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1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians
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munchester29 wrote: »Sounds a bit paranoid if you ask me. Israeli PR is crappy, and I doubt they will invest so much time and effort trying to convince the Irish people of all people...
Irish people have no access to non-Irish media? What on earth goes through your mind?
Did you follow my suggestion and google it?
Here is the link.
"We would like to work with him and work with his government to help end the Israeli occupation. We're sending a message to the British government - we're offering a hudna [ceasefire - MY ED, hudna is more solid than a ceasefire, it's a "permanent cessation" equivalent] for 10 years in return for the end of occupation." Hamas wants European governments to accept its ceasefire plan in lieu of the Islamist group formally recognising Israel.
"We hope the Europeans will become aware of the concept of hudna, and that it can become a substitute for recognition of Israel," said Mr Yousef.
"Debate about a political nation's right to exist seems infantile. Israel is a state now, it is part of the UN, it is de facto there, and we deal with it every day."
Mr Yousef said that there was no support in Gaza and the West Bank for recognition of Israel, and he could not propose such a change at present.
"If I did, I would end up like Michael Collins," he said, referring to the Irish republican leader assassinated in 1922 for accepting an Irish two-state solution.
"We need to change people's minds on how they look at the conflict, and it will take time. The climate will change if we have a period of peace.""
There, from the horses mouth. Sounds an awful lot like the languate used by IRA/SinnFéin at the early stages of the peace process. Of course, this does not fit in with the propaganda image people like to portray, something akin to the zombies from 28 Weeks Later. Bloodthirsty.
This is the last time I'll visit this.0 -
I really really can't believe you're still peddling this stuff. Jews were the majority for a short period of time 2,000 years ago. That does not give all Jews (not from the region and no connection to the region) more of a right to the land than the indigenous population.munchester29 wrote: »Yet in your mind, only the Palestinians are entitled to the land, so what do you base your opinion on if not on historical roots?
As for who's entitled to what, I'm going to go with the UN Security Council, General Assembly and the International Court of Justice and say Israel is entitled to the June 1967 borders.
That's rich coming from you since you have repeatedly stated domonstrably false statements and have been unable to back them up.munchester29 wrote: »I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:
You can say something a gazillion times, still doesn’t make it true.
I can honestly say that I try to answer any argument raised against what I say, and if you go over my posts I think it is clear enough.
As far as knowledge in regards to the conflict - I have been in Israel many times. I have also been to Gaza, Lebanon, the west bank, etc more time than I’d care to remember.
I’ve worked and talked with Israelis, Lebanese, Syrians and Palestinians.
I’ve been reading books, articles, assays and even comics on the conflict. I’ve been doing it for the past 20 years or so.
If you can say the same, then maybe our knowledge is on the same level…
If not, then I suggest you do a bit of reading yourself, but try to expand beyond the usual Palestinian propaganda sites…0 -
munchester29 wrote: »As far as I know they haven’t, please provide a link to an article or something
They have, the same story about the "hudna" has been linked about 5 or 6 times in this thread alone looking back. You repeatedly, 4,5,6 timers now and claim not to know about, you choose to ignore it, despite the fact a 30 second search on google would throw up results. This to my mind is either trolling or lazyness beyond description.I’ve been reading books, articles, assays and even comics on the conflict. I’ve been doing it for the past 20 years or so.
If you can say the same, then maybe our knowledge is on the same level…
I seriously doubt that given Lebanese and Israelis I know are very well aware of all the facts surrounding the conflict (I must admit to not knowing any Palestinians given that most of them are effectively imprisoned in Gaza and the West Bank), even if it's true you haven't learned anything from it. You don't know diddily. You won't bother your arse even following what's being said in response to your posts or following suggestions to take 30 seconds looking on google. It's pointless. I've covered every possible argument you have because they come from a very limited set of arguments and are repeated ad nauseum so I'll end it there with you. Enjoy watching your football team...I mean Israel, knock the ****e out of an almost totally defenceless 3rd world population.0 -
youcrazyjesus! wrote: »Irish people have no access to non-Irish media? What on earth goes through your mind?
Did you follow my suggestion and google it?
Here is the link.
This is the last time I'll visit this.
Wow, I’m soooo impressed… The Hamas offered a 10 year ceasefire 3 years ago…
They probably meant for a ceasefire similar to the last one – Israel is not allowed to do anything, while Hamas can keep on attacking and massing arms.
Besides, you think the Israelis are not aware of article 13 in the Hamas charter, which shows exactly what Hamas think of such agreements?
“Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)”0 -
I really really can't believe you're still peddling this stuff. Jews were the majority for a short period of time 2,000 years ago. That does not give all Jews (not from the region and no connection to the region) more of a right to the land than the indigenous population.
But the Palestinians, according to you, have a more justifiable right to the land for some reason?
Too bad Hamas doesn’t go by the UN decision. Hell, if the Palestinians went by UN decisions they would have had most of Israel in 1948.As for who's entitled to what, I'm going to go with the UN Security Council, General Assembly and the International Court of Justice and say Israel is entitled to the June 1967 borders.
I backed every statement I’ve made with facts, usually with links to various articles also.That's rich coming from you since you have repeatedly stated domonstrably false statements and have been unable to back them up.
I stand by my statements and you getting pissed at me will not change that. If you feel like it – feel free to refute what I’ve said, although I don’t think you can if you have to resort to personal attacks.0 -
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Just after listening to a journalist on Sky called Zaki Chehab who has written a book on Hamas, state that Hamas jailed 30 or more Palestinians for breaching a ceasefire with the Israelis over the last seven months and the Israelis repaid by assassinating over 20 Palestinians,
By the way is anyone watching the coverage by Al-Jazeera News, Shocking what the brave star of David scoundrels are being let get away with.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Wow, I’m soooo impressed… The Hamas offered a 10 year ceasefire 3 years ago…
You should be. You ignored it for long enough..and now, the familiar dismissal.They probably meant for a ceasefire similar to the last one – Israel is not allowed to do anything, while Hamas can keep on attacking and massing arms.
Ok so "probably". Why not test them on it? Why not engage in the process? Why not do what Ehud Olmert says Israel should do? Given that it matches almost completely what Hamas want too.
Yes. I'm sure they are aware but facts remain facts. I'm sure Hamas could come up with plenty of reasons not to engage, I'm sure they could copy and paste pages and pages of statements from Israeli right-wingers who state they want all of the mandate's land, who want to expel Palestinians permanently from the mandate, who call Palestinian children terrorists, but they don't, because if they did that and Israel did that (as Israel is doing TODAY) they'd fight each other until doomsday. I'm sure the very existence of Israel on their former homes and farms is quite offensive to Palestinians too, is this a reason not to negotiate?
Both sides can get on their high horse and refuse to engage, it doesn't get anybody anywhere. Right now, Israel refuses to engage in a meaningful negotiation process, refuses to recognise democratic will of Palestinians. refuses to allow a Palestinian state. The status quo won't remain there forever mind, they would do well to make peace from a position of strength.
Do you think Hamas are lying or trying to trick the Israelis into a ceasefire? What a dastardly plan, trick the Israelis into a peaceful solution! But we'll strike back with our charter later! We'll make it so long-winded and hubristic it will make a very heavy object when printed! We'll launch our manifesto into Israel! Allahu Akbar!
Btw, the poinst you've made were responded to by Hamas in the link. They answered, mentioning Michael Collins. But please continue ignoring facts.0 -
youcrazyjesus! wrote: »They have, the same story about the "hudna" has been linked about 5 or 6 times in this thread alone looking back. You repeatedly, 4,5,6 timers now and claim not to know about, you choose to ignore it, despite the fact a 30 second search on google would throw up results. This to my mind is either trolling or lazyness beyond description.
Again with the Hudna from a few years back?
OK, I’ll make it a bit clearer: I haven’t seen a link or an article stating the Hamas have asked for a truce in the past week. If you have one, please submit it, and if you are correct I’ll actually agree with you on this point, and I will also write it in this forum.youcrazyjesus! wrote: »I seriously doubt that given Lebanese and Israelis I know are very well aware of all the facts surrounding the conflict (I must admit to not knowing any Palestinians given that most of them are effectively imprisoned in Gaza and the West Bank), even if it's true you haven't learned anything from it. You don't know diddily. You won't bother your arse even following what's being said in response to your posts or following suggestions to take 30 seconds looking on google. It's pointless. I've covered every possible argument you have because they come from a very limited set of arguments and are repeated ad nauseum so I'll end it there with you. Enjoy watching your football team...I mean Israel, knock the ****e out of an almost totally defenceless 3rd world population.
Well, you didn’t really cover every possible argument with me. You have made your feelings clear, you’ve made your beliefs clear, you have repeated a lot of Palestinian propaganda, rumours, stories and half truths, but you weren’t too successful in refuting what I’ve said.
In my experience, when people reduce their arguments to “You don't know diddily” and “You won't bother your arse…” or “It's pointless”, it only means one thing, so it appears then my arguing with you is truly done. Think for yourself why…0 -
Most likely he'd have been killed either immediately or within the first few hours of captivity.
The Palestinians won't care and will use the remains of the dead as a bargaining tool, and believe it just as valuable too just as they have done, and continue to do with Private Kevin Joyce.
Politically this crisis is welcomed by the majority of Middle Eastern governments who also see it as dealing a death blow to Hamas.
Mairt
You keep going on about Private Kevin Joyce, but the Israeli's and their allies have been no respecters of the Irish Army and the Blue Beret.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uns-irish-battalions-bid-farewell-to-a-long-bitter-tour-in-lebanon-687708.htmlThey killed one of Israel's Lebanese allies and lost one of their own: Pte Stephen Griffin. I went to his funeral in Galway a few days later, his blue UN beret lying atop his coffin in the breezy seaside churchyard, the rocks and hills looking oddly like the land where he had died 2,500 miles away.
In revenge for their own dead, one of Israel's militiamen, Ali Bazi, murdered two Irish soldiers - Pte Smallhorn and Pte Barrett - in an incident that might be regarded as a war crime. But Mr Bazi now lives in safety in the United States. The Americans, otherwise so keen on hunting "terrorists", have shown no interest in arresting him.
When are the Irish government going to seek "Mr." Bazi's head on a plate?
Answer, never.
Emshi, me bollicks!, indeed.0 -
Are you deliberately misreading what I say or do you have a comprehension problem? I've repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored that I believe Israel are entitled to exist within their June 1967 borders and that the Palestinians are entitled to the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. I take this view as this is what the UN Security Council, UN General Assembly and International Court of Justice state.munchester29 wrote: »But the Palestinians, according to you, have a more justifiable right to the land for some reason?
Hamas can go rot for all I care. Both side should abide by international law. I've also stated why the partition resolution was rejected.munchester29 wrote: »Too bad Hamas doesn’t go by the UN decision. Hell, if the Palestinians went by UN decisions they would have had most of Israel in 1948.
I have refuted what you've said repeatedly and on many occasions you've just ignored it or made assertions without evidence. If you're talking about the last thread in AH I had written a full reply to you but by the time I had finished rebutting all your remarks (including numerous quotes from Benny Morris himself) the thread was locked.munchester29 wrote: »I backed every statement I’ve made with facts, usually with links to various articles also.
I stand by my statements and you getting pissed at me will not change that. If you feel like it – feel free to refute what I’ve said, although I don’t think you can if you have to resort to personal attacks.0 -
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When are the Irish government going to seek "Mr." Bazi's head on a plate?
Answer, never.
Emshi, me bollicks!, indeed.
I found that strange myself, that he would have such a love for the force which is responsible for the deaths of his comrades. Which is why I questioned if he was being truthful about serving.0 -
youcrazyjesus! wrote: »You should be. You ignored it for long enough..and now, the familiar dismissal.
Ok so "probably". Why not test them on it? Why not engage in the process? Why not do what Ehud Olmert says Israel should do? Given that it matches almost completely what Hamas want too.
But they have tried it – a 6 month ceasefire just ended. Didn’t end too well for Israel though…
They do need to negotiate. I just happen to think that negotiations can’t be accomplished while fighting still goes on, so in my opinion the first step in the talks should be a ceasefire – but a real one this time.youcrazyjesus! wrote: »Yes. I'm sure they are aware but facts remain facts. I'm sure Hamas could come up with plenty of reasons not to engage, I'm sure they could copy and paste pages and pages of statements from Israeli right-wingers who state they want all of the mandate's land, who want to expel Palestinians permanently from the mandate, who call Palestinian children terrorists, but they don't, because if they did that and Israel did that (as Israel is doing TODAY) they'd fight each other until doomsday. I'm sure the very existence of Israel on their former homes and farms is quite offensive to Palestinians too, is this a reason not to negotiate?
What worries me, is that right now, there is majority in Israel that want to give the territories back, they want peace, and they want a two state solution.youcrazyjesus! wrote: »Both sides can get on their high horse and refuse to engage, it doesn't get anybody anywhere. Right now, Israel refuses to engage in a meaningful negotiation process, refuses to recognise democratic will of Palestinians. refuses to allow a Palestinian state. The status quo won't remain there forever mind, they would do well to make peace from a position of strength.
The problem is – Israel has its share of extremists. As the violence continues, and when Israelis see that all the trust building steps Israel makes towards the Palestinians are reciprocated with increased violence, the Israeli extremists grow stronger. What worries me is that given enough time the Israeli extremists will grow to be strong enough to actually dictate the Israeli policy, and then the middle east will face a s*&^t storm.
(I know, I know – these steps are too little, less than what the Palestinians want, etc. – but still, they are making steps in the right direction)youcrazyjesus! wrote: »Do you think Hamas are lying or trying to trick the Israelis into a ceasefire? What a dastardly plan, trick the Israelis into a peaceful solution! But we'll strike back with our charter later! We'll make it so long-winded and hubristic it will make a very heavy object when printed! We'll launch our manifesto into Israel! Allahu Akbar!
I think Hamas will say & do anything that gives them time and peace of mind to continue with their plans of conquering all of Israel, as is said in their charter.
Hamas are followers of Muhammad, who believed in saying anything to achieve the end goal – victory over the enemy:
“Al-Taqiya, from the verb Ittaqu, means linguistically dodge the threat. Politically it means simulate whatever status you need in order to win the war against the enemy.”
You can do a bit more reading here:
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/dec97/phares.htm
I read the article, and it is weird – he claims that he is afraid to end up like Michael Collins because the Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank do not agree to recognize Israel.youcrazyjesus! wrote: »Btw, the poinst you've made were responded to by Hamas in the link. They answered, mentioning Michael Collins. But please continue ignoring facts.
The politicians are scared, the public is not willing, I don’t really see a partner for peace here to be honest.0 -
I think the Isralies have a bigger plan in mind with their invasion of Gazza,
They want to draw more Arab countries into a bigger conflict, And be viewed as victims of Muslim terrorists, they fear they may not have the freedom to carry out the genocide they have been getting away with under G W Bush when president Obama comes to power.0 -
I think the Isralies have a bigger plan in mind with their invasion of Gazza,
They want to draw more Arab countries into a bigger conflict, And be viewed as victims of Muslim terrorists, they fear they may not have the freedom to carry out the genocide they have been getting away with under G W Bush when president Obama comes to power.
Oh yes they will. Don't fall for Obama's line of crap.
He kissed AIPAC's ass in order to get elected too.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Again with the Hudna from a few years back?
OK, I’ll make it a bit clearer: I haven’t seen a link or an article stating the Hamas have asked for a truce in the past week. If you have one, please submit it, and if you are correct I’ll actually agree with you on this point, and I will also write it in this forum.
You mean, if I find a link which states that Hamas has offered a ceasefire, you'll agree that Hamas has offered a ceasefire? Wow. Thanks dude!
http://news.iafrica.com/worldnews/1402221.htm
Israeli and Palestinian media have reported that Hamas is seeking a ceasefire.
Hamas has said it would be open to a ceasefire with Israel if the Jewish state would lift its blockade on Gaza and open the crossings
The rejection came as Hamas said it would send a delegation to Egypt for ceasefire negotiations and several other countries
Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable compromises.
Why not give talks a chance when Hamas has offered negotiations ?
"First, the Zionist aggression must end without any conditions...Second the siege must be lifted and all the crossings must be opened because the siege is the source of all of Gaza's problems After that it will be possible to talk on all issues without any exception"
"No truce initiative has been sent to us. If such a proposition is made to us, we will examine it as we are favorable to any initiative that will put an end to the aggression and totally lift the blockade,"
Need any more?
When the facts don't fit your arguments, ignore them! It's a great tactic.Well, you didn’t really cover every possible argument with me. You have made your feelings clear, you’ve made your beliefs clear, you have repeated a lot of Palestinian propaganda, rumours, stories and half truths
Any fact I've given which is untrue please point me to it. Any rumours or stories or half-truths than cannot be backed up by reference to a mainstream newspaper please tell me. You're making ridiculous claims without sources and simply parroting what I say in relation to your spectalularly ill-informed and illogical replies (your stating in the same breath that it is collective punishment but is not collective punishment for example). Your side can be argued in a much more fulfilling and positive way. Sticking to your guns like a stubborn mule in the face of reports from mainstream media a few clicks is quite silly.0 -
No Arab state is going to get involved in this conflict. Most Arab governments could give two sh1ts about it really to do anything about it. Israel knows this. Also whatever Israel has been doing in the territories it is not genocide. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.I think the Isralies have a bigger plan in mind with their invasion of Gazza,
They want to draw more Arab countries into a bigger conflict, And be viewed as victims of Muslim terrorists, they fear they may not have the freedom to carry out the genocide they have been getting away with under G W Bush when president Obama comes to power.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »The politicians are scared, the public is not willing, I don’t really see a partner for peace here to be honest.
80% of Palestinians agree with Ehud Olmert and Hamas. They will accept a 2-state solution along 1967 borders (perhaps Jordan and Egypt would throw them a bone and build 'em a motorway to the Red Sea too). You're talking about recognising the legitimacy of Israel, rather than the existence of it. They will happily sign an agreement with Israel, they just won't bend over and use a formula devised by Israel in doing so.0 -
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it ain't genocide but its certainly is slaughter :mad:
Palestinians already surrounded by barbed wires, high walls, armed guards, and have little food, medical supplies and basic freedoms we take for granted
all that is left is for Israeli's to toss in a few chemical weapons and we have a 21st century concentration camp
whats happening is just freaking evil0 -
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do you have a nice sanitised Israeli term for Murder of innocent Palestinian children that we can use,
"Massacre", "genocide", "slaughter"......all those emotive words about the Israeli response to being attacked. (not to mention the fact that you felt compelled to use a capital "M" for murder)
What do you think about Hamas's actual stated desire for genocide against the Israeli population?
Israel are victims of Muslim terrorists, what sort of cracked worldview tells you they're not??0 -
Israeli kids have it coming to them horseflesh. Everyone knows that.
I truly dont understand why Israel is found to be at fault for not making peace with Hamas when Hamas stated goal is to destroy Israel, and when Hamas has inserted into its own charter than peace deals are for pussies. Think about that, theyre so against a peace deal with Israel that they inserted it into their own charter.
Israel cant be blamed for playing the team put in front of them. If the Palestinians want peace, perhaps they should elect peacemakers?0 -
Care to back that one up? I've never seen Hamas state that they intended to commit genocide against the Israeli population?horseflesh wrote: »What do you think about Hamas's actual stated desire for genocide against the Israeli population?0 -
Hes probably referring to the part of the Hamas charter where it states that the stones and trees will call out to muslims to say "Oh Muslim, There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill them"
Suffice to say, any Jewish person at the mercy of Hamas would have a very brutal existence, should they have an existence at all. Palestinian religious leaders helped the Nazis recruit Muslim SS divisions to assist in the killing of Jews afterall. Palestinians and Nazis were united in their common hatred of Jewish people. Theres been nothing since to indicate they would be any kinder today.0 -
Israeli kids have it coming to them horseflesh. Everyone knows that.
I truly dont understand why Israel is found to be at fault for not making peace with Hamas when Hamas stated goal is to destroy Israel, and when Hamas has inserted into its own charter than peace deals are for pussies. Think about that, theyre so against a peace deal with Israel that they inserted it into their own charter.
Israel cant be blamed for playing the team put in front of them. If the Palestinians want peace, perhaps they should elect peacemakers?
This is a rehash and is covered in the thread if you care to respond to it. Just a few posts before.0 -
This whole thread is a rehash tbh of the thread back in 2001. All your points were dealt with back then.0
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Hes probably referring to the part of the Hamas charter where it states that the stones and trees will call out to muslims to say "Oh Muslim, There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill them"
Suffice to say, any Jewish person at the mercy of Hamas would have a very brutal existence, should they have an existence at all. Palestinian religious leaders helped the Nazis recruit Muslim SS divisions to assist in the killing of Jews afterall. Palestinians and Nazis were united in their common hatred of Jewish people. Theres been nothing since to indicate they would be any kinder today.
The actions of a religious leader almsot 70 years ago should not be used as an excuse to continue occupation or justification for anything really. It was wrong, undoubtedly and he was closely associated with Hitler and it's true without any doubt he encouraged Muslims to join the SS in Yugoslavia but it's no more logical than associating the IRA with Nazism just because Sean Russell took a lift on a U-boat when he wanted the Brits.
Almost all Palestinians alive today weren't even born when WWII started. Give it over.
Israel itself has studied Nazi anti-insurrectionist tactics, so a complete aversion to things that happened during WWII isn't there, which I think is interesting when people reference the long dead Grand Mufti. They also are one of the strongest opponents of recognition of the Armenian genocide. First cast the beam out of thine own eye I think is the lesson here.0 -
The charter also states that:Hes probably referring to the part of the Hamas charter where it states that the stones and trees will call out to muslims to say "Oh Muslim, There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill them".
I'm not saying that this has any validity but it contradicts what you quote (which is a quote from the Koran, not Hamas's words. I've yet to see a quote that states Hamas wish to commit gemocide against the Israeli population. Maybe they do but tho say it has been explicitly stated is to my knowlege untrue.Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that.
Trying to associate the Palestinians with the Nazi's eh? So what one Palestinian did means that all Palestinians are Nazi's? Classy. Funnily enough there was no great hatred between Muslims and Jews before the mass immigration to the area by people who explicitly stated their intention to establish a Jewish state in Palestine. Some prominent Zionists also apparently colllaborated with the Nazi's. Does that make Zionists Nazi's? Now there's a noodle scratcher.Suffice to say, any Jewish person at the mercy of Hamas would have a very brutal existence, should they have an existence at all. Palestinian religious leaders helped the Nazis recruit Muslim SS divisions to assist in the killing of Jews afterall. Palestinians and Nazis were united in their common hatred of Jewish people. Theres been nothing since to indicate they would be any kinder today.Avraham Stern and his followers announced that
"The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:
1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.
2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,
3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.
Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side."0 -
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See above. This is not an explicit statement of their intention to commit genocide against the Jewish population of Israel.horseflesh wrote: »As referenced by Sand (twice), it's part of their charter.0
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