Boards.ie Photography Seminar?

ThOnda

The gear threads are dominating this forum. It is not bad, but also not good. I was thinking about breaking the flood of the gear porn.

There was already one day of lectures last year before Christmas (and I could not attend). However people posted very interesting and positive reactions to that event.

Do you think we could organise something similar again?

I would be for instance interested if there was a lecture on the photography theory, or theory of art at all (because photography could produce art). We could encurrage boards members studying/working at universities to contact their lecturers, if they could provide such overview.

And of course, some practical oriented lectures would be welcomed as well (using external flash on DSLR, workflow...).

Please, feel free to discuss and to come up with your initiativity.

kensutz

Sometime around March would give us plenty of opportunity to organise a day of it.

quilmore

Following your thinking... can something be done to separate gear stuff and photographic art? all together, even when photographic related, is a bit hectic to me

ThOnda

I was thinking about mixing both - Theory, practical, theory, gear, ...

It really depends on whether we get anybody to have interesting lecture.

quilmore

sorry, I wasn't clear
my point was with this forum, which I love
but I've seen others photographic forums grow away from a flat forum to gear, art, etc sub forums
does anyone thinks similar or is just me?

I love it anyway, but sometimes change is good

Calina

Subdividing the forum has been discussed before. What you have right now is what you're getting, ie, digital darkroom, expeditions, and the photography challenges.

Possibilities suggested included splits off for "good" photographers and "learner" photographers, or "pros" and "amateurs".

We've always rejected it for various reasons, the key one being that photography isn't really the central focus of this site anyway, and the way it has worked to date has been to our benefit. I am not au fait with all photography fora around the net, but I do know that a couple of photography clubs have subdivisions not unlike what you're suggesting and I think photographyireland if it still exists is not that different either.

I'm against the move away from a central hub to be honest; the community spirit here tends to work. I realise that a barrage of gear threads is a bit boring, but it also needs to be recognise that the forum is the sum of its users contributions. In other words, if there's other stuff you would like to see discussed, you really need to post it on the front page too.

We do this from time to time...elven had a regular Friday thing going, and every once in a while, something from left field turns up on the front page here also.

Th0nda, if I recall correctly Sebzy set up the previous day workshop that you are talking about and yes, although I couldn't make a whole day of it, I found it interesting.

I believe leinsterman also got Guy Gowan in for us of a day.

What might be helpful is if people are interested in sharing their knowledge, they let you/the forum know and if people are looking for particularly seminars, likewise, they let you know. Getting a location may be your key issue.

Phototoxin

I disagree with division as it may cause eliteism.

Second RE:

I was thinking about breaking the flood of the gear porn.

*everyone* knows that unless you use a leica and shoot tri-X you are impure and must be snubbed whenever possible!

ThOnda

I didn't mean to break this forum into more sections, just to make another discussion, event, maybe just a thread about something different. The spirit and ideas behind the cameras are the moving force of our photography. And I would like to show that some basic thoughts and ideas are not complicated and therefore very useful for every single creative person. It can only lead to e.g. learning new things, understanding more about your favorite photograpy subject or to broadening your horizons.

CabanSail

Would this be a 1 day Seminar?

What level would you be looking at as an audience?

Paulw

The last one organised was great.

We had talks on - post processing, event photography, sport photography, street photography, the legal side of photography and a few other topics.

I thought it was brilliant.

I'd be more than willing to help again, if needed.

Anouilh

ThOnda wrote: »

Do you think we could organise something similar again?

I would be for instance interested if there was a lecture on the photography theory, or theory of art at all (because photography could produce art). We could encurrage boards members studying/working at universities to contact their lecturers, if they could provide such overview..

We could organise this ourselves on the forum here.
I find it difficult to take time to travel to meetings and events, but we could set out a course of study here and invite experts in each field to make a written presentation, leading to open debate and Q&A on Boards.ie.

I am very interested in aesthetics and there is a lot of material available on the subject these days. I don't think one has to work in a university, btw, to be able to present a coherent line of study on this subject.

I started a thread on composition. Perhaps more posters could look at it and bring some insights on how they set up a shot and what effects they are trying to achieve.

In photography, the medium and the message (as good old McLuhan used tell us) are very linked and equipment is central to the final effect.

A thread on how to create aesthetically pleasing (or unnerving effects) might open up discussion?

Anouilh

Phototoxin wrote: »

I disagree with division as it may cause eliteism.

Second RE:

*everyone* knows that unless you use a leica and shoot tri-X you are impure and must be snubbed whenever possible!

Thank you for making me LOL.

I don't think many people here have a chip on their shoulder about elitist tendancies. My half broken Fuji Finepix, with it glaringly large pixels in web mode and my more fancy Canon get equal say.

We are, after all, a democracy?

TelePaul

Will this be anotehr 'share the knowledge' event?

af_thefragile

I'ld love to attend one of these... Sounds like a good idea esp for someone who's just starting off like me... Especially the art aspect of it.

Sebzy

Well if people are interested I can hook us up with a venue again.

The last Share the knowledge event was dec 2007
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055182602

stcstc

i would be interested

if i can help let me know

sasar

Sounds interesting, would love to attent something like this.

Phototoxin

I don't think many people here have a chip on their shoulder about elitist tendancies. My half broken Fuji Finepix, with it glaringly large pixels in web mode and my more fancy Canon get equal say.

We are, after all, a democracy?

thats why this place ROCKS THE FREE WORLD!

but IF there were certain other subforums, it may lead to a perception of eliteism, which may lead to an expectation and ultimately the presence of elitism. {over time that is}

Also in a share the knowledge thing.. sounds interesting but I cannot guarantee that I will be present after january. [in one sense hoping i wont as it will mean JOB!!]

challengemaster

Here, listen. About 5 of ye now have 5D mkII's. Get some large CF cards, and video this one ffs!

ThOnda

I would like to wait if we can get somebody "from the outside". Talking especially about theory (of art and photography), the variety of opinions posted here is reaching it's maximum and getting new inputs for further (even on-line) discussions could be nice refreshing impulse here.

Could we just find out what topics could be covered first?

Anouilh

ThOnda wrote: »

Talking especially about theory (of art and photography), the variety of opinions posted here is reaching it's maximum ...


Could we just find out what topics could be covered first?

It is possible that posters here are more informed than many of their posts reveal. Nobody wants to delve too deeply at first in a general forum.

I certainly think that inviting experts to initiate discussion is a very good idea.

Perhaps the questions that face photographers every day could be listed in order of the concern generated? They will not be the same for every poster here.

I have thought a little about this and basically, apart from the question of skill and technique, my basic impetus is to make photos that are not dull.

Perhaps the theme of dullness could be a start?

Also, this was too good to keep to myself:

http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/009uvX

melekalikimaka

I could ask my lecturers possibly,what exactly is wanted?

ThOnda

My idea was a basic lecture on aesthetics, theory of art or focused a little on photography.
It would be nice to have summarised and named few basic principles of creative art. I should consider myself as a geek with technical knowledge, so getting more information from the the higher levels of art would be just excellent.

We all know some rules of composition and photography, we have read lots of books, but it would be nice to get some overview from somebody with deep knowledge and understanding (hopefully also practical) from that area.

This is just my idea. I would be pleased if anybody could express their opinions and demands in this thread. Thank you all.

Anouilh

Starting a reading list on a separate thread might be useful?

I started a Blogger blog, Short Sights at Noon, to try to find my way through all the aspects of digital photography that caused me confusion. There are some links on the right hand side of the page, if you scroll down, called "Aesthetics".
I can add links there, as I find relevant ones.

I spent a few years re-reading Proust recently and this led me back to Burke and his theories. It is worth remembering that the "new" art of photography was not highly regarded in the 19th century and was seen as inferior to painting and sculpture by analysts like Baudelaire.

We live in a very different world and writing on the arts has been much influenced by psychology and sociology. The practice of making value judgements is now frowned upon, which would be worth discussing.

I found this helpful exploration of digital media today:

http://karaart.com/art.critic/gb/jd.jarvis/jd.jarvis.html

Anybody interested in the history of photography and its links to literature should enjoy this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NRS_UInjEZsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=brassai+proust+photography

There are some very good photos reproduced from the Proustean world.

What are the themes you are most interested in Th0nda.
I can look up some references if I have more information.

Anouilh

ThOnda wrote: »

It would be nice to have summarised and named few basic principles of creative art.

Naming of parts is relatively easy.

A search for "glossary aesthetics" gives pages of technical information, including this:

http://post.thing.net/node/659

Plato's rejection of the plastic arts has been discussed for centuries and should whip up a bit of a storm. Friends in academia assure me that Platonists and Aristotelians are capable, in some cases, of drawing blood in defence of their often antagonistic theories.

Most photographers are too busy fiddling with DOF to engage in such scraps...

ThOnda

I have already created a thread about Recommended Literature, but with no response :-/

Anouilh

Apologies. I missed that thread, but will find something to add.

elven

If we're looking at doing something beyond the technicalities, i'm definitely in on this.

I'm not sure how we might have one of our own up there lecturing on composition and aesthetic theory so this may be the best area to get an outsider in, possibly a lecturer as mele suggested?

It's a good idea to have a mix of subjects though, I don't know if we have enough take-up on just the art side of things round here. Some more post processing techniques would surely go down well with the masses. I could do with something new, i've fallen into a bit of a rut on that side of things

democrates

elven wrote: »

It's a good idea to have a mix of subjects though, I don't know if we have enough take-up on just the art side of things round here. Some more post processing techniques would surely go down well with the masses. I could do with something new, i've fallen into a bit of a rut on that side of things

I think we all go through phases ok.

How about a pimp my photo thread, similar to random photo but where you can post a photo and invite people to post a pp version for discussion?

IANAL but for copyright maybe a commons share-alike or attribution license would be needed, interesting or crackpot idea?

PCPhoto

would be interested in the whole seminar thingy .... and pretty sure theres a couple of others that would be interested - city-exile, paulw etc.

Could someone keep me informed if this happens (please).

a suggestion would be lectures on various styles/types of photography by professional photographers (ie. fashion, sport, news/reportage, wedding, studio, landscape, PR/Commercial, food photography etc etc)...a kind of "how to" session.

Also, photoshop/webdesign workshops designed with photographers in mind also a suggestion.

I have Photoshop CS2 but doubt that I would ever use it to its fullest.

Anouilh

It might be worthwhile approaching some of the lecturers in art colleges who are also professional photographers. I have a friend who is studying photography for the next few years and her teachers are very communicative. It would be a good way for their work to become better known, and we could extend our understanding of what inspires them.

I've been reading up on mimesis again and the whole question of "representation" is central to photography.

The strange thing is that, having taken a year to use my cameras with a bit more conscious input, I have started seeing things I never noticed before. Shimmering reflections of streetscapes in tall glass and metal buildings are an obvious example, but even the finer behaviour patterns of birds in the garden have become a focus of study.

Perhaps photographers here might make a list of the areas they find most appealing and we could search for experts in each of these fields?

Anouilh

ThOnda wrote: »

I would like to wait if we can get somebody "from the outside". Talking especially about theory (of art and photography), the variety of opinions posted here is reaching it's maximum and getting new inputs for further (even on-line) discussions could be nice refreshing impulse here.

Could we just find out what topics could be covered first?

The name of Barthes has been mentioned from time to time here. I've just found this paper about Barthes, Proust, photography and memory.

http://www.fabula.org/lht/4/Yacavone.html

It's worth reading writers for whom photography was a new art as they had a very fresh way of analysing its position within the arts.

ThOnda

What language was that? I have to delete my thanks, sorry. I am not compatible with such language.

Fionn

i have a bad history with seminars!!!

Hugh_C

(I have an article on Barthes' Punctum, fecked if I know what it's all about though)

I have to disagree with Elven, post production in photography is very much secondary to conceiving of and capturing the initial image. I think you can pretty much learn post production techniques from web or mags or just watching someone who's better than you at it.

I'd be in favour of more art-driven topics.

Fionn

i dont understand any of that??

melekalikimaka

Fionn wrote: »

i dont understand any of that??

looking at your posts this eve... i think someone is a bit tipsy hehe

Anouilh

Hugh_C wrote: »

(I have an article on Barthes' Punctum, fecked if I know what it's all about though

It would be great if you could share the reference to the article here.

The "Studium" in Barthes is the aspect of the photo that is culturally recognizable by all viewers. We recognise the Arc de Triomphe or O'Connell Street in a photo. The "Punctum" is the individual, personal reaction that is particular to each individual viewer of any image and which is beyond words. It is presented as a "wounding", where emotion penetrates .

The question of where photography fits within the arts has been much debated and there are many disagreements on what Barthes means. Also, analysts of his presentation of photos, with the clarification of his personal "punctum" have been scrutinized by many writers and are a useful starting point for debate, regardless of whether one is convinced by Barthes or not.

Finding a language which communicates the effect of photographic imagery on the passive viewer is probably worth a seminar?

Hugh_C

Anouilh wrote: »

It would be great if you could share the reference to the article here.

I downloaded it as a PDF Anouilh, I can't remember from where. I'll email it to you.

jaqian

Enough talk about Punctum's any more ideas on getting this seminar off the ground?

Anouilh

jaqian wrote: »

Enough talk about Punctum's any more ideas on getting this seminar off the ground?

Good...

Back to the "Studium".

sNarah

well, I'd be interested as well, just for making sure, this would be at a location correct? Because I would be one of those persons that only absorbs information if someone tells it to me, so an "internet seminar" would not be something I'd be a fan off...

Interesting subjects I think are what Anouihl said "art photography" and maybe something on macro/close ups? And I would also like to learn more about underwater photography, I know that the Drogheda Photo Club had a presentation of a well know underwater photographer next week - don't remeber his name though...

shepthedog

Wasn't there a seminar done before where a person from boards with a speciality in a particular area delivered a talk for maybe 30 mins?

Like Sports, Documentary, post processing etc? Maybe it was held in DCU...

Something like that again would be great.. There is certainly enough people here with proficiencies in areas to make it work..

Paulw

shepthedog wrote: »

Wasn't there a seminar done before where a person from boards with a speciality in a particular area delivered a talk for maybe 30 mins?

Like Sports, Documentary, post processing etc? Maybe it was held in DCU...

Something like that again would be great.. There is certainly enough people here with proficiencies in areas to make it work..

Yeah, there was. It turned out to be a great day, with some very interesting discussions and topics.

I'd be interested in that again, if it was happening.

kjt

Paulw wrote: »

Yeah, there was. It turned out to be a great day, with some very interesting discussions and topics.

I'd be interested in that again, if it was happening.

+1, Had a great day and it was really good to meet new faces as par usual!

Paulw

I think this thread really has two seminars in mind - 1) like the last one, instructional about the different types/styles of photography, and then 2) about art photography and such.

Covey

I'd certainly be interested. The first one was great.

1 with maybe a sprinkling of 2 above would be my preference.

Subjects that would interest me;

For 1

1 Flash
2 Printing (maybe framing also)
3 Portraiture
4 Post Processing

and for 2

1. Ways of Seeing
2. Atmosphere and how to create it

ThOnda

I am interested in all topics, but I would prefer theory of art, photography as a medium of art and also conceptual work (not only in photography).

af_thefragile

Would you guys be doing something on photo editing/enhancing stuff?
Like almost every photograph seems to be digitally enhanced in some way. I think it'ld be quite useful to learn those fancy digital photoshop tricks to get the effect you want from your picture...

Anouilh

Is there any update on when this Seminar might take place, please?

Covey

What we did last time was, people who were prepared to talk on a topic put their name forward and we chose what was most popular from the list.

Any volunteers ??