1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

Nodin

munchester29 wrote: »

The Israelis have already stated that their goal is to stop Hamas from firing rockets and mortar shells into Israel – not to get rid of Hamas altogether.

Wasn't olmert talking about a "war to the end"?

munchester29

Nodin wrote: »

Wasn't olmert talking about a "war to the end"?

Yes, to end the rocket firing.

VO

Hamas are a bunch of terrorists and need to be delat with as such. The Israeli actions against this terrorist organisation are right. The only way to dela with terrorists is to crush them.

eoin5

VO wrote: »

Hamas are a bunch of terrorists and need to be delat with as such. The Israeli actions against this terrorist organisation are right. The only way to dela with terrorists is to crush them.

To crush them is to create them. Simple cycles of hatred.

IRISH RAIL

But when ordinary palestinians see the career prospects in Hamas arent great they will go to a party that will back peace

Nodin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

But when ordinary palestinians see the career prospects in Hamas arent great they will go to a party that will back peace

but if its a party or faction the US/Israel dissaprove it'll end up back at square one.

IRISH RAIL

Nodin wrote: »

but if its a party or faction the US/Israel dissaprove it'll end up back at square one.

or one hamas dont approve of

dresden8

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

But when ordinary palestinians see the career prospects in Hamas arent great they will go to a party that will back peace

Hey, it worked for the black and tans.

patser grey

Three children have been killed in an Israeli airstrike as they played in a street in southern Gaza.

Now imagine it was the other way round, imagine it was three Israeli children that were killed by a Hamas attack, the pro Israeli mouths on here and elsewhere would be calling for and justifying an Israeli no holds barred onslaught,by all means possible, but its not, and because it was the IDF that did this, it becomes "collateral damage", they de-humanise,sanitize try to disinfect, their evil crimes with terminology bullsheet.
Mairt..I read a post by you earlier about your concerns for your childrens safety lastnight when you had intruders, and another post by yourself defending and applauding Israeli actions, how your biased towards Israel, they can do no wrong in your eyes.
Now imagine in this crazy world, that these two intruders you had lastnight happened to be homeless, imagine some crackpot "power that be" decided that because society has'nt treated these two that well in the past, that they were entitled to a home of their own, one of them points at your house and says "my granny used to live there", the power that be decides as their entitled to a house, and he claims his granny once lived there, they can have your house. You come home to find your wife and children outside the gate, cold, hungry and wet, crying in despair, you look in your window, the two boys have their feet up, munching away, flicking through the box, adjusting the thermostat, making it nice and cosy, you walk into your garden, one of them gets up and shouts out the window "fukkoff your not allowed in here!", what would you do?, how would you feel?, would you feel any anger, imagine you were as brazen as to shout back at him, now imagine the powers that be decide your a threat to them and give them guns to defend their power that be given rights, in your righteous anger you raise a fist, and throw a stone through your window at the two intruders living in your home, they come to the door, shoot and kill your wife and children, would you be angry?
Now imagine turning to your neighbours for support,some have some sympathy for you, but most say you were wrong, you shouldnt have started trouble and on top of that the powers that be put your name on the trouble maker list, which means your extended family were barred from buying food, visiting a doctor, hospital or dentist, were banned from working, earning a living, how would you feel if this was your reality, would you be angry?. Would you do as you were told and go up the road and live in a shed or tent, what would you do?.
Then how would you feel when you heard people say that you got what you deserved?
This is a fictional story based on a true event, but it didnt happen to a family, it happened to a people, the Palestinian people.

IRISH RAIL

Maybe if they had a "government" that cared for the palestinian people that would never have happened

The three Palestinian children killed in Gaza on Tuesday were only playing near rocket launchers targeted by Israeli troops, and were not connected with the terrorists, an army probe determined Thursday

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/899414.html

Israel Doesnt target kids playing on the street unlike hamas who target anything and everything.

Boston

patser grey wrote: »

Three children have been killed in an Israeli airstrike as they played in a street in southern Gaza.

Now imagine it was the other way round, imagine it was three Israeli children that were killed by a Hamas attack, the pro Israeli mouths on here and elsewhere would be calling for and justifying an Israeli no holds barred onslaught,by all means possible, but its not, and because it was the IDF that did this, it becomes "collateral damage", they de-humanise,sanitize try to disinfect, their evil crimes with terminology bullsheet.
Mairt..I read a post by you earlier about your concerns for your childrens safety lastnight when you had intruders, and another post by yourself defending and applauding Israeli actions, how your biased towards Israel, they can do no wrong in your eyes.
Now imagine in this crazy world, that these two intruders you had lastnight happened to be homeless, imagine some crackpot "power that be" decided that because society has'nt treated these two that well in the past, that they were entitled to a home of their own, one of them points at your house and says "my granny used to live there", the power that be decides as their entitled to a house, and he claims his granny once lived there, they can have your house. You come home to find your wife and children outside the gate, cold, hungry and wet, crying in despair, you look in your window, the two boys have their feet up, munching away, flicking through the box, adjusting the thermostat, making it nice and cosy, you walk into your garden, one of them gets up and shouts out the window "fukkoff your not allowed in here!", what would you do?, how would you feel?, would you feel any anger, imagine you were as brazen as to shout back at him, now imagine the powers that be decide your a threat to them and give them guns to defend their power that be given rights, in your righteous anger you raise a fist, and throw a stone through your window at the two intruders living in your home, they come to the door, shoot and kill your wife and children, would you be angry?
Now imagine turning to your neighbours for support,some have some sympathy for you, but most say you were wrong, you shouldnt have started trouble and on top of that the powers that be put your name on the trouble maker list, which means your extended family were barred from buying food, visiting a doctor, hospital or dentist, were banned from working, earning a living, how would you feel if this was your reality, would you be angry?. Would you do as you were told and go up the road and live in a shed or tent, what would you do?.
Then how would you feel when you heard people say that you got what you deserved?
This is a fictional story based on a true event, but it didnt happen to a family, it happened to a people, the Palestinian people.

Now, lets imagine the intruder is the Roman empire and your children are Jesus plus his followers. Lets make up irrelevant scenarios.

dublincelt

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Maybe if they had a "government" that cared for the palestinian people that would never have happened

The three Palestinian children killed in Gaza on Tuesday were only playing near rocket launchers targeted by Israeli troops, and were not connected with the terrorists, an army probe determined Thursday

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/899414.html

Israel Doesnt target kids playing on the street unlike hamas who target anything and everything.

Oh get real would ya!! You are honestly deluded if you think that Israel does not target kids. Kids tend to get killed when you fire AGM-144 Hellfire missiles into crowded buildings. How many kids have been killed in the last seven days? Too ****ing many! Israel are cowards and murdering scum. Shame on you for supporting the Nazi's!

dublincelt

VO wrote: »

Hamas are a bunch of terrorists and need to be delat with as such. The Israeli actions against this terrorist organisation are right. The only way to dela with terrorists is to crush them.

The main terrorists of the piece over the past week are the Nazi's indescrimately targetting civillians!

mikemac

dublincelt wrote: »

Oh get real would ya!! You are honestly deluded if you think that Israel does not target kids. Kids tend to get killed when you fire AGM-144 Hellfire missiles into crowded buildings. How many kids have been killed in the last seven days? Too ****ing many! Israel are cowards and murdering scum. Shame on you for supporting the Nazi's!

You are comparing the Israeli's to Nazis?
Could you come with a worse comparison?

dublincelt wrote: »

The main terrorists of the piece over the past week are the Nazi's indescrimately targetting civillians!

And the Hamas rockets target where exactly?

Ciaran500

dublincelt wrote: »

The main terrorists of the piece over the past week are the Nazi's indescrimately targetting civillians!

Only Hamas have been indiscriminately targeting civilians...

dublincelt

mikemac wrote: »

You are comparing the Israeli's to Nazis?
Could you come with a worse comparison?

I absolutely am comparing the actions of the Israeli cabinet to that of Nazi's.
Absolutely. Is that clear enough for you?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

dublincelt

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Only Hamas have been indiscriminately targeting civilians...

Would you care to give me the death toll over the past seven days?

dublincelt

mikemac wrote: »

You are comparing the Israeli's to Nazis?
Could you come with a worse comparison?



And the Hamas rockets target where exactly?

Will Israels actions achieve peace in your view? I wish there was no violence. But killing 460+ that you have been starving for the past year will not stop the rockets.

Ciaran500

dublincelt wrote: »

Would you care to give me the death toll over the past seven days?

The IDF have been firing on Hamas positions in highly built up areas. The is not "indiscriminately targeting civilians"

Hamas are firing unguided rockets into highly built up areas. This is "indiscriminately targeting civilians"

arybvtcw0eolkf

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

I read somewhere that hamas wants to keep him alive for barganing purposes in the future
but realisticly speaking (I think im one of the first to say this)
he is probably already dead (if either he was held in a building that was attacked or the elected government of gaza killed him before hand )

Most likely he'd have been killed either immediately or within the first few hours of captivity.

The Palestinians won't care and will use the remains of the dead as a bargaining tool, and believe it just as valuable too just as they have done, and continue to do with Private Kevin Joyce.

Politically this crisis is welcomed by the majority of Middle Eastern governments who also see it as dealing a death blow to Hamas.

dublincelt

Ciaran500 wrote: »

The IDF have been firing on Hamas positions in highly built up areas. The is not "indiscriminately targeting civilians"

Hamas are firing unguided rockets into highly built up areas. This is "indiscriminately targeting civilians"

A 1 ton bomb used to kill Nizar Ryyan also killed his family including his 10 children. That is targeting children. The IOF would have known by bombing his house, there would have been kids there. Blown to bits by an American made bomb.

Ciaran500

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733139262&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
The IDF said it had called the house before the strike and warned the family to leave.

http://www.euronews.net/en/article/01/01/2009/senior-hamas-leader-killed-in-israeli-air-strike/
Hamas Radio said Rayyan rejected advice to leave his home.

Yep, they really wanted to kill the children.

dublincelt

Ciaran500 wrote: »

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733139262&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
The IDF said it had called the house before the strike and warned the family to leave.

Yep, they really wanted to kill the children.

Ha ha. The call must have went something like this,

Hello this is the IDF we are going to bomb your house. Dont tell mr Ryyan as we want to kill him. Leave as quickly as you can because we are going to use a 1 ton bomb and there may be colleteral damage.

What a load of CRAP!!

Mr.Micro

Mairt wrote: »

Most likely he'd have been killed either immediately or within the first few hours of captivity.

The Palestinians won't care and will use the remains of the dead as a bargaining tool, and believe it just as valuable too just as they have done, and continue to do with Private Kevin Joyce.

Politically this crisis is welcomed by the majority of Middle Eastern governments who also see it as dealing a death blow to Hamas.

Hamas got themselves into this mess and are being hammered, but alas also the Palestinian people whom they hide behind. What they hoped to achieve is not clear but their approach has suicide written all over it and has set back the Palestinian cause years, not to mention lives and what little infrastructure Gaza had all destroyed. Well done Hamas.

Ciaran500

dublincelt wrote: »

Ha ha. The call must have went something like this,

Hello this is the IDF we are going to bomb your house. Dont tell mr Ryyan as we want to kill him. Leave as quickly as you can because we are going to use a 1 ton bomb and there may be colleteral damage.

What a load of CRAP!!

And what about the Hamas radio source? Rayyan had a chance to save his family, instead he hid behind them.

arybvtcw0eolkf

dublincelt wrote: »

Will Israels actions achieve peace in your view? I wish there was no violence. But killing 460+ that you have been starving for the past year will not stop the rockets.

I'm loath to reply to you in light of your comments above, but I'll try.

Will bombing Hamas targets in Gaza bring peace?.. No, it won't.

Going to war for peace is like fvcking for virginity, it won't happen.

But it might stop the rocket attacks or severely damage Hamas ability to randomly target Israeli population centre's. If thats successful well then it will be seen that the end justifies the mean's.

People talk about disporportional force being used against Hamas, of course its disporportional thats how battles are suppose to be fought.

I've posted this on another thread...

In battles not everything has an opposite and EQUAL reaction, if it did no one would win battles.

Usually the side who can bring the greatest force to bare against his enemies will win the battle, it happens in war both global and even between two children fighting in the playground.

Its tough, its nasty but thats how it is.

Hamas's actions against Israel has brought this battle to its people, not the other way around.

dublincelt

Ciaran500 wrote: »

And what about the Hamas radio source? Rayyan had a chance to save his family, instead he hid behind them.

There is a big difference between being called directly by the IOF to leave the home. Or being warned by his own people to vacate the house for risk of being targeted. What a cowardly attack to flatten his home with his family inside it.

Ciaran500

dublincelt wrote: »

There is a big difference between being called directly by the IOF to leave the home. Or being warned by his own people to vacate the house for risk of being targeted.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052260.html

The IDF have frequently used this approach, its quite likely they did call before they bombed.

Also from that: Sources familiar with Ghayan's record said he was one of the people who encouraged Gazans to climb on rooftops to prevent bombings.

Nodin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

an army probe determined Thursday

O thats that sorted then.