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1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

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    #812
    mackerel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭mackerel


    Luckfrank it looks like there are other abuses going on at that website you posted. Hard to watch the video stream when you see women in pain and being sexually abused on the upper and side boards.

    Weakens you're argument and reveals a lot about you.


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    #813
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Jumping the gun there a bit. It sounds like he has made up his own mind, not listen to someone on a forum.

    Yes of course he made up his own mind, he saw the truth and does'nt seem to like it, hopefully there are more like him, who look beyond the illusion into the hard hitting reality of this crime against humanity, its that simple.........................


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    #814
    luckyfrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭luckyfrank


    edanto wrote: »
    Yeow!! Possibly the first recorded case of someone's opinion having been changed by this and other discussions! Excuse me gloating - I know this is a very serious business, but for those of us that are posting regularly on this issue it can often seem like no-one's mind is ever changed by our campaigning. Thanks for telling us and good luck with whatever you decide to do about it.


    Ah its not hard to be sympathetic with the israeli's with there history but whats going on in gaza is ridiclious killing hundreds innocent civilians just to get a few legimate targets mass state murder
    Before anyone goes ranting im a supporter of terrorism then let me say that muslim terrorists in my opinion are scum and i hate them with a vengence they need to be tackled head on but killing hundreds upon hundreds of people just like you and me for for the chance to hit a target is wrong and i feel anger very strong anger against israel of doing this.


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    #815
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    This is becomming less and less of a discussion, so:

    What do people think Israel should be doing to stop the Hamas rocket attacks?


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    #816
    luckyfrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭luckyfrank


    mackerel wrote: »
    Luckfrank it looks like there are other abuses going on at that website you posted. Hard to watch the video stream when you see women in pain and being sexually abused on the upper and side boards.

    Weakens you're argument and reveals a lot about you.


    Not really mate jumping to conclusions arent you


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    #817
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    mackerel wrote: »
    Luckfrank it looks like there are other abuses going on at that website you posted. Hard to watch the video stream when you see women in pain and being sexually abused on the upper and side boards.

    Weakens you're argument and reveals a lot about you.


    Well try take your eyes away from that and look at the video, he has no control over where the video is posted or its contents, its just a view of reality for Palestinian students waiting for the bus, getting massacred, just everyday life really.


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    #818
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Jumping the gun there a bit. It sounds like he has made up his own mind, not listen to someone on a forum.

    Course I'm aware that he made a multifactorial evidence based decision with an intersecting nexus of causality and probably didn't just read one single post here and go 'oh yeah'. I'm just saying that he's the first person to post that their support has shifted.

    And why would you draw a barrier between making up your own mind and listening to what other people say, even if it is on a forum??

    I form opinions on things based on what I read and discuss and I find it much more reliable than just relying on whatever 'instinct' I might have in my own mind devoid of information provided by other people.


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    #819
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    edanto wrote: »
    And why would you draw a barrier between making up your own mind and listening to what other people say, even if it is on a forum??
    Everyone seems to be making up things today. I didn't say that and I get a huge amount of my information from discussions like this.

    But his post never mentioned forums and sounded to me like it was something he didn't support since Israel started retaliating.


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    #820
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    This is becomming less and less of a discussion, so:

    What do people think Israel should be doing to stop the Hamas rocket attacks?

    The first thing Israel should do to stop these attacks is see the Palestinian people as human beings with feelings and emotions, and try to understand there is a limit to what people will accept as acceptable, that people cant be trampled on, abused, discriminated against, that if you hit a person some will want to hit back, basically just to give equal human rights as what they'd give their own family's.


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    #821
    dublincelt
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭dublincelt


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    This is becomming less and less of a discussion, so:

    What do people think Israel should be doing to stop the Hamas rocket attacks?


    Dialogue maybe??? Surely there is a better way than the violence we are witnessing. What is the endgame here? That is the bigger question, The course of action Israel are on now can only lead to more bloodshed, More recruits for suicide bombings. The rage of the muslim world will in turn lead to attacks in the Western World. For we are complicit in this slaughter. I feel sick today, truly sick.


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    #822
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    This is becomming less and less of a discussion, so:

    What do people think Israel should be doing to stop the Hamas rocket attacks?

    The key point for me is that the government, Hamas supports the rocket attacks. If they didn't or even if they said they didn't then they'd have a leg to stand on but when the attacks are supported by the elected government, that leaves israel with a real problem.

    The history is so complicated that I find it hard to believe people bring it into this argument, because you can keep going back to previous era's in history and say "well those guys were on this land first" etc.

    I don't support either side because I admit that I don't know everything about the situation.

    Also, wtf are people comparing numbers like 1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians. It's not a valid point at all. If it were the case that hamas had a better military and were killing more israelis in the conflict ye'd have to say 1 Palestinian = 155 Israelis. All I'm sayin is it is beside the point.


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    #823
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    patser grey wrote: »
    The first thing Israel should do to stop these attacks

    This was the scenario before the attacks and it didnt work. Next suggestion?
    dublincelt wrote: »
    The work of Nazi's.

    As in that group of people who killed 6 million jews. Dont you think your blowing it a tiny tiny tiny bit out of proportion? Anyway, Godwins Law and all that.


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    #824
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    dublincelt wrote: »
    Dialogue maybe??? Surely there is a better way than the violence we are witnessing.

    Would you not agree that for dialogue to happen, one side's government can't support rocket attacks on the other side?


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    #825
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    IRISHRAIL wrote:
    A typical hamas scenario where they use buildings to manufacture weapons in the middle of civillian areas as could be seen by the repated secondary explosions from targeted buildings

    And of course because the IDF says so, tis true.
    IRISHRAIL wrote:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...lestinians.php
    yes it is theres lots of sources saying the same
    __________________

    It says that the IDF says. I realise from some of your posts your a bit high on all this at the moment, but its no excuse for not reading what articles you yourself post.
    IRISHRAIL wrote:
    youre wrong the cowards are Hamas who hide behind civilians and indiscriminantly fire rockets into playgrounds and other areas.

    And of course shooting down school children with sniper fire and advancing behind villagers dragged out of their houses is infintely more acceptable.

    Who is it thats colonising the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem again....?
    PatserGrey wrote:
    The first thing Israel should do to stop these attacks is see the Palestinian people as human beings with feelings and emotions, and try to understand there is a limit to what people will accept as acceptable, that people cant be trampled on, abused, discriminated against, that if you hit a person some will want to hit back, basically just to give equal human rights as what they'd give their own family's.

    Unforunately thats not going to happen. The Geneva convention isn't applied either in Gaza, the West Bank or the rest of the OT, let alone Israeli civil law for the Palestinians. Even Palestinians in Arab East Jerusalem (which is annexed in Israeli law) are treated seperately. They seem to have forgotten what its like to be on the receiving end. Much like our own people.


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    #826
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    Also, wtf are people comparing numbers like 1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians. It's not a valid point at all. If it were the case that hamas had a better military and were killing more israelis in the conflict ye'd have to say 1 Palestinian = 155 Israelis. All I'm sayin is it is beside the point.

    But thats like excusing the Gardai of killing 100 youths who want to throw eggs at them, just because if the youths had the means they would kill them. The proportionality of the revenge attacks is most definitely relevant.


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    #827
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    And the complete naivety the people in here condemning everything Israel do is coming out.

    There has been dailouge, it led no where. There has been cease fires, Hamas kept firing rockets.


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    #828
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    turgon wrote: »
    This was the scenario before the attacks and it didnt work. Next suggestion?



    As in that group of people who killed 6 million jews. Dont you think your blowing it a tiny tiny tiny bit out of proportion? Anyway, Godwins Law and all that.


    What are you talking about?, are you deluded, go back, read, and re ask whatever your question is because its making no sense, whats your point or direction?


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    #829
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    A suggestion...

    Invite in the UN to keep the peace. Give the Palestinians their dignity by stopping the blockade of basic services. Send an EU delegation to Palestine to convince Hamas (and others) to change course and opt for non-violent resolution.

    Get Israel to allow the creation of an independent Palestinian state and nurture the democracy there. Force Israel to adopt the existing UN resolutions and get them to stop the collective punishment of the Palestinians (including all of the economic sanctions that Israel has against Palestine, people there feel them more sharply than the bombs).


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    #830
    luckyfrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭luckyfrank


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    This is becomming less and less of a discussion, so:

    What do people think Israel should be doing to stop the Hamas rocket attacks?

    First thing to do is acknowledge each others wrongs

    Second thing to do is offer a carrot to the palistainians in a similar fashion to what the british did with the ira

    The big jump so to speak has to be made by the israelis they have the control and the power but if the truly seek peace they will have to give up some of that control and power

    Its a risk but for everyone its a risk worth taking


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    #831
    Gingervitis
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭Gingervitis


    Well, it's official. Ground forces have just entered Northern Gaza.
    Personally, I'd prefer to see infantry to airstrikes.

    and I don't mean that flippantly, I just hope infantry will use more discretion, avoiding civilian casualties


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    #832
    luckyfrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭luckyfrank


    Gingervitis wrote: »
    Well, it's official. Ground forces have just entered Northern Gaza.
    Personally, I'd prefer to see infantry to airstrikes.

    and I don't mean that flippantly, I just hope infantry will use more discretion, avoiding civilian casualties


    So its official its another interfada ?


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    #833
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gingervitis wrote: »
    Well, it's official. Ground forces have just entered Northern Gaza.
    Personally, I'd prefer to see infantry to airstrikes.

    and I don't mean that flippantly, I just hope infantry will use more discretion, avoiding civilian casualties

    In that area, infantry and tanks have always led to far more casualties. Frequently thats been the point.


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    #834
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    patser grey wrote: »
    What are you talking about?, are you deluded, go back, read, and re ask whatever your question is because its making no sense, whats your point or direction?

    I was talking about the way you suggested Israel stop the attack, and where I correctly stated that this was returning to square one. Because your suggestion had thus been proved no suggestion at all, I then prompted you for another solution.

    The UN solution would be vetoed by the US, I believe?


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    #835
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    *In voice like Theoden from the Lord of the Rings*

    "So it begins"

    Twas inevitable I suppose.


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    #836
    Gingervitis
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭Gingervitis


    Nodin wrote: »
    In that area, infantry and tanks have always led to far more casualties. Frequently thats been the point.

    Hopefully not civilian casualties though. ground forces may draw out and engage the militants. Might be talking out of my ass here, but unless Hamas are using human shields, they're far more likely than civilians to take fire. Plus if civilians attack the Israelis, the troops can respond appropriately to the force. d'ya see where I'm coming from?


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    #837
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,205 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Ground forces normally use a combination of airstrikes and artilllery to clear their path. With the density of the area, there will be more slaughter of civilians


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    #838
    patser grey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭patser grey


    turgon wrote: »
    *In voice like Theoden from the Lord of the Rings*

    "So it begins"

    Twas inevitable I suppose.

    Listen this is reality, not some fantasy fetish to get off on.
    I was answering a question about how to stop Hamas rockets, i suggested they treat them as human beings, where and when were they treated as such?,


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    #839
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    patser grey wrote: »
    Listen this is reality, not some fantasy fetish to get off on.

    You betya sir.
    patser grey wrote: »
    I was answering a question about how to stop Hamas rockets, i suggested they treat them as human beings, where and when were they treated as such?,

    Pretty vague solution, isnt it?


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    #840
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    well i never saw anybody protesting (esp in this country) when the palestinians blew up a bus full of israeli school children a few years back:rolleyes:

    it seems to me everyone is demanding that the israeli army play by the rules but Hamas and the PLO can do what they like:cool:


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    #841
    IRISH RAIL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭IRISH RAIL


    The Saint wrote: »
    Like calling people terrorist supporters, anti-semites and other ad homenem bullsh1t eh?

    Which poster did I call any of the above ?


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