Shay Given?

SantryRed

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What is talking going to do in all honesty?

"Oy Taylor stop being so sh*t."

''Step up''
''Keep the line''
''Taylor push up''

And the likes. Just to put a bit of stability in it. He's one of the best shot stoppers in the world. But overall game he hasn't a patch on Buffon.

Mr.Nice Guy

SantryRed wrote: »

''Step up''
''Keep the line''
''Taylor push up''

And the likes. Just to put a bit of stability in it.

To look good for the cameras more like.

Frankly if the defenders aren't able to organise themselves and do their jobs then they haven't a hope. It's not Given's responsibility as far as I'm concerned.

I'd like to see Buffon, Casillas et. al do well with the crap Given has to work with. It's easier to look good in front of "star" names.

I wouldn't swap Given for any other keeper. Irish fans have short memories it seems. If it wasn't for him our piss-poor recent camapigns would have been downright embarrassing.

Bubs101

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

.

I'd like to see Buffon, Casillas et. al do well with the crap Given has to work with. It's easier to look good in front of "star" names.

.

Juve's back 4/5 for the 2007/2008 season.

Grygera/Zebina

---

Chiellini

---

Legrotaglie

---

Molinaro

Chiellini's the only decent player among them and he didn't even play well enough to earn a starting place in Euro 2008 for Italy before the defeat to Holland. You could easily make the argument that Newcastle's defence was better than that. Keep in mind that Juve were the team that actually bought Boumsong

Vince135792003

Comparing goal keepers in different leagues particularly the Italian and English one is a very imperfect science.

By going to ESPN.com and looking at the average goals scored per match per season for a variety of teams in both leagues highlights the emphasis and contrasting styles of both leagues.

dreamers75

mike65 wrote: »

Given is either happy and settled and does not want to move his family about which would be fair enough or he is the comfort zone at a club where he is the hero more often than not.

pretty much that.


if he wanted trophies and crap he would have stayed at celtic and had a cabinet full of meaningless ones.

M5

you, given should talk as much as reina! We'd be grand then..... Oh wait, spanish keeper telling his miltinational defense to push up/keep tight/whatever, such a load of absolute rubbish! Also comparing him to a 2 keepers that 99% of the board wont have seen more than 5 times in the last year! Comparing on reputation alone, IMO we are talking about 4/5 keepers who are much of a muchness

vestanpance

I think he's a class keeper and for those who have a probem with his height he's the same height as Casillas.

Mr.Nice Guy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Juve's back 4/5 for the 2007/2008 season.

Grygera/Zebina

---

Chiellini

---

Legrotaglie

---

Molinaro

Chiellini's the only decent player among them and he didn't even play well enough to earn a starting place in Euro 2008 for Italy before the defeat to Holland. You could easily make the argument that Newcastle's defence was better than that. Keep in mind that Juve were the team that actually bought Boumsong

I think we can all agree Juve never had a Kamikaze player like Bramble to put up with as poor Shay had to endure for several seasons, including one occasion when he had to head away a spectacular own goal effort from him.

Frankly the guy has worked miracles behind a defence that has been consistently atrocious for years.

Bubs101

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think we can all agree Juve never had a Kamikaze player like Bramble to put up with as poor Shay had to endure for several seasons, including one occasion when he had to head away a spectacular own goal effort from him.

Frankly the guy has worked miracles behind a defence that has been consistently atrocious for years.

It still doesn't mean that Juve's defence was any good last year and yet you'd never see Gigi concede 5 goals against a team which previously had such a tame goal scoring record this season

As a Juve fan I would happily take Bramble over Molinaro and bum Chiellini out to the left. As for Kamikaze defenders, Shay has got it easy. Zebina slapped a cameraman and got himself sent off last season

scruff321

Bubs101 wrote: »

It still doesn't mean that Juve's defence was any good last year and yet you'd never see Gigi concede 5 goals against a team which previously had such a tame goal scoring record this season

As a Juve fan I would happily take Bramble over Molinaro and bum Chiellini out to the left. As for Kamikaze defenders, Shay has got it easy. Zebina slapped a cameraman and got himself sent off last season

thats a load of crap,were you actually watching the game today?? Given kept the score down by preventing atleast another 5 goals and is one of the most consistant performers in the premiership, Newcastle defense is like a poison chalis,constantly defenders good or bad before they come to the club end up leaving more often then not with the reputation in tatters theres a reason Newcastle have had Given as no1 choice keeper for over 10years because hes class were as the muck defenders have been coming and going throughout the years.

SantryRed

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

To look good for the cameras more like.

Frankly if the defenders aren't able to organise themselves and do their jobs then they haven't a hope. It's not Given's responsibility as far as I'm concerned.

What

He's the last line of defence! It is his job to stop the ball going into the ball yes, but he has to organise it. He can see the whole pitch, he's the only player who can do that.

Bubs101

scruff321 wrote: »

thats a load of crap,were you actually watching the game today?? Given kept the score down by preventing atleast another 5 goals and is one of the most consistant performers in the premiership, Newcastle defense is like a poison chalis,constantly defenders good or bad before they come to the club end up leaving more often then not with the reputation in tatters theres a reason Newcastle have had Given as no1 choice keeper for over 10years because hes class were as the muck defenders have been coming and going throughout the years.

This has nothing to do with the quoted post about Juve but do you not think that it's a bit rich to think that Newcastle have always bleeded goals since Shay got there being the only constant element in Newcastle's crapness at the back and never having moved to a big club yet he's one of the most consistent performers ever? The only thing consistent about Shay is that he'll make a spectacular save or two and concede a goal or two a game

Smegball

I think Jussi Jaaskelenin (sp?) is just as good as Shay, top top keeper just makes the odd mistake, like Shay... both class keepers but there is obviously a reason none of the big clubs have taken a chance on them.

Hank Scorpio

shay is very good

i think reliable is the key word with him , is he better than buffon , i question no.

however he is too good for newcastle

from a irish perspective, i look at given, dunne, keane , duff and i hope one day stephen ireland

Idu

Given is a great shot stopper but he doesnt dominate his penalty box enough or marshall his defence the way a top goalkeeper does.

He's a long way off Casillas and Buffon who are currently way ahead of the rest and who are match winners in their own right. Cech was up there but seems to have lost some of his steel since the incident.

Given is a highlight mans dream as a goalie but over the 90 minutes he doesnt do enough for me in terms of the finer aspects of the game, the stuff that doesnt attract as much focus.

I personally am not suprised that he's never played for one of the so called big four teams, has there even been anything more than a bit of tabloid whispers. Dont remember ever hearing a story with any substance to it surface

leninbenjamin

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

taught i read some-where he was 5ft 10

for some bizarre reason 5'10 seems to follow him everywhere... I think some lazy statistician somewhere just plucked that figure out of the air and it's followed him ever since. I wonder would it have been Ferguson actually...

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

but 6ft 1 is still probly too small

Lack of height isn't a problem for him, very few keepers with the ability to leap about the place like Given has.

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

he isnt top3 in the world though! thats 1/2: Casillas and Buffon 3: Cech

Given would be near the middle of the next group of keepers that has people like Reina in it. Still world class though

I'm not sure. Tbh i think all those keepers just have different strengths and weaknesses. Personally, i don't think ANY keeper in the world has the reactions of Given. He's definitely the quickest down to make a save of anyone i've ever seen, Buffon and Casillas included. But i think Buffon in particular has a much greater presence, and Casillas is a better decision maker... at the top level i don't think there is any one standout keeper, i think you get the keeper that suits your team.

lol at Cech being included there though, two seasons ago maybe, but he's not a patch on the rest of them these days, pity as it is.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Reina is better than them all, so it doesnt matter.

lol

vote4pedro wrote: »

There's a reason no top side has ever made a move for him.

who says a top side has never made a move for him? by all accounts he's never been short of offers to move for the past few seasons, even SAF is supposed to have reneged on his previous line and made an enquiry or two...

scruff321

Bubs101 wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the quoted post about Juve but do you not think that it's a bit rich to think that Newcastle have always bleeded goals since Shay got there being the only constant element in Newcastle's crapness at the back and never having moved to a big club yet he's one of the most consistent performers ever? The only thing consistent about Shay is that he'll make a spectacular save or two and concede a goal or two a game

seriously do you watch Newcastle at all?do you even watch Ireland play?? i think saying Shay Given is the root cause of Newcastle's poor defending is laughable! For the most part they have been crap all over the park for the last number of years(EXCEPT in goal) with maybe a good striker up front so i dont think your logic makes any sense.

eirebhoy

British Times player ratings from yesterday:

Shay Given 9/10

To put Liverpool’s dominance in perspective – in the first half they had almost 70 per cent of the possession – Shay Given, Newcastle’s long-serving, long-suffering goalkeeper, rivalled Gerrard when it came to nominating the man of the match.

Alone among his teammates, the Irishman was free of culpability, making a string of fine saves.

Given performed until the end, repelling a firm header from Lucas Leiva in the 89th minute, and the caution he earned for hoofing the ball away in protest at the award of a corner spoke of the frustration that must have burrowed into his soul.

His actions speak volumes and a new rash of uncertainty is again engulfing the player, who has been linked with a move to Arsenal, while Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur have also shown interest.

Every manager he plays under seems to rate him as probably the best keeper they've worked with.

Kinnear:
"Without Shay Given it would have been even worse. The only positive from the game is that he has proven he is the best goalkeeper in the league by a mile."

Gerrard:
"Newcastle have a world-class keeper. He made some fantastic stops. Credit to Shay."


Have a look at these saves:
http://rapidshare.com/files/177534346/Given_Skill.avi

The last save in the video is incredible.

Xavi6

We're after him now -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/mancity/4014364/Manchester-City-join-the-race-for-Shay-Given.html

Manchester City join the race for Shay Given

Manchester City are reported to have joined Arsenal and Tottenham in the race to poach goalkeeper Shay Given away from Newcastle United.

Given is the third goalkeeper to be linked with a move to the Eastlands club after nothing came from reported interest in Juventus' Gianluigi Buffon and Villareal's Diego Lopez.

Described by Steven Gerrard as "world-class" over the weekend, despite letting five goals in against Liverpool, the Independent reports that Given is now the No 1 goalkeeping target on Mark Hughes' list.

Joe Hart is currently first choice at City, but at only 21-years-old his relative inexperience counts against him. And with City struggling to claw themselves out of the bottom half of the table, this may well be what Hughes is anticipating will help in January.

Given certainly comes with experience. The 32-year-old made his 459th appearance for Newcastle over the weekend, having been with the club since 1997.

The third most capped player in the club's history, Given is believed to have become disillusioned in light of the developments since Kevin Keegan's departure.

Hughes would be expected to pay as much as £5 million for Given, which, to a club like Manchester City, would be a drop in the ocean.

Given aside, Hughes is believed to have made a joint offer of £15m to land West Ham duo Craig Bellamy and Scott Parker.

The City manager has also been linked with a host of top players - Blackburn’s Roque Santa Cruz and Stephen Warnock remain potential arrivals.

Not surprised. He'd be a perfect mentor for Hart.

Mr.Nice Guy

Bubs101 wrote: »

It still doesn't mean that Juve's defence was any good last year and yet you'd never see Gigi concede 5 goals against a team which previously had such a tame goal scoring record this season.

As a Juve fan I would happily take Bramble over Molinaro and bum Chiellini out to the left. As for Kamikaze defenders, Shay has got it easy. Zebina slapped a cameraman and got himself sent off last season

5 goals was a bonus for Newcastle. I honestly don't think Casillas, Buffon, Cech et. al would have made the scoreline any more respectable.

SantryRed wrote:

What

He's the last line of defence! It is his job to stop the ball going into the ball yes, but he has to organise it. He can see the whole pitch, he's the only player who can do that.

I say it's the coach's job to organise the defence. When Liverpool concede a sloppy goal I don't think it's Reina that gets the flak? The keeper's the last line of defence, but that doesn't make him culpable as the defenders are for errors. If they can't get the basics right then they are to blame.

I would be amazed if any former or current Newcastle player criticised Shay Given in any capacity.

SantryRed

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I say it's the coach's job to organise the defence. When Liverpool concede a sloppy goal I don't think it's Reina that gets the flak? The keeper's the last line of defence, but that doesn't make him culpable as the defenders are for errors. If they can't get the basics right then they are to blame.

No, when defenders make errors its not his fault. But when they're caught out of position, it's partly his fault.

Have you ever played football yourself before?

Corben Dallas

Given is top class, maybe just under world class Cech etc. He really should leave Newcastle. Can anyone remember when Newcastle had even 2 top notch Central Backs? .........that will take some time.

He will never shine/be regarded as world class playing at a club not known for attaching importance to a rock solid defence.

He should try to make a move to a top 4/5 club to prove to everyone he is world class, he hasnt so far....because hes playing for NewC.

I'd love to see him go to Aresnal, hes much much better than Alumina. He should only go to ManC if they get another quality world class defender to play alongside Dunne. ManC are a big club but not a top 4 club ...yet. If he did go he would have one advantage he would be going form one mad club to another.(They seem to run by esapced Mental patients sometimes):pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

SantryRed wrote: »

No, when defenders make errors its not his fault. But when they're caught out of position, it's partly his fault.

So to review when THEY are caught out of position it's HIS fault?

In your mind, maybe.

SantryRed wrote:

Have you ever played football yourself before?

Yes, and whenever I was at fault positionally I didn't turn around and blame it on the goalkeeper. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

redout

leninbenjamin wrote: »

and Casillas is a better decision maker... to have reneged on his previous line and made an enquiry or two...

LOL

Do you watch la liga ? I do every week. This season he has been unrecognisable. EL Clasico he was back on form (one game) very next game at Valencia he was making errors again and all season up to the Barca game. It is more than a bad patch when it lasts this amount of time. We are talking months here not 2-3 games.

Bubs101

eirebhoy wrote: »

Every manager he plays under seems to rate him as probably the best keeper they've worked with.

Trappatoni alone has worked with four (probably more) undoubtably better keepers than Given in Zoff, Zenga, Peruzzi and Buffon. He's lying

Headshot

looks like he could be going

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7805887.stm

Goalkeeper Shay Given could be set to leave Newcastle United after saying he is disillusioned with the club's situation both on and off the pitch.

Given said he had reached the "lowest point of his football career" after last week's 5-1 defeat by Liverpool.

The 32-year-old has been linked with Arsenal, Tottenham and Manchester City.

"All that he can see ahead with the turmoil on and off the pitch is a battle for survival," Given's lawyer Michael Kennedy said in a statement.

Newcastle manager Joe Kinnear had insisted Given, who signed a five-year deal in 2006, would not be leaving St James' Park during January's transfer window.

But the club could now be forced to listen to offers of about £8m for the keeper whom Kinnear believes is the best in the Premier League.

"Shay is very despondent following the very poor performance of the team against Liverpool last weekend," read Kennedy's statement. It was the lowest point of his football career and a performance that he would not wish to be repeated.

"Having served the club loyally for over 11 years, Shay feels compelled to consider his position in the light of the interest being expressed in him by Manchester City, Arsenal and Tottenham."

Given has made 459 appearances for the Magpies since joining from Blackburn for £1.5m in 1997.

Newcastle have some strength in the goalkeeping position, with Given's long-term deputy Steve Harper currently in discussions over a new contract.

However, Kinnear is determined to hold on to his best players, including England striker Michael Owen whose contract expires in the summer, as he attempts to steer the club away from the bottom half of the table.

The club's off-field dramas took another twist this week when owner Mike Ashley took the club off the market after failing to attract a buyer.

mike65

Will be going I reckon!

dsmythy

mike65 wrote: »

Will be going I reckon!

Well if that press release doesn't cause a couple of bids to be made then i don't know what will.

Tom65

Big Joe says No

ewcastle manager Joe Kinnear says Shay Given will not be leaving St James' Park despite the goalkeeper saying he is disillusioned with life at the club.

Given's lawyer Michael Kennedy said in a statement that the 32-year-old was considering his future after last week's 5-1 defeat by Liverpool.

The Irishman also said he had reached the "lowest point of his career".

"He is our player and he is going to stay our player, it's as simple as that," said Kinnear.

"I'm not sure of the facts that he (Kennedy) has said that or how it's been interpreted, but what I will say is Shay is contracted until 2011.

"We are not interested at all in selling him. I want to clear that - that is probably the last time I will be talking about it.

"He is an integral part of the team, he is the best goalkeeper by miles in the league, so why should we jeopardise our chances in the position we are in?"

He's been a great servant for the club, having stuck by them for 11 years. I know he's under contract, but at this stage they should really allow him leave.

Average-Ro

Or that could just be Kinnear's way of making sure he'll get a good bit of cash for him.

therecklessone

Jaysus, Joe's only in a job cos the previous incumbent wouldn't put up with interference from Ashley and Wise, you'd think he'd have got the message by now that the price is right he won't really get the chance to say no, wouldn't you?

I can only see him going to Citeh, I'd be surprised if Wenger bought a keeper and the alleged Spurs interest is lazy journalism assuming that Redknapp wants rid of Gomes based on his errors during 'Arry's early reign. We have far greater weaknesses need addressing. IMHO of course.

mike65

Listening to JFK, it sounds like Givens solicitor was being a bit 'previous'.

redout

He is definitly looking to move after having the solicitor release that statement. How many players do that and are not looking to move ? He is on his way 100%.

Green Hornet

He's gotta be careful if he does move though.

I doubt he'll go to Arsenal because he wont be guaranteed first team football as Almunia is acting captain and Wenger wont drop him. Wenger said he's not interested in signing a goalkeeper today anyway.

Moves to City or Spurs are only sideways moves so what's to be gained there? Possibly more potential at City as the defence generally is quite good (well, used to be until recent months) and plenty of money available for future building.

shane86

Think I will put a few quid on city or Arsenal. If he decides on city it will be last minute after seeing who else they can bring in before the window closes.

Man U have been caught sleeping here. VDS cant have too long left, and they are ignoring the chance to bag the best keeper in the EPL when two of their 3 main rivals are safe for keepers and therefore not interested (Pool and Chelsea). Poor business on their part.

SantryRed

shane86 wrote: »

Man U have been caught sleeping here. VDS cant have too long left, and they are ignoring the chance to bag the best keeper in the EPL when two of their 3 main rivals are safe for keepers and therefore not interested (Pool and Chelsea). Poor business on their part.

Eh. They do have Foster. Kusckak(however you spell it) too.

Mr Alan

Foster, not living up to potential & permanently injured. Other lad, not good enough to be Utds number 1.

Given is better than VDS & still has 3 years left at his best. Utd would be mad to not try & get him imo.

BArra

given should go somewhere and get silverwear, he served newcastle well over the years, nobody could begrudge him

Charlie

The biggest thing that this statement indictaes to me is that senior players are still deeply suspicous of the direction of the club, and that some certainly aren't buying the happy families routine JFK and Fat Ash are trying to put on. When Keegan was here, Given used to talk about how great it was to play for the club, and the impact KK has on the club. Given was also one of the few to give an interview right after KK was pushed, and he certainly seemed to be gutted about it.

I really do fear that Shay could be the first of many.

therecklessone wrote: »

Jaysus, Joe's only in a job cos the previous incumbent wouldn't put up with interference from Ashley and Wise, you'd think he'd have got the message by now that the price is right he won't really get the chance to say no, wouldn't you?

Joe says what he wants. I haven't taken him seriously he started telling porkies like Ashley would be welcome in the stands again, that KK was immanently returning, that the club was under due diligence and about to be sold.

Seriously, the man tells the tructh about 25% of the time.

redout wrote: »

He is definitly looking to move after having the solicitor release that statement. How many players do that and are not looking to move ? He is on his way 100%.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that a solicitor released the statement. That solicitor is in fact Given's agent, as he is for a number of the Irish mob (Dunne, Roy Keane, Quinn). It's no different really to any other release of that nature by any other agent.

Pigman II

vestanpance wrote: »

I think he's a class keeper and for those who have a probem with his height he's the same height as Casillas.

Given has no problem with his height. His short stature means he doesn't have to bend down as far to pick the ball out of the net for goal after goal that he's let in for Ireland or Newcastle down the years. Considering the amount he lets in that is a decided advantage.

He's a great as a shot-stopper or in an one-on-one situation which leads to this myth that he is world-class but I don't think he's commanding enough or good enough with long range shots. Don't see him being good enough to be a solid top4 club keeper but could prob see him at Tottenham maybe.

Charlie

Pigman II wrote: »

Don't see him being good enough to be a solid top4 club keeper but could defo see him at Tottenham maybe.

And VDS, Almunia, and a nervous Cech are?

Pigman II

charlie mchugh wrote: »

And VDS, Almunia, and a nervous Cech are?

They play under a different set of rules. Every mistake they make is disected and scrutinised to the point where it makes them look ridiculous and inadequate as keepers.

Shay is in a grand position where he can let in 4 or 5 every game and no one will blame him cos he makes a few saves at a club that hasn't a clue and that nobody cares about. It'd be intesting at least to know how intact his reputation was if he had to play under the same conditions as those other 3.

Headshot

charlie mchugh wrote: »

And VDS, Almunia, and a nervous Cech are?

good point

VDS first season at united was brilliant but he's gone down hill alot

Shay Given is good enough to be in a top 4 team

i wouldnt mind him at united especially with the stories going around about Foster being unhappy at the club

he's better than VDS thats for sure

Bounty Hunter

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Seriously, the man tells the tructh about 25% of the time.

personally id say its that he knows the truth about 25% of the time but is the type who always answers a question that he is asked a la Roy Keane and with people like that it often comes off as they are talking about stuff they should keep outta or just talking nonsense. id say that if he says the club will be sold very soon its cos Ashley said that to him for example. All the blame goes to Ashleys door for me looking from the outside and Shay dispute genuinly loving the club (he spent what 11 yrs there) really doesent see Newcastle challenging for anything again during the time hes got left in his career. Instead of to City where the next 5yrs will bring him a hell of a lot of money and atleast a chance to compete for trophies/success be it the uefa cup this year, CL qualification next year, a league challenge the following year etc

Green Hornet

Pigman II wrote: »

They play under a different set of rules. Every mistake they make is disected and scrutinised to the point where it makes them look ridiculous and inadequate as keepers.

Shay is in a grand position where he can let in 4 or 5 every game and no one will blame him cos he makes a few saves at a club that hasn't a clue and that nobody cares about. It'd be intesting at least to know how intact his reputation was if he had to play under the same conditions as those other 3.

Well said. I'm willing to bet that if Almunia, Cech or VDS were in the Newcastle team they would be held in the same esteem as Given. As you say though, each and every goal they concede for their clubs is analysed to death.

redout

At United for example he would not need to command the defence as VDS, Barthez certainly dont and did not. Schmeichel was the last keeper we had that done that. The defence is commanded by Ferdinand and Vidic. That point has no real bearing on United imo.

Charlie

Pigman II wrote: »

They play under a different set of rules. Every mistake they make is disected and scrutinised to the point where it makes them look ridiculous and inadequate as keepers.

Shay is in a grand position where he can let in 4 or 5 every game and no one will blame him cos he makes a few saves at a club that hasn't a clue and that nobody cares about. It'd be intesting at least to know how intact his reputation was if he had to play under the same conditions as those other 3.

As they'd say down the Toon, howay man!

Are you seriously telling me that VDS and Almunia are better keepers presently then Given, and that the perception that Given is better than them two is merely down to the fact that he isn't under the Big 4 spotlight???

Over the last 8 yrs, Shay has proved, in both the Black & White and the Green, that he is in that top tier of goalkeepers. I wouldn't put VDS of Almunia in that bracket.

Boggles

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

good point

VDS first season at united was brilliant but he's gone down hill alot

Shay Given is good enough to be in a top 4 team

i wouldnt mind him at united especially with the stories going around about Foster being unhappy at the club

he's better than VDS thats for sure

charlie mchugh wrote: »

As they'd say down the Toon, howay man!

Are you seriously telling me that VDS and Almunia are better keepers presently then Given, and that the perception that Given is better than them two is merely down to the fact that he isn't under the Big 4 spotlight???

Over the last 8 yrs, Shay has proved, in both the Black & White and the Green, that he is in that top tier of goalkeepers. I wouldn't put VDS of Almunia in that bracket.

I'm not doubting Given is a excellent keeper, it may sound strange but the drunken defense that plays in front of him most weeks give him the opportunity to be brilliant simply because of the amount of work he has to do.

The secret to an excellent keeper is if he does nothing for 90 and can pull off just the one brilliant save.

I'm not saying Given can't do this, but comparing him to a keeper who has been a big part of a defense that has won 3 big competition in 2 years and saying he could easily replace him is very very hard to tell and very unfair to VDS.

Pigman II

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me that VDS and Almunia are better keepers presently then Given, and that the perception that Given is better than them two is merely down to the fact that he isn't under the Big 4 spotlight???

I'm not telling you. The top 4 are telling you. If he was top 4 all this time then one of the clubs would have made a serious attempt to land him in the last 8 years. Or are you seriously saying he doesn't want (a) trophies and/or (b) money cos if he really doesn't want either (as is the popular myth) then he really shouldn't be playing professional football.

Over the last 8 yrs, Shay has proved, in both the Black & White and the Green, that he is in that top tier of goalkeepers. I wouldn't put VDS of Almunia in that bracket.

When did he prove it in the green? A meaningless game against Cyprus 4 years ago? Last month against Poland perhaps? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Given is a donkey. He's just not this world class talent that I tire of reading about every single time his name is mentioned on this biased message board.

Boggles

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Over the last 8 yrs, Shay has proved, in both the Black & White and the Green, that he is in that top tier of goalkeepers. I wouldn't put VDS of Almunia in that bracket.

To be honest Shay has proved fúck all compared to VDS.

I would like to see him at United thou, I think he is a great fella.