1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

Nodin

KINGVictor wrote: »

fact that they indirectly control US and UK politics.

I dont need to explain their influence on US politics...in the UK
The speaker,Justice minister,Lord mandelson -Business secretary ( and also the de-facto acting prime minister) are all Jewish.

This may be a shock but they aren't 'all the same', you know...Some of the best critics of Israeli policy are Jewish.

wes

Sand wrote: »

TBH, the comments Wes was referring to dont really support his case:

Livni was commentating on the differentiation between Jewish Israelis and Israeli Arabs - she made the point that the Hamas described the murder of an Israeli Arab in an attack as an attack on a Zionist. Hence she made the point that Hamas does not differentiate between Israelis on the basis of creed or race and that Israelis should not do so either.

I dont think Wes would strongly disagree with that.

So the Israeli's are just as bad as Hamas then. Maybe they should both be treated the same then.

Also, she is talking about the indiscrminate nature of Hamas's attacks, and how Israel should do the same e.g. they won't discriminate between civilians and a militant, the race thing makes very little sense as Gaza is almost all Palestinian. Now, the funny thing is that they have been pretty damn indicriminate before there was even such a thing as Hamas.

Sand wrote: »

Also, the article Nodin linked noted that Major-General Gadi Eisenkot has no authority to make policy for Israel and was not in command of Israels operations in Gaza - he was deployed in the north guarding against Hezbollah in Lebanon and made his comments in that context. He wasnt even talking about Gaza.

No doubt, there are ruthless people within the Israeli leadership and the IDF who will carry out and reconcile atrocities with their own morality. But theres a hell of a lot of propaganda too.

So the Israeli's are ready to destroy entire Lebanese villages instead. Doesn't exactly make them any better now does it?!? So if there willing to destroy a village in Lebanon, it wouldn't be a huge leap for them to do the same in Gaza.

Sand

Also, she is talking about the indiscrminate nature of Hamas's attacks, and how Israel should do the same e.g. they won't discriminate between civilians and a militant, the race thing makes very little sense as Gaza is almost all Palestinian. Now, the funny thing is that they have been pretty damn indicriminate before there was even such a thing as Hamas.

Have you read the link Nodin provided?

She was talking in the Knesset to Israeli politicians who were differentiating between Israeli Arabs and Israeli Jews. She was saying they shouldnt do that.

Really, theres plenty of bad and terrible things Israeli leaders have said but this is not one of them.

So the Israeli's are ready to destroy entire Lebanese villages instead. Doesn't exactly make them any better now does it?!? So if there willing to destroy a village in Lebanon, it wouldn't be a huge leap for them to do the same in Gaza.

I have no idea what the Major General was saying - as pointed out above the context of a statement can be important. Livnis statement was presented as a call for indiscriminate attacks on all Palestinians, civillian and fighter alike. But actually, it had nothing to do with that and indeed was actually a very agreeable statement.

Again, Id like to see the Major Generals full statement and indeed the context in which he made such remarks before accepting an interpretation of them that has already been shown to be faulty.

Seriously Wes, you have to remember there is a war going on and there is very serious and pervasive propaganda efforts on all sides.

dublincelt

Ares Vast Hog wrote: »

LOL, you don't know me or my posts/view's on Israel very well do you?.

And btw, don't be hating on all Jew's just because you disapprove of Israeli defensive actions against Palestinians terrorists or US/UK foreign policy.

.

My word. Idiotic Quote of the year! Well done! :eek:

dublincelt

Ares Vast Hog wrote: »

LOL, you don't know me or my posts/view's on Israel very well do you?.

And btw, don't be hating on all Jew's just because you disapprove of Israeli defensive actions against Palestinians terrorists or US/UK foreign policy.

.

Hey Ares Vast Hog, please see the result of Isreal DEFENDING herself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lVCAUBpG3w

oscarBravo

Hey dublincelt, please read the charter.

dublincelt

oscarBravo wrote: »

Hey dublincelt, please read the charter.

Hey Oscar Bravo, the forum charter forbids me to respond to a poster's quote I take issue with? Really???!! :rolleyes:

wes

Sand wrote: »

Have you read the link Nodin provided?

She was talking in the Knesset to Israeli politicians who were differentiating between Israeli Arabs and Israeli Jews. She was saying they shouldnt do that.

Really, theres plenty of bad and terrible things Israeli leaders have said but this is not one of them.

Really? Her statement seems odd considering she said the following around the same time:

"Among other things I will also be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel... and tell them: 'Your national aspirations lie elsewhere.'"


Now in the same article, she tries to say that she wasn't talking about transfer, but tbh what the hell else could she have been talking about. So she seems the typical politician I guess.

Sand wrote: »

I have no idea what the Major General was saying - as pointed out above the context of a statement can be important. Livnis statement was presented as a call for indiscriminate attacks on all Palestinians, civillian and fighter alike. But actually, it had nothing to do with that and indeed was actually a very agreeable statement.

Again, Id like to see the Major Generals full statement and indeed the context in which he made such remarks before accepting an interpretation of them that has already been shown to be faulty.

Seriously Wes, you have to remember there is a war going on and there is very serious and pervasive propaganda efforts on all sides.

I would it very hard for the context of his statement to change things personally. However, seeing as the first quote was misleading, the second may have been as well.

dublincelt

And btw, don't be hating on all Jew's just because you disapprove of Israeli defensive actions against Palestinians terrorists or US/UK foreign policy.

Defensive actions indeed, For anyone that cares about humanity the report below is shocking but not surprising..

From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8149464.stm

BlaasForRafa

palestinians and their paranoid fantasy conspiracy theories... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090714/tod-hamas-says-israel-dumping-aphrodisia-7f81b96.html

BlaasForRafa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

palestinians and their paranoid fantasy conspiracy theories...

Even by the high standards of the Middle East conflict, that is particularly nuts!

BlaasForRafa

Deleted User wrote: »

Even by the high standards of the Middle East conflict, that is particularly nuts!

Perhaps it never occurred to them that their kids might just be randy?

dlofnep

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

palestinians and their paranoid fantasy conspiracy theories... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090714/tod-hamas-says-israel-dumping-aphrodisia-7f81b96.html

What's not nuts however is the new interview with various IDF soldiers who were told that everyone across the line was the enemy, and a shoot to kill policy was in order.

marcsignal

Norman says it better than i ever could...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGjwJNBRsi0

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

a shoot to kill policy was in order.

One side is shooting to kill, I guess the other isn't exactly firing rockets at civilians for peace. One can level criticisms at both.

dlofnep

Deleted User wrote: »

One side is shooting to kill, I guess the other isn't exactly firing rockets at civilians for peace. One can level criticisms at both.

The figures of civilians killed tell the whole story.

Besides, it's fair to question the integrity of an army which calls itself the most moral army in the world (IDF), when it shoots women and children without a blink of an eye, and uses Palestinians as human shields.

Make no mistake about it. This war is the fault of Israel. They are the ones who are occupying land and blocking economic, medicinal and food aid to Palestine. They are the ones expanding, their already illegal occupation.

Palestinians do NOT occupy Israel, nor do they infringe upon it's economic free-will. Israel needs to revert it's borders, stop acting like bullies and then something will be accomplished.

Could you imagine if Germany occupied Scotland, pushed all the people out, then started expanding it's border into northern English towns. Do you think England wouldn't be justified and Scotland wouldn't be justified in attacking? Of course not.. But when it's a bunch of arabs who don't have the power of the media, it's a whole different story.

Sand

Even by the high standards of the Middle East conflict, that is particularly nuts!

I dont know, there seems to be a great love of paranoid fantasies in the middle east - I remember that rumours got so far out of control in Iraq that a British Army spokesman had to officially come and state that, no, the British Army had not released man eating badgers into that part of Iraq to attack the locals.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well how else did the badgers get there?

Manic Moran

Russian bio-engineering. Released by the FSB partly for the experiment, and partly to try to discredit NATO.

NTM

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Palestinians do NOT occupy Israel, nor do they infringe upon it's economic free-will.

They do elect terrorists (though then again I guess so do Israel). Though not much of a choice seeing as Hamas just simply killed the opposition in the last civial war.

Is it true that to date Hamas has killed more Palestinians than they have killed Israelis? They should team up with the Israelis, finish off the civilians for once and for all, and have a lovely strip of ground for other Arab terrorists to practice on and launch attacks on Israel from, and they could go at it hammer and tongs.

whynotwhycanti

Deleted User wrote: »

They do elect terrorists (though then again I guess so do Israel). Though not much of a choice seeing as Hamas just simply killed the opposition in the last civial war.

Its not like they have much of a choice. They have been opressed for over 30 years by an illegal occupying force, some group comes along saying they will win them their freedom and they vote for them. If we are going to call hamas terrorists well then Israel are a perfect example of state terrorists. You cant have double standards here and i think operating a shoot to kill policy and using palestinians as human shields is a pretty good example of terrorist activity, not to mention all the atrocities they are perpetuating on a a daily basis.

whynotwhycanti

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Its not like they have much of a choice. They have been opressed for over 30 years by an illegal occupying force, some group comes along saying they will win them their freedom and they vote for them.

Well they had, Fatah, but then again Hamas just killed a lot of them.

Hamas have shown that they can be just as adept as the Israelis when it comes to treating Palestinian civilians as target practice.

whynotwhycanti

'Hamas have shown that they can be just as adept as the Israelis when it comes to treating Palestinian civilians as target practice'

Hamas may be as idept as the Israelis when it comes to treating Palestinian civilians as target pratcice but no way are they as successful or accurate as the IDF, with the IDF having the most sophisticated miltiary hardware in the planet after the US. There military is supplied and supported by the biggest miltary power in the world.

Also if we are to compare the two in terms of their treating of Palestinaina civilains, Israel are winning hands down. The level of civilian casualty and death casued by them is shocking but as they like to say, they are the most humane army in the world

Manic Moran

There military is supplied and supported by the biggest miltary power in the world

Not so much any more. I can think of more things that the Americans buy from Israel now than the Israelis buy from the Americans. The Israeli defence industry has been striving for independence for some time now, about the only thing that they contract out these days are ships (Germany) and aircraft (US). And Hummers. From rifles and ammunition through tanks and air-air-missiles, the Israelis have started building their own. They've quite the arms export industry now. Makes them some money.

NTM

whynotwhycanti

well if that is true, it would have been the continous support of the worlds greatest military power that has allowed them to be in such a position. I also would suggest that even if they are making their own arms now, it would still be with some financial backing from the US and also with the continous input of US weapons intelligience; to point them in the right direction so to speak.

And what should the US do, give them slingshots to make it fairer all round? The Yanks help one side, the Syrians and Iranians help another. Of course the US is a tad more advanced, but I guess the moral is pick your allies wisely. You wouldn't go to the puniest guy in the yard to help you take on the school bully. Not that I am defending Israeli action, but you won't find me playing any violins for Hamas either. The victims are Palestinian civilians, and to a lesser extent (in numbers) Israeli civilians who get killed by the terrorists on both sides. Though there seems to be a line of thought in the media here that somehow Hamas are freedom fighters or, to some extent, justified when they kill civilians, they are not...

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

Though there seems to be a line of thought in the media here that somehow Hamas are freedom fighters or, to some extent, justified when they kill civilians, they are not...

You will also find a similar line of taught being applied to Israel actions btw.

whynotwhycanti

American military is a tad bit more advanced, that’s the understatement of the year there and lets not mention Israel's nuclear arsenal.

Your analogy of a school bully is more accurate than you had intended because in this case Israel is the school bully oppressing the Palestinians with the illegal occupation of their country. They have been effectively bullying them for a couple decades now eventually causing the Palestinians to resort to suicide bombings, the first only occurring in 1993.

What amazes me is seeing Irish people being supportive of the Israelis or critical of the Palestinians. Have we not forgotten our own history? Is there much difference between the IRA and Hamas? They both bomb/bombed and kill/killed innocent people. But Hamas, just as the IRA are the direct consequence of a far stronger state illegally occupying their land. For every action their is a reaction and if Israel continue to occupy illegally Palestinian land and expand their settlements and borders(action), then Hamas and in the future many more groups will continue to fire rockets and use suicide bombers to retaliate(reaction).

Rob_l

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Have we not forgotten our own history? Is there much difference between the IRA and Hamas?


For every action their is a reaction

2 bits I take from your post the rest is naught but rhetoric.

Your right Hamas are like the IRA
and your right have we learned nothing but what i learned maybe different from you.

What I learned was that a program of terror by the IRA was not effective and the most impressive movements in Irish peace came during cease-fires and finally the biggest break through came when the IRA agreed to disband as an organisation.

And from the second part of oyur post, to every action there is a reaction your right but it is not a case of israel v palestine there are many other players in this game and many many reactions and not all of them are the state of Israels

DTrotter

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

American military is a tad bit more advanced, that’s the understatement of the year there and lets not mention Israel's nuclear arsenal.

Your analogy of a school bully is more accurate than you had intended because in this case Israel is the school bully oppressing the Palestinians with the illegal occupation of their country. They have been effectively bullying them for a couple decades now eventually causing the Palestinians to resort to suicide bombings, the first only occurring in 1993.

What amazes me is seeing Irish people being supportive of the Israelis or critical of the Palestinians. Have we not forgotten our own history? Is there much difference between the IRA and Hamas? They both bomb/bombed and kill/killed innocent people. But Hamas, just as the IRA are the direct consequence of a far stronger state illegally occupying their land. For every action their is a reaction and if Israel continue to occupy illegally Palestinian land and expand their settlements and borders(action), then Hamas and in the future many more groups will continue to fire rockets and use suicide bombers to retaliate(reaction).

And you have to realise there comes a point where you have to look at your actions and see are they working. They need a Gandhi type figure (cliche I know) but he never dressed babies as suicide bombers or blew up night clubs. I'm not defending Israel either, the place is a mess, full of religous nutters (I'd say in the near future we'll see more of the extreme Jews) that will never be sorted out.