundit in the country by miles

messi walks over ronaldo any day of the week

liverpool are just lucky so far to be top of the league

torres is too good for liverpool

gerrard would have walked if it wasnt for the death threats

martin o neill is the best manager in the premiership

40% of PL players are there solely for the money

Wenger should be remembered for his invinicbles instead of being booed

rooney needs to more consistent

ronaldo is seriously overrated

shane86

Helix wrote: »

lol

its rubbish and it gets in the way of proper football

Please. 3 odd weeks of Euro 2008 were infinitely more important and more exciting than 3 years of EPL. I honestly fail to see how any football fan could rate foreign domestic football above games like the Dutch demolishing Italy*, or the Turks 3 in a row comebacks. In terms of edge of the seat tension and excitement domestic leagues are a country mile behind the CL, let alone international tournaments.


*: the fact I had 20 on the Dutch at 12/1 to win the title has nothing to do with it :P

LuckyLloyd

shane86 wrote: »

Please. 3 odd weeks of Euro 2008 were infinitely more important and more exciting than 3 years of EPL. I honestly fail to see how any football fan could rate foreign domestic football above games like the Dutch demolishing Italy, or the Turks 3 in a row comebacks. In terms of edge of the seat tension and excitement domestic leagues are a country mile behind the CL, let alone international tournaments.

Yup. Agree with all of this.

eagle eye

Oh yeah and before I forget.........couple of other ones.

Rafa Benitez is the worst game reader I've ever seen manage in the Premier League. I also think he is a terrible manager and he is lucky to have such a tolerant boardroom at Liverpool, I'd have had him out the door last season.

Torres was a better player before he met Benitez.

I think all Liverpool forwards and wide players look confused on the pitch.

If soccer was like American football, I'd certainly hire him as my defensive co-ordinator.

ditpoker

Kevster wrote: »

Firstly, there should be a salary cap, as there is in France.

Secondly, the amount of money awarded to each team according to their finishing position in each league should be reversed (i.e. - instead of the 1st-placed team getting the most, the last-placed team should ge it; and so-on).

shane86 wrote: »

It hampers Ligue 1. Most of the better French players are abroad.

I would LOVE a salary cap across football, a FIFA directive so to speak, across all countries. Ligue 1 is hampered by it as it still has to compete internationally, if it was international it would be amazing.

The point about reversing prize revenue is superb, and is something they should look at it formula 1 actually, i.e reversing the grid or something. It would make football far more interesting too.

ditpoker

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh yeah and before I forget.........couple of other ones.

Rafa Benitez is the worst game reader I've ever seen manage in the Premier League. I also think he is a terrible manager and he is lucky to have such a tolerant boardroom at Liverpool, I'd have had him out the door last season.

Torres was a better player before he met Benitez.

I think all Liverpool forwards and wide players look confused on the pitch.

If soccer was like American football, I'd certainly hire him as my defensive co-ordinator.

liverpool play liverpool's game superbly. it is benitez' game, its how valencia played under him too. it is VERY effective and will see liverpool go close this season and probably pick up silverware somewhere in the next 48 months... it is defensively orientated and terrible to play against, as i said , it is incredibly effective, but MY GOD it kills the heart and soul of football, liverpool's style is very much a lack of style, it ... is... bori..zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Daysha

I never understood the hype over Paul Scholes.

anonymous_joe

shane86 wrote: »

tbh we are well represented. O`Neill, Kinnear, Keane (til recently), Keegan ditto, Bruce (his mother is Northern Irish, surprised his son qualifies for us so, unless she was born pre 1922 or something). 5 out of 20 isnt too bad tbh.



Rio too. Unsure of Anton, half brothers IIRC. Carragher (fmr England of course) is an Irish name Id reckon, dunno if he has a grandparent though.




It hampers Ligue 1. Most of the better French players are abroad.

I didn't say Irish managers, I said English managers of Irish descent.

O'Neill is from Norn Iron, Keane and Kinnear are from the Republic. So that'd be 2 out of 9 (?) English managers. Which is actually pretty impressive. Take that Anglo-Carribea! :P But seriously, you'd wonder why they're not more prevalent in management...

Well half of Manchester and Liverpool would be of Irish descent. I didn't mention Carragher because he left the English team. We're pretty well represented really.

eagle eye

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I didn't say Irish managers, I said English managers of Irish descent.

O'Neill is from Norn Iron, Keane and Kinnear are from the Republic. So that'd be 2 out of 9 (?) English managers. Which is actually pretty impressive. Take that Anglo-Carribea! :P But seriously, you'd wonder why they're not more prevalent in management...

Well half of Manchester and Liverpool would be of Irish descent. I didn't mention Carragher because he left the English team. We're pretty well represented really.

No it would not, there are 9 English Managers in the league, then you have 1 French, 1 Spanish, 2 Irish, 1 Italian, 1 Brazilian, 2 Welsh and 3 Scots.

Xavi6

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I love lamp.

I hate that movie

_blank_

I have no problem posting my opinions on this MB, controversial or not.

Everyone already knows them.

And I don't want to get banned again.

Eirebear

Having had the pleasure of seeing Gazza ply his trade at Ibrox i can only say that those who think he was over rated have their head firmly stuck up their arse.

As for my controversial opinions

Not all Rangers supporters are evil

Liverpool (by taking advantage of UEFA's silly rules) have undermined the Champions League.

Ronan|Raven

There should be different scoring zones on the pitch and the game split into numerous 10 minute segments and games should last 3 hours with teams allowed to use upto 45 players per game.

Karmafaerie

Eirebear wrote: »

Liverpool (by taking advantage of UEFA's silly rules) have undermined the Champions League.

Helix

shane86 wrote: »

Please. 3 odd weeks of Euro 2008 were infinitely more important and more exciting than 3 years of EPL. I honestly fail to see how any football fan could rate foreign domestic football above games like the Dutch demolishing Italy*, or the Turks 3 in a row comebacks. In terms of edge of the seat tension and excitement domestic leagues are a country mile behind the CL, let alone international tournaments.

i rate the league of ireland above international football, never mind any foreign leagues. the international game is a complete non event for me

_blank_

International football should be done away with.

The World Club Cup should be expanded and played at a proper time of the year.

If International Football is to be continued, then ONLY people BORN IN THE COUNTRY should be allowed to represent that country. This business of registering Brazilians to play for Poland HAS to stop. This business of registering Englishmen, Scots to play for Ireland HAS to stop.

It's a joke.

Samurai

Rewind 18 years and none of you would be talking of abolishing international football, its purely because Ireland have been going through a terrible patch since 2002

_blank_

Samurai wrote: »

Rewind 18 years and none of you would be talking of abolishing international football, its purely because Ireland have been going through a terrible patch since 2002

No, it's clear that the top players don't give a crap about it anymore.

Samurai

Des wrote: »

No, it's clear that the top players don't give a crap about it anymore.

Did you not watch euro 2008?!

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

No, it's clear that the top players don't give a crap about it anymore.

Tell that to the Spanish squad that won Euro 2008. How it 'clear' anyway?

Btw, weren't you one of the biggest fans of that particular tournament? And now you're calling for an end to international football?

_blank_

I GuanYin wrote: »

Btw, weren't you one of the biggest fans of that particular tournament? And now you're calling for an end to international football?

Yes, I do like The Euro Championship.

In a general sense though, I absolutely hate international football. It's a waste of time.

Helix

Samurai wrote: »

Rewind 18 years and none of you would be talking of abolishing international football, its purely because Ireland have been going through a terrible patch since 2002

the state of the irish team has nothing to do with it, ive never "got" international football. the weekly stuff is where its at

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Yes, I do like The Euro Championship.

In a general sense though, I absolutely hate international football. It's a waste of time.

So if it's a 'waste of time' then how do you propose the participants of those great Euros be decided upon?

_blank_

I GuanYin wrote: »

So if it's a 'waste of time' then how do you propose the participants of those great Euros be decided upon?

It shouldn't even exist.

Yes, I enjoy watching it, but it should be done away with completely.

No qualifications. No tournaments. No "friendlies".

Nada.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

It shouldn't even exist.

Yes, I enjoy watching it, but it should be done away with completely.

No qualifications. No tournaments. No "friendlies".

Nada.

Why not?

_blank_

I GuanYin wrote: »

Why not?

It's, in a general sense, shít.

Yes, there are certain teams who play nice football.

But it's not as nice as top level club football.

I'd rather a club tournament than a international tournament every second summer.

I'd rather see European Clubs meet South American Clubs on a more regular basis to determine the best club side in the world.

herbieflowers

Des wrote: »

It's, in a general sense, shít.

I'd rather see European Clubs meet South American Clubs on a more regular basis to determine the best club side in the world.

Like the intensely competitive World Club Cup?

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

It's, in a general sense, shít.

Yes, there are certain teams who play nice football.

But it's not as nice as top level club football.

I'd rather a club tournament than a international tournament every second summer.

I'd rather see European Clubs meet South American Clubs on a more regular basis to determine the best club side in the world.

There's room for both imo if the calendar is managed correctly.

Your point about top players not caring is rubbish btw. They may not give a damen about friendlies but when it comes to big stuff they're all up for it.

Unearthly

Des wrote: »

I'd rather see European Clubs meet South American Clubs on a more regular basis to determine the best club side in the world.

The balance between the sides wouldn't be as competitive. The majority of the best south american players now play for european teams, same with Africa etc

_blank_

I GuanYin wrote: »

Your point about top players not caring is rubbish btw. They may not give a damen about friendlies but when it comes to big stuff they're all up for it.

Those who play, yes.

More and more players are going to start retiring early from the international game.

I guarantee that.

Guarantee it.

Diddler82

League Cup and FA Cup in England should be abolished....they are absolute sh*te and get in the way of the League.

For some reason Manchester Utd supporters seem to be the biggest ars3holes and the most ungracious in defeat...thats more of a personal opinion/experience though maybe.

Ireland's Domestic Football is a joke and despite what anyone tries to do because of Gaelic Games in will never prosper and will always be a Donkey Derby league.

Scottish League is almost as bad as the Irish League

Liverpool would be a better team without Gerrard (I am a Liverpool Supported) because they would get out of this Gerrard = Plan A, B & C mentality.

Clubs who hire a Manager and sack him in the first year should be deducted points because of their lack of patience after making an appointment.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Those who play, yes.

More and more players are going to start retiring early from the international game.

I guarantee that.

Guarantee it.

But is that due to not caring or the poor planning of fixtures by FIFA that leads to congestion?