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1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

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    #752
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Mairt wrote: »
    I'm loath to reply to you in light of your comments above, but I'll try.

    Will bombing Hamas targets in Gaza bring peace?.. No, it won't.

    Going to war for peace is like fvcking for virginity, it won't happen.

    But it might stop the rocket attacks or severely damage Hamas ability to randomly target Israeli population centre's. If thats successful well then it will be seen that the end justifies the mean's.

    People talk about disporportional force being used against Hamas, of course its disporportional thats how battles are suppose to be fought.

    I've posted this on another thread...

    In battles not everything has an opposite and EQUAL reaction, if it did no one would win battles.

    Usually the side who can bring the greatest force to bare against his enemies will win the battle, it happens in war both global and even between two children fighting in the playground.

    Its tough, its nasty but thats how it is.

    Hamas's actions against Israel has brought this battle to its people, not the other way around.

    I beg to differ on the last point. Israel's blockade on a sovereign territory and the starving of the people of Gaza has brought about this violence. Like it or not Hamas have been elected by the people. The killing of the last seven days has been to punish the people of Gaza for exercising their democratic right.


    When you say that usually the side that can bring the greatest force to bare against its enemies will win the battle. You display a lack of historical knowledge.
    Having a greater force to bare did not help the Americans in Vietnam, It did not help the russians in Afghanistan. It certainly did not help the Israeli forces in Lebanon. And it wont mean a thing in this current conflict.


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    #753
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Hamas got themselves into this mess and are being hammered, but alas also the Palestinian people whom they hide behind. What they hoped to achieve is not clear but their approach has suicide written all over it and has set back the Palestinian cause years, not to mention lives and what little infrastructure Gaza had all destroyed. Well done Hamas.

    Great, blame hamas for ISRAEL killing 460+ people. What a logic you have.


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    #754
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    dublincelt wrote: »

    When you say that usually the side that can bring the greatest force to bare against its enemies will win the battle. You display a lack of historical knowledge.
    Having a greater force to bare did not help the Americans in Vietnam, It did not help the russians in Afghanistan. It certainly did not help the Israeli forces in Lebanon. And it wont mean a thing in this current conflict.


    Your confusing winning war's with winning battles my friend.


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    #755
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    dublincelt wrote: »
    The killing of the last seven days has been to punish the people of Gaza for exercising their democratic right.

    Oh, I thought the thousands of rocket attacks by Hamas had something to do with the killings.


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    #756
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Oh, I thought the thousands of rocket attacks by Hamas had something to do with the killings.


    The thousands of rocket attacks...

    How many people have been killed exactly? Israel have created this mess with their sectarian state. Built on the farms of people now holed up in slums in Gaza.


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    #757
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Mairt wrote: »
    Your confusing winning war's with winning battles my friend.

    This battle will not be won by Israel's actions. And it may lead to a greater war in the region.


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    #758
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    dublincelt wrote: »
    How many people have been killed exactly?
    About 100 civilians in total.
    dublincelt wrote: »
    Israel have created this mess with their sectarian state. Built on the farms of people now holed up in slums in Gaza.
    I'm not arguing over the long history of fighting and land ownership in the area. But firing rockets at civilians is not going to achieve anything, they just pissed of the Israel's and pushed them to take military action.


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    #759
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    dublincelt wrote: »
    This battle will not be won by Israel's actions. And it may lead to a greater war in the region.



    History has shown that might not be such a bad thing, for Israel ;)

    As for winning this battle, Hamas should be very careful what it wishes for.

    A ground offensive by the IDF will be very costly for all sides. But Olmert will have learned from the last Lebanese war and will hand greater power's to his military commanders.

    Bringing a ground offensive against the Gaza might mean another occupation, at least until another more moderate Palestinian government can be installed.

    This would suit Israel, its neighbours and make it easier for the USA/Barak government to work towards to peaceful resolution in the region.


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    #760
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    the isrealies are swatting a fly with a bomb. it's punishing the palistinian people with the handy cover of going after the terrorists. they run the danger of loosing any sympathy they had in the past.


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    #761
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Mairt wrote: »
    History has shown that might not be such a bad thing, for Israel ;)

    As for winning this battle, Hamas should be very careful what it wishes for.

    A ground offensive by the IDF will be very costly for all sides. But Olmert will have learned from the last Lebanese war and will hand greater power's to his military commanders.

    Bringing a ground offensive against the Gaza might mean another occupation, at least until another more moderate Palestinian government can be installed.

    This would suit Israel, its neighbours and make it easier for the USA/Barak government to work towards to peaceful resolution in the region.

    Believe me the chance of the people of Gaza accepting a more moderate Palestinian government following a week of bombing is very very remote. Just like the christians supporting Nasrallah in Lebanon during Israels attacks there, The people of Gaza support Hamas now more than ever. And that for Israel is its biggest failure over the past week.


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    #762
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    dublincelt wrote: »
    The people of Gaza support Hamas now more than ever. And that for Israel is its biggest failure over the past week.

    Yeah that was declared about 500 posts back, so your a bit late.

    So dublincelt, if you were Israel how would you respond to the rocket attacks?
    Mairt wrote: »
    People talk about disporportional force being used against Hamas, of course its disporportional thats how battles are suppose to be fought.

    Eh in an all out war sure, but using such force in such a politically disputed zone inhabitanted by lots of civilians is highly questionable.


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    #763
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    turgon wrote: »

    Eh in an all out war sure, but using such force in such a politically disputed zone inhabitanted by lots of civilians is highly questionable.


    Tactically its not.

    Hamas rocket crew's are taking refuge in civilian population centre's, realistically they can't fight the IDF with conventional means. But targetting these launch sites, the Hamas infastructure and its leaders with precision aerial strikes is the safest option for Israel at the moment.

    I certainly hope that they don't send in ground forces, but with continued rocket attacks against Israeli towns Israel might be left with no other option.


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    #764
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Mairt wrote: »
    Tactically its not.

    Tactically the best solution might be to nuke the whole strip, however this would not be desirable. There are more factors to be considered that simply the military outcome, which is what you are only considering. Israel must also think about its moral reputation.


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    #765
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    patser grey wrote: »
    Three children have been killed in an Israeli airstrike as they played in a street in southern Gaza.

    Now imagine it was the other way round, imagine it was three Israeli children that were killed by a Hamas attack, the pro Israeli mouths on here and elsewhere would be calling for and justifying an Israeli no holds barred onslaught,by all means possible, but its not, and because it was the IDF that did this, it becomes "collateral damage", they de-humanise,sanitize try to disinfect, their evil crimes with terminology bullsheet.

    Mairt..I read a post by you earlier about your concerns for your childrens safety lastnight when you had intruders, and another post by yourself defending and applauding Israeli actions, how your biased towards Israel, they can do no wrong in your eyes.

    Now imagine in this crazy world, that these two intruders you had lastnight happened to be homeless, imagine some crackpot "power that be" decided that because society has'nt treated these two that well in the past, that they were entitled to a home of their own, one of them points at your house and says "my granny used to live there", the power that be decides as their entitled to a house, and he claims his granny once lived there, they can have your house.

    You come home to find your wife and children outside the gate, cold, hungry and wet, crying in despair, you look in your window, the two boys have their feet up, munching away, flicking through the box, adjusting the thermostat, making it nice and cosy, you walk into your garden, one of them gets up and shouts out the window "fukkoff your not allowed in here!", what would you do?, how would you feel?, would you feel any anger, imagine you were as brazen as to shout back at him,

    now imagine the powers that be decide your a threat to them and give them guns to defend their power that be given rights, in your righteous anger you raise a fist, and throw a stone through your window at the two intruders living in your home, they come to the door, shoot and kill your wife and children, would you be angry?


    Now imagine turning to your neighbours for support,some have some sympathy for you, but most say you were wrong, you shouldnt have started trouble and on top of that the powers that be put your name on the trouble maker list, which means your extended family were barred from buying food, visiting a doctor, hospital or dentist, were banned from working, earning a living, how would you feel if this was your reality, would you be angry?.

    Would you do as you were told and go up the road and live in a shed or tent, what would you do?.

    Then how would you feel when you heard people say that you got what you deserved?

    This is a fictional story based on a true event, but it didnt happen to a family, it happened to a people, the Palestinian people.

    That's a great analogy - very well done. You'll excuse me reformatting it into paragraphs it just makes it a bit easier to read rather than a wall of text.

    You keep working on that you could end up with a short story or a poem that people would forward to their mates! thanks for it


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    #766
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    dublincelt wrote: »
    Oh get real would ya!! You are honestly deluded if you think that Israel does not target kids. Kids tend to get killed when you fire AGM-144 Hellfire missiles into crowded buildings. How many kids have been killed in the last seven days? Too ****ing many! Israel are cowards and murdering scum. Shame on you for supporting the Nazi's!

    A typical hamas scenario where they use buildings to manufacture weapons in the middle of civillian areas as could be seen by the repated secondary explosions from targeted buildings.


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    #767
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    dublincelt wrote: »
    A 1 ton bomb used to kill Nizar Ryyan also killed his family including his 10 children. That is targeting children. The IOF would have known by bombing his house, there would have been kids there. Blown to bits by an American made bomb.

    One ton where are you getting this crap from
    seriously try reasearch before making things up


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    #768
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    dublincelt wrote: »
    Great, blame hamas for ISRAEL killing 460+ people. What a logic you have.

    I note you fail to mention how many were terrorists.


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    #769
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    edanto wrote: »
    That's a great analogy - very well done. You'll excuse me reformatting it into paragraphs it just makes it a bit easier to read rather than a wall of text.

    You keep working on that you could end up with a short story or a poem that people would forward to their mates! thanks for it

    HA HA
    I was going for the hans cristian anderson approach but I gave up due to the ridiculous nature of the post.


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    #770
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    Thanks Edanto, I actually wrote a better, from the heart version but when i went to post it i had to log in again and lost it, but tried to replicate it as best i could.
    I'm ashamed Irish people are supporting this butchery, nevermind a fellow finglas man, but some people have their heads up their holes, they believe the spin, then come and defend the slaughter of children???, it boils my blood:mad:, fukkin cowards.


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    #771
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    Nodin wrote: »
    O thats that sorted then.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/29/africa/ME-GEN-Israel-Palestinians.php
    yes it is theres lots of sources saying the same


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    #772
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    patser grey wrote: »
    Thanks Edanto, I actually wrote a better, from the heart version but when i went to post it i had to log in again and lost it, but tried to replicate it as best i could.
    I'm ashamed Irish people are supporting this butchery, nevermind a fellow finglas man, but some people have their heads up their holes, they believe the spin, then come and defend the slaughter of children???, it boils my blood:mad:, fukkin cowards.

    youre wrong the cowards are Hamas who hide behind civilians and indiscriminantly fire rockets into playgrounds and other areas.


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    #773
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    HA HA
    I was going for the hans cristian anderson approach but I gave up due to the ridiculous nature of the post.

    Irish rail your a coward and a bigot, and "my story" is actually the way Israel came about, just change Mairt and family for Palestinian people, the rest is the same but on a much bigger scale.

    Why didnt the british give the jews a piece of england for their homeland?, they gave land or proposed land that didnt belong to them in the first place, so thats defined as robbery, its quite simple really, but numbskulls here cant seem to get reality into their heads and come back with lies and propeganda to try further their deluded beliefs.


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    #774
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    patser grey wrote: »
    Irish rail your a coward and a bigot, and "my story" is actually the way Israel came about, just change Mairt and family for Palestinian people, the rest is the same but on a much bigger scale.

    Why didnt the british give the jews a piece of england for their homeland?, they gave land or proposed land that didnt belong to them in the first place, so thats defined as robbery, its quite simple really, but numbskulls here cant seem to get reality into their heads and come back with lies and propeganda to try further their deluded beliefs.

    who owned the land before the british occupation ?
    was it the turks the ottomans the romans,


    and your story is far from how Israel came about may I suggest some history lessons
    http://www.asianandmiddleeast.northwestern.edu/courses/yearly.html
    the only people coming out with propoganda are Hamas

    and name calling is usually the way of the bigot


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    #775
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    patser grey wrote: »
    Irish rail your a coward and a bigot, and "my story" is actually the way Israel came about, just change Mairt and family for Palestinian people, the rest is the same but on a much bigger scale.


    Hey why bring my name into it?.

    And by calling RR a ''Coward'' I'm assuming that you can shame us with tails of your glorious deeds?.


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    #776
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    patser grey wrote: »
    Irish rail your a coward and a bigot,

    You're new here - but you should know that it's out of order to call people names, no matter what you think of them. Disagree with anything they say, but don't insult them.

    Might be an idea to take it back. There's plenty in his posts to disagree with.


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    #777
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    IRISH RAIL wrote: »
    who owned the land before the british occupation ?
    was it the turks the ottomans the romans,


    and your story is far from how Israel came about may I suggest some history lessons
    http://www.asianandmiddleeast.northwestern.edu/courses/yearly.html
    the only people coming out with propoganda are Hamas

    and name calling is usually the way of the bigot


    You tell me who owned it, it wasnt the british,the khazars(jews) the leauge of notions, or the un. I'd say the people that owned it were the people that had lived there for generations.

    A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
    Your a bigot


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    #778
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    patser grey wrote: »
    You tell me who owned it, it wasnt the british,the khazars(jews) the leauge of notions, or the un. I'd say the people that owned it were the people that had lived there for generations.

    A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
    Your a bigot

    The jews lived there for generations


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    #779
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    edanto wrote: »
    You're new here - but you should know that it's out of order to call people names, no matter what you think of them. Disagree with anything they say, but don't insult them.

    Might be an idea to take it back. There's plenty in his posts to disagree with.

    as Im sure yourself and everyone else is aware thats what some people fall back to when there arguments have exausted themselves.


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    #780
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    patser grey wrote: »
    You tell me who owned it, it wasnt the british,the khazars(jews) the leauge of notions, or the un. I'd say the people that owned it were the people that had lived there for generations.

    A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
    Your a bigot


    Just a little advice from someone who's been debating this issue for a long time.

    Usually the pro-Palestinian side lose the whatever argument they might have because of people like you who resort to name calling & ranting, and who'd rather play silly beggars and 'one man up-ship' than debate the valid points put out by the opposing side of the debate.

    People switch off to people who post in your style very quickly. No doubt your rant makes you feel like you've made a stand for the man on the street, but your doing no one any favours.


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    #781
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    Mairt wrote: »
    Hey why bring my name into it?.

    And by calling RR a ''Coward'' I'm assuming that you can shame us with tails of your glorious deeds?.

    Sorry I've no glorious stories to tell you and your pals to pat me on the back for, I dont agree with slaughtering innocent people, displacing people or any of the other attrocities you and co are applauding, you ought to be ashamed and think what would you do in their place cause I know what I'd do.

    Edanto I take your point of name calling but I'm just being honest and expressing my true feelings, if I'm banned I'm banned.


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