so own up who went to mass

lostexpectation

i didn't but i bet there hypocrites here who did.

JC 2K3

I don't think an atheist attending mass at Christmas is anymore hypocritical than someone visiting relatives they don't like.

You're doing something you don't normally do and don't really like in keeping with family tradition and as not to upset those whom you love.

If I had gone and wholeheartedly believed in and partaken in the worship of God, then yes, I would be a hypocrite.

Doctor DooM

lostexpectation wrote: »

i didn't but i bet there hypocrites here who did.

Yawn. Not trying to be confrontational at all there, are ya?

I didn't but why would it make them a hypocrite to do something to make their family happy when it costs them nothing?

Atheism is not a belief it's the lack of belief, yada yada yada.

lostexpectation

yada what?

toiletduck

lostexpectation wrote: »

i didn't but i bet there hypocrites here who did.

I did. Wouldn't call myself a hypocrite though. I had good reason to go, wasn't actively worshipping and to show respect to Catholics I didn't take communion.

Húrin

maybe they went for the lovely girls.

Rev Hellfire

Most grown ups try and reach compromises, doing so doesn't make you a hypocrite.

I agree with SDooM, epic fail, must try harder.

Húrin

Húrin wrote: »

maybe they went for the lovely girls.

I didn't go but that would have been the only reason to go if I did.

Dades

lostexpectation wrote: »

i didn't but i bet there hypocrites here who did.

Did you someone buy you Catcher in the Rye for Christmas?

Fanny Cradock

Not the first, then.

There can be only one Holden!

Doctor DooM

lostexpectation wrote: »

yada what?

It's not a belief, so why would an atheist care if they have to go to mass, save for the fact it is a mild waste of time? There is no atheist creed, nothing which says they can't go into a church and, for example, enjoy the ritual or the songs or the architecture, for example.

It doesn't make them a hypocrite because it is not contravening any of their beliefs- unless they have specifically said "I am an atheist and I will never go into a church again".

lostexpectation

well if people went to mass pretending to be still catholic to the family that would be the hypocritical thing. (or even not saying anything while they go)

"so why would an atheist care if they have to go to mass"

who has to go to mass?

i have no problem with people going to church, i do in a 'lets have discussion about it' way if they go on xmas day once, saying nothing for the sake of their mommy.

lostexpectation

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Most grown ups try and reach compromises, doing so doesn't make you a hypocrite.

i think it would be more capitulation then a compromise, it be more adult not to go.

Acacia

I went, because I think it's a nice ceremony. It's the tradition in my family and it is 'for the sake of my mommy' that I went, but meh. It's only an hour out of my life.

Midnight mass was kind of funny this year when the priest started laying into the Pope about the 'homosexual comments' he made during the week. He got very worked up about it- I thought he was going to rip off his vestments and run out of the church. It was actually worth going just for that.

Really, if people want to go, let them go.

lostexpectation

and it turns out that the pope didn't say anything about the gays anyway.

mikemac

I've no issue with non attenders who only show up for Christmas, weddings and funerals, possibly Easter too. No issue at all.

Because they are nowhere near as bad as some people who attend regularly. It's great that many attend regularly, but I hope they attend for the right reasons.

What I mean is my parish and your parish too, has people (nearly always women) who enter late and walk to the front so everyone sees them. They may also be the first to complain about a long mass and want the old PP back who did a service in 25 minutes flat.
You know the type, the same church goers who get involved in collecting for Trocaire and for the church collections but wouldn't cross the road to help a local and probably looks down on others in their own parish.

This isn't a rant, as I said there are people like this in every parish church in the country.

Me, I went to midnight mass, I though it was a nice ceremony. I went on my own, so be it. Maybe I'll attend this Sunday, maybe I won't. But I wouldn't judge others for non-attendance.

barfizz

Didn't go,

But I did have a very interesting conversation with my Aunt who is a Nun (has been for over 40 years and has worked in Zambia for most of it, She rocks)

She told me and my wife that she and the other Nuns watched the pope and they were furious with what he said about homosexuals, (quite a few have nieces and nephews etc...), there was only one nun in the group who agreed with him and they all think that she is a bit of a right wing zealot.

That's what i call a great conversation across the dinner table

Fanny Cradock

lostexpectation wrote: »

i think it would be more capitulation then a compromise, it be more adult not to go.

'Adult', you say. As difficult as it appears to accept, you simply have to face the fact that not everybody gets quite so worked up about religion, nor feels the need to admit the crime of walking into a church. *Gasp* If any number of non-Christians want to go to church for any number of personal reasons then so what?

And we Christians get pegged as proselytisers!

Doctor DooM

lostexpectation wrote: »

and it turns out that the pope didn't say anything about the gays anyway.

Whats that got to do with the price of cabbage?

TBH, I would care much, much more about my relatives feelings than my own ego.

Not that I even went, but in that situation I would.

Zombrex

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

'Adult', you say. As difficult as it appears to accept, you simply have to face the fact that not everybody gets quite so worked up about religion, nor feels the need to admit the crime of walking into a church. *Gasp* If any number of non-Christians want to go to church for any number of personal reasons then so what?

And we Christians get pegged as proselytisers!

Personally I think it is a bit disrespectful to go along to mass pretending to be a Catholic when you don't actually believe any of it. It is perfectly possible to say you aren't Catholic so you aren't going, or go along (if you absolutely have to go) but do not partake in the actual rituals (praying etc). When ever I have to be in a church (it burns, it burns) I just keep my head down out of respect and my mouth shut.

People shouldn't be ashamed to saying they are non-religious, nor that they don't partake in religious ritual. Equally, when you think about it it isn't very respectful to the religion to pretend you do.

But unfortunately even in this day and age saying you are an atheist still gets you looks like you are some immoral heretic who would rather be spending your time having a naked threesome with a donkey and a gay midget while consuming large amounts of drink and drugs and running up a huge credit card bill on the internet than spending time in church.

If only things were like Wolfsbane's Disneyland utopia of 50 years ago. That was a wonderful time to be a live ... except if you were a woman of course .... or black .... or gay .... heck any minority ....

Gambler

I went down to the wifes hours for breakfast and when they all went to mass I took a walk with my camera

When mass was over they gave me a call and I met them all back at her parents house.

I could have gone to mass (and have been to a number of masses to see my wife sing over the last few years) but I figured I've made it 29 years without going to mass on christmas day, why break the habit of a life time!

Rev Hellfire

I think ultimately it comes down to respect for other people, the church doesn't enter into it.

I think its safe to assume in all cases here we are dealing with people returning (or still living) to the familial home.

If everyone is an adult then it would be disrespectful of the parents to insist that the others attend mass with them, they may ask and the response is a matter for the individual to determine.

The situation is different when dealing with younger children/siblings. If your parents wish to raise their children in a particular manner you should respect their wishes and if attending mass for one day in the year will avoid an unnecessary confrontation then you would hope people would be mature enough to suck it up and endure the whole hour or what ever, simply think of it as a gift to your parents.

pH

Wicknight wrote: »

If only things were like Wolfsbane's Disneyland utopia of 50 years ago. That was a wonderful time to be a live ... except if you were a woman of course .... or black .... or gay .... heck any minority ....

Or lived in Limerick.

PDN

Wicknight wrote: »

Personally I think it is a bit disrespectful to go along to mass pretending to be a Catholic when you don't actually believe any of it. It is perfectly possible to say you aren't Catholic so you aren't going, or go along (if you absolutely have to go) but do not partake in the actual rituals (praying etc). When ever I have to be in a church (it burns, it burns) I just keep my head down out of respect and my mouth shut.

Which is exactly what I do when I attend a mass (funerals or weddings). I would be a hypocrite to repeat all the Catholic stuff so I sit where I am, avoid all the kneeling and crossing oneself, and try to look respectful.

If only things were like Wolfsbane's Disneyland utopia of 50 years ago. That was a wonderful time to be a live ... except if you were a woman of course .... or black .... or gay .... heck any minority ....

Yes, there must have been seething resentment in the black ghettos of Lurgan in the 50s.

rugbyman

Am an Atheist, but you know though there are many of us on here, or exist, it really is amazing how many of ones colleagues are not.

Have a look around your colleagues. Many non churchgoers, but not atheists.

Many, agnostics , who may or may not be occasional churchgoers.

It takes a lot of questioning, a lot of intellect and quite a bit of self confidence to be an Atheist.

I attended a funeral yesterday of a friend. It was great , the hymn s were moving but (no disrespect to my late friend) so is warm soup in the winter like your mother prepared, open fires, warm childhood memories.

studiorat

PDN wrote: »

Yes, there must have been seething resentment in the black ghettos of Lurgan in the 50s.

Indeed, Black B@stard used to mean something different in that particular locale. Let's be fair though, while sectarianism enjoyed much support over the years, racisim is only really getting started in NI these days. 15% rise in hate crimes!

None of the family paid any attention to the christian aspect of the celebrations. I attended the church of excess over the last few days. It's time to remove myself from the alter that is my sofa because I'm starting to feel a little like Jabba da-Hut.

For me churches are purely for weddings and funerals etc...

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

People shouldn't be ashamed to saying they are non-religious, nor that they don't partake in religious ritual. Equally, when you think about it it isn't very respectful to the religion to pretend you do.

I thought we'd agreed - to have respect for the right to believe, rather than the belief itself!

Look, regarding Christmas mass it's all a matter of timing. People are back with their families, and for one week of the year some people are coaxed into going to a church. So it's hardly the time of year to tell mom and dad that you don't believe in any of it, as the answers to the inevitable questions are going to upset.

lostexpectation

how is it confrontational for you not to go to mass, how is upsetting to say to somebody you don't believe?

Fanny Cradock

I find this bizarre. As has been pointed out before, atheism has no creed. Why, then, do you feel it is your place to tell fellow non-believers what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour? Live and let live, no?

Galvasean

Last time I went to Xmas mass when everyone was shaking hands myself and my sister taught it would be hilarious to replace "Peace be with you" with "May the force be with you".
In actual fact no one noticed.

Tomk1

I just can't go into a church, I was at a Baptism and felt like hitting the priest or just walking out, which is what I evenually had to do. Maybe with ear plugs and dark glasses.