1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

whynotwhycanti

I do not know what you are implying by saying we learnt different lessons but I never said I supported what the IRA did, I simply used it as an example as to why hamas are in power and to why they fire rockets. Also, those cease fires you talk about came about from a lot of international support, most notably the US. And now we have power sharing in the North, do you think the Israelis would ever give the Palestinians such power.

In the situation in the ME, the US and UK are supporting Israel and therefore no peace will be possible. We could disband Hamas and every group to follow but the Israelis are still expanding their territories illegally and this is main issue at hand. Every rocket fired by hamas, every suicide bomber recruited, all this is fueled by the Israelis illegal occupation and constant lack of respect for the life of Palestinians.

whynotwhycanti

'but he never dressed babies as suicide bombers or blew up night clubs'


Do you believe that these suicide bombers are some sort of division of Hamas. You should read about them because although they cause such devastation, they have a story that has led them to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up innocent people. Most are young women who have suffered the most unimaginable things. They have experienced suffering beyond comprehension and lost loved ones to the barbaric IDF. When they are recruited they have lost the will to live, they should be in a psychiatric ward getting proper help but instead are manipulated by scumbags in Hamas and end their lives in the most horrific way. Can anyone here comprehend how it must feel to think that the only way to solve there misery is to blow yourself up and kill more innocent people. Their story has been forgotten and they simply become a stat. Why and what has driven them to do such a terrible deed is never reported and the cycle therefore continues.

I do not condone what they do but it is too easy to criticise what they do. If half the people on here experienced a fraction what they have, they would just be as easily manipulated by Hamas and could end up doing something that they never thought possible.

Rob_l

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

I do not know what you are implying by saying we learnt different lessons but I never said I supported what the IRA did, I simply used it as an example as to why hamas are in power and to why they fire rockets. Also, those cease fires you talk about came about from a lot of international support, most notably the US. And now we have power sharing in the North, do you think the Israelis would ever give the Palestinians such power.

In the situation in the ME, the US and UK are supporting Israel and therefore no peace will be possible. We could disband Hamas and every group to follow but the Israelis are still expanding their territories illegally and this is main issue at hand. Every rocket fired by hamas, every suicide bomber recruited, all this is fueled by the Israelis illegal occupation and constant lack of respect for the life of Palestinians.

The fact is there is quite a bit more to it than ISrael being solely the evil empire here, yes they do commit many crimes and in this regard they are guilty. However that being said why would the israelis sit down to even to begin talks with an organisation that is not just sworn to free palestine but sworn to the the destruction of Israel and to the death of all jews.

Im sorry if I was jewish I do not see were we can begin to talk.

AS for lack of respect it has nothing to do wiht numbers here Israel have more power to respond and use it, but do not for one second think that if hamas had got half the firepower of the Israelis then this conflict would not be a whole lot worse.

I do no think that Hamas has anything to do with peace or event he best intentions of its people at heart when it commits its own atrocities.

I cannot see peace coming with the current Hamas, even if Israel stopped fighting I cannot see hamas stopping so where do we go from there?

Rob_l

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

'but he never dressed babies as suicide bombers or blew up night clubs'


Do you believe that these suicide bombers are some sort of division of Hamas that are easily recruited. You should read about them because although they cause such devastation, they have a story that has led them to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up innocent people. Most are young women who have suffered the most unimaginable things. They have experienced suffering beyond comprehension and lost loved ones to the barbaric IDF. When they are recruited they have lost the will to live, they should be in a psychiatric ward getting proper help but instead are manipulated by scumbags in Hamas and end their lives in the most horrific way. Can anyone here comprehend how it must feel to think that the only way to solve there misery is to blow yourself up and kill more innocent people. Their story has been forgotten and they simply become a stat. Why and what has driven them to do such a terrible deed is never reported and the cycle therefore continues.

I do not condone what they do but it is too easy to criticise what they do. If half the people on here experienced a fraction what they have, they would just be as easily manipulated by Hamas and could end up doing something that they never thought possible.

I dont comprehend?

Come now that is too easy to say and still no justification for violence not all those directing terrorism have great stories of loss and likewise Im sure I can find numerous horror stories from families of Jewish people killed considering the Arab world tried so unsuccessfully to eradicate them in the 1960's.

There is much more at play in this arab israel conflict than those stranded in the camps of west bank and gaza and not one jot of it will be solved by perpetuating a war against men of a different religions.

For no greater purpose than revenge that will only ultimately lead to more war to more death and to more children growing to seek revenge.

Ping Chow Chi

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not so much any more. I can think of more things that the Americans buy from Israel now than the Israelis buy from the Americans. The Israeli defence industry has been striving for independence for some time now, about the only thing that they contract out these days are ships (Germany) and aircraft (US). And Hummers. From rifles and ammunition through tanks and air-air-missiles, the Israelis have started building their own. They've quite the arms export industry now. Makes them some money.

NTM

Regardless of where the arms are made, 2.5 billion of the money spent on the militery is from the US taxpayers, I think this is what the poster was trying to get at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations

Israel, just like most other countries are dependent on arms and parts from numerous other countries. The UK cut a number of these contracts this month infact.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8147377.stm

whynotwhycanti

I am simply saying you should read about them and I don’t think you could comprehend what has led them to do such a terrible thing, nobody here can but the least you can do is read about their own loss to understand why they become suicide bombers. The fact is suicide bombers undertake a terrorist act, and most suicide bombers have experienced a terrorist act that has put them in that position. Its not about revenge, its about Palestinians being so dejected that they can be talked into killing themselves. I am not talking about the Hamas members who recruit these women, as I say I wouldn’t ever condone their actions, but the people they recruit have experienced indescribable actions by Israel. You say it is too easy to say a refugee has experienced loss and therefore becomes a suicide bomber. As I mentioned, its not an easy process, it took thirty years for the first suicide bombers to appear.

And I beg to differ, the most important thing about this conflict is the people stranded in these refugee camps. They have no home, live in the most deplorable conditions, and all have lost family members to the ‘moral’ IDF. They are restricted in every aspect of their life, we are now witnessing young children being born into these camps, they know no other life. You think that it is revenge that will keep this conflict going. Israel has set up the most perfect conditions for Hamas to recruit as many supporters as they want. It’s the ultimate quagmire. I don’t doubt Israelis have terrible stories to tell and have experienced loss also, but it is fraction in comparison to their Arab neighbors.

whynotwhycanti

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Is there much difference between the IRA and Hamas?

Nope, both murdering scumbags imo.

wes

Rob_l wrote: »

The fact is there is quite a bit more to it than ISrael being solely the evil empire here, yes they do commit many crimes and in this regard they are guilty. However that being said why would the israelis sit down to even to begin talks with an organisation that is not just sworn to free palestine but sworn to the the destruction of Israel and to the death of all jews.

Im sorry if I was jewish I do not see were we can begin to talk.

Hamas came into existence in the late 1980's, long after the start of the conflict. The Israeli's wouldn't talk to the PLO lead by Fatah for years as well btw.

You could also apply the same logic to the Palestinians, why would they want to talk to a country that stole (and still is stealing) there land, occupying them and killing them etc.

Sure, both sides can decide to be unreasonable, and they can even provide pretty good reasons for it, but such a position will only lead to perpetuating the conflict.

Also, why you do associate all Jew's with Israel and then condemn Hamas for doing the same?

Nodin

Rob_l wrote: »

The fact is there is quite a bit more to it than ISrael being solely the evil empire here, yes they do commit many crimes and in this regard they are guilty. However that being said why would the israelis sit down to even to begin talks with an organisation that is not just sworn to free palestine but sworn to the the destruction of Israel and to the death of all jews.

Four members of a group of ultra-orthodox Jews opposed to the existence of Israel have visited Hamas in Gaza. The men, clad in the traditional ultra-orthodox garb of black hats and coats and with long side-curls in their hair, met Hamas leader Ismail Haniya.
The Neturei Karta believe that a Jewish state can only be established by the Messiah and thus denounce Israel as heretic and embrace its enemies.
Mr Haniya welcomed them, saying Hamas rejects Zionist ideology, not Jews.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8155350.stm