1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

dublincelt

For all the Israeli apologists on here. Special mention goes to IDF lover mairt. I hope you are proud of your band of heroes. You do not need to be a "military expert" to know that using White Phosphorous in a built up slum like Gaza would only lead to the killing of innocents. Was that the intention all along? Punish the people of Gaza for their DEMOCRATIC right? God love that poor baby. Humanity is tarnished by the west's inaction to intervene to stop the violence. If I am to be banned for this post, so be it. But to the people championing the Israeli assault, here is the reality..





Look what evil Hamas made us do! This is all evil Hamas fault for using children as human shields from our F16 fighters and the phosphorous we rain down on them.

P a l e s t i n e F r e e V o i c e©: FOCUSED LETHALITY:Phosphorous Bomb Rain Over Northern Gaza

The HRW Human Rights Watch senior analyst Marc Garlasco said in an interview on France Chanel 4 TV that .."Israeli artillery bursted fire of white phosphorous shells over Gaza City."Garlasco said .."I have been standing at the border for the last few days ,watching Israeli artillery firing white phosphorus shells into refugee camps". (As one Palestinian said: "you could hear the skin burn")

On Sunday,the Israeli military denied the accusations saying that "We would not discuss what weapons we are using."I can assure you we do not use any weapons that are prohibited by international law. We know that other nations are using phosphorous bombs,we have the right not to comment on this", the Israeli military spokesperson added.


Here's to Eoghan Harris, David Quinn, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Ian O'Doherty, Stephen King, Kevin Myers and all the other cheerleaders including Alan Shatter of FG (spokesperson for the rights of Children). Special mention goes to Gordon Brown, Condaleeza Rice and John Bolton.

You'll forever be in our thoughts for the wrong reasons.

Can others mention people I've missed out on?

Mr.Micro

dublincelt wrote: »

For all the Israeli apologists on here. Special mention goes to IDF lover mairt. I hope you are proud of your band of heroes. You do not need to be a "military expert" to know that using White Phosphorous in a built up slum like Gaza would only lead to the killing of innocents. Was that the intention all along? Punish the people of Gaza for their DEMOCRATIC right? God love that poor baby. Humanity is tarnished by the west's inaction to intervene to stop the violence. If I am to be banned for this post, so be it. But to the people championing the Israeli assault, here is the reality..





Look what evil Hamas made us do! This is all evil Hamas fault for using children as human shields from our F16 fighters and the phosphorous we rain down on them.

P a l e s t i n e F r e e V o i c e©: FOCUSED LETHALITY:Phosphorous Bomb Rain Over Northern Gaza

The HRW Human Rights Watch senior analyst Marc Garlasco said in an interview on France Chanel 4 TV that .."Israeli artillery bursted fire of white phosphorous shells over Gaza City."Garlasco said .."I have been standing at the border for the last few days ,watching Israeli artillery firing white phosphorus shells into refugee camps". (As one Palestinian said: "you could hear the skin burn")

On Sunday,the Israeli military denied the accusations saying that "We would not discuss what weapons we are using."I can assure you we do not use any weapons that are prohibited by international law. We know that other nations are using phosphorous bombs,we have the right not to comment on this", the Israeli military spokesperson added.


Here's to Eoghan Harris, David Quinn, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Ian O'Doherty, Stephen King, Kevin Myers and all the other cheerleaders including Alan Shatter of FG (spokesperson for the rights of Children). Special mention goes to Gordon Brown, Condaleeza Rice and John Bolton.

You'll forever be in our thoughts for the wrong reasons.

Can others mention people I've missed out on?

Do'nt forget the two amigos Bush and Blair, as the former gives Blair a medal, "The medal of Freedom" in Washington. Now that's irony. Repulsive.

TOMASJ

Someone a few days back on these posts said, things like this were not taking place in Gaza,
how can anyone that calls themselves human do this to an innocent baby
SHAME ON YOU ISRAEL, I wonder will (Tom Cooney) and his buddie from TV3 programme last night think this dead baby is another "manipulated" Hamas camera angle. The IDF are a disgusting bunch of murderers,

dublincelt wrote: »

For all the Israeli apologists on here. Special mention goes to IDF lover mairt. I hope you are proud of your band of heroes. You do not need to be a "military expert" to know that using White Phosphorous in a built up slum like Gaza would only lead to the killing of innocents. Was that the intention all along? Punish the people of Gaza for their DEMOCRATIC right? God love that poor baby. Humanity is tarnished by the west's inaction to intervene to stop the violence. If I am to be banned for this post, so be it. But to the people championing the Israeli assault, here is the reality..





Look what evil Hamas made us do! This is all evil Hamas fault for using children as human shields from our F16 fighters and the phosphorous we rain down on them.

P a l e s t i n e F r e e V o i c e©: FOCUSED LETHALITY:Phosphorous Bomb Rain Over Northern Gaza

The HRW Human Rights Watch senior analyst Marc Garlasco said in an interview on France Chanel 4 TV that .."Israeli artillery bursted fire of white phosphorous shells over Gaza City."Garlasco said .."I have been standing at the border for the last few days ,watching Israeli artillery firing white phosphorus shells into refugee camps". (As one Palestinian said: "you could hear the skin burn")

On Sunday,the Israeli military denied the accusations saying that "We would not discuss what weapons we are using."I can assure you we do not use any weapons that are prohibited by international law. We know that other nations are using phosphorous bombs,we have the right not to comment on this", the Israeli military spokesperson added.


Here's to Eoghan Harris, David Quinn, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Ian O'Doherty, Stephen King, Kevin Myers and all the other cheerleaders including Alan Shatter of FG (spokesperson for the rights of Children). Special mention goes to Gordon Brown, Condaleeza Rice and John Bolton.

You'll forever be in our thoughts for the wrong reasons.

Can others mention people I've missed out on?

Manic Moran

Someone a few days back on these posts said, things like this were not taking place in Gaza,

I don't think anyone was disingenous enough to say that kids weren't being barbequeued.

NTM

Sand

Look what evil Hamas made us do! This is all evil Hamas fault for using children as human shields from our F16 fighters and the phosphorous we rain down on them.

I wonder if Hamas will stop the pointless rocket attacks to prevent more senseless loss of life? Hamas chose to provoke Israel by launching thousands of rockets at it, the people of Gaza chose Hamas to represent them. This is the result they chose.

Lemming

Sand wrote: »

I wonder if Hamas will stop the pointless rocket attacks to prevent more senseless loss of life? Hamas chose to provoke Israel by launching thousands of rockets at it, the people of Gaza chose Hamas to represent them. This is the result they chose.

A relevant question. Although a not entirely honest after-thought. Lets look at it this way. Apply your question in reverse and it's equally relevant with an equally not entirely honest after-thought.

"I wonder if Israel will stop the pointless blockade and harassement to prevent more senseless loss of life due to lack of medical facilities, sanitation, and starvation? Israel has chosen to provoke a response by choking the life out of the entire population of Gaza by blockading them and denying 80% of aid shipments. The people of Israel choose their leaders to represent them. This is the result they chose."


Cause and effect. Effect and cause. Two sides of the exact same coin, with two sides as disgustingly pig-filthy as the other.

Macha

I knew the US were seriously swayed by Israel but this is crazy:

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he called President George W. Bush to seek an abstention from the US, a key Israeli ally at the United Nations.

"I said: 'Get me President Bush on the phone,'" Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon. "They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn't care: 'I need to talk to him now.' He got off the podium and spoke to me."

Olmert said he argued that the United States should not vote in favor, and the president then called Rice and told her not to do so.

"She was left pretty embarrassed," Olmert said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0113/breaking13.html?via=mr

I really don't see what the US has to gain by supporting the Israeli lobby. It's almost as if Olmert is mocking them for being such lapdogs.

jank

I wonder if Hamas will stop the pointless rocket attacks to prevent more senseless loss of life? Hamas chose to provoke Israel by launching thousands of rockets at it, the people of Gaza chose Hamas to represent them. This is the result they chose.

I agree but that doesnt make it right, does it?

If i throw a stone at your house are you allowed shoot me? And say sure what did he expect.

Anyway nobody wins here. And the only real losers are Israel in the long run and of course everybody that dies between then.

meditraitor

Sand wrote: »

I wonder if Hamas will stop the pointless rocket attacks to prevent more senseless loss of life? Hamas chose to provoke Israel by launching thousands of rockets at it, the people of Gaza chose Hamas to represent them. This is the result they chose.

For anyone who wonders why someone could be so utterly and honestly uncaring about the deaths of another human
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/how-israels-propaganda-ma_b_156767.html

How the isreali propoganda machine works, this is an overview and if you break it down it can be used on an individual basis (obviously over used here)....As in past Mideast conflicts, both the media story line and political commentary here in the U.S. has closely followed Israel's talking points on the war. This has been an essential component in Israel's early success and in its ability to prolong fighting without U.S. pushback. Because it recognizes the importance of the propaganda war, Israel fights on this front as vigorously and disproportionately as it engages on the battlefield.

Here's how they have done it:

1) Define the terms of debate, and you win the debate. Early on, the Israelis work to define the context, the starting point, and the story line that will shape understanding of the war. In this instance, for example, they succeeded by constant repetition, in establishing the notion that the starting point of the conflict was December 19th, the end of the six-month ceasefire (which Israel described as "unilaterally ended by Hamas"). In doing so, they ignored, of course, their own early November violations, and their failure to honor their commitment in the ceasefire to open Gaza's borders. They also ignored their having reduced Gaza into a dependency, a process which began long before and continued after their withdrawal in 2005. Because they know that most Americans do not closely follow the conflict and are inclined to believe, as the line goes, "what they hear over and over again," this tactic of preemptive definition and repetition succeeds.

2) Recognize that stereotypes work. Because, for generations, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been defined with positive cultural images of Israel and negative stereotypes of Palestinians, Israel's propagandists have an advantage here that is easy to exploit. Because the story has long been seen as "Israeli humanity confronting the Palestinian problem," media coverage of any conflict begins with how "the problem" is affecting the Israeli people. As Golda Meir once put it, "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children, but we can never forgive them for making us kill their children." And so, it was not surprising that, despite the disproportionate suffering of the Palestinians, media coverage attempted to "balance" the story, giving an extensive treatment, with photos, of anguished and fearful Israelis and the impact the war was having on them. Early on, when media treatment mattered most, Palestinians were reduced, as always, to mere numbers or objectified as "collateral damage."

3) Anticipate and count on your opponent's blunders. Hamas' stupidity played into Israel's strategy. From the outset, Israel could count on the fact that Hamas would launch rockets and issue the kind of threats that Israel could then parley into sympathy in the West. Knowing that these would most certainly come, and could be exploited, was an advantage in their propaganda war.

4) Be everywhere, and say the same thing -- and make sure your opponents remain as invisible as possible. Israel begins each war with a host of English-speaking spokespersons (many born in the West) available at any time for every media outlet (it's no accident, for example, that Israel has an "Arab" Consul General in Atlanta - that's where CNN is). The work of their propaganda operation, which spreads multiple spokespersons in venues across the United States with consistent talking points, guarantees success. At the same time, they are able to deny media access to Gaza, only allowing the Western reporters to operate near the war zone under IDF supervision, guaranteeing Israel the opportunity to shape every aspect of the story while removing the possibility of independent verification of the horror unfolding in Gaza.

5) Give no ground. Since half of the story will be determined by what political leaders say and do, the political apparatus in Washington is also pressed into service, ensuring that White House and Congressional leadership will "toe the line." Statements issued by Congress, therefore, reflect the talking points and, together, the Israeli spokespersons, the political commentators, and the Congressional statements serve as echoes of one another.

6) Deny, deny, deny. When events and reality break through, contradicting the Israeli-established narrative, creating stories that run counter to the imposed story line, the propaganda machine works overtime to deny, deny, deny (saying quite boldly, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?"), and/or concoct a counter-narrative that shifts the blame ("We didn't do it, they made us"). In this instance, that means asserting that the death of Palestinian civilians is always the fault of someone else, or that reporters or their opponents are staging the photos of grief (as if to say, "Arabs don't really grieve like we do").

7) The last refuge.... When all else fails, point to a few examples of outrageous anti-Semitism, generalize them, suggesting that that is what motivates critics. It stings, and may be over-used, but it can silence or put critics on the defensive.

Does anyone get the feeling Giyus or another of the muslim hating groups is at play here.
How can normal right thinking people continually use foggy rhetoric to hide their lack of feeling for this slaughter and in some cases try explain it away as if it was not important that these people have been imprisoned for a generation and get culled every few years when the Isrealis build up a good stock of US supplied arms.......

cozmik

taconnol wrote: »

I really don't see what the US has to gain by supporting the Israeli lobby. It's almost as if Olmert is mocking them for being such lapdogs.

In short, the growing U.S. support for the Israeli government, like U.S. support for allies elsewhere in the world, is not motivated primarily by objective security needs or a strong moral commitment to the country. Rather, as elsewhere, U.S. foreign policy is motivated primarily to advance its own perceived strategic interests.

http://www.fpif.org/papers/usisrael.html

youcrazyjesus!

Sand wrote: »

I wonder if Hamas will stop the pointless rocket attacks to prevent more senseless loss of life? Hamas chose to provoke Israel by launching thousands of rockets at it, the people of Gaza chose Hamas to represent them. This is the result they chose.

Disgusting comment. Shameful.

Found this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs

UNRWA spokesman reports Israeli retraction of mortar claims




Good article by Media Lens, people might not agree with it but I found it interesting:

http://medialens.org/alerts/index.php

Some highlights:

"Even the death toll cited above does little to communicate the true one-sidedness of the wider violence, injustice and cruelty. One hardly knows where to begin. For example, largely unmentioned by the media, prior to the latest invasion, 14 Israelis had been killed by mostly homemade rockets fired from Gaza over the last seven years as against 5,000 Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks"

"As ever, Israeli politicians claim to have been heroically restraining themselves and their capacity for violence (a manifest source of pride) in the face of endless provocation. And yet, as recently as February-March last year 110 Palestinian civilians were killed during 'Operation Winter Heat'."

"During the ceasefire, Israel placed severe restrictions on the number of trucks allowed to bring food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza. Israeli historian, Avi Shlaim, professor of international relations at the University of Oxford, wrote in the Guardian:

"It is difficult to see how starving and freezing the civilians of Gaza could protect the people on the Israeli side of the border. But even if it did, it would still be immoral, a form of collective punishment that is strictly forbidden by international humanitarian law. The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash."

Mr.Micro

In short, the growing U.S. support for the Israeli government, like U.S. support for allies elsewhere in the world, is not motivated primarily by objective security needs or a strong moral commitment to the country. Rather, as elsewhere, U.S. foreign policy is motivated primarily to advance its own perceived strategic interests.

I tend to agree with much of this post. The US has a deep fear of terrorists from the middle east and is happy IMO for Israel to do its dirty work by proxy in the region. This proxy servant appears only too willing to do the dirty deeds and kill at will in Gaza, Lebanon or even Iran if it felt the need so as to protect itself and the interests of its big brother the US. Its all about the flow of oil at the end of the day.

Darragh29

You know you are dealing with indoctrinated idiots when you see a picture like this appearing on the front page of your newspaper...

A guy getting out a prayer shawl to pray to his God on top of a f*cking tank.

Mr.Micro

Darragh29 wrote: »

You know you are dealing with indoctrinated idiots when you see a picture like this appearing on the front page of your newspaper...

A guy getting out a prayer shawl to pray to his God on top of a f*cking tank.

He should not bother as if he or others like him really believed in a God then he would not be in a tank or part of any killing machine. Religion is just an excuse to kill others that are not of the same indoctrination.

Darragh29

To the poster who put up the pic of the baby, I'm afraid you simply cannot shame these people, they are catastrophically indoctrinated as a nation, and are probably going to be the cause of the next major worldwide conflict, and they will relish it, because they are extremists and religious fundamentalists of the worst kind.

Mr.Micro

Darragh29 wrote: »

To the poster who put up the pic of the baby, I'm afraid you simply cannot shame these people, they are catastrophically indoctrinated as a nation, and are probably going to be the cause of the next major worldwide conflict, and they will relish it, because they are extremists and religious fundamentalists of the worst kind.

Extreme fundamentalists who are incapable of compassion or humanity but just stick immovably to their mantra as the afterlife is what really matters.All superstitious nonesense IMO. When are they going to wake up and realize that this lfe is all we get or at least some do, others such as the poor baby are murdered. Nobody in his/her right mind can believe that killing innocents is right.

Darragh29

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Extreme fundamentalists who are incapable of compassion or humanity but just stick immovably to their mantra as the after life is what really matters. When are they going to wake up and realize that this lfe is all we get or at least some do, others such as the poor baby are murdered.

I've never seen a nation so intrasigent or insecure it itself as the people of Israel. It's like looking at a cult, where people are just so indoctrinated, when you ask them are they not slightly ashamed to be associated with a particular course of action, that they just put on that stupid wry smile, as if they have just ran what they are about to say, by their God and he has approved, and give you more of their mantra.

Mr.Micro

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've never seen a nation so intrasigent or insecure it itself as the people of Israel. It's like looking at a cult, where people are just so indoctrinated, when you ask them are they not slightly ashamed to be associated with a particular course of action, that they just put on that stupid wry smile, as if they have just ran what they are about to say, by their God and he has approved, and give you more of their mantra.

IMO I think that Israel relishes its might in the region. It should start to adapt a more diplomatic approach in the future, as should its neighbours, and particularly Hamas who have gained nothing in their imbecilic rocket attacks and rhetoric, as one day there may be no turning back from total destruction for any side, and such a scenario may not be long in coming. The bottom line is no matter what mantra they have Jewish or Muslim or whatever they all believe in an afterlife so death is no big deal to them, either to deal it or receive it.

youcrazyjesus!

Mr.Micro wrote: »

IMO I think that Israel relishes its might in the region. It should start to adapt a more diplomatic approach in the future, as should its neighbours, and particularly Hamas who have gained nothing in their imbecilic rocket attacks and rhetoric, as one day there may be no turning back from total destruction for any side, and such a scenario may not be long in coming. The bottom line is no matter what mantra they have Jewish or Muslim or whatever they all believe in an afterlife so death is no big deal to them, either to deal it or receive it.

Not sure about that. Israel would do well to make peace now, things don't stay the same forever. The balance of power might change, maybe sooner than is currently thought. Israel should make peace from a position of strength.

Nick_oliveri

I am now of the opinion that the general population is so used to death that most simply ignore it and move on. They dont need a reason to kill innocents anymore(Iraq..)

They'd rather argue about which side they are on, I'll admit that i believe that the surge is disgusting, just dont lose sight of the bigger picture, your fellow man/the other "statistic", regardless of the race, political affiliation. religion or colour.

The ones in control sit back and do **** all, while everyone else without a weapon gets killed or horribly injured. Anyone that uses these weapons in Urban environments are evil bastards- missiles, automatic weapons or WP.

Shelka

How can people come on here and call what Isreal is doing 'protecting'?
They are not retaliating because of terrorist attacks on Isreal. They are tearing gaza apart, because they think the territory is rightfully theirs. Palenstine hasn't got a chance against them and they are well aware of that.

turgon

So I assume all yee fine folks think its just good the way Hamas bombs Israel?

Irish people werent like this after the Dublin Monaghan bombing if I remember right. There were calls for blood then, but its ok for Hamas. Yeah its ok for Hamas to nuke Israel. Why? See the picture of the baby? Hamas should be allowed tear the crap out of Israel :rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

turgon wrote: »

So I assume all yee fine folks think its just good the way Hamas bombs Israel?

Irish people werent like this after the Dublin Monaghan bombing if I remember right. There were calls for blood then, but its ok for Hamas. Yeah its ok for Hamas to nuke Israel. Why? See the picture of the baby? Hamas should be allowed tear the crap out of Israel :rolleyes:

No I do'nt think people have said that, its the disproportionate response and the weapons it uses thats the real concern.

youcrazyjesus!

turgon wrote: »

So I assume all yee fine folks think its just good the way Hamas bombs Israel?

Irish people werent like this after the Dublin Monaghan bombing if I remember right. There were calls for blood then, but its ok for Hamas. Yeah its ok for Hamas to nuke Israel. Why? See the picture of the baby? Hamas should be allowed tear the crap out of Israel :rolleyes:

What do you suggest Hamas do to free Palestinians from occupation and shelling?

By any objective analysis 8,000 rockets which have killed 20 people are spectularly ineffective, next to Israel's murder of 5,000 Palestinians in the same time period it can put firmly into the justifiable retaliation category and Hamas has unilaterally ended suicide bombings. Unfortunately some people can only see the debate 1 way, Hamas attacks Israel therefore xyz.

I don't think Hamas should rocket Israel btw personally, for a start it's a stupid tactic.

CK.1

turgon wrote: »

So I assume all yee fine folks think its just good the way Hamas bombs Israel?

Irish people werent like this after the Dublin Monaghan bombing if I remember right. There were calls for blood then, but its ok for Hamas. Yeah its ok for Hamas to nuke Israel. Why? See the picture of the baby? Hamas should be allowed tear the crap out of Israel :rolleyes:

What the **** are you talking about? The real comparison you should be making is when the IRA set off one of their many bombs in the UK (e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/24/newsid_2523000/2523345.stm), did the British Army launch an attack on Ireland and kill 1000 people? No they didn't. Why? because it would be totally unacceptable. But when the British Army shot 13 people in Derry we went and burned their embassy to the ground (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/2/newsid_2758000/2758163.stm). I can't believe Irish people can sympathise with what Israel are doing given the history of our country. I wish I could deport the lot of you to Israel.

CK.1

dublincelt wrote: »

Sickening. I hope those responsible pay the price for this, in this life, or the next.

IRISH RAIL

Shelka wrote: »

How can people come on here and call what Isreal is doing 'protecting'?
They are not retaliating because of terrorist attacks on Isreal. They are tearing gaza apart, because they think the territory is rightfully theirs. Palenstine hasn't got a chance against them and they are well aware of that.

Its easy if you have been there first hand. witnessing grads coming down in playgrounds, and having 15 seconds to find shelter dozens of times every day. also if you were educated on the subject and didnt get sucked into Hamas propoganda like other posters here.

also what would people consider a proportionate responce?
would it be ok for Israel to fire an equal number of rockets back ?

Darragh29

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Its easy if you have been there first hand. witnessing grads coming down in playgrounds, and having 15 seconds to find shelter dozens of times every day. also if you were educated on the subject and didnt get sucked into Hamas propoganda like other posters here.

also what would people consider a proportionate responce?
would it be ok for Israel to fire an equal number of rockets back ?

What Hamas propaganda??? Is the picture of that baby Hamas propaganda???

Mr.Micro

Gaza crisis spills onto the web .http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7827293.stm

Shelka

[[quote=turgon;58595431]So I assume all yee fine folks think its just good the way Hamas bombs Israel? unquote]]

Hamas is terrible. Thats a given. I'm not condoning them at all. I didn't say it was alright for them to bomb Isreal. I'm saying I'm anti-isreali-action, not pro-hamas. Hamas isn't Palestine.

OPEN YOUR EYES. Take a look at whats happening...(and whats been happening since 1911. Read some history. Palestine is being destroyed. Isreal knows that the Palestinians can't stand up to their attacks.