1 Israeli = 155 Palestinians

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

"Israel wants control of UN reconstruction effort.

Bethlehem – Ma’an – Israel is insisting that any money allocated to Gaza’s reconstruction not go to Hamas or its affiliates, and that the United Nations sends a detailed list of required equipment for approval before it enters the Strip.

According to diplomatic sources working at a Western office in Israel, the Israel is concerned that money may reach Hamas and is insisting on playing a large role and the surveillance of monetary inflow for reconstruction projects.

Israel is also studying the possibility of expanding a list of main materials considered for entering Gaza, demanding that the UN and other relief organizations provide information on anything headed toward Gaza, the same diplomatic sources said.

Israel is insisting that the UN and any other organization first obtain a permit before implementing pledges, as well as assurances that the UN will not participate directly with Hamas in Gaza’s reconstruction."
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=35123

The arrogance of these people is staggering !!!

Its not arrogance at all, its completely understandable.

If Hamas is given the money first thing they'll do is buy more rockets to target Israel.

Also note that palestinian militants have already broken the ceasefire
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057066.html

Manic Moran

If you've just gone through all the time and effort of a three-week campaign against Hamas, I think it's to be expected that you might want to make sure that they're not going to benefit from the reconstruction. I've little issue with making it a UN reconstruction effort, and not a Hamas one.

NTM

The Saint

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you've just gone through all the time and effort of a three-week campaign against Hamas, I think it's to be expected that you might want to make sure that they're not going to benefit from the reconstruction. I've little issue with making it a UN reconstruction effort, and not a Hamas one.

NTM

I agree, the money should not go to Hamas. It should be a UN effort but the Israelis should have no say about what they're allowed to bring in. I thought they said Gaza wasn't occupied, then let the UN to do what is necessary. Israel destroyed the place. They have no right to to have an input on its reconstruction.

dresden8

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Also note that palestinian militants have already broken the ceasefire
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057066.html

Indeed. Israel has granted them 24 hours free from 50 years of ethnic cleansing,oppression and mass murder of civilians and those ungrateful raghead fnckers won't kiss Israel's ass for it.

No wonder there's no peace.

blackgold>>

white phosphorus kids burned.... warning graphic
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ismpalestine/with/3209638852/
isreal broke it on november 5th and also jan 19 .

BlaasForRafa

dresden8 wrote: »

Indeed. Israel has granted them 24 hours free from 50 years of ethnic cleansing,oppression and mass murder of civilians and those ungrateful raghead fnckers won't kiss Israel's ass for it.

No wonder there's no peace.

Leave out the amateur dramatics. If you say your going to have a ceasefire then you keep to it. Its not a ceasefire if one side continues firing.

lwellan dowd

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulaa
"Israel wants control of UN reconstruction effort.

Bethlehem – Ma’an – Israel is insisting that any money allocated to Gaza’s reconstruction not go to Hamas or its affiliates, and that the United Nations sends a detailed list of required equipment for approval before it enters the Strip.

According to diplomatic sources working at a Western office in Israel, the Israel is concerned that money may reach Hamas and is insisting on playing a large role and the surveillance of monetary inflow for reconstruction projects.

Israel is also studying the possibility of expanding a list of main materials considered for entering Gaza, demanding that the UN and other relief organizations provide information on anything headed toward Gaza, the same diplomatic sources said.

Israel is insisting that the UN and any other organization first obtain a permit before implementing pledges, as well as assurances that the UN will not participate directly with Hamas in Gaza’s reconstruction."


The arrogance of these people is staggering !!!

WOW Im speechless. (Offy)


Disclaimrer:
Unless you are in the full of your health to not attempt to read this post. Original posters have experienced subsequent loss of speech, imbalance and infectious bouts of melodrama

"Quotes WOW ...STAGGERING........SPEECHLESS"

There should be a health warning on that post. Moderators can you invoke some health and safety guidelines for these virtuous contributors.


Although I have not experienced similar symptoms to Offy and Paulaa, I too share their sense of indignation and outrage.

The arrogance of the Israeli government protecting their women and children, Oaps, schools and hospitals from future horrific attacks. How dare they, deny Hammas access to weaponry, which would be fired exclusively into Israel.

woooo starting to feel woooooooozy.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its not arrogance at all, its completely understandable.

If Hamas is given the money first thing they'll do is buy more rockets to target Israel.

Also note that palestinian militants have already broken the ceasefire
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057066.html

It is understandable, but for the reasons dresden8 gave imo.

I have no problem with Hammas not getting any aid money but I do think it should be administered by a neutral party, certainly not Israel. They are not exactly trustworthy in their agreements.

They are overstepping the mark when they start to insist that the UN must have permits and do as they're told FGS. This kind of arrogance is what will in time destroy them imo. There's a lot of talk about other countries having nuclear capabilities, tbh I worry more about it being in the hands of a warmongering, arrogant regime like Israel.

As to your link, there have been several reports on TV stations that Israel had already broken it within a few hours of announcing the ceasefire.

On Monday "At the same time, one Palestinian was killed by Israeli warships’ heavy shooting, at Palestinians’ houses, ongoing since the early morning hours, in Al-Atatra area, in Beit Lahia, north of the Strip."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/articles/34/Two_Children_Killed_One_Palestinian_Injured_Since.html
This report was also on France24 earlier.

Also from your link
"Hamas militants on Monday took steps to avoid violating the cease-fire, not firing any rockets into Israel and not attacking the IDF troops still stationed in the Strip. "

dresden8

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Leave out the amateur dramatics. If you say your going to have a ceasefire then you keep to it. Its not a ceasefire if one side continues firing.

Amateur dramatics? At least 1,200 people killed in three weeks. The vast majority of them civilians?

UN compounds, workers and refugees sheltering therein attacked?

You may remember the western world bombed the crap out of Former Republic of Yugoslavia for exactly the same thing not so long ago.

Luckily enough the Israelis have powerful friends.

How histrionic of me.

paulaa

lwellan dowd wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulaa
"Israel wants control of UN reconstruction effort.

Bethlehem – Ma’an – Israel is insisting that any money allocated to Gaza’s reconstruction not go to Hamas or its affiliates, and that the United Nations sends a detailed list of required equipment for approval before it enters the Strip.

According to diplomatic sources working at a Western office in Israel, the Israel is concerned that money may reach Hamas and is insisting on playing a large role and the surveillance of monetary inflow for reconstruction projects.

Israel is also studying the possibility of expanding a list of main materials considered for entering Gaza, demanding that the UN and other relief organizations provide information on anything headed toward Gaza, the same diplomatic sources said.

Israel is insisting that the UN and any other organization first obtain a permit before implementing pledges, as well as assurances that the UN will not participate directly with Hamas in Gaza’s reconstruction."


The arrogance of these people is staggering !!!

WOW Im speechless. (Offy)


Disclaimrer:
Unless you are in the full of your health to not attempt to read this post. Original posters have experienced subsequent loss of speech, imbalance and infectious bouts of melodrama

"Quotes WOW ...STAGGERING........SPEECHLESS"

There should be a health warning on that post. Moderators can you invoke some health and safety guidelines for these virtuous contributors.


Although I have not experienced similar symptoms to Offy and Paulaa, I too share their sense of indignation and outrage.

The arrogance of the Israeli government protecting their women and children, Oaps, schools and hospitals from future horrific attacks. How dare they, deny Hammas access to weaponry, which would be fired exclusively into Israel.

woooo starting to feel woooooooozy.

Now THIS is an example of amateur dramatics lol

youcrazyjesus!

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you've just gone through all the time and effort of a three-week campaign against Hamas, I think it's to be expected that you might want to make sure that they're not going to benefit from the reconstruction. I've little issue with making it a UN reconstruction effort, and not a Hamas one.

NTM

Hamas are the elected give, they will have to be involved at some level. Hamas will obviously benefit from reconstruction,
think about it logically. Hamas will get new infrastructure and tax income and other benefits.

Israel should have no say on anything. They should be facing severe sanctions if there was any justice in the world.

That's not the say the UN shouldn't put a comprehensive auditing system in place to prevent or at least limit
corruption.

Manic Moran

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Hamas are the elected give, they will have to be involved at some level. Hamas will obviously benefit from reconstruction,
think about it logically. Hamas will get new infrastructure and tax income and other benefits.

Yes, but those are secondary effects, not money or assets going straight to Hamas's hands for redistrubiting as Hamas sees fit (Especially not in the same manner as those aid trucks Hamas hijacked during the conflict, which doesn't auger well for peacetime reconstruction). I'm sure the UN will probably ask Hamas what they want to get reconstructed first, but it's presumably not the Palestinian National Authority's money being used for the payment for the reconstruction so I see no reason why the UN, using UN funds, shouldn't be the exclusive handler.

NTM

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

It is understandable, but for the reasons dresden8 gave imo.

I have no problem with Hammas not getting any aid money but I do think it should be administered by a neutral party, certainly not Israel. They are not exactly trustworthy in their agreements.

They are overstepping the mark when they start to insist that the UN must have permits and do as they're told FGS. This kind of arrogance is what will in time destroy them imo. There's a lot of talk about other countries having nuclear capabilities, tbh I worry more about it being in the hands of a warmongering, arrogant regime like Israel.

Also from your link
"Hamas militants on Monday took steps to avoid violating the cease-fire, not firing any rockets into Israel and not attacking the IDF troops still stationed in the Strip. "

Israel has had nuclear capability for 40+ years. have they used it? no.
Did they use it during the Yom Kippur war when being attacked by Egypt, Syria and Iraq? No they did not. If Israel didn't use its nuclear capability during its darkest hour then its completely ridiculous to say that it would use it now.

As to the link your choosing to be selective in what you take from it. On monday the militants stopped firing yes, on tuesday they fired 8 mortar bombs thus a clear breach of the ceasefire.

Serenity Now!

blackgold>> wrote: »

isreal broke it on november 5th and also jan 19 .

In June, Hamas broke the ceasefire they signed up to.
In January of this year, Hamas fired a succession of eight rockets into Israel (as reported by Al-Jazeera too) AFTER announcing a truce. I use the word 'truce' because they (and you) have obviously no idea what the word 'ceasefire' means or what it entails.

This doesn't justify what Israel threw at the Gazans. I'm just correcting an blatant fallacy of what happened whether or not you deliberately pan it as such.

marcsignal

paulaa wrote: »

The arrogance of these people is staggering !!!

dresden8 wrote: »

Hardly. They have the most modern army in the world backed up by nuclear weapons and the support of the most powerful superpower the world has ever seen.

They can, have done, and continue to do anything they want.

Their arrogance is perfectly understandable.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its not arrogance at all, its completely understandable.

I just want to begin here by saying, I have no issue with the existance of the State of Israel, none whatsoever. Israel has every right to co-exist in peace with its neighbours.

However....

The arrogance factor here is an interesting one to consider, and analyse, in terms of its power to act as a motivator, for those on the receiving end of it. Some posters have expressed alarm at the apparent arrogance of the Israelies, and in all fairness, there seems to be ample evidence to suggest it exists. I think it's safe to say, that we've all, at some stage in our lives, been on the receiving end of someone elses arrogance, and I think we can all agree, that it's something that can leave a very pungent, nasty, bitter taste in your mouth. You never forget that person, and for all the wrong reasons.

Years can pass, and yet when later you hear a story, where that person, who has shown you arrogance in the past, has suffered some misfortune, it frequently gives rise to a sence, or feeling, of 'Schadenfreude' in you. A feeling of 'malicious glee', if you will, that your former nemesis has gotten his/her cumuppance in some way, be it humiliation, failure or misfortune in life, business, or whatever.

Over the last 15 years I've been very lucky to be able to talk with/interview many European WW2 survivors of various nationalities, and even some Holocaust survivors. I found one common factor among them startling, and it was that their main motivator to carry on, and resist the Nazis, even under the most appaling conditions, was not the fact that the Nazis had invaded their country, burned their houses, and killed members of their families, although that would be a damn good reason in my book. It was years of being on the receiving end of Nazi German arrogance. This feeling was prevelant even among people like the Czechs, who despite their latent collaboration with their German occupiers, couldn't bare their arrogance.

The Russians are probably the best example. The Nazis had nothing but arrogant contempt for the Russians, they saw them as sub-human. Their POW's were not treated with the same level of respect as other Allied POW's, and were in fact the first victims of gassing in Auschwitz. This served only to harden the resolve of the Russians to fight back, and at the end of the war, at the victory parade in Moscow, the Russians stripped naked many of the most senior Germans they had in their captivity, particularlly SS Officers, put them in cages on the back of trucks, and paraded them around Red Square, for the people to pelt them with rotten fruit, excrement, bricks, and whatever else was handy.

The object of the exercise was not simple revenge, but to subject the Arrogant Nazis to the worst humiliation imaginable, at the hands of people they had regarded as sub-human.

This considered, I believe, that if the Israelies are indulging themselves in similar arrogance towards the Palestinians, they are playing a very dangerous game, and can expect the seeds of that arrogance, to do nothing but grow and fester in the hearts of the Palestinian people.

If this is the case, may God help the Israelies, if their special relationship with the United States should ever falter, or if some other extraneous factor gives the Palestinains the opportunity to repay them for years of oppression, mistreatment and arrogant discrimination. I honestly fear they will share the same fate as the Nazis, and be shown absolutely no mercy.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel has had nuclear capability for 40+ years. have they used it? no.
Did they use it during the Yom Kippur war when being attacked by Egypt, Syria and Iraq? No they did not. If Israel didn't use its nuclear capability during its darkest hour then its completely ridiculous to say that it would use it now.

As to the link your choosing to be selective in what you take from it. On monday the militants stopped firing yes, on tuesday they fired 8 mortar bombs thus a clear breach of the ceasefire.

I would appreciate it if you didn't selectively edit my posts when quoting them.

This is the bit you left out

"As to your link, there have been several reports on TV stations that Israel had already broken it within a few hours of announcing the ceasefire.

On Monday "At the same time, one Palestinian was killed by Israeli warships’ heavy shooting, at Palestinians’ houses, ongoing since the early morning hours, in Al-Atatra area, in Beit Lahia, north of the Strip."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/articl...red_Since.html
This report was also on France24 earlier."

Obviously the Israelis broke the ceasefire on MONDAY since you admit Hammas didn't return fire until TUESDAY. That's not too difficult to understand is it ?

Israel didn't use her nuclear weapons because only the French who were collaborating with them to build the facility in the Nagev desert and supplying her with the components knew about it . The lengths they went to and the excuses they used at the time to conceal this is exactly what Iran has been doing over the last few years.

For anyone who is interested in the history of Israel's nuclear programme
here is a link I found some years ago
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

Serenity Now!

marcsignal wrote: »

The Russians are probably the best example. The Nazis had nothing but arrogant contempt for the Russians, they saw them as sub-human

Yes maybe so but they still invaded Poland together, didn't they?

marcsignal wrote: »

Their POW's were not treated with the same level of respect as other Allied POW's, and were in fact the first victims of gassing in Auschwitz. This served only to harden the resolve of the Russians to fight back, and at the end of the war, at the victory parade in Moscow, the Russians stripped naked many of the most senior Germans they had in their captivity, particularlly SS Officers, put them in cages on the back of trucks, and paraded them around Red Square, for the people to pelt them with rotten fruit, excrement, bricks, and whatever else was handy

The largest concentration camp system was the USSR's. The most Soviets killed were killed outside the battlefield were killed by the USSR. The first gassing of anybody was their euthanasia project on ridding their Reich of mentally ill patients.
The first mass gassing by the Nazis took place at Chelmno in Poland. Auschwitz-Birkenau was not completed
Soviet (not Russian) prisoners were AMONGST the first people gassed at Auschwitz-Birkenau with Zyklon B two years later. Jews, Roma and Polish political prisoners were also to perish in the very same first tests of Zyklon B at Auschwitz.

marcsignal wrote: »

If this is the case, may God help the Israelies, if their special relationship with the United States should ever falter, or if some other extraneous factor gives the Palestinains the opportunity to repay them for years of oppression, mistreatment and arrogant discrimination. I honestly fear they will share the same fate as the Nazis, and be shown absolutely no mercy.

They have been shown very little mercy from day one. This is what has contributed to shaping the Israeli defensive psyche in the first place. Or do the wars in each decade against them really tend to be that easily forgotten?

Serenity Now!

paulaa wrote: »

I would appreciate it if you didn't selectively edit my posts when quoting them.

This is the bit you left out

"As to your link, there have been several reports on TV stations that Israel had already broken it within a few hours of announcing the ceasefire.

On Monday "At the same time, one Palestinian was killed by Israeli warships’ heavy shooting, at Palestinians’ houses, ongoing since the early morning hours, in Al-Atatra area, in Beit Lahia, north of the Strip."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/articl...red_Since.html
This report was also on France24 earlier."

Obviously the Israelis broke the ceasefire on MONDAY since you admit Hammas didn't return fire until TUESDAY. That's not too difficult to understand is it ?

If it were true :rolleyes:

Hamas fired three rockets into Sderot after their alleged ceasefire and five subsequent rockets afterwards during the day.
As reported on Al-Jaz TV.

marcsignal

I just want to address these points Serenity Now! but don't want to drag the thread off topic.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Yes maybe so but they still invaded Poland together, didn't they?

That's true, but the Non Agression Pact between Hitler and Stalin was an elaborate smokescreen, by the Nazis, to confuse the British and to a lesser degree, the Americans. It as always Hitlers intention to go East.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

The largest concentration camp system was the USSR's. The most Soviets killed were killed outside the battlefield were killed by the USSR.

yeah that's correct

Serenity Now! wrote: »

The first gassing of anybody was their euthanasia project on ridding their Reich of mentally ill patients.
The first mass gassing by the Nazis took place at Chelmno in Poland. Auschwitz-Birkenau was not completed

also correct, but I was referring to first gassings @ Auschwitz specifically.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Soviet (not Russian) prisoners were AMONGST the first people gassed at Auschwitz-Birkenau with Zyklon B two years later. Jews, Roma and Polish political prisoners were also to perish in the very same first tests of Zyklon B at Auschwitz.

I'll have to slightly contradict you there.

The first gassing in Auschwitz took place in the cellars of Block 11 at the end of August 1941, conducted by SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch, who used Zyklon B gas to kill Soviet prisoners of war. Following this, 600 Soviet POWs and 250 Polish prisoners were gassed on 3 September 1941, in the cellars of Block 11.

Source See section under 'Gas Chambers'

Serenity Now! wrote: »

They have been shown very little mercy from day one. This is what has contributed to shaping the Israeli defensive psyche in the first place. Or do the wars in each decade against them really tend to be that easily forgotten?

That's a point, but my main point was, that indulging in arrogant contempt by a victor on the conquered, only sows the seeds of violent resistance.

paulaa

marcsignal wrote: »

I just want to begin here by saying, I have no issue with the existance of the State of Israel, none whatsoever. Israel has every right to co-exist in peace with its neighbours.

However....

The arrogance factor here is an interesting one to consider, and analyse, in terms of its power to act as a motivator, for those on the receiving end of it. Some posters have expressed alarm at the apparent arrogance of the Israelies, and in all fairness, there seems to be ample evidence to suggest it exists. I think it's safe to say, that we've all, at some stage in our lives, been on the receiving end of someone elses arrogance, and I think we can all agree, that it's something that can leave a very pungent, nasty, bitter taste in your mouth. You never forget that person, and for all the wrong reasons.

Years can pass, and yet when later you hear a story, where that person, who has shown you arrogance in the past, has suffered some misfortune, it frequently gives rise to a sence, or feeling, of 'Schadenfreude' in you. A feeling of 'malicious glee', if you will, that your former nemesis has gotten his/her cumuppance in some way, be it humiliation, failure or misfortune in life, business, or whatever.

Over the last 15 years I've been very lucky to be able to talk with/interview many European WW2 survivors of various nationalities, and even some Holocaust survivors. I found one common factor among them startling, and it was that their main motivator to carry on, and resist the Nazis, even under the most appaling conditions, was not the fact that the Nazis had invaded their country, burned their houses, and killed members of their families, although that would be a damn good reason in my book. It was years of being on the receiving end of Nazi German arrogance. This feeling was prevelant even among people like the Czechs, who despite their latent collaboration with their German occupiers, couldn't bare their arrogance.

The Russians are probably the best example. The Nazis had nothing but arrogant contempt for the Russians, they saw them as sub-human. Their POW's were not treated with the same level of respect as other Allied POW's, and were in fact the first victims of gassing in Auschwitz. This served only to harden the resolve of the Russians to fight back, and at the end of the war, at the victory parade in Moscow, the Russians stripped naked many of the most senior Germans they had in their captivity, particularlly SS Officers, put them in cages on the back of trucks, and paraded them around Red Square, for the people to pelt them with rotten fruit, excrement, bricks, and whatever else was handy.

The object of the exercise was not simple revenge, but to subject the Arrogant Nazis to the worst humiliation imaginable, at the hands of people they had regarded as sub-human.

This considered, I believe, that if the Israelies are indulging themselves in similar arrogance towards the Palestinians, they are playing a very dangerous game, and can expect the seeds of that arrogance, to do nothing but grow and fester in the hearts of the Palestinian people.

If this is the case, may God help the Israelies, if their special relationship with the United States should ever falter, or if some other extraneous factor gives the Palestinains the opportunity to repay them for years of oppression, mistreatment and arrogant discrimination. I honestly fear they will share the same fate as the Nazis, and be shown absolutely no mercy.

Great post marcsignal. That is my take on it too but you explained it so much better.

The problem is it's not just the Palestinians they have treated badly and even their bought "friends" in the area are only on their side until the bribes dry up.

An example. Egypt's Hosni Mubarak is 80 years of age and while he has designated his son , Kamal, to be the next dictator, the Muslim Brotherhood, who have a very strong and growing presence in Egypt, have other ideas. They are not interested in the US or Israel's money. Up until now they have contented themselves with street demonstrations and tormenting the Coptic Christians but that will change imo.

Also on a more practical level, the Arab population growth is far ahead of the Israelis in the region. Immigration to Israel has slowed despite the enticements offered by the government to settle in Israel, so if this continues the Israel will become a stagnant, aging society which may or may not be protected by the US.
As you say, may God help the Israelis

g5fd6ow0hseima

I think Israels defensive psyche has well and truly overcome the nation. It's engulfed in the whole conflict to the point where Israeli society is at a very unhealthy level.

paulaa

Serenity Now! wrote: »

If it were true :rolleyes:

Hamas fired three rockets into Sderot after their alleged ceasefire and five subsequent rockets afterwards during the day.
As reported on Al-Jaz TV.

After a Israeli helicopter gunship was firing missiles into Rafah.(also on Al Jazeera)
This could go on forever so we'll have to agree to disagree

marcsignal

Darrell Grumpy Urination wrote: »

I think Israels defensive psyche has well and truly overcome the nation. It's engulfed in the whole conflict to the point where Israeli society is at a very unhealthy level.

+1

I have to agree, It's sad, but Israel seems to have turned into a lunatic state that is drunk with ideology and power.

Serenity Now!

marcsignal wrote: »

I have to agree, It's sad, but Israel seems to have turned into a lunatic state that is drunk with ideology and power.

You've obviously never been there so. 'Lunatic'?? :rolleyes:
It is a highly divided country whose population comprises of many nationalities as naturalised Israelis, fifth generation settlers, secular moderates, hardline religious, arab minorities etc.

Given the behaviour of its neighbours over time, a highly cautious and on tenterhooks attitude has been justified but on other occasions abused.

marcsignal

Serenity Now! wrote: »

You've obviously never been there so. 'Lunatic'?? :rolleyes:

No I've never been to Israel, and I'm sure, in many respects it's a nice country, but you've overlooked the fact that I only said 'seems' as opposed to 'has' turned into a lunatic state, drunk with power, and in that respect I can only make an observation, and give an opinion, as opposed to stating what I may or may not believe to be a fact.

Having said that, I'm often surprised at the amount of Jewish Settlers that have American accents.
Why anyone would leave their condo in Laguna Beach in California, to go live in Israel instead is really a mystery to me, to be honest. Something must make them do it, might it be a warped sense of Ideology ?
Or misinformation on the part of the Jewish lobby in the U.S. ??

Nodin

marcsignal wrote: »

Having said that, I'm often surprised at the amount of Jewish Settlers that have American accents. Why anyone would leave their condo in Laguna Beach in California to go live in Israel instead is really a mystery to me to be honest. Something must make them do it, might it be a warped sense of Ideology ? Or misinformation on the part of the Jewish lobby in the U.S. ??

A lot are the Jewish equivalent to Islamic Jihadis. Not as much of a sweeping agenda, but fanatical, and often 'born again' types. That being said, settlements vary in character - some have that type, others a bit more secular but hardline....Theres also tax breaks offered for living there, afaik, to encourage people to move there.

marcsignal

Nodin wrote: »

Theres also tax breaks offered for living there, afaik, to encourage people to move there.

Jeez ! that'd wanna be some tax break

paulaa

An example of how some "settlers" get their land and the complicity of the authorities

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/18/world/fg-outpost18

How some "settlers" treat their neighbours
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2791022

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

I would appreciate it if you didn't selectively edit my posts when quoting them.

This is the bit you left out

"As to your link, there have been several reports on TV stations that Israel had already broken it within a few hours of announcing the ceasefire.

On Monday "At the same time, one Palestinian was killed by Israeli warships’ heavy shooting, at Palestinians’ houses, ongoing since the early morning hours, in Al-Atatra area, in Beit Lahia, north of the Strip."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/articl...red_Since.html
This report was also on France24 earlier."

Obviously the Israelis broke the ceasefire on MONDAY since you admit Hammas didn't return fire until TUESDAY. That's not too difficult to understand is it ?

Israel didn't use her nuclear weapons because only the French who were collaborating with them to build the facility in the Nagev desert and supplying her with the components knew about it . The lengths they went to and the excuses they used at the time to conceal this is exactly what Iran has been doing over the last few years.

For anyone who is interested in the history of Israel's nuclear programme
here is a link I found some years ago
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

I edited the wrong part of your post by mistake and then it was either restart my post or just go with it. It wasn't with the intent of changing the nature of your post.

If you check any news from monday you'll see that palestinians fired rockets at israel on monday and Israel bombed the launch site. then hamas declared their ceasefire pretty promptly afterwards. That was the sequence of events.

Then as my link says, Palestinians broke the truce afterwards.

If you did some research on the yom kippur war you'll fnd that Golda Meir mandated that nuclear weapons would only be sanctioned if Israel was on the brink of defeat.

BlaasForRafa

Nodin wrote: »

A lot are the Jewish equivalent to Islamic Jihadis. Not as much of a sweeping agenda, but fanatical, and often 'born again' types. That being said, settlements vary in character - some have that type, others a bit more secular but hardline....Theres also tax breaks offered for living there, afaik, to encourage people to move there.

A lot of the settlement was promoted by the Likud party and the extreme religious parties and mostly opposed by the labour party but there are pro and anti in both left and right. Some zionists see the west bank as part of their biblical heritage while some would rather do without the hassle and the economic drain of having the settlements.

I think most israelis would see a withdrawal from the settlements as sensible. The idf forcibly removed settlers from the sinai after the egyptian peace agreement and of course removed settlers from gaza a few years ago.