Rally vs F1 Drivers

Tony Broke

Many of us have given it some in a quick car down some bad country road one time or an other and thought we could be a rally driver, but when you watch the in-car they seem to be in a different dimension and you realise just how completely barking mad they are.

My question is, does Rallying rely more on a drivers skill than F1 does?

I dont know, I just think that F1 drivers have it much easier, they practice many laps on the same track before the actual race. In rallying, there are often blind hairpin turns. In F1, the turns are visable well in advance. Rallying is about adjusting to changing conditions. Whereas, F1 is about taking the proper racing line and setting up for the next turn.

If you take a look at the average ages of the top F1 guys and the top WRC guys of the past and present, the rally drivers are very old in comparison, skill/knowledge must be a huge factor then.Racing strictly against the clock takes a certain discipline as well that not all F1 drivers seem to have.Not all F1 drivers are good qualifiers, but Rallying could be described is constant qualifying.When you see the in-car shots of the rally drivers you can see they are working incredibly hard.

Anyone drive both here? ( not F1 car of course, but one of those similar to them, like F3)

Hotwheels

Tactics is a big part of F1, and Rallying too, tyre choice, amount of fuel, starting position (mostly gravel stages) but unlike F1. You can't really learn a stage like a track.

In Rallying you have to have total belife in your Pace notes, and your co-driver, a badly read pace note can be Disastrous! like being told you are approaching a square-left. Instead of a square-right. And some spectators think its very funny to turn the advance arrow the wrong way...
R3-->R3-->jmp!
In F1 you don't have cows, sheep etc to worry about, in Rallying you are likely to meet any and all on a stage not funny when you go round a bend a 90mph and there's a cow in the middle of the road :eek:
At the top level its a serious business, but at Clubman level its more about have a bit of crack...

In F1 you have nice run off areas, in Rallying you have stone walls, a ditch if you are lucky....And when was the last time you saw a F1 driver change a tyre at the side of the road erm track
Few other motorsports let spectators get within inches of a car doing 120 MPH, far more exciting than F1 imo.

For example, the scenery is much better than most tracks


If you have never done a trackday, do it! its well worth it...

Steve

Tony Broke wrote: »

If you take a look at the average ages of the top F1 guys and the top WRC guys of the past and present, the rally drivers are very old in comparison, skill/knowledge must be a huge factor then.

Being able to sustain 6G braking and cornering forces is probably why there aren't more older F1 drivers as well.

The skill sets are totally different, Fi drivers have to be able to maintain humming-bird like reflexes on a track that they are driving around again and again, I imagine it's easy to become complacent as you take the same corner for the 43rd time but it only takes a few milliseconds lapse and they're off the track.
Likewise, rally drivers are putting blind faith in the course notes and as said there could be a sheep or spectator waiting around the next corner so experience and ability to react are the only thing that will save them.

Kersh

2 pretty different skillsets and mindsets required.

But for what its worth, Loeb is the only rally driver out there who drives a rally car like a circuit car - minimal wheelspin, minimal tail out, minimal slip angle- and he seems to win everything.
Imo, rally drivers waste far too much time wheelspinning and beiing sideways. I always reckoned any driver who came to rallying with a circuit racer mindset would wipe the floor, and that seems to be whats happening

Hence Loeb was 8th quickest in a recent F1 test.

Ultimately, smooth circuit racer style is the quicker, if less spectacular way to win,

Very difficult to split the talents of both types of drivers - personally I think rally drivers are nuts, and that bikeracers are the nuttiest,

pburns

Kersh wrote: »

2 pretty different skillsets and mindsets required.

But for what its worth, Loeb is the only rally driver out there who drives a rally car like a circuit car - minimal wheelspin, minimal tail out, minimal slip angle- and he seems to win everything.
Imo, rally drivers waste far too much time wheelspinning and beiing sideways. I always reckoned any driver who came to rallying with a circuit racer mindset would wipe the floor, and that seems to be whats happening

Hence Loeb was 8th quickest in a recent F1 test.

Ultimately, smooth circuit racer style is the quicker, if less spectacular way to win,

Very difficult to split the talents of both types of drivers - personally I think rally drivers are nuts, and that bikeracers are the nuttiest,

Yep, I agree with all that. That's why i don't really rate Colin McRae as highly as some people. Loeb seems to be an awesome all-round talent.

The problem with F1 is that the tracks are so sterile and sanitised it's hard to actually SEE how awesomely difficult it is. Sometimes you can see it really graphically tho - like Hakkinen jinking around Ricardo Zonta at 200mph to overtake Schuey a few years ago. I watch that on YouTube some times and it still causes the hairs on the back of my neck to rise!

Likewise in-car footage of Alonso in the wet after he was demoted on the grid on some trumped up technicality. And of course Senna's first lap of Donington back in '93 in an inferior McLaren...

F1 and rallying very different disciplines though. Mario Andretti (who raced in all kinds of series including F1) once said 'If you can drive, you can drive - PERIOD!'. That's the way I like to think of it:)...

unkel

pburns wrote: »

'If you can drive, you can drive - PERIOD!'. That's the way I like to think of it:)...

And he's probably right!

Kersh wrote: »

Loeb is the only rally driver out there who drives a rally car like a circuit car - minimal wheelspin, minimal tail out, minimal slip angle- and he seems to win everything.

Funny you mention that. There's an annual *show* event called the "race of champions", where the best of rallye and F1 drivers compete. This year was indeed won by Loeb and he has won it several times in the past too.

Hotwheels

rally drivers waste far too much time wheelspinning and beiing sideways.

Wouldn't have it any other way gimme a good MK11 any day...

Biro

unkel wrote: »

And he's probably right!



Funny you mention that. There's an annual *show* event called the "race of champions", where the best of rallye and F1 drivers compete. This year was indeed won by Loeb and he has won it several times in the past too.

Yes, and Loeb was beaten in a WRC car by Ekstrom this year. What do you make of that?
As said above, different skill sets. If you're used to one it takes time to adopt to another. But at the same time rallying gives a broader mix of skills. Loeb is crap on snow where as the scandanavian guys dominate there. Loeb is legend on tar, can't be beaten. Gravel are the only times where the mixed bag of results come in.
In F1 at 200mph you can't see properly because the vibrations are shaking the eyes in your sockets. In some circuits the corner is just over a crest. You can see squat but you just have to brake as late as you dare. Brake 2 metres too soon and you've lost momentum through the corner and out of it and along the next straight are making up for it. It's precision and reflex at it's ultimate. Rallying is feel and reflex. Loeb and McRea didn't make fools of themselves when they tested in F1, and likewise Brundel didn't make an ass of himself when he tested in rallying.
When you see a rally driver lining up a car to hit a jump so that it can land at the right angle and part of the road to enable him to sway it all sideways to slide around the next 90 degree right on a gravel surface then you notice how skilled they really are. Same with when you see an F1 guy leaving an apex with a drizzle of rain after falling and giving it a bit too much throttle and his hands are holding the wheel at 90 degrees before you even copped on that the back of the car was about to go, that's skill at a different level too. No point comparing, just sit back and enjoy!