Animal & pet issues.

Whispered

I recently got an infraction for swearing - that is for typing "bast**ds" in the animal & pet forum.

I got this infraction from a moderator who on one occasion, (having been informed of a scam artist who poses as a rescue and may be trying to sell animals on boards) posted, on the main forum, that she does not care what people do via pm. Selling animals is not allowed but people can do what they like via pm and she does not want to hear any more about it. She said this despite the charter clearly saying money exchange for animals is not allowed full stop.

Then recently a post selling animal equipment was posted, which was reported and she posted in that thread that she would "prefer if the post was made in adverts" yet left the post there?

Now if it is in the charter that swearing is not allowed (I cannot find it btw) and IF replacing 1/4 of a word with ** is STILL swearing then fair enough, but I cannot see how a mod, the same mod, can go against the charter and allow others to do so, while infracting me for something I'm not even sure warrents one?

I realise it's not a ban and only an infraction and have no proplem following the rules of the charter, but would like to think the charter would be enforced consistently, instead of every now and again.

Our man in Havana

Animals is a family forum - therefore I do not allow swearing of any kind - so *** etc are not ON!

As for the pm's forgive me I am not Derek Accora - therefore I am not psychic! So I can not see what folks fo via pm! Only the site owner can read pm's - I can only react to what is in the forum & or if members send me nasty pm's they have received - in which case I can refer the matter to a member of the admin team (I am a lowley mod not god!)

Some one has removed my thread in regards to the swearing - but this not the first time I have told you off for swearing so - consider this your last warning - swear again & I will ban you! Take it up with admin if you are unhappy!

I ban members who advertise LIVE REAL ANIMALS for sale - a dog trailer is not - I repeat NOT an animal! It should be posted in adverts.ie - I can not move a thread to this forum so left the post for the OP to read what I had said.

Helena I am but 1 lovely woman who gets tired - has to work hard & can not spend all day online - I do the best I can as do the other mods & we do not appreciate back seat moderating!

Merry Christmas tho - tis the season to be jolly - fa la la la la! Roll on 2009!

Whispered

Back seat modding? Where please?

I am happy to accept an infraction for "swearing", I don't remember you warning me about it before however. I'm just confused as to why you sometimes decide to enforce the rules and sometimes you don't.

As the charter says "no animals or EQUIPMENT can be sold" then selling a trailer is against the charter? I asked if maybe the charter could be updated to truly reflect what is and isn't allowed. I think this is fair enough? As in animals for rehoming, you have left there despite the charter saying it's not allowed, equipment was left there, again charter saying it's not allowed. Obviously you can put in the charter whatever you like, but it's very confusing to have things in it then the mod of the forum going against the charter.

Nerin

Bond-007 wrote: »

Animals is a family forum - therefore I do not allow swearing of any kind - so *** etc are not ON!

As for the pm's forgive me I am not Derek Accora - therefore I am not psychic! So I can not see what folks fo via pm! Only the site owner can read pm's - I can only react to what is in the forum & or if members send me nasty pm's they have received - in which case I can refer the matter to a member of the admin team (I am a lowley mod not god!)

Some one has removed my thread in regards to the swearing - but this not the first time I have told you off for swearing so - consider this your last warning - swear again & I will ban you! Take it up with admin if you are unhappy!

I ban members who advertise LIVE REAL ANIMALS for sale - a dog trailer is not - I repeat NOT an animal! It should be posted in adverts.ie - I can not move a thread to this forum so left the post for the OP to read what I had said.

Helena I am but 1 lovely woman who gets tired - has to work hard & can not spend all day online - I do the best I can as do the other mods & we do not appreciate back seat moderating!

Merry Christmas tho - tis the season to be jolly - fa la la la la! Roll on 2009!

Hurray for the xmas spirit :rolleyes:

Red Sleeping Beauty

Didn't know Bond was a lady.

Asterisks aren't/isn't swearing

Karoma

It isn't? You mind me calling you a ****** you *****ing sack of *** then.
(I don't actually think you are, I'm just making a point...somewhere...yeah,context (or something).)


Helena.ryan: I really can't be arsed with the other mostly-irrelevant stuff you posted, I'll just address your infraction: You got off lightly. Since you cannot be arsed linking, here's the post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58343554&postcount=15
You not only clearly implied unnecessary profanity (If you want to be anal about people), you did so while being a bigot.

Charters are not, as you might believe, rule books. They're guide books so that everyone has a fair idea where they stand. As such, they are not enforced to the letter but rather to the spirit. I am satisfied the Bond-007 has followed and enforced the charter in each case in keeping with the spirit of the forum and its charter.

Whispered

Karoma wrote: »

It isn't? You mind me calling you a ****** you *****ing sack of *** then.
(I don't actually think you are, I'm just making a point...somewhere...yeah,context (or something).)


Helena.ryan: I really can't be arsed with the other mostly-irrelevant stuff you posted, I'll just address your infraction: You got off lightly. Since you cannot be arsed linking, here's the post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58343554&postcount=15
You not only clearly implied unnecessary profanity (If you want to be anal about people), you did so while being a bigot.

Charters are not, as you might believe, rule books. They're guide books so that everyone has a fair idea where they stand. As such, they are not enforced to the letter but rather to the spirit. I am satisfied the Bond-007 has followed and enforced the charter in each case in keeping with the spirit of the forum and its charter.

Can't be arsed? I would have only I can't find the thread, the link you posted goes nowhere, as did the one in the PM I got, as I said, I totally accept an infraction for swearing, but I cannot see why a mod would allow other things against the charter on a very regular basis and then infract someone for something which was not actually in the charter (until it was changed after the infraction was given) for example, posts advocating cruelty, posts selling equipment etc.

I do not have a fair idea where I stand when this moderator allows other posters to swear, and go totally against the charter, as for calling me a bigot, well if THAT is why the infraction was given, it should have been said, plus I stand by what I say and it has been said many many times before on the forum by people who know what they are on about.

(for people who wish to know what biggotry I am guilty of, I said that travellers are "insert swear here" to their dogs, in a thread about how they killed horses during a fued, there are also many posts where dogs go missing and the first thing people are advised to do is check wit the local camp, so if this is biggotry, then a lot of users feel the same)

As for "mostly-irrelevant" you got the PM about this scam artist too, about what I think (and other forum users who know of this person) is a very very serious issue. I don't see how a possible scam carried out through boards could be considered irrelevant?

I am not complaining about the infraction, I am complaining about the moderators moderating inconsistantly.

Mod allows a post saying how someone wants to shoot a dog - clearly against the charter.

Mod allows a post selling equipment - again clearly against the charter.

Mod posts that she does not care what happens via PM shortly after being informed about a poster who is "suspected" to carry out scams IRL.

Mod gives an infraction for "swearing" then changes the charter to suit.

Our man in Havana

Moderation decisions are none of your business. They are being the moderation team and the poster concerned.

Whispered

Very true, but you can see why I would be confused as to where I stand with what is and isn't allowed?

AckwelFoley

Bond 007 is a woman?!
Excellent.

an infraction is nothing other than a tap on the knuckles, take it and learn not to use language like that again and im sure you'll be grand

Whispered

snyper wrote: »

Bond 007 is a woman?!
Excellent.

Yes she is.

snyper wrote: »

an infraction is nothing other than a tap on the knuckles, take it and learn not to use language like that again and im sure you'll be grand

Ah no, I know that and really don't mind, just very confused by the whole thing really.

muffler

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Didn't know Bond was a lady.

She never claimed to be that but did say

I am but 1 lovely woman who gets tired

Bob the Builder

I am but 1 lovely woman who gets tired

Same here.
Make it two.

In all honestly... not all travellers treat their dogs like shíte... Thats making generalisations.
Believe it or not, there is a few good travellers out there.
It's like saying all black people rob banks.
or that all white people love sun holidays.

Evil Phil

Moderators don't have any control over what happens via pm as its ment to be private communication between two individuals. It falls outside of the remit of forum charters.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Evil Phil wrote: »

Moderators don't have any control over what happens via pm as its ment to be private communication between two individuals. It falls outside of the remit of forum charters.

There's still rules to be had with PMs isn't there ? There does be blue murder on adverts anytime there's "off thread dealing"

muffler

Evil Phil wrote: »

Moderators don't have any control over what happens via pm as its ment to be private communication between two individuals. It falls outside of the remit of forum charters.

I wouldnt agree entirely with that. It depends on the circumstances.

For example if a short term ban is issued the user receives a PM advising of the ban reason and duration but is also warned that if there is an abusive response then the ban can be extended.

There have been quite a few PMs reported to Smods who have acted on their content.

DeVore

There are of course rules about PMs etc but they tend to be decided and implemented by the admins. We dont look at people's PM's (its actually quite hard to do) but if we have a PM of a serious nature relayed to us by the recipient, we'll definitely take action.

By the way, your off-thread dealer of "rescue" animals was dealt with by me. Sorry if I didnt keep you in the loop but then, I dont have to.

You were infracted which is barely more then an automated PM to let you know of some issue the mod had with something you wrote. This, is a ridiculous over reaction.

DeV

javaboy

helena.ryan wrote: »

Mod gives an infraction for "swearing" then changes the charter to suit.

I seem to remember swearing was always prohibited by the Animals & Pets charter.

Brian Capture

I got banned from Animals and Pet Issues for saying that I hated dogs. Despite giving clear examples of why they sucked, I still got banned.

Gordon

Brian Capture wrote: »

I got banned from Animals and Pet Issues for saying that I hated dogs. Despite giving clear examples of why they sucked, I still got banned.

No, you're just a complete troll Brian. Your ban was only for a week, you maybe didn't contact the mod to ask to be unbanned, you may want to pm one of them for access. But bear in mind that you are banned from the Rec category anyway so you won't get access until that ban is up also.

Karoma

Brian Capture: Ban lifted from Animals and Pet Issues (I'm just that nice). See ya in a few months.

DeVore

Brian Capture wrote: »

I got banned from Animals and Pet Issues for saying that I hated dogs. Despite giving clear examples of why they sucked, I still got banned.

Good.

DeV.

Whispered

DeVore wrote: »

.

By the way, your off-thread dealer of "rescue" animals was dealt with by me. Sorry if I didnt keep you in the loop but then, I dont have to.

You were infracted which is barely more then an automated PM to let you know of some issue the mod had with something you wrote. This, is a ridiculous over reaction.

It's nice to know it was dealt with, and you don't have to let me know, but then, having put so much time into trying to get something done, while getting not so nice phone calls from this person, I'm sure you can imagine, a post shortly after by a mod of the forum saying "she doesn't care" and telling people NOT to PM her was a bit of a shock to say the least. I would have thought that reporting suspected illegal activities was something boards would like to encourage?

An infraction may be nothing, and as I said I don't really care about it, I had intended to bring up the topic of moderation in the forum for a while now, the infraction was the push for me.

Regular members are posting less and less, I have a PM from a regular who will not post there anymore, telling me why. They said I could put it up, but I wont. Needless to say, I am not the only person in the forum who has found the moderating a bit lacking.

Nerin

Helena,if they have a problem with the forum,its the mods they should be pming,or posting here like you are.

Whispered

100% agree, thats why I'm not posting the PM. I just wish the people who privately agree with me would post.

My whole point is the forum is a busy one, and cannot be easy to moderate. Moderating, when it is done, is always hours if not days after the post is posted. In other forums, such as your own Nerin, moderating is constant.

Surely getting bothered by swearing, then changing to charter to justify it, is a waste of the mods time when it could be better used to weed out the posts which are genuinely offensive to the users of the forum.


Bond has described herself as very tired & posts very little in the forum. Maybe she needs some help, someone who posts in the forum regularly and has an actual interest in the forum, who maybe is already a moderator of another forum?

Nerin

helena.ryan wrote: »

100% agree, thats why I'm not posting the PM. I just wish the people who privately agree with me would post.

My whole point is the forum is a busy one, and cannot be easy to moderate. Moderating, when it is done, is always hours if not days after the post is posted. In other forums, such as your own Nerin, moderating is constant.

Surely getting bothered by swearing, then changing to charter to justify it, is a waste of the mods time when it could be better used to weed out the posts which are genuinely offensive to the users of the forum.


Bond has described herself as very tired & posts very little in the forum. Maybe she needs some help, someone who posts in the forum regularly and has an actual interest in the forum, who maybe is already a moderator of another forum?

I get where youre both coming from,once again emotion and text their flavour on the internets.
My advice to you helena is report stuff using the report post function,this way everyone sees it and its transparent,ie-mods,cat mods and smods.

As for the charter,its more a guideline than rulebook,we learned hard and fast on the noc forum that you can't plug every loophole.

Basically a mod can decide outside a charter what is and isn't acceptable,act,and then change the charter if they wish.

Hellrazer

Helena.
Ive been away from boards for Xmas and just came back to this.So Ill answer this as best I can.

Firstly the issue with the poster "scamming" rescue animals was sorted out between myself and the Devore.It was kept off the forum for various reasons which I will not go into with you as its none of your business.

Secondly--You seem to have some personal issue with the way moderating is done on the Animals/pets forum.
You expect the mods to sit and wait till something happens 24/7??
Theres this little thing called "real life" that sometimes makes it a bit hard to get to a pc.
As for issues in the forum--I feel that the forum pretty well moderates itself and I dont have to interfere that much in what happens there.

There is the usual crap of people disagreeing with others opinions with the fluffy lovers hating the hunters and farmers for killing "vermin" but after a thread I posted we made it ok to discuss these matters in a civilised way but some posters still get upset with it.Thats the only real problem I see thats ongoing.

The other issue you seem to have is the amount of time it takes for a reported post to be dealt with--Well the answer to this is that sometimes the mods dont view the reported post as being necessarily a post that needs dealing with and its just about a difference of opinion.

The selling of pet equipment has always been allowed in the forum but not of the actual animals themselves.The post you are talking about was reported with a comment that the poster was selling the animals but in fact it turned out he was only selling the equipment so thats why it was left there.

Edit--Apologies it does say that equipment is not allowed to be sold.As far as Im concerned it was always allowed to be sold so Im going to change that in the charter.

I hope this satisfies your concerns.

Richie.

helena.ryan wrote: »

I recently got an infraction for swearing - that is for typing "bast**ds" in the animal & pet forum.

I got this infraction from a moderator who on one occasion, (having been informed of a scam artist who poses as a rescue and may be trying to sell animals on boards) posted, on the main forum, that she does not care what people do via pm. Selling animals is not allowed but people can do what they like via pm and she does not want to hear any more about it. She said this despite the charter clearly saying money exchange for animals is not allowed full stop.

Then recently a post selling animal equipment was posted, which was reported and she posted in that thread that she would "prefer if the post was made in adverts" yet left the post there?

Now if it is in the charter that swearing is not allowed (I cannot find it btw) and IF replacing 1/4 of a word with ** is STILL swearing then fair enough, but I cannot see how a mod, the same mod, can go against the charter and allow others to do so, while infracting me for something I'm not even sure warrents one?

I realise it's not a ban and only an infraction and have no proplem following the rules of the charter, but would like to think the charter would be enforced consistently, instead of every now and again.

Overheal

Bond-007 is a Dudess?

What does that make Dudess

Whispered

Nerin wrote: »

I get where youre both coming from,once again emotion and text their flavour on the internets.
My advice to you helena is report stuff using the report post function,this way everyone sees it and its transparent,ie-mods,cat mods and smods.

Yep it's hard to have an online disagreement isn't it

I have only once PM'd a mod of the forum about something, and then it was sent to all the mods of the forum to get an issue I had dealt with, and in fairness to richie, he said he had been away and did look after it straight away.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Helena.
Ive been away from boards for Xmas and just came back to this.So Ill answer this as best I can.

Firstly the issue with the poster "scamming" rescue animals was sorted out between myself and the Devore.It was kept off the forum for various reasons which I will not go into with you as its none of your business.

My issue is not with being told or not being told that this was looked after. My issue is this: I thought it was important that you know about this, I tried to get someone to talk to me about it. Was ignored until you came back from holiday and changed the charter, I got a few calls from the person concerned, dealt with that, logged on shortly after to see a public post saying that the mod of the forum doesn't care what happens via PM.

Should I not have brought the issue up in the first place?

Hellrazer wrote: »

Secondly--You seem to have some personal issue with the way moderating is done on the Animals/pets forum.
You expect the mods to sit and wait till something happens 24/7??
Theres this little thing called "real life" that sometimes makes it a bit hard to get to a pc.
As for issues in the forum--I feel that the forum pretty well moderates itself and I dont have to interfere that much in what happens there..

I have a personal issue? I have nothing personal against any of the mods of the forum.

As for a forum moderating itself? should the forum moderate itself, isn't that what moderators are for? I don't think you should sit at your pc 24/7, which is why I suggested another mod, who actually posts there.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Edit--Apologies it does say that equipment is not allowed to be sold.As far as Im concerned it was always allowed to be sold so Im going to change that in the charter.

I hope this satisfies your concerns.

Richie.

It actually does, it's difficult to know what is and isn't allowed when the charter is not very clear, or when the charter is perfectly clear and the moderator goes against it.

Thank you for the long post.

Talliesin

helena.ryan wrote: »

Was ignored until you came back from holiday

If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody is there, is it being ignored?

helena.ryan wrote: »

As for a forum moderating itself? should the forum moderate itself, isn't that what moderators are for?

Ideally, moderators should have to do nothing whatsoever. It's not an ideal that often happens, but it is the ideal.

helena.ryan wrote: »

I don't think you should sit at your pc 24/7, which is why I suggested another mod, who actually posts there.

But they managed to be active enough to infract you so clearly this isn't an issue.

Karoma

helena.ryan wrote: »

Yep it's hard to have an online disagreement isn't it

No. See?

As for a forum moderating itself? should the forum moderate itself, isn't that what moderators are for? I don't think you should sit at your pc 24/7, which is why I suggested another mod, who actually posts there.

Actually, we're there for when that fails.
I read it quite a bit, and I'm down as a moderator... If you want, I can take a more active part in the forum. Be very careful what you ask for.

It actually does, it's difficult to know what is and isn't allowed when the charter is not very clear, or when the charter is perfectly clear and the moderator goes against it.

Clarity is relative to the reader. It's as clear as it needs to be, as it's not a rule book as I have already told you. It's a guide.