1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

A Dub in Glasgo

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

ha ha ha ha ha ha
would you ever learn about the weapons you seem to think are clusterbombs

thats nothing of the sort

hahahaha
thanks for the laugh though

You are right of course (how did we ever doubt you).

The Israelis are actually using the aliens from War of the Worlds

dublincelt

sink wrote: »

A minute ago you thought they were cluster bomb and a military expert said he didn't know what they were but they looked like wp. You seem to have no issues switching your position based upon little evidence so long as it is reason to condemn Israel. The truth is we don't know what they are and if the turn out to be less lethal weapons I'm wondering will you change your position as quick.

Oh FFS it is you that said they maybe some type of White Phopserous. I still believe they are Cluster Munitions. And they are banned by Ireland and over 108 other countries to get back to my original point.

sink

dublincelt wrote: »

Oh FFS it is you that said they maybe some type of White Phopserous. I still believe they are Cluster Munitions. And they are banned by Ireland and over 108 other countries to get back to my original point.

Believing doesn't make it so!

IRISH RAIL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvBU010seTI&feature=related

thats the closest I can find thats not cgi
the principle is still the same except the IAI version provides a blanket that distorts the anti aircraft missile.

munchester29

dublincelt wrote: »

Its just a big firework for new years celebrations. Courtesy of peace loving self defending Israel.

Yeah man, good one!!!

These are not cluster bombs. If anything these look like those thingies Helicopters throw against anti aircraft missiles or something.

IRISH RAIL

munchester29 wrote: »

These are not cluster bombs. If anything these look like those thingies Helicopters throw against anti aircraft missiles or something.

we have a winner

except there coming from jets and designed to detonate at a specified altitude to confuse aa misiles

sink

munchester29 wrote: »

If anything these look like those thingies Helicopters throw against anti aircraft missiles or something.

I would've thought that too but the problem is the footage sky news showed there were no aircraft anywhere near them they looked more like exploding artillery shells.

Ciaran500

sink wrote: »

I would've thought that too but the problem is the footage sky news showed there were no aircraft anywhere near them they looked more like exploding artillery shells.

Well they're not cluster bombs, they wouldn't be burning. They're not anti personal WP shells, they would generate alot more smoke and AFIAK they normally detonate on the ground.

Some form of flare to confuse AA is the most sensible idea I can see here.

watty

Where were all the protests at Hamas attacks before the current reaction?

An organisation that has never ever agreed to accept any existance of an Israeli state. Israel since BEFORE 1948 has always accepted the principle of a Palestinian state.

P.S. I don't agree with the current Israeli action as I think it will solve nothing and harden extremists.

Nick_oliveri

Edit: HOW VERY HUMANE

IRISH RAIL

sink wrote: »

I would've thought that too but the problem is the footage sky news showed there were no aircraft anywhere near them they looked more like exploding artillery shells.

there dropped then detonate unlike the flare system that helicopters use these come in different types.
This is unlike ITALD that flies a preprogrammed route over the target zone.
it effectivly creates a blanket of countermeasures over the flight zone and confuses the aa missile so it cant lock on.

IRISH RAIL

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Edit: HOW VERY HUMANE

yes because anti aircraft countermeasures have killed how many?

sink

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Edit: HOW VERY HUMANE

Nothing in war is humane, get realistic!

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Well they're not cluster bombs, they wouldn't be burning. They're not anti personal WP shells, they would generate alot more smoke and AFIAK they normally detonate on the ground.

Some form of flare to confuse AA is the most sensible idea I can see here.

The directional angle on them and the fact they're still burning white hot when they strike the ground tells me they are some form of incendiary artillery shell which air burst above their target.

arybvtcw0eolkf

dublincelt wrote: »

You are not fit to be moderator on a forum like this!

I'm not a Moderator in this forum, I moderate the Military forum.

There's a similiar thread there too which your more than welcome to join. In the interest of fairness I've excused myself from it as I'm both Pro-Israel and a Moderator.

Like I said your more than welcome to look in, I won't be debating with you there but I would expect that you follow the forums guidlines and use some common sense in your debate.

dublincelt

Eyewitnesses reported that new shells explode before landing on the targets making more small bombs. The shells are expected to be cluster bombs. More Israeli new weapons are used today. Palestinians in Khan Yonis massively called the radio stations and health centers to report on a bad smell goes out from the rockets in Khan Yonis City. People are afraid this kind of weapon is shells enriched with Uranium and nuclear elements....Thousands of Gaza population hurried into the local markets in search of life basics but in vain. No more fuel, benzene, gasoline, flour, wheat, sugar, rice, bread, candlelight and thousands of commodities are not available in Gaza. Add to that, continued power cuts up to 20 hours during the cold weather of winter.

From an eyewitness account. But sure why would anyone believe Palestinian..

Nick_oliveri

Looks like cluster**** to me, you can see the explosions in the image I posted from BBC front page.

Nothing in war is humane, get realistic!

Yeah but thats sick, laying waste to an entire area. Oh no, no civilians there... Ah sure theyr'e just Palestinians..

Poccington

It seems to be the M825 Projectile that's launched from their 155's.

It's basically an airburst munition that causes a smokescreen using WP. The projectile detonates in the air, sending fragments of WP into the ground and once the fragments embed into the ground, each fragment starts to release smoke.

sink

I started a thread over on the military forum on this topic.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055453402

Nick_oliveri

WP= White Phosphorus?

sink

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

WP= White Phosphorus?

Yes.

Nick_oliveri

White Phosphorus, for when you just gotta target them terrorists effectively and without "Collatteral Damage".
Edit: are they not banned? I remember the ****storm that ensued when Merica dropped it in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Is it ok because its Israel?

arybvtcw0eolkf

dublincelt wrote: »

I still believe they are Cluster Munitions.

Pal (hehe) you wouldn't know a 'cluster bomb' from a 'cluster fuck'.


Your wild rants and accusations do nothing for the guys genuinely trying to debate this with each other.

turgon

Ireland will be sending half a million euro worth of aid to Gaza. Fair dues to Martin and Cowen, its not a load but every little helps, and its good their putting their money where their mouth is.

Poccington

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

White Phosphorus, for when you just gotta target them terrorists effectively and without "Collatteral Damage".
Edit: are they not banned? I remember the ****storm that ensued when Merica dropped it in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Is it ok because its Israel?

The way in which WP can be deployed is a bit complicated and becomes especially complicated in situations such as the one in Gaza now. In short though, it's not illegal to use it for smoke munitions, which is what the Israeli's seem to be doing.

sink

Here I found a good video that looks identical to what I saw on the news. White Phosphorus Artillery Shells.

Several rounds of M825A1 burst over the city during the battle...

Operation Phantom Fury, Second Battle of Fallujah in November 2004.

Nick_oliveri

Poccington wrote: »

smoke munitions, which is what the Israeli's seem to be doing.

Smoke munitions? Could you explain that to me please? Does it not still horribly burn the **** out of anyone in the area until theres no oxygen or substance left?

Poccington

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Smoke munitions? Could you explain that to me please? Does it not still horribly burn the **** out of anyone in the area until theres no oxygen or substance left?

Here is basically the definition of what the M85 does.

The M825 White Phosphorus (Felt-Wedge) is a 155mm base ejection projectile designed to produce a smoke screen on the ground for a duration of 5 to 15 minutes. It consists of two major components, the projectile carrier, and the payload. The projectile carrier delivers the payload to the target. The payload consists of 116 WP-saturated felt wedges.After ejection, the WP felt wedges fall to ground in a elliptical pattern. Each wedge will then becomes a source of smoke. The projectile is ballistically similar to the M483A1 DPICM family of projectiles.

So although it is still WP, it is not used to directly engage targets so in theory shouldn't be a direct danger to civilians.

Nick_oliveri

I seen that in the white paper sink posted in the military thread, what it doesn't explain though, is the effect on a human. Not that i expected it to.
This does:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_(weapon)#Effects_on_humans

There are reports of individuals with a history of oral ingestion who have passed phosphorus-laden stool ("smoking stool syndrome"

FFS

turgon

So is this politics thread just turned into some testostrone powered debate on what the bomb in the video is called??

Poccington

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

I seen that in the white paper sink posted in the military thread, what it doesn't explain though, is the effect on a human. Not that i expected it to.
This does:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_(weapon)#Effects_on_humans

FFS

That's because it's not supposed to be used in civilian areas where there's no military forces, which is why it shouldn't be considered any danger to civilians.

However, in conflicts like this you have military forces working out of civilian populated areas, which is where the use of WP starts to get complicated.