DJs - Musicians or Glorified playlists

MikeHoncho

This thread is trolltastic. So let me get this straight.. Some ****ehawk who can bash out a few chords on a guitar is more of a musician than someone like DJ Yoda or Cut Chemist? Whoever said being a musician was about creating original music? Id say most people who consider themselves musicians never actually create anything new themselves they just play other peoples music anyway.

Naked Lepper

tbh a dj is as much a musician as any other rock star or things

for example frank kennedy (hot fm dj) would have the same skill to control a crowd as say for example roger waters or the guys in pink floyd would.

its just a different medium to control the crowd.


hard house and hard trance is the best music there is, obviously - all the old rock like led zeppelin and dire straits is just for rich old white losers with too much money and bottles of old wine

Dongasaurus

MikeHoncho wrote: »

This thread is trolltastic. So let me get this straight.. Some ****ehawk who can bash out a few chords on a guitar is more of a musician than someone like DJ Yoda or Cut Chemist? Whoever said being a musician was about creating original music? Id say most people who consider themselves musicians never actually create anything new themselves they just play other peoples music anyway.

No one is saying that at all! Of course Yoda, Cut Chemist, rjd2 are musicians. They create music from samples and there own original music. We were (well at least I was) discussing if people actual plain old djs were musicians.

ironclaw

Dj's are skilled. Skilled in music. Most would have an expertise beyond the normal person in there genre. Sadly most peoples version of a DJ is that bloke that plays at Weddings.

A real Dj, e.g. a club dj, is a musician. They play music. If you give won't give credit to someone for playing music that isn't theirs then stop quoting bands. Its called a cover, and playing playlists is a DJ's verison of a cover. When they blend and mix thats their "original" be it only to aid a transition etc.

So yes, I believe a good, skilled and noteworthy Dj is a musician.

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Dj's are skilled. Skilled in music. Most would have an expertise beyond the normal person in there genre. Sadly most peoples version of a DJ is that bloke that plays at Weddings.

A real Dj, e.g. a club dj, is a musician. They play music. If you give won't give credit to someone for playing music that isn't theirs then stop quoting bands. Its called a cover, and playing playlists is a DJ's verison of a cover. When they blend and mix thats their "original" be it only to aid a transition etc.

So yes, I believe a good, skilled and noteworthy Dj is a musician.

nobodys view of the dj on here is the wedding dj.we all know what djing is.were not discussing it elsewhere but here so we havent got a delude sense of what a dj is.wish people would stop saying that in threads being discussed on here

Naked Lepper

scooter are also djs and theyre better than any other musicians, theyre on top of their game big time

nothing can compare to mixing records at the same time, bet two bands cudnt play different songs at da same time and make it sound goode

Neurojazz

DJ = Performance Artist.

Musician = person who makes music (Writer) or someone who performs an already written peice (a performing artist)

Two totally different worlds, the confusion being when those 2 records are overlapping making a third element or a scratch DJ doing his thing (which is closer to a writer making something new)

That's my take.

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

nobodys view of the dj on here is the wedding dj.we all know what djing is.were not discussing it elsewhere but here so we havent got a delude sense of what a dj is.wish people would stop saying that in threads being discussed on here

Point taken. I DJ anyways. Was talking to everyone else. It takes far more skill to use decks than play guitar. You have to do so much more. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument not everyone has the mind of a DJ. Its a higher skill set. I'm not saying I have "it" but I would regard the best DJ's out there in a higher light that some washed up 1960's rock band.

seannash

Naked Lepper wrote: »

scooter are also djs and theyre better than any other musicians, theyre on top of their game big time

nothing can compare to mixing records at the same time, bet two bands cudnt play different songs at da same time and make it sound goode

this has to be a piss take right?
your saying scooter are great djs who are top of there game.
this has to be the most musically uneducated response ive read on hear.

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

this has to be a piss take right?
your saying scooter are great djs who are top of there game.
this has to be the most musically uneducated response ive read on hear.

Unless your better, or on the top 100 DJ's of all time, I think its time you put the keyboard down...

http://soundcloud.com/seannash VS Scooter

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Point taken. I DJ anyways. Was talking to everyone else. It takes far more skill to use decks than play guitar. You have to do so much more. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument not everyone has the mind of a DJ. Its a higher skill set. I'm not saying I have "it" but I would regard the best DJ's out there in a higher light that some washed up 1960's rock band.

well your not comparing like with like,you say the greatest guitar player isnt as good as the best dj in the world(thats what your implying)
its like saying jimi hendrix isnt as good as sasha.it totally ridiculous.of course hendrix is a better musician.
and anyone can learn to dj too.the argument isnt even what the original topic is about.
do you seriously think djing is hard?honestly?theres nothing to it.the technical aspect isnt really difficult.
think about what you wrote,you would regard a dj in higher light than someone like kurt cobain,clapton or any other gifted musician.

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless your better, or on the top 100 DJ's of all time, I think its time you put the keyboard down...

so your saying a band cant have there drummer play a different drum rhythm and have there bass player play a different bassline and the singer can sing the same lyrics to a song.what exactly are djs doing that a band cant duplicate.by your reckoning we cant mix 2 rock songs together coz it cant be done right?****ing ridiculous:D:D

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Unless your better, or on the top 100 DJ's of all time, I think its time you put the keyboard down...

http://soundcloud.com/seannash VS Scooter

hmm just curious as to why your linking my soundcloud account mate?:rolleyes:

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

think about what you wrote,you would regard a dj in higher light than someone like kurt cobain,clapton or any other gifted musician.

Yes, because to me they arn't good. They don't do it for me. No one in the world can tell me or anyone else for that matter who is a good musician. Its personal preference, personal choice. Your as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And for me, a DJ is a musician.

If decks ain't a instrument then neither is a Roland, a Casio or a Yamaha Keyboard....

your saying scooter are great djs who are top of there game.... musically uneducated response....

linking my soundcloud account mate?

I'm gonna leave the masses to figure that one...

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Yes, because to me they arn't good. They don't do it for me. No one in the world can tell me or anyone else for that matter who is a good musician. Its personal preference, personal choice. Your as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And for me, a DJ is a musician.

If decks ain't a instrument then neither is a Roland, a Casio or a Yamaha Keyboard....

ha ha ha ha please just stop now,if your not going to make intelligent arguements just stop.
by your logic a car stereo,ipod,radio is a musical instrument.:D:D:D

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm gonna leave the masses to figure that one...

what are you trying to say,im not as good as scooter?
please show me where i said i was?
if your gonna call me out for my productions at least be prepared to face similar scrutiny.
so where your releases on beatport then?

ironclaw

They don't do it for me. To me, you arn't a good musician. However, to a mate of mine, there quite good (And fair play on that one). Its more so to aid the arguement that a persons taste and definition of a musician vary. Like to build those tracks you took samples that may or may not have been yours. So in essence you did / didn't create them. However, as some have already said, some DJ's make there own and create there own tracks by making there own samples.

My core belief is that DJ's are musicians. While they may not produce there own tracks they do perform, they take scrutiny, they entertain, they have the knowledge, they use a skill in music. And to me thats a muscian.

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

They don't do it for me. To me, you arn't a good musician. However, to a mate of mine, there quite good (And fair play on that one). Its more so to aid the arguement that a persons taste and definition of a musician vary. Like to build those tracks you took samples that may or may not have been yours. So in essence you did / didn't create them. However, as some have already said, some DJ's make there own and create there own tracks by making there own samples.

My core belief is that DJ's are musicians. While they may not produce there own tracks they do perform, they take scrutiny, they entertain, they have the knowledge, they use a skill in music. And to me thats a muscian.

ha ha ha ha ha,
first off when did i claim to be a musician?
2nd.i didnt use any samples.all the melodys and sounds i created from scratch from synths.so you drew your conclusions before finding out the facts.the tracks are 100% mine.
so you can stop linking my page now and apologise for categorising me unfairly.
and also im glad that i dont appeal to someone who thinks scooter is a musical genius.some people like my music,some dont but to throw stones at me when your not doing or have any clue about anything close to what im doing is ridiculous.
using samples ha ha ha ha ha,run along man before you out do yourself with another brilliant comment like that one

BaZmO*

ironclaw wrote: »

It takes far more skill to use decks than play guitar. You have to do so much more. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument not everyone has the mind of a DJ. Its a higher skill set.

Have you tried both?
I have, and Djing is way easier. If you can clap your hands in rhythm to a song you can DJ.

Once you learn to Beatmix the main skill of a DJ is track selection.
I've seen plenty of DJs down through the years that can Beatmix fine but have often cleared a dancefloor through their shocking track selection.

Having said that though, beatmixing and good track selection doesn't make you a musician.

jonny68

PMSL @ this thread, gotta be a pisstake surely.:pac::D

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

first off when did i claim to be a musician?

Never implied you were. You make tracks so I presume you would consider yourself one.

.so you drew your conclusions before finding out the facts.the tracks are 100% mine.

If you read above, I allowed for both scenarios. I never implied they weren't yours

apologise for categorising me unfairly.

Again where did I categorise you?

im glad that i dont appeal to someone who thinks scooter is a musical genius.

Where did I say he had genius? He has appeal and yes, I like a limited range of his older material. He sells out stadiums, do you?

when your not doing or have any clue about anything close to what im doing is ridiculous.

No comment. You don't know me and just because I don't use Beatport or SoundCloud doesn't mean I don't have a clue.

Finally, I would ask that you wouldn't be so arogant towards others. I try not be. People can read and it will do nothing for you, to your advantage, in the long run.

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

Never implied you were. You make tracks so I presume you would consider yourself one.



If you read above, I allowed for both scenarios. I never implied they weren't yours


Again where did I categorise you?



Where did I say he had genius? He has appeal and yes, I like a limited range of his older material. He sells out stadiums, do you?



No comment. You don't know me and just because I don't use Beatport or SoundCloud doesn't mean I don't have a clue.

Finally, I would ask that you wouldn't be so arogant towards others. I try not be. People can read and it will do nothing for you, to your advantage, in the long run.

arrogant,im far from arrogant.i never claimed to be a musician,i didnt put myself on a pedestal.so show me where im arrogant.
by the way beatport is a download site,you having no clue meant that you dont know anything about my productions.as for scooter selling out stadiums,thats well and good but to use him as a basis for an argument about djs being musicians is foolish at best.
no i havent sold out stadiums but in fairness i never implied i could or ever will.
your right though, i dont know you but i didnt try take the piss out of your work or link your soundcloud page(if you had one) in a effort to have people laugh or call them ****.i actually couldnt give a **** what you think of my tracks
you started the personal attack,you decided to imply that what i was at was **** yet you didnt have anything of yours to compare it to.
also,if i ever do anything in dance music itll be because of what i do not what i say or how i act on a forum so people reading this can think what they like.
so lets go through the answers you gave.

you presiuumed i consider myself a musician.
you implied that i sampled all my material.yes you allowed for both situations but you still put it in there right in the hope that i did use samples
you categorised me coz you thought that i used sampled material

if you look around mate theres not many people agreeing with you on your views.does that make you wrong,maybe not but your not putting forward a convincing argument.ill bet ive more experience at djing and production.does that make my point more valid,no, but i have put forward good points aside form my personal opinion on the matter.
even though any of the musicians i listed dont do it for you,you still cant deny they were great musicians and to put djs on the same pedestel is completely ridiculous

seannash

and just to point out again,you decided to link my page in an effort to take the piss out of me.
now is that arrogant or not?:D:D:D

jtsuited

lol at the trolling of ironclaw.

do not argue with someone who is clearly unfamiliar with beatport. this thread is the perfect troll feeding ground.

PurpleBerry

A simple way to get around this is for DJs to also learn how to play another instrument. Guitar, keyboard, flute even.

francois

Neesa wrote: »

A simple way to get around this is for DJs to also learn how to play another instrument. Guitar, keyboard, flute even.

Dj's are always playing with their flutes

Bluscreendream

My two cents for what it's worth. There are a handful of DJs that I would say are the exception (DJ Shadow et al) which without doubt are definitely talented, have great technical ability and have great musical vision and would be more talented that some Paddy Casey wannabe strumming his little mediocre heart out in Whelans on a Tuesday night.

In saying that I would say that most DJs are mostly 'jack the lads' and chancers (search your feelings you know it be true) :rolleyes: whose real motivations for DJing would be for popularity reasons and basically attracting chicks. I knew one lad who tried to learn guitar and failed miserably. Moved on to learning the keyboard and also failed there, after a few weeks he was shelling out cash for decks. Basically the bloke didn't have a musical cell in his body and the vast majority of DJs would also share this deficiency.

Scubadevils

francois wrote: »

Dj's are always playing with their flutes

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ironclaw wrote: »

Point taken. I DJ anyways. Was talking to everyone else. It takes far more skill to use decks than play guitar. You have to do so much more. Anyone could learn to play a musical instrument not everyone has the mind of a DJ. Its a higher skill set. I'm not saying I have "it" but I would regard the best DJ's out there in a higher light that some washed up 1960's rock band.

seriously - if you think that using record decks is harder than playing good guitar you are in a unique world. any dude can "play" *cough* a turntable .


"mind of a dj " please - the reason DJ'S use turntables is because most of them cannot PLAY A REAL ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT WELL.

and what are you on about 1960s rock bands for ?
there are musicians today who blow dj's off the stage with one chord.

lets see a dj sit at a piano , or guitar , or a sax and play an emotional tune , or improvise a tune on the spot - without a power supply ?

( and most electronic musicians play keyboards , by the way - ie piano
before you start that one again )

dj's are not musicians - they are a type of music producer if you will
but they are not musicians .

and yes a bodrahn player is a musician - a bodhran player - like a drummer has to be able to follow the chord sequance the timing and even the pitches
of an irish tune .

a bodhran player is a million times more a musician then a DJ

ive seen all those top DJ's and scratch guys , and its nothing a good drummer coudlnt do ( probably better ) with a few drum pads and a samples .

this guy is musician - doing a far better job than any dj -playing pads and samples from drum pad triggers - no record decks needed - just physical musical talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Chr79JnyHs

and playing normal drums -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrEw3uI6NFc&feature=related



scenario ;

a shed in the middle of no where
in the corner is piano / acoustic guitar and a dj setup and no power.

who do you think is going to make the music in this shed - a dj ???

I think not

Scubadevils

Its a stupid comparison and makes no real sense. Its like saying I'm a better rugby player than you are at soccer.

Two different skills in the first place but to be good at either, you do need an ear for music.

L1011

DaDumTish wrote: »

lets see a dj sit at a piano , or guitar , or a sax and play an emotional tune , or improvise a tune on the spot - without a power supply ?

Give me the piano and I will.


Lets see a piano player stand at a set of CDJ1000s, a DJM800, 200 CDs and keep a crowd of 1,000 interested for half an hour.

Unless he's trained/capable of both (I can play the piano, obviously not every DJ is going to be able to) he won't be able to. He might be able to crossfade a few tracks, but a non-piano playing DJ might be able to pick out "Chopsticks" quite easily.

Entirely pointless comparison. Do you expect a Ryanair pilot to be able to captain a Stena HSS? Both are capble of controlling multi-million quid mass transit vehicles, but not each others.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

if you play piano - you are a musician

if you play piano and can DJ - you are a musician

if you can dj - but not play an instrument - you are a dj - not a musician

Entec

DaDumTish wrote: »

if you play piano - you are a musician

if you play piano and can DJ - you are a musician

if you can dj - but not play an instrument - you are a dj - not a musician

simple as that , end of disscusion! this should of been realised back at the start of the thread

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

and just to point out again,you decided to link my page in an effort to take the piss out of me.

That wasn't the intent, I can assure you.

Anyways, its just my personal opinion about Dj's & Muscians at the end of the day. Take it as you will, I ain't going to argue it.

seannash

ironclaw wrote: »

That wasn't the intent, I can assure you.

Anyways, its just my personal opinion about Dj's & Muscians at the end of the day. Take it as you will, I ain't going to argue it.

so what was the intent?:P

ironclaw

seannash wrote: »

so what was the intent?

Merely to aid the debate about personal preference to music. Nothing more. I amn't in the business of flaming anothers musical ability. If you read the post fully, you would have seen that plus a compliment.

....However, to a mate of mine, there quite good (And fair play on that one)...

Regards & Adieu....

Samba

Helix

a straight up 2 decks and a mixer dj is not a musician no

but i think the line is going to be blurred an awful lot in coming years

Helix

DaDumTish wrote: »

lets see a dj sit at a piano , or guitar , or a sax and play an emotional tune , or improvise a tune on the spot - without a power supply ?

youre assuming, for some utterly bizarre reason, that djs cannot be classically trained on traditional instruments. why exactly is that?

im sure a goodly amount of them are not, no doubt about it, but to categorically state that not a single one is, is nothing short of ridiculous

these days most djs are producers, and a hefty amount of producers have at least some form of classical training, and for those who dont, there would be VERY few who wouldnt be able to knock out a tune on a piano

SteveDon

djs are not musicians, its a very easy skill which has no comparison to learning a musical instrument.

I had played guitar for years before starting to produce electronic music, I was a bit nervous about stepping into djing but after a few days i had basically got the hang of it, beatmatching is made out to be so hard when you are starting out but its really so easy if you have any rhythm whatsoever, its not like trying to learn 8 finger tapping on guitar or anything. Its very easy to be good at djing its just hard to be very good.

Unless you are making your own sounds playing your own notes you cant be called a musicians. Its like me eating a bacon sandwich and calling myself a butcher.

There is definitely talent involved in building a set and making it just the way the crowd wants etc, it may be musical talent but its a farcry to call yourself a musician for doing that.

This is the reason why most djs are producers aswell these days, people that dont produce and dj are a dying trend.

L1011

Beatmatching is only one, tiny part of DJing - it however is the main component of pub DJing which is what people on this thread appear to be obsessed with assuming is the only kind...

ironclaw

MYOB wrote: »

Beatmatching is only one, tiny part of DJing - it however is the main component of pub DJing which is what people on this thread appear to be obsessed with assuming is the only kind...

+1

SteveDon

not trying to say it is the only skill, its just that the art of djing, if you will, is quite a bit different to the actual music making process, sure there are some skills that a talented dj may have like being able to build a set, being able to read a crowd, using efx, looping and re-editing etc. But i dont think these skills determine musicianship.

I think that it might be taken the wrong way by saying a dj is not a musician, its not derograty to say, its just that the art of djing is an art form in itself.

Helix

MYOB wrote: »

Beatmatching is only one, tiny part of DJing - it however is the main component of pub DJing which is what people on this thread appear to be obsessed with assuming is the only kind...

that is certainly true, however what you neglect to mention is that the most important part of djing is track selection, which you need absolutely zero practical musical capabilities to be good at

yes, you need a good ear. and yes you need to know how to read a crowd, however neither of these are what the thread is about

the question is whether djs are musicians, so lets look at the definition of a musician:

musician

noun
1. someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession)
2. artist who composes or conducts music as a profession

now, supportive as i am about the qualities of djs, at the end of the day they are playing other peoples music, with a severely limited scope of ability to affect the source material

this is assuming, of course, that the dj in question does not produce and does not know how to play, or write for, any instruments

bearing that last part in mind, i do however think that its equally as accurate to say that car drivers are not musicians, as it is to say that djs are not

seannash

MYOB wrote: »

Beatmatching is only one, tiny part of DJing - it however is the main component of pub DJing which is what people on this thread appear to be obsessed with assuming is the only kind...

everybody on this forum knows what djing is.EVERYONE!!
its called a dance & electronic & djing forum.
do you seriously think we are all pub djs on here or have never seen a real dj in action.

L1011

seannash wrote: »

everybody on this forum knows what djing is.EVERYONE!!
its called a dance & electronic & djing forum.
do you seriously think we are all pub djs on here or have never seen a real dj in action.

Based off responses to this thread so far, that applies for most of the people on here. Theres people replying in this thread who have never posted on this forum before or after.