1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

TOMASJ

a link below to the work of ambulance crew in Gaza it includes footage of a school shelled by the heroic IDF,
it s from a French TV channel and paints a grim picture of what the people of Gazi have went trough.
It is one of the best reports i have seen to date.


http://www.france24.com/en/20090116-gaza-israel-assault-medics-violence-hospital-war-palestinian

BlaasForRafa

Nodin wrote: »

They're fighting a group of semi-trained fighters with no AA capability, no anti-tank capability, at distance.....Its like a few young fellahs taking to some granny in a wheel chair with hurleys and bars. Nothing "stunning" there at all.

And where was Hamas's pre-incursion promise to make Gaza a "Stalingrad" for idf soldiers?, too busy hiding behind their humans shields it seems.

Macha

Jesus, just think of the psychological damage to these people, even above all the physical damage. In Ireland, they would be getting therapists, psychiatrists, the best care, the best medical attention.

But some people think that they should just be grateful when there's no bombing. Truly shocking. Thanks for the link TOMASJ

Offy

taconnol wrote: »

Jesus, just think of the psychological damage to these people, even above all the physical damage. In Ireland, they would be getting therapists, psychiatrists, the best care, the best medical attention.

But some people think that they should just be grateful when there's no bombing. Truly shocking. Thanks for the link TOMASJ

I disagree, in Ireland they would break into their homes in the early hours and shoot them in the head in front of whoever might happen to be in that house or we would visit their major cities and blow their finical centres to kingdom come as is Irish history. This Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not over. The Israelis have just helped Hamas to thicken their ranks and I would expect if you keep an eye on the situation you will see Hamas launching even more attacks within the next year or two. Israel will use these attacks to launch an even larger offensive. I might be wrong but I suspect this offencive was planned with this intent. A few years ago I had a falling out with a mod when I said the war at the time was about ethnic clensing and not weapons of mass distruction, I was wrong then, it was simple oil theift and I might be wrong again but I dont think Im wrong when I say its not about rocket attacks in Israel.

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And where was Hamas's pre-incursion promise to make Gaza a "Stalingrad" for idf soldiers?,.

Bit hard to do that when they won't close with them, as pointed out earlier.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

too busy hiding behind their humans shields it seems.

The usual unproven nonsense....

Nodin

Offy wrote: »

A few years ago I had a falling out with a mod when I said the war at the time was about ethnic clensing and not weapons of mass distruction, I was wrong then, it was simple oil theift and I might be wrong again but I dont think Im wrong when I say its not about rocket attacks in Israel.

What the jaysus...?

Offy

Nodin wrote: »

What the jaysus...?

Can you expand on that?

Manic Moran

I support the argument because the blockade was not removed. Simple as. The people of Gaza are practically 100% dependent on food aid and outside help.

They would be anyway. Nowhere near enough farm land to provide their own food. Unless they had only seafood diets, I guess.

All those munitions which were recently used by Hamas in the last month or so or blown up by the Israelis (and the zoo animals etc, talk about priorities) got into the country somehow, and not through the open border crossings. Credit to them for their smuggling operations, but negative marks for bringing in weapons contrary to the original agreement and causing the tightening of the blockade.

NTM

marcsignal

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And where was Hamas's pre-incursion promise to make Gaza a "Stalingrad" for idf soldiers?, too busy hiding behind their humans shields it seems.

well it would seem that the IDF are so confident in achieving their mission that Desertions are up 30% since 2001, to an average of 3500 per year.

Macha

Manic Moran wrote: »

They would be anyway. Nowhere near enough farm land to provide their own food. Unless they had only seafood diets, I guess.

True, well, that brings us back to the issue of land, which is what this is all about in the end. The Israelis have just pushed and pushed and if they could, they'd just push them into the sea.

Manic Moran wrote: »

All those munitions which were recently used by Hamas in the last month or so or blown up by the Israelis (and the zoo animals etc, talk about priorities) got into the country somehow, and not through the open border crossings. Credit to them for their smuggling operations, but negative marks for bringing in weapons contrary to the original agreement and causing the tightening of the blockade.

Which begs the question: why is it OK for Israel to get €3bn in military aid every year, hold nuclear weapons and have one of the most advanced armies in the world, but Palestinians aren't allowed to have any weapons?

Answer: Double standards

bobbyjoe

Manic Moran wrote: »

They would be anyway. Nowhere near enough farm land to provide their own food. Unless they had only seafood diets, I guess.

All those munitions which were recently used by Hamas in the last month or so or blown up by the Israelis (and the zoo animals etc, talk about priorities) got into the country somehow, and not through the open border crossings. Credit to them for their smuggling operations, but negative marks for bringing in weapons contrary to the original agreement and causing the tightening of the blockade.

NTM

Their not allowed fish either.

TOMASJ

Manic Moran wrote: »

They would be anyway. Nowhere near enough farm land to provide their own food. Unless they had only seafood diets, I guess.

Yea if they had not had their land stolen from them by the Zionists the Palestinians probably could export food products,
that's what happens when you drive people into the concentration camp that is Gaza.

Macha

TOMASJ wrote: »

Yea if they had not had their land stolen from them by the Zionists the Palestinians probably could export food products,
that's what happens when you drive people into the concentration camp that is Gaza.

Indeed





http://www.ccmep.org/delegations/maps/palestine.html

marcsignal

what i think is also striking is the amount of Jewish intellectuals around the world that are speaking out about what's going on.

Here in Ireland, Dr. Ronit Lentin wrote a very powerful letter to the Irish Times last week, condemning Israels actions, and Professor Norman Finkelstein gives a very informative talk, that's well worth a listen, at Case Western Reserve University HERE on youtube, recorded on Dec 10th last.
These are only two examples, but there are many others speaking out too.
They can't all be 'self hating Jews' as they are often labeled.

Offy

marcsignal wrote: »

what i think is also striking is the amount of Jewish intellectuals around the world that are speaking out about what's going on.

Here in Ireland, Dr. Ronit Lentin wrote a very powerful letter to the times last week condemning Israels actions, and Professor Norman Finkelstien gives a very informative talk, that's well worth a listen, at Case Western Reserve University HERE on youtube, recorded on Dec 10th last.
These are only two examples, but there are many others speaking out too.
They can't all be 'self hating Jews' as they are often labled.

Not all Germans were Nazis.

marcsignal

Offy wrote: »

Not all Germans were Nazis.

+1

good point, i never thought about it in that context

Matt Holck

marcsignal wrote: »

well it would seem that the IDF are so confident in achieving their mission that Desertions are up 30% since 2001, to an average of 3500 per year.

An increase in desertion from 2001 by 30%,
does not mean that a lot of Jewish youth are draft dodging.
(apparently serving in the IDF is not voluntary)
It only means the % that deserted is 30% greater than in 2001.
If 1% failed to report for duty in 2001, 1.3% didn't show in 2007.
The article did not give those numbers so I really can't say.

Over the past decade the IDF has not been able to locate about 4,000 deserters, and at least half of them are believed to be living abroad.

how many troops does the IDF have?

marcsignal

Matt Holck wrote: »

An increase in desertion from 2001 by 30%,
does not mean that a lot of Jewish youth are draft dodging.
(apparently serving in the IDF is not voluntary)
It only means the % that deserted is 30% greater than in 2001.
If 1% failed to report for duty in 2001, 1.3% didn't show in 2007.
The article did not give those numbers so I really can't say.

possibly, I just thought it was interesting to find it was such a problem.

Check out the other google info HERE. Many of the sites are Israeli based from what i can make out.

Matt Holck wrote: »

how many troops does the IDF have?

*edit*

i believe It consists of 186,500 regular troops supplemented by a reserve force of 445,000.

taken from The Guardian

Serenity Now!

marcsignal wrote: »

what i think is also striking is the amount of Jewish intellectuals around the world that are speaking out about what's going on.

Here in Ireland, Dr. Ronit Lentin wrote a very powerful letter to the Irish Times last week, condemning Israels actions, and Professor Norman Finkelstein gives a very informative talk, that's well worth a listen, at Case Western Reserve University HERE on youtube, recorded on Dec 10th last.
These are only two examples, but there are many others speaking out too.
They can't all be 'self hating Jews' as they are often labeled.

Yes as well as objectors within Israel's borders and even government, there are many Jews outside of Israel that can have a whole range of views on what is going on there. The reason being that being Jewish does not automatically make one a 'Zionist'. In fact the sooner people get this into their scones, the effin' better.

I see on Al-Jaz that Hamas have fired three more rockets into Sth Israel since declaring a 'ceasefire' :rolleyes:

marcsignal

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Yes as well as objectors within Israel's borders and even government, there are many Jews outside of Israel that can have a whole range of views on what is going on there. The reason being that being Jewish does not automatically make one a 'Zionist'. In fact the sooner people get this into their scones, the effin' better.

yeah thats certainly a true and accurate statement, but we must also remain cognisant of the fact that that the seeds of this 'confusion' are often sown by, and exploited by Zionists themselves, who seem to frequently wrap themselves in the mantle of the 'suffering of the Jewish people' to further their own agenda.

Macha

marcsignal wrote: »

yeah thats certainly a true and accurate statement, but we must also remain cognisant of the fact that that the seeds of this 'confusion' are often sown by, and exploited by Zionists themselves, who seem to frequently wrap themselves in the mantle of the 'suffering of the Jewish people' to further their own agenda.

Prime example!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/16/elizabeth-wurtzel-antisemitism-israel-gaza

Unbelievable article.

humberklog

Offy wrote: »

Not all Germans were Nazis.

And to further your good point - Not all Jews are Israeli (although we can be).

Offy

taconnol wrote: »

Prime example!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/16/elizabeth-wurtzel-antisemitism-israel-gaza

Unbelievable article.

I just read that article and now I feel sick. I cannot understand how an educated, intelligent woman could possibly believe what she wrote.

Offy

humberklog wrote: »

And to further your good point - Not all Jews are Israeli (although we can be).

And thats what I was saying. Let me expand. In my humble opinion the Israeli government ARE guilty of war crimes but that should not incur the wrath of the world on Jewish people. I do not support Hamas NOR do I support Israel. I will shout louder against Israel because they commit more murders than Hamas but both are wrong. As an Irishman I can understand why Hamas exist and that reason IS Israel. As long as Israel murder innocent citizens they will feed Hamas and Im sure Israel realise this which is why I suspect Isreal want Hamas to exist.
Israel likes to war.
Israel likes to kill civilians.
Israel likes to laugh at the UN.
A child that is badly abused will grow up to be abusive.
Israel is abusive.
The Nazis abused the Jews.
These Jews formed Israel.
These Jews like to abuse Palestinians.
Israel history = QED.
EOF.

marcsignal

Offy wrote: »

I just read that article and now I feel sick. I cannot understand how an educated, intelligent woman could possibly believe what she wrote.

if you fancy being nauseated further, just read the article by Alan Dershowitz she links :eek:

Offy

marcsignal wrote: »

if you fancy being nauseated further, just read the article by Alan Dershowitz she links :eek:

No thanks, if I see dog crap on the ground I dont need to taste it to know its dog crap.

marcsignal

Offy wrote: »

No thanks, if I see dog crap on the ground I dont need to taste it to know its dog crap.

PMSL :D

hilarious analogy !!

Suff

This is my take on the whole anti-Semitic thing....

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained “we must, above all, make it an international political issue.”
Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”

Zionist reliance on Anti-Semitism to further their goals continues to this day. Studies of immigration records reflect increased immigration to the Zionist state during times of increased anti-Semitism. Without a continued inflow of Jewish immigrants to the state of "Israel", it is estimated that within a decade the Jewish population of the Zionist state will become the minority.
In order to maintain a Jewish majority in the state of "Israel", its leaders promote anti-Semitism throughout the world to "encourage" Jews to leave their homelands and seek "refuge".
On November 17, 2003 Zionist leader, Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, told Jews in Italy the best way to escape "a great wave of anti-Semitism" is to move and settle in the state of Israel. This has been the Zionist ideology from the beginning to the present time. "The best solution to anti-Semitism is immigration to Israel. It is the only place on Earth where Jews can live as Jews," he said.

Basically, to state that Arabs are Anti-Semitic is rediculess...Semitic people are the Arabs, Arameans, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

ref: Jews Against Zionism

marcsignal

Good Post Suff

Suff wrote: »

Basically, to state that Arabs are Anti-Semitic is rediculess...Semitic people are the Arabs, Arameans, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

to further that point "Norman Finkelstein" often uses the comparison of Native Americans and European Settlers. He says that the violent resistance of Native American Indians to European Settlers, was due to 'fear of displacement' from their land, and that if any Historian tried to suggest that it was because of 'Anti-Whiteism' or 'Anti-Christianism' or 'Anti-Europeanism' you would rightly burst out laughing in their face.

Nodin

marcsignal wrote: »

if you fancy being nauseated further, just read the article by Alan Dershowitz she links :eek:

Mr Alan 'Torture was quite effective for the Germans, so we should use it' Dershowitz to you. A dirt bird.