1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

paulaa · 07-03-2009 12:35am

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

they say while convenintly ignoring the terrorist attack in Jerusalem on thursda and the CONTINUING rockets and mortars from Gaza do people here think they stopped? do they think hamas are capable of stopping rocket fire ?
the answer is no they are not capable of stopping rocket fire because they want Israels destruction not just there own state or just the borders open.

Long time no see IR.
I don't know who the they is but I'll answer you anyway.
You call the man in Jerusalem a "terrorist". Was he a member of Hamas or any of the militant factions ?

He could have been a frustrated and desperate man who had received an eviction notice and whose home is under threat of demolition. He could be someone who had been humiliated once too often by some fresh faced thug in a uniform in one of the nearly 600 checkpoints. Any number of reasons why he flipped, not necessarily true that he was a "terrorist".
BTW why did a taxi driver have the right to shoot him 4 times ? Has it deteriorated to the stage that it's like the wild west in Jerusalem now ?

You say "Just the borders open". Do you forget that people are dying in Gaza from easily preventable illnesses and malnutrition because aid is only being allowed in a trickle. Remember the idiotic ban on pasta and macaroni that the world was laughing about last week ?

As long as Gaza is kept as a Stalag the rockets will keep coming and tbh the longer this sadistic and spiteful siege goes on the more sympathy I have with them.

To make things even better the people of Israel voted for Lieberman in big numbers and now he wants the position of Foreign Minister.
I hope he gets it lol.

the_syco · 07-03-2009 3:01am

paulaa wrote: »

All they have to do , as usual, is spread a little fear and propaganda and the gullible, naive and bloodthirsty will sign up in a flash

When you say they, do you mean Hamas, or the Israeli government?

IRISH RAIL · 07-03-2009 4:09am

Gun control is very strict in Israel
People who drive public vehicles are allowed carry a sidearm since the early 2000`s due to the suicide bombings on buses. bus drivers train conducters etc.
Soilders on active duty and reserves are issued weapons to take home.
Police etc also if you live in a settlement but last year this has been revised so no civillian can have a gun weather in Judea or Samaria or TA
The terrorist was identified as 26-year-old Mir'i Redeideh. Married with kids had no eviction notices even his family were shocked and suprised by this.
A copy of the quran was found opened on him after he was shot. in the coming investigation it will be revealed if he is part of a terrorist group or a "leaderless resistance operative".
Pasta and macoroni is not banned its just not on the allowed list that has something to do with the UN aswell ill have to have a look and find the recourse for that ( yes I know I dont draw up these lists and sometimes things that should be allowed in are not and things that should not are allowed in) but some people dont realise that sugar is a primary explosive component in katusha rockets and that is allowed in. Imagine the outcry if Israel was to stop letting in sugar?

as for Liebermann people arent looking at the big picture there they just see Lieberman right wing and dont look beyond that.
BiBi wants to form a unity government he always did but since Livni and now Labor wont join him its left to the smaller parties Just today Barak blasted the Labor parties policy makers for refusing to join a unity government He is in favor. Just like in Ireland Fianna Fail had to go to greens Pd`s and independants to form a government.
Also there was a post about Israel charging aid to cross into Gaza That is pure propoganda There is No "fee" for aid travelling into Gaza complete rubbish.

Nodin · 07-03-2009 11:07am

"Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad has resigned from his post to pave the way for the formation of a national unity government."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0307/mideast.html

A shame they didn't get rid of Abbas. However these moves towards unity are a good thing.

Offy · 07-03-2009 11:24am

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Pasta and macoroni is not banned its just not on the allowed list that has something to do with the UN aswell ill have to have a look and find the recourse for that ( yes I know I dont draw up these lists and sometimes things that should be allowed in are not and things that should not are allowed in) but some people dont realise that sugar is a primary explosive component in katusha rockets and that is allowed in. Imagine the outcry if Israel was to stop letting in sugar?

What makes me think poor thoughts about Israel is

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

its just not on the allowed list

Israel has decided to tell an entire country what food they can eat. Who tells Israel what food Jews can eat?

IRISH RAIL · 07-03-2009 1:04pm

READ THE POST AGAIN
the un have a part to play in that too Im a bit tired and cranky so I wont be looking for the source today,

paulaa · 07-03-2009 3:09pm

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Gun control is very strict in Israel
People who drive public vehicles are allowed carry a sidearm since the early 2000`s due to the suicide bombings on buses. bus drivers train conducters etc.
Soilders on active duty and reserves are issued weapons to take home.
Police etc also if you live in a settlement but last year this has been revised so no civillian can have a gun weather in Judea or Samaria or TA
The terrorist was identified as 26-year-old Mir'i Redeideh. Married with kids had no eviction notices even his family were shocked and suprised by this.
A copy of the quran was found opened on him after he was shot. in the coming investigation it will be revealed if he is part of a terrorist group or a "leaderless resistance operative".
Pasta and macoroni is not banned its just not on the allowed list that has something to do with the UN aswell ill have to have a look and find the recourse for that ( yes I know I dont draw up these lists and sometimes things that should be allowed in are not and things that should not are allowed in) but some people dont realise that sugar is a primary explosive component in katusha rockets and that is allowed in. Imagine the outcry if Israel was to stop letting in sugar?

as for Liebermann people arent looking at the big picture there they just see Lieberman right wing and dont look beyond that.
BiBi wants to form a unity government he always did but since Livni and now Labor wont join him its left to the smaller parties Just today Barak blasted the Labor parties policy makers for refusing to join a unity government He is in favor. Just like in Ireland Fianna Fail had to go to greens Pd`s and independants to form a government.
Also there was a post about Israel charging aid to cross into Gaza That is pure propoganda There is No "fee" for aid travelling into Gaza complete rubbish.

The "forthcoming investigation" will be more of the same propaganda that we always hear. "He wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map" blah, blah blah. What they won't investigate is why people feel so desperate that they will do something like this knowing they will be killed. For a 26 year old man to feel that this is the only way he has to make his voice known says so much about the country he's living in.

The taxi driver shot him 4 times but he was still alive so a soldier/policeman finished him off. No such thing as taking him into custody and sending him for trial. As I said no better than the wild west, Darfur, Rwanda etc, any place where the law is only for one section of the population or there is no law at all.

As to eviction notices, pardon me if I question that. Anyway now his family will be evicted, made homeless and their home demolished, the usual Israeli reply to these situations.

Have the settlers all handed up their weapons yet, I doubt it. They have been able to kill the Palestinians on their own land, at will, while the soldiers stand by and do nothing . These soldiers are there to protect the settlers not to try and keep the peace.

Lieberman is a thug and is being investigated for corruption. Knowing this, he was still voted in by the increasingly right wing, fascist-leaning public.

Some of Avigdor Lieberman's infamous statements:
# In 1998, Lieberman called for the flooding of Egypt by bombing the Aswan Dam in retaliation for Egyptian support for Yasser Arafat.
# In 2001, as Minister of National Infrastructure, Lieberman proposed that the West Bank be divided into four cantons, with no central Palestinian government and no possibility for Palestinians to travel between the cantons.
# In 2002, the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman in a Cabinet meeting saying that the Palestinians should be given an ultimatum that "At 8am we'll bomb all the commercial centers ... at noon we'll bomb their gas stations ... at two we'll bomb their banks ..."
# In 2003, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.
# In May 2004, Lieberman proposed a plan that called for the transfer of Israeli territory with Palestinian populations to the Palestinian Authority. Likewise, Israel would annex the major Jewish settlement blocs on the Palestinian West Bank. If applied, his plan would strip roughly one-third of Israel's Palestinian citizens of their citizenship. A "loyalty test" would be applied to those who desired to remain in Israel. This plan to trade territory with the Palestinian Authority is a revision of Lieberman's earlier calls for the forcible transfer of Palestinian citizens of Israel from their land. Lieberman stated in April 2002 that there was "nothing undemocratic about transfer."
# Also in May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Palestinian citizens would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.
# In May 2006, Lieberman called for the killing of Arab members of Knesset who meet with members of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.

Even the Labour Party said of him, "Lieberman is himself a strategic threat."

His meetings with Hilary Clinton should be interesting if he gets the FM post !!!

By not allowing in basic foodstuffs, medicine and even schoolbooks for the kids, Israel is practicing collective punishment on the people of Gaza and if people weren't dying because of it it would be laughable. It's illegal and the sooner they are made to answer for these war crimes the better.

"When have lentil bombs been going off lately? Is someone going to kill you with a piece of macaroni?" asked Congressman Brian Laird. It was only after Senator John Kerry, the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, raised the issue with Defence Minister Ehud Barak after their trip last month that Israel allowed the pasta in. Macaroni was considered a luxury item, not a humanitarian necessity, they were told. The total number of products blacklisted by Israel remains a mystery for UN officials and the relief agencies which face long delays in bringing in supplies. For security reasons such items as cement and steel rods are banned as they could be used by Hamas to build bunkers or the rockets used to target Israeli civilians. Hearing aids have been banned in case the mercury in their batteries could be used to produce chemical weapons." :rolleyes:
"Yet since the end of the war in January, according to non-government organisations, five truckloads of school notebooks were turned back at the crossing at Kerem Shalom where goods are subject to a $1,000 (£700) per truck "handling fee".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-pasta-paper-and-hearing-aids-that-could-threaten-israeli-security-1635143.html

paulaa · 07-03-2009 3:10pm

the_syco wrote: »

When you say they, do you mean Hamas, or the Israeli government?

In this case Israel, but the same applies to Hamas. They're much of a muchness at this stage.

NaZionist · 07-03-2009 3:16pm

Offy wrote: »

Who tells Israel what food Jews can eat?

God. Google "Kosher" if you don't belive me.

Manic Moran · 07-03-2009 3:52pm

As a thought, pasta was considered to be one of Italy's great handicaps in WWII. Given their rations were so pasta-oriented, it made them the highest consumers of water out of all the armies. I believe lentils have the same problem. It could be that the restriction is a way of forcing water efficiency?

NTM

paulaa · 07-03-2009 4:54pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

As a thought, pasta was considered to be one of Italy's great handicaps in WWII. Given their rations were so pasta-oriented, it made them the highest consumers of water out of all the armies. I believe lentils have the same problem. It could be that the restriction is a way of forcing water efficiency?

NTM

You're really scraping the barrel with this one MM. lol
However you have a point, there's no point in sending pasta into the Gaza strip because for 2 years Israel has been rationing the supply. Then they bombed the filtration and sewage treatment plants so most of the time they have nothing to cook it in anyway. A bit like in the WB where Israelis are allowed over 3 times more water than the Palestinians :rolleyes:

You may be interested in these articles

Boycott of Israel is starting to bite
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/178165-Boycott-of-Israel-is-starting-to-bite

Gaza homes destruction 'wanton'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7926413.stm

wes · 07-03-2009 10:34pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

As a thought, pasta was considered to be one of Italy's great handicaps in WWII. Given their rations were so pasta-oriented, it made them the highest consumers of water out of all the armies. I believe lentils have the same problem. It could be that the restriction is a way of forcing water efficiency?

NTM

You have got to be kidding me here. Its pretty clear, why Israel is doing it, it is collective punishment of the entire population of Gaza, a small and petty act of revenge on 1.5 million people, including thousands of children. An act of state terrorism, of which there can be no excuses for.

Nodin · 07-03-2009 11:01pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

As a thought, pasta was considered to be one of Italy's great handicaps in WWII. Given their rations were so pasta-oriented, it made them the highest consumers of water out of all the armies. I believe lentils have the same problem. It could be that the restriction is a way of forcing water efficiency?

NTM

They restrict the water too, so....

paulaa · 07-03-2009 11:35pm

Nodin wrote: »

"Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad has resigned from his post to pave the way for the formation of a national unity government."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0307/mideast.html

A shame they didn't get rid of Abbas. However these moves towards unity are a good thing.

I think Abbas's term of office is over anyway, so hopefully a new unity government will elect someone who will not allow himself to be undermined by the US and Israel. Abbas was a disaster who was more interested in looking out for himself than the interests of the people he was supposed to be serving. He did nothing about the wall, the demolitions, evictions or the settlement building going on under his nose.

I wonder if they have a strong leader next time, will the Israelis think it's ok to bomb East Jerusalem because they don't agree with the people's choice .

Nodin · 08-03-2009 1:59pm

paulaa wrote: »

I think Abbas's term of office is over anyway, so hopefully a new unity government will elect someone who will not allow himself to be undermined by the US and Israel. Abbas was a disaster who was more interested in looking out for himself than the interests of the people he was supposed to be serving. He did nothing about the wall, the demolitions, evictions or the settlement building going on under his nose.

I wonder if they have a strong leader next time, will the Israelis think it's ok to bomb East Jerusalem because they don't agree with the people's choice .

Ideally they'll trade Shalit for Barghouti. Appointing him will probably have them isolated, but he'll at least lead a united resistance and stop the encroachment on the West Bank.

paulaa · 08-03-2009 9:10pm

Nodin wrote: »

Ideally they'll trade Shalit for Barghouti. Appointing him will probably have them isolated, but he'll at least lead a united resistance and stop the encroachment on the West Bank.

I don't know if they would agree to Barghouti's release because if anyone can unite the Palestinians it's him. That may not suit Israel because their divide and conquer approach

Nodin · 08-03-2009 10:40pm

paulaa wrote: »

I don't know if they would agree to Barghouti's release because if anyone can unite the Palestinians it's him. That may not suit Israel because their divide and conquer approach

It doesn't suit Abbas either, but as Hamas have Shalit, its not out of the question.

paulaa · 09-03-2009 2:54pm

The Viva Palestina Aid convoy has just crossed the Rafah border crossing into Gaza .
300 people, 100 trucks, over £1 million worth of medicine , food and toys travelled over 5,000 miles to get there.
Well done to them all !!!

Manic Moran · 09-03-2009 6:03pm

You're really scraping the barrel with this one MM. lol

People were saying that they couldn't see a logical reason for the prohibition. I provided one based on a historical fact. I didn't say it was a fair reason from the Palestinian point of view, but it is a logical one.

Israel has to let food through, I don't recall any rules saying they couldn't choose which types of food had to be let through. By restricting the amount of water-using food which is used, that's less water that they need to pipe through as well to make the food usable. If Israel is providing what water they do let into the country, who's paying for it?

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. In the larger scheme of things, I agree with you, I think it's a rather daft restriction. If the Palestinians want to be inefficient with their water supplies by boiling it, that's their lookout.

NTM

paulaa · 11-03-2009 11:47pm

This is now going from the ridiculous to the sublime !!! Is this plain stupidity or is it done with malice and sadistic intent ?

"JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The United States is protesting to Israel over seemingly random restrictions on deliveries to the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip of harmless goods such as soap and toilet paper, diplomats said Wednesday.

Diplomats fear day-to-day crisis management on Gaza was diverting the United States and other Western governments from bigger issues like the goal of restarting peace negotiations for a Palestinian state.

In one case, Israel blocked for weeks a World Food Program (WFP) shipment of chickpeas, used to make the Palestinian food staple hummus, the U.N. food agency said.

"We're certainly asking the Israelis questions about this," a U.S. official said of the restrictions on what is allowed into Gaza.
A Western official said: "The Americans and international NGOs (non-governmental organizations) are raising their concerns... We're protesting."

Israel says it has opened Gaza's border crossings to larger amounts of food and medicine since a January military offensive that killed about 1,300 Palestinians, destroyed 5,000 homes and left large swathes of the coastal enclave in ruins.

But U.S. and Western officials complain the limited list of humanitarian goods that Israel allows into Gaza changes almost daily, creating major logistical problems for aid groups and donor governments which are unable to plan ahead.

Protests have been made to Israel via diplomatic channels, and have increased since last week's visit by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, U.S. and Western officials said.

"It is totally surreal," one European diplomat said of Israeli decision-making. "One day we had 600 kg (1,300 pounds) of pasta at the Kerem Shalom crossing but they said, 'Today, pasta can't go in'."

Another Western diplomat said: "It's ever-changing. One week jam is okay and the next week it's not."

In addition to soap and toilet paper, the officials cited restrictions that come and go on imports of certain types of cheeses, toothbrushes and toothpaste." Continued .....

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52A5TA20090311

ldl1949 · 12-03-2009 11:00am

paulaa wrote: »

This is now going from the ridiculous to the sublime !!! Is this plain stupidity or is it done with malice and sadistic intent ?

"JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The United States is protesting to Israel over seemingly random restrictions on deliveries to the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip of harmless goods such as soap and toilet paper, diplomats said Wednesday.

Diplomats fear day-to-day crisis management on Gaza was diverting the United States and other Western governments from bigger issues like the goal of restarting peace negotiations for a Palestinian state.

In one case, Israel blocked for weeks a World Food Program (WFP) shipment of chickpeas, used to make the Palestinian food staple hummus, the U.N. food agency said.

"We're certainly asking the Israelis questions about this," a U.S. official said of the restrictions on what is allowed into Gaza.
A Western official said: "The Americans and international NGOs (non-governmental organizations) are raising their concerns... We're protesting."

Israel says it has opened Gaza's border crossings to larger amounts of food and medicine since a January military offensive that killed about 1,300 Palestinians, destroyed 5,000 homes and left large swathes of the coastal enclave in ruins.

But U.S. and Western officials complain the limited list of humanitarian goods that Israel allows into Gaza changes almost daily, creating major logistical problems for aid groups and donor governments which are unable to plan ahead.

Protests have been made to Israel via diplomatic channels, and have increased since last week's visit by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, U.S. and Western officials said.

"It is totally surreal," one European diplomat said of Israeli decision-making. "One day we had 600 kg (1,300 pounds) of pasta at the Kerem Shalom crossing but they said, 'Today, pasta can't go in'."

Another Western diplomat said: "It's ever-changing. One week jam is okay and the next week it's not."

In addition to soap and toilet paper, the officials cited restrictions that come and go on imports of certain types of cheeses, toothbrushes and toothpaste." Continued .....

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52A5TA20090311

I don't understand except for human rights which doesn't really apply here as the nation which is being help (or allowed to do something) is an aggressor which would not have given the same curtsy if the situation was reversed. why does Israel ""owe"" them any thing?

and about the restrictions, I agree it is completely ridicules! but that is because every thing is run throw useless diplomats and politicians and should be fixed.

wes · 12-03-2009 11:01am

paulaa wrote: »

This is now going from the ridiculous to the sublime !!! Is this plain stupidity or is it done with malice and sadistic intent ?

You got it right with "malice and sadistic intent". It is nothing short of absurd how petty Israel is acting.

Steviemak · 12-03-2009 12:57pm

ldl1949 wrote: »

I don't understand except for human rights which doesn't really apply here as the nation which is being help (or allowed to do something) is an aggressor which would not have given the same curtsy if the situation was reversed. why does Israel ""owe"" them any thing?

and about the restrictions, I agree it is completely ridicules! but that is because every thing is run throw useless diplomats and politicians and should be fixed.

Coherent english would be nice - I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Otacon · 12-03-2009 1:16pm

ldl1949 wrote: »

I don't understand except for human rights which doesn't really apply here as the nation which is being help (or allowed to do something) is an aggressor which would not have given the same curtsy if the situation was reversed. why does Israel ""owe"" them any thing?

and about the restrictions, I agree it is completely ridicules! but that is because every thing is run throw useless diplomats and politicians and should be fixed.

Steviemak wrote: »

Coherent english would be nice - I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

What I can garner is human rights don't apply because the nation is an aggressor, who would not, in his opinion, offer the same human rights back. No support for this claim, just opinion.

He also beilieves that the article, posted by paulaa, suggests the Israeli government 'owe' the Palestinians something. Israel doesn't 'owe' the Palestinians soap and toilet paper, they simply need to allow the other groups and nations that want to provide them to the people of Gaza the opportunity.

ldl1949 · 12-03-2009 4:11pm

Otacon wrote: »

What I can garner is human rights don't apply because the nation is an aggressor, who would not, in his opinion, offer the same human rights back. No support for this claim, just opinion.

He also beilieves that the article, posted by paulaa, suggests the Israeli government 'owe' the Palestinians something. Israel doesn't 'owe' the Palestinians soap and toilet paper, they simply need to allow the other groups and nations that want to provide them to the people of Gaza the opportunity.

why do they "Need" (I wont use owe) to give or allow the Palestinians anything?

need = opinion

Otacon · 12-03-2009 4:24pm

ldl1949 wrote: »

why do they "Need" (I wont use owe) to give or allow the Palestinians anything?

need = opinion

1. Palestinians are not their enemy.
2. The nations of the world won't (read: shouldn't) stand by while Israel continues to place sanctions on Gaza, an area that needs all the aid it can get.
3. Israel are blocking soap and toilet paper. Read again, SOAP and TOILET PAPER! What is the point in denying people these things?

bobbyjoe · 12-03-2009 4:34pm

ldl1949 wrote: »

why do they "Need" (I wont use owe) to give or allow the Palestinians anything?

need = opinion

To behave like human beings perhaps.

ldl1949 · 12-03-2009 4:45pm

Otacon wrote: »

1. Palestinians are not their enemy.

My bad, I forgot daily rockets and anti demonstrations are a friendly gesture.

2. The nations of the world won't (read: shouldn't) stand by while Israel continues to place sanctions on Gaza, an area that needs all the aid it can get.

why? its a fight between two country's... it just happens that one of them is strong and the other will not back off for their own good.

3. Israel are blocking soap and toilet paper. Read again, SOAP and TOILET PAPER! What is the point in denying people these things?

with this I all ready said I agree and should stop with the nonsense, but all over the world people suffer even in their own country from bad bureaucratical rules that make no sense at all.

ldl1949 · 12-03-2009 4:47pm

bobbyjoe wrote: »

To behave like human beings perhaps.

Do I really need to tell what human beings are like...

actually if you ask me Israel is too busy acting like human being (on the one side), instead of trying to solve the problem.

they kiss of one side and punch the other.

but that is caused because there is half the country that wants peace and think it is possible and half the country that believe there will never be peace as Palestine will never rest until they get Israel back, so they might as well live by keeping the Palestinians in tight control.

again Ide like to point out how I enjoy the fact that some of you seem to have a one sided glass that shows only Israel... did you ever stop to think wait maybe there is a reason why they are doing all this... because I know why the Palestinians are doing what they do.

wes · 12-03-2009 4:54pm

ldl1949 wrote: »

My bad, I forgot daily rockets and anti demonstrations are a friendly gesture.

The children in the Gaza strip are not firing rockets firstly, but Israel decided to punish them as well.

As for demonstrations, I think the Palestinians have every right to peacefully demonstrate against people who are colonizing what little they have left of there land.

ldl1949 wrote: »

why? its a fight between two country's... it just happens that one of them is strong and the other will not back off for their own good.

I know, Israel really need to stop colonizing Palestinian land.

ldl1949 wrote: »

with this I all ready said I agree and should stop with the nonsense, but all over the world people suffer even in their own country from bad bureaucratical rules that make no sense at all.

What Israel is doing has feck all to do with bureaucracy. Its petty and childish revenge.

1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

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