1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And starve them into submission. typical hysterical bs.

No, its not. Its pretty absurd to deny, that is exactly what is happening.

Plenty of reports from the UN etc, about malnutrion of children. All posted earlier. Continually denying this is absurd.

There are reports from last year, before the current bout of fighting, showing problems with food:

Blockade puts Gaza on brink of serious food crisis, says UN

That one is from May of last year. There are plenty of other reports since then as well.

So to call paulaa hysterical, is pure nonsense.

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel is a democracy .

...which is colonising the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. Their system of Government, is therefore rather irrelevant in light of their actions.

wes

paulaa wrote: »

I think my post is as valuable as anyone else's here.

I wouldn't take it personally. Those kind of accusations are thrown around by everyone and can easily be thrown back.

wes

Nodin wrote: »

...which is colonising the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. Their system of Government, is therefore rather irrelevant in light of their actions.

Apparently being a democracy, makes it ok to do things, we would condemn a dictatorship for.

Nodin

wes wrote: »

Apparently being a democracy, makes it ok to do things, we would condemn a dictatorship for.

Thus, if a mob decides democratically to lynch some one, its ok....

wes

Nodin wrote: »

Thus, if a mob decides democratically to lynch some one, its ok....

Certainly looks that way.

paulaa

wes wrote: »

I wouldn't take it personally. Those kind of accusations are thrown around by everyone and can easily be thrown back.

I don't wes. :P

I see "democracy", Israeli style is alive and well this morning. They are now censoring Al Jazeera, probably because they were the only ones who brought what was really happening in Gaza to the world. We can't have that now, can we !!

Government to impose sanctions on Al Jazeera's Israel operations
The government will impose sanctions on Israel-based employees of the Al Jazeera network in response to the closure last month of the Israeli trade office in Qatar, which hosts and funds the network. Qatar had closed the office in opposition to Israel's military offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Following the closure, the Foreign Ministry, in conjunction with the newly-formed national information directorate in the Prime Minister's Office, considered declaring the station a hostile entity and closing its offices in Israel. After submitting the idea to legal review, however, concerns emerged it would not be permitted by the High Court of Justice.

Instead, it chose to limit the network's activity in Israel and the Palestinian Authority. First, Israel will not renew the visas of Al Jazeera's non-Israeli employees or grant visas to new employees. Second, station representatives will have reduced accessibility to government and military bodies, and will not be allowed into briefings or press conferences.

Third, the network will have access to only three official spokespeople - those of the Prime Minister's Office, Foreign Ministry and the Israel Defense Forces. The information directorate has also instructed Knesset members and ministers not to grant interviews or otherwise cooperate with Al Jazeera, but this is a non-binding instruction which lawmakers may apply at their discretion.

"Israel believes in freedom of the press and in the public's right to know," a Foreign Ministry official said Monday. "This is a rearrangement of relations between Israel and the Al Jazeera network in light of the present situation."

Note the irony of the underlined sentence lol

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061115.html

Neither Al Jazeera, nor the Israeli slant of things are exactly balanced. Al Jazeera have shown on many occasions their own shortcomings in this area, just as you point out Israel's. Both make much of their honesty, but both have their own agenda's.

wes

Interesting story in the Guardian today. Now the whole story has some interesting insight, but I found the following more so than the rest:

From Gaza to Jerusalem: the impact of war on the Israeli election

**SNIP**
_________________________________________________________
Yehuda, a burly former infantryman who served during Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, opens up a scanned file on his computer – a pamphlet circulated by the army's chief military rabbi to soldiers before entering Gaza. It is a document as unsettling in its own way as the religious justifications of Hamas for its own violence. It talks about the necessity of cruelty against the enemy, and dehumanises and de-legitimises the Palestinians and their claims.

Manekin translates the words: "We are not allowed by religious command to return an inch of land to the Palestinians. It is our land – God's land. There is a question [in the pamphlet]: 'Can we compare the Palestinians now to the biblical era of the Philistines? And if so, does this guide us how we act militarily'? The answer says: 'Yes we can. The Palestinians like the Philistines are not a natural part of this region'."
_________________________________________________________
**SNIP**

(above emphasis is mine)

I can't say I am surprised by this, but the religous rhetoric is interesting, when compared to that of Hamas.

paulaa

Deleted User wrote: »

Neither Al Jazeera, nor the Israeli slant of things are exactly balanced. Al Jazeera have shown on many occasions their own shortcomings in this area, just as you point out Israel's. Both make much of their honesty, but both have their own agenda's.

All broadcasters have their own agenda. I like AJ International because the have some first class correspondents and presenters. Their coverage of Somalia and Sri Lanka is amongst the best I've seen and they even criticised Hamas on occasions !!!

I'm watching a discussion programme called American Dream as I type this, about healthcare in the US, which comes from their Washington studio I think. All American particants and a very interesting discussion.
Compared to AJ Israeli TV is like Lord HawHaw.

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

All broadcasters have their own agenda. I like AJ International because the have some first class correspondents and presenters. Their coverage of Somalia and Sri Lanka is amongst the best I've seen and they even criticised Hamas on occasions !!!

I'm watching a discussion programme called American Dream as I type this, about healthcare in the US, which comes from their Washington studio I think. All American particants and a very interesting discussion.
Compared to AJ Israeli TV is like Lord HawHaw.

Absolute rubbish again. Its pretty typical that you'd like Al-Jazeera, its probably the most biased anti-israeli tv station on the planet...and thats saying something. Its agenda is pretty clear...anti-israel and anti-western world.

they've criticised Hamas on occasion? wow how novel!

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Absolute rubbish again. Its pretty typical that you'd like Al-Jazeera, its probably the most biased anti-israeli tv station on the planet...and thats saying something. Its agenda is pretty clear...anti-israel and anti-western world.

I have watched Al Jazeera English and its an excellent news channel and I read there web site all the time.

Your accusations are pure nonsense. Your just throwing out absurd accusations and exagerated nonsense.

Also, to call them the most anti-Western and anti-Israeli tv station in the world is hilarious. There pretty even handed actually.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Absolute rubbish again. Its pretty typical that you'd like Al-Jazeera, its probably the most biased anti-israeli tv station on the planet...and thats saying something. Its agenda is pretty clear...anti-israel and anti-western world.

they've criticised Hamas on occasion? wow how novel!

Oh I watch all kinds of channels, I even watch Fox news now and again to see what spin they're putting on the lastest news from around the world. From what I've seen of Israeli TV it's like a party political broadcast 24/7.
You can call my opinions "rubbish" or whatever you like but I and others have not been swayed by the Hasbara attempts here. We, unlike some, are able to make up our own minds.

btw did you hear that those "ignorant and backward" Iranians launched their first satellite today, all without help or financing from the US or anyone else in the West.

munchester29

Seems some of the truth is starting to come out in regards to some claims we all discussed on this thread:

“UN Admits: Schools in Gaza Employed Terrorists”

http://www.poligazette.com/2009/01/15/un-admits-schools-in-gaza-employed-terrorists/



“UN admits that Israel didn't hit Gaza UN school”

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TR8MOPCC45AUHQF6E

wes

munchester29 wrote: »

“UN Admits: Schools in Gaza Employed Terrorists”

http://www.poligazette.com/2009/01/15/un-admits-schools-in-gaza-employed-terrorists/

Were they firing from the school?!?

munchester29 wrote: »

“UN admits that Israel didn't hit Gaza UN school”

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TR8MOPCC45AUHQF6E

Thats a forum, so has about as much value as anything said here.

paulaa

munchester29 wrote: »

Seems some of the truth is starting to come out in regards to some claims we all discussed on this thread:

“UN Admits: Schools in Gaza Employed Terrorists”

http://www.poligazette.com/2009/01/15/un-admits-schools-in-gaza-employed-terrorists/



“UN admits that Israel didn't hit Gaza UN school”

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TR8MOPCC45AUHQF6E

Two links, one a third hand account from Fox News with no direct quote from anyone.
The other from IsraelNN.com, again with no direct quotes.

I'll wait until I see some independent confirmation or the results of any open inquiry into the incident, if you don't mind.

An interesting observation from the end of the first link
"An important point should be made, however; even if the school employed terrorists who were firing at IDF troops, and even if it was providing children with textbooks that contained anti-Jewish information, Israel could have opted to simply surround the building, give those inside a chance to come out, and attack it a bit later."

paulaa

wes wrote: »

Interesting story in the Guardian today. Now the whole story has some interesting insight, but I found the following more so than the rest:

(above emphasis is mine)

I can't say I am surprised by this, but the religous rhetoric is interesting, when compared to that of Hamas.

I just read this, it would do a Mullah proud.

munchester29

paulaa wrote: »

Two links, one a third hand account from Fox News with no direct quote from anyone.
The other from IsraelNN.com, again with no direct quotes.

I'll wait until I see some independent confirmation or the results of any open inquiry into the incident, if you don't mind.

An interesting observation from the end of the first link
"An important point should be made, however; even if the school employed terrorists who were firing at IDF troops, and even if it was providing children with textbooks that contained anti-Jewish information, Israel could have opted to simply surround the building, give those inside a chance to come out, and attack it a bit later."

Here is a link to the original article (Canadian site - Globeandmail). They interviewed John Ging:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wgazaschool29/BNStory/International/home

"John Ging, UNRWA's operations director in Gaza, acknowledged in an interview this week that all three Israeli mortar shells landed outside the school and that "no one was killed in the school."

wes

paulaa wrote: »

I just read this, it would do a Mullah proud.

There are plenty of religous nuts on both sides, but this guys is employed by the IDF, so that adds an extra dimension to things.

paulaa

John Ging : "They even came out with a video that purported to show gunmen in the schoolyard. But we had seen it before," he said, "in 2007."

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

Oh I watch all kinds of channels, I even watch Fox news now and again to see what spin they're putting on the lastest news from around the world. From what I've seen of Israeli TV it's like a party political broadcast 24/7.
You can call my opinions "rubbish" or whatever you like but I and others have not been swayed by the Hasbara attempts here. We, unlike some, are able to make up our own minds.

btw did you hear that those "ignorant and backward" Iranians launched their first satellite today, all without help or financing from the US or anyone else in the West.

And who called the Iranians technologically ignorant and backward? No one thats who. On the other hand the way they treat gays and women and other minorities is pretty backward.

Also you seem to think that anyone who has a contradictory opinion to you is part of some grand conspiracy. Well its not the case. The way some posters just popped up on this thread could be construed as being a bit odd as I've seen other anti-israeli posters on several different threads. Perhaps part of a some wooly-minded right-on conspiracy.....

BlaasForRafa

munchester29 wrote: »

Here is a link to the original article (Canadian site - Globeandmail). They interviewed John Ging:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wgazaschool29/BNStory/International/home

"John Ging, UNRWA's operations director in Gaza, acknowledged in an interview this week that all three Israeli mortar shells landed outside the school and that "no one was killed in the school."

its on ha'aretz too http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061189.html

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

John Ging : "They even came out with a video that purported to show gunmen in the schoolyard. But we had seen it before," he said, "in 2007."

John Ging is wrong. The IDF did not claim to have video of that incident. The IDF released video to show a rocket attack from a school. The video is clearly marked on the IDF official youtube channel as "Hamas Rockets During Cease-Fire and From Schoolyard 8 Jan. 09"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UN9WzUc7iB0

what john ging seems to be thinking of is a video that the IDF released that shows previous evidence of terrorists using schools which is clearly marked on the IDF channel "Mortar Bombs Shot from UN School in Gaza 29 Oct. 2007"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI

And is CLEARLY a different video.

If the head of the UN relief agency is going to make accusations he may as well get his facts right eh?

TOMASJ

Here is a very balanced interview from the horses mouth so to speak and not third party nonsense, http://russiatoday.com/guests/detail/2071 which was on a Russian TV channel a few days ago John Ging says that the Israeli did fire into UN schools and compounds,

BlaasForRafa

TOMASJ wrote: »

Here is a very balanced interview from the horses mouth so to speak and not third party nonsense, http://russiatoday.com/guests/detail/2071 which was on a Russian TV channel a few days ago John Ging says that the Israeli did fire into UN schools and compounds,

For someone in such an important position John Ging seems to be an astonishingly naive person:

If we let militants into the compound then we have failed in that duty. It’s also nonsense, by the way. Do you think for half a second that 1,600 people inside in a school are going to allow militants to come into the school and set up a rocket launching or whatever, knowing full well that they are going to be at the receiving end of an artillery round or whatever? They will fight to prevent the militants coming into the school, I can assure you of that as well.

So....a bunch of Hamas militants come up to a bunch of civilians brandishing AK47's and RPG-7's...what are the civilians going to do....slap them upside the head???

TOMASJ

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So....a bunch of Hamas militants come up to a bunch of civilians brandishing AK47's and RPG-7's...what are the civilians going to do....slap them upside the head???

Maybe Hamas has more respect for those Palestinian civilians than the IDF, who I presume going by their form would incinerate them with white phosphorus.

BlaasForRafa

TOMASJ wrote: »

Maybe Hamas has more respect for those Palestinian civilians than the IDF, who I presume going by their form would incinerate them with white phosphorus.

Are you kidding me? Read your statement again and check in with reality.

Hamas are the ones who purposely fired from civilian areas. Hamas are the ones who drove their trucks towards crowds of civilians so iaf pilots wouldn't fire, Hamas are the ones who publicly said that the people of Gaza are a human shield and theres video evidence of all of those in this very thread.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And who called the Iranians technologically ignorant and backward? No one thats who. On the other hand the way they treat gays and women and other minorities is pretty backward.

Also you seem to think that anyone who has a contradictory opinion to you is part of some grand conspiracy. Well its not the case. The way some posters just popped up on this thread could be construed as being a bit odd as I've seen other anti-israeli posters on several different threads. Perhaps part of a some wooly-minded right-on conspiracy.....

I don't believe in conspiracies, only when politicians are involved, just like I don't believe in mythical beings speaking in the ears of the seemingly sane people and telling them to go to war or that they can slaughter who they like to grab land that's not theirs.

However you can't deny that the Hasbara gang do exist to spread the propaganda of the Israeli government. That has been known for years and is easily recognisable.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

John Ging is wrong. The IDF did not claim to have video of that incident. The IDF released video to show a rocket attack from a school. The video is clearly marked on the IDF official youtube channel as "Hamas Rockets During Cease-Fire and From Schoolyard 8 Jan. 09"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UN9WzUc7iB0

what john ging seems to be thinking of is a video that the IDF released that shows previous evidence of terrorists using schools which is clearly marked on the IDF channel "Mortar Bombs Shot from UN School in Gaza 29 Oct. 2007"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI

And is CLEARLY a different video.

If the head of the UN relief agency is going to make accusations he may as well get his facts right eh?

I have met John Ging and he is one of the most genuine people I've ever met, totally dedicated to his job and a genuine caring person. He has worked in several "hot spots" in the world under atrocious conditions and is no way naive.
As to the bombing of the UN schools, Israel has changed it's story so many times that I'll only believe the final report when it comes out.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Read your statement again and check in with reality.

Hamas are the ones who purposely fired from civilian areas. Hamas are the ones who drove their trucks towards crowds of civilians so iaf pilots wouldn't fire, Hamas are the ones who publicly said that the people of Gaza are a human shield and theres video evidence of all of those in this very thread.

And they're not the only ones.

Gazans say Israeli troops forced them into battle zones
By Dion Nissenbaum

EZBT ABED RABBO, Gaza Strip — The Israeli soldiers outside Majdi Abed Rabbo's home were after the three Hamas fighters holed up next door, and they wanted Abed Rabbo to be their point man.

For the next 24 hours, Abed Rabbo said, the soldiers repeatedly forced him to walk through the battle zone to see whether the militants were dead or alive.

Abed Rabbo wasn't alone. Eight other residents in this northern Gaza Strip neighborhood told McClatchy in separate interviews that Israeli soldiers had conscripted them to check homes for booby traps, to smash holes in the walls of houses so that soldiers could use them as escape routes or to try to pull dead Palestinian militants from the rubble.

Conscripting Palestinians during the recent fighting in Gaza would appear to violate not only international law, but also Israel's court-imposed ban on using civilians as human shields."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/61329.html