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750i Sport or 535d
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I considered the W12 Petrol Phaeton, but at 60% less MPG (talking like 15 at best), it would become an extravagant weekend toy and require a permanent spot at the Petrol Station. I also prefer the "bang" the V10 delivers. The V10 Phaeton is described in reviews as delivering a more sporting "S8" like drive than the linear performance of the W12, due to the psychological effect of the torque pushback. At the time the V10 was the best diesel available (anywhere) too, so it had extra kudos in my book.Now if it had that 6l petrol engine (which is nearly as quick as a 750i), I'd be converted. But diesel? And the obsolete PD system at that? I just can't see the point unless you do a huge annual mileage (which the OP doesn't)
"Obsolete PD" system? Its not like you can upgrade engine components anyway, I dont get the point!? Obsolete makes it sound old hat... its a Twin inline 5 cylinder (2 engines) with 2 ECUs controlling the load balancing and driving twin turbo's through a custom made transmission braked by the same 8pot Brembo brake pads and calipers as on the Lambo Gallardo. Its a freaking work of art.
The only reason its gone from the line-up is it doesnt meet the latest emission standards, but the engine itself lives on in DPF form in the Touareg and Touareg R50. The V10 was the top of the line model, above the W12.
I would like to extract some money from the "car" portion of my life to put towards more.. mundane things. Remember in Simpsons when the power plant closed and Lenny and Carl said "we need our Jobs... for driving to". Like that.. thank you recession.i have to ask
why are you selling it ?
and since you'll only get a few grand for it would you not rent it out for weddings or something (best mans car?)
I think I can get more than "a few grand". There are some people on Irish roads that dare to dream of a life less Toyota.
Exclusive in its rarity, yes it is.If it is so good why sell it ? And it is more a case of been rare, esoteric, a Q car even but exclusive? Not really. Despite its underpinnings it is still a VW luxobarge, just full of gadgets and gizmos. Ultimately it is only worth what someone will pay for it. It will always be seen as a poor mans Bentley.
A poor mans Bentley, yes it is, if poor is not having 300k for a car.
VW Luxobarge, yes it is, as is the A8 and Bentley which is made in the same glass factory in Dresden by the same men (both Phaeton and Bentley are handmade side by side). I have Bentley branded parts in the car and Bentleys have VW branded parts.
Knowing its features, merits and bedfellows, I think its the purchase for the thinking man.
This is just trolling. This isnt your Daddy's daysul. I consider myself a fairly diehard enthusiast and when driving 100MPH on the motorway overtaking Porsches and Z4s while the engine hums silently at 1100RPM, I think it sounds pretty damn refined and thats all Ill say on the diesel vs petrol rubbish.but petrol is still king when it comes to refinement and driving characteristics, so more for the enthusiast and connoisseur. And cultured folk will always prefer a petrol to a diesel too.0 -
At 12-15k miles pa, I don't think fuel bills are going to figure too highly in the overall running costs. I don't know about anyone else, but i'd cry every time I started that 535d if I knew it could have been a V8 petrol Panzerwagen. If you're going to do something stupid, you should at least do it properly.
+1000.
A V8 petrol or a straight 6 diesel?
No contest really.
If economy is an issue, that's why BMW sells a 520d, and for a four cylinder diesel it is actually very, very good. With 177 bhp it will be faster than the V6 Audi Cabrio too and it is so frugal a Toyota Prius can't keep up:)!Resale isn't an issue, your mileage is low so fuel consumption is not that important. You like the size of the 7 and you prefer petrol over diesel. There's only one option left methinks
I very much doubt you're gonna be disappointed with your choice...
Another matter for consideration is that the V8 petrol is a very strong, reliable and long lasting engine that has a fairly easy life. It is unlikely to give you any trouble over the next 8 years and 100,000 miles. Whereas I'm not sure if the same can reasonably be expected of a highly tuned, twin turbo modern common rail diesel.
Another good point.
Larger engines, especially big lazy V8s will have an extremely easy life, therefore they will last for a very long time, and I would say much, much longer than a twin turbo diesel is going to last.These modern diesels are excellent as a businessman's express or appeal to the corporate world where image and costs matter most, but petrol is still king when it comes to refinement and driving characteristics, so more for the enthusiast and connoisseur. And cultured folk will always prefer a petrol to a diesel too.
Yup. Petrol is better, it really is that simple. Everything bar CO2 emissions and mpg is better. Now that several petrols have turbos torque is no longer an issue as turbo petrols deliver peak torque at low revs like a diesel. Even naturally aspirated petrol have more than enough torque for everyday use as wel, that's what the gearbox is for, you just change up later when the engine is developing more torque. Diesel is well .... diesel, the fuel of tractors and other such vehicles, not something a big panzerwagen should be running on.
Why would you want to wilfully endanger people's lives with all the smelly Nitrous Oxides and Particulates by driving a diesel? Even worse why would you want a big expensive car with diesel clatter and rattles. You're telling everyone you're watching the pennies but don't mind spending lots of pounds by driving a paraffin stove.
And don't say that "it's so quiet you wouldn't even know it's a diesel" - the clatter is there even in a 730d, and yes you can hear the dieselness of it even when it is warmed up.0 -
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@Matt - I understand why you picked the diesel. I just have a preference for large naturally aspirated petrols. And the OP and I are lucky enough we do a low mileage so we can afford the fuel.
Surely that can't be right. I'm guessing here but brand new, I'd have thought the petrol would have cost at least €30k more than the diesel?
Oh I like big petrol engines too, but I prefer moderate (3litre ish) capacity with forced induction for the tuning ability. My next car likely will be a big NA petrol as I have no other choice in the car model Im eyeing, but for now I enjoy flooring the diesel around in the good financial conscience that its easy on the wallet, but "murders" all behind me. Yeah, Im a jerk..
I meant it was positioned above the W12 from a technical and marketing standpoint, not RRP (which in Ireland, not that anyone bought one here, was about 20k difference due to tax, more like 10k elsewhere). Secondhand, the W12 is definately cheaper than the V10, it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal. 0 -
Matt Simis wrote: »My next car likely will be a big NA petrol as I have no other choice in the car model Im eyeing
What is it? A Holden?Matt Simis wrote: »it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal.
Why would that be? My ads on adverts.ie
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I should f*cking well hope so.:)Matt Simis wrote: »it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal.0 -
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That's over £10,500! I suppose with our penal VRT and the completely different exchange rates at the time the price gap could have easily been €20,000 and possibly more, though I obviously can't say for certain.
Sure you can, just look at the 2004/2005 SIMI price list. It was 20k odd here.
I still dispute the W12 being the top line, it was the V10 that was the media darling and had all the custom engineering work done for it and the many white papers published. The W12 was a comparitively easier (though still classed as a) concept engine, it was more portable due to this simplicity too (Nardo Concept, Audi A8L, Touareg, Phaeton, Golf! ) 0 -
Media darling & custom engineering vs smoother, nicer-sounding, and an extra 140bhp? Decisions, decisions...Matt Simis wrote: »I still dispute the W12 being the top line, it was the V10 that was the media darling and had all the custom engineering work done for it and the many white papers published. The W12 was a comparitively easier (though still classed as a) concept engine, it was more portable due to this simplicity too (Nardo Concept, Audi A8L, Touareg, Phaeton, Golf! ) 0 -
Media darling & custom engineering vs smoother, nicer-sounding, and an extra 140bhp? Decisions, decisions...
The W12 has no sound at all. so its neither smoother or nicer sounding! People have left them running in the carpark without realising when shopping (not joking).
I should really attend one of these Meets, so at least you people can experience a "real" diesel and put down ye olde booklet of stereotyping once and for all.
If you can get someone with a W12 Phaeton too, we would be all set for the ultimate drag race, no bull**** allowed!
The launch version of the W12 only had 420bhp, less than 2/3 the torque (of the V10), virtually the same 0-60 in the real world (the V10 is much faster to 60 than the paper figure). crappy 5 speed auto box and the same (delimited) top speed of 200MPH. Then there is the economy, not just the cost, but the sheer hassle it must be.
Think about it, in practice: nearly twice the cost to get to the shops and back. 2x as many breaks in your cross country tour to fill up and you are hampered with the same 90L tank.. which on the petrol with 11 to 18MPG range is realistically too small.
@E92, Im lol'ing at quoting Honest John for research, you notice they mix up performance figures (repeatedly) and claim all 3.2 Phaetons are FWD (ewwwww), mixing up Merc and VW 4 wheel drive systems (4Matic, a joke of a AWD if there was one). Ive given up sending them in corrections, they are woeful.
Whatever you say about me, I research the fu_k out of my purchases.. I know my Phaetons.0 -
Matt Simis wrote: »If you can get someone with a W12 Phaeton too, we would be all set for the ultimate drag race, no bull**** allowed!
The launch version of the W12 only had 420bhp, less than 2/3 the torque (of the V10), virtually the same 0-60 in the real world (the V10 is much faster to 60 than the paper figure). crappy 5 speed auto box and the same (delimited) top speed of 200MPH
The W12 would win that drag race hands down. I'm a bit confused why you are getting so defensive, especially by using the "Now that we have derailed another thread into how aweful diesels are.." subtitle?
420BHP is a lot more than 313BHP and torque difference doesn't matter all that much if you put your foot right down in a car with a modern autobox
As far as I know, both are restricted to 150MPH (not 200MPH) as per the well known German saloon manufacturers gentleman's agreementMy ads on adverts.ie
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The W12 would win that drag race hands down. I'm a bit confused why you are getting so defensive, especially by using the "Now that we have derailed another thread into how aweful diesels are.." subtitle?
420BHP is a lot more than 313BHP and torque difference doesn't matter all that much if you put your foot right down in a car with a modern autobox
As far as I know, both are restricted to 150MPH (not 200MPH) as per the well known German saloon manufacturers gentleman's agreement
Not defensive, Im just joking that there is virtually 100% theory-talk than you know, practical testing, going on here (Motors board in general I guess). Much referencing websites and quoting figures, all very safe and defined. If this was 20ys ago and a different country Id like to think we could test out these theories and all learn something. Every question here boils down to immovable opinons, debate seems.. pointless.
And we did ruin a pefectly good thread on the whole diesel sucks and ruins cars thing again, it was about two BMWs, I felt guilty enough mearly suggesting an alternative vehicle!
PS: Mine is delimited0 -
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Matt,
While I appreciate (like me) you're trying to sell your car, the extent of your hijacking of this thread in order to prove the phaeton's worth is a tad OTT, no?
Yes, I just said that... though in fairness (to me) the last posts here were about the merits of engine fuels that I simply commented on/got suckered into as usual. I did wait till 2nd page to even make my suggestion.
Perhaps leave the modding to the mods, you know, that one Im talking to right there..
PS: Change "Focus St" to "Focus ST" (bolding intended), it looks like a Christmas invition to a place call Focus Street at the moment.. 0 -
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Matt Simis wrote: »I considered the W12 Petrol Phaeton, but at 60% less MPG (talking like 15 at best), it would become an extravagant weekend toy and require a permanent spot at the Petrol Station. I also prefer the "bang" the V10 delivers. The V10 Phaeton is described in reviews as delivering a more sporting "S8" like drive than the linear performance of the W12, due to the psychological effect of the torque pushback. At the time the V10 was the best diesel available (anywhere) too, so it had extra kudos in my book.
"Obsolete PD" system? Its not like you can upgrade engine components anyway, I dont get the point!? Obsolete makes it sound old hat... its a Twin inline 5 cylinder (2 engines) with 2 ECUs controlling the load balancing and driving twin turbo's through a custom made transmission braked by the same 8pot Brembo brake pads and calipers as on the Lambo Gallardo. Its a freaking work of art.
The only reason its gone from the line-up is it doesnt meet the latest emission standards, but the engine itself lives on in DPF form in the Touareg and Touareg R50. The V10 was the top of the line model, above the W12.
I would like to extract some money from the "car" portion of my life to put towards more.. mundane things. Remember in Simpsons when the power plant closed and Lenny and Carl said "we need our Jobs... for driving to". Like that.. thank you recession.
I think I can get more than "a few grand". There are some people on Irish roads that dare to dream of a life less Toyota.
Exclusive in its rarity, yes it is.
A poor mans Bentley, yes it is, if poor is not having 300k for a car.
VW Luxobarge, yes it is, as is the A8 and Bentley which is made in the same glass factory in Dresden by the same men (both Phaeton and Bentley are handmade side by side). I have Bentley branded parts in the car and Bentleys have VW branded parts.
Knowing its features, merits and bedfellows, I think its the purchase for the thinking man.
This is just trolling. This isnt your Daddy's daysul. I consider myself a fairly diehard enthusiast and when driving 100MPH on the motorway overtaking Porsches and Z4s while the engine hums silently at 1100RPM, I think it sounds pretty damn refined and thats all Ill say on the diesel vs petrol rubbish.
Don't know whether people want this conversation to continue, but I'd like to chip in that a claim that the Phaeton is a poor-man's Rolls Royce is bloody ridiculous.
Although I don't have much experience with Phaetons other than a bit of reading up on them, I'd agree with the above poster. The Phaeton is a bloody masterpiece, probably the only Volkswagen I'd really covet. In the case of the Phaeton, I'd put it above the A8 in terms of ingenuity, almost on par with the Rollers and Bentley's - the car is a masterpiece.
BTW if you want to sell I'd suggest fixing the photos on carzone, there's no decent interior ones - one is sideways, one blurry!0 -
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Ok, I did ask for alternatives too so I have no trouble with the .....ahem, pimping.
Some alternatives I have considered are:
2005 Cayenne Turbo listed at €60k
2005 M5 listed at €66k
And for cheaper but older... 2002 S6 listed at €20k
I would love the M5 but I feel that it won't come down into my price league too soon.... and I don't have secure parking so I would prefer not to have it too easily available outside my house...
The Porsche is also proper madness.... I will give it a close look but it too is too expensive unless there is substantial room to maneuver downwards.
The Audi could be had for relatively small money but it is 7 years old and starting to look a bit dated. I'd love a current RS6 but would need to find another €150k from somewhere
The current S8 is dropping fast too but is still out of my league.0 -
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