Afghanistan and the history of Islamic terrorism against the west

Manic Moran

This is karma.

A reliance on the principle of Karma is a little too mystical for my tastes. I prefer rationality, personally.

Secondly. I'm well travelled. I have muslims friends. my Aunt also married muslims. They are if not one of the nicest people I've ever met.

I fully agree with you. I can count amongst my friends anything from a Senegalese soldier (French-speaking muslim) through Arab royalty. They are incredibly hospitable people, I have sampled no small amount of their hospitality over the slightly-more-then-three-weeks I've spent in the Mid-East.

Doesn't change the fact that a small number of them hate our guts, either for our religion or our culture, and are willing to act violently on that hate.

NTM

mysterious

Manic Moran wrote: »

A reliance on the principle of Karma is a little too mystical for my tastes. I prefer rationality, personally.

I fully agree with you. I can count amongst my friends anything from a Senegalese soldier (French-speaking muslim) through Arab royalty. They are incredibly hospitable people, I have sampled no small amount of their hospitality over the slightly-more-then-three-weeks I've spent in the Mid-East.

Doesn't change the fact that a small number of them hate our guts, either for our religion or our culture, and are willing to act violently on that hate.

NTM

In this case there is nothing mystical.

America and the west seem to think, that they get hated and resented for no "reason"

It is simply, what you attract, what you provoke and project out to the world.

I.e American foreign policy for the last 50 years.
Has created tyranny/puppet governments. Taking mineral oil wealth. Selling arms, creating and sponsoring terrorism in the ME. Destabliizing the global markets. Genocide. Invasion of soverienge countries against the people and their own country. Lieing to get thier own people into wars.

It's all about money. America will do absaloultely anything, if it means constant T.V brainwashing claming most muslims hate the west, you can be sure it's about money.;)

This is what I called negative karma. The west should really wake up and smell the coffee, and realise what chaos they create, rather than focusing on what muslims think or what Pakistan thinks and does all the time.

People don't hate something for no reason. This is not how the world or karma works.

That is my point on karma. There is nothing mystical or irrational about this. What I dish out will come back to me in some way.

Manic Moran

mysterious wrote: »

America will do absaloultely anything, if it means constant T.V brainwashing claming most muslims hate the west, you can be sure it's about money.;)

Christ, I must be defective. I somehow have managed to avoid being brainwashed by US TV.

NTM

mysterious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Christ, I must be defective. I somehow have managed to avoid being brainwashed by US TV.

NTM

Are you sure?;) So tell me, what do you think of Obama in power. I'm curious on this one. This is also very on topic, it goes to what im going to ask you next on the foriegn policy in Afghanistan and the "war on terror"


When I was over there I couldnt get over how retarded the media is there. It was so biased and non-sensical.

Manic Moran

So tell me, what do you think of Obama in power.

My opinions are posted in detail on the US politics forum.

I voted for the other guy. I disagree with a number of his policies, and agree with a few of them. In my view he's not the end of life as we know it, just not my preferred candidate. I have no reason to believe he will not do what he thinks to be in the country's best interest.

When I was over there I couldnt get over how retarded the media is there. It was so biased and non-sensical.

I agree. I have posted to this extent on other fora as well.

So what is your follow-on question?

NTM

mysterious

Manic Moran wrote: »

My opinions are posted in detail on the US politics forum.

I voted for the other guy. I disagree with a number of his policies, and agree with a few of them. In my view he's not the end of life as we know it, just not my preferred candidate. I have no reason to believe he will not do what he thinks to be in the country's best interest.

Oh Oscar the political mod pernamently banned me because of my strong views and opinions. Pity I cant see that. I'd be interested to see many American people on here with their political views.

Well you know it doesn't matter who you vote for. It doesn't matter if your republican or democrat these days. Whoever is backed the most by the money makes/elites/bankers/wall street/Zionists and ruling families.

The reason why I asked, is because the media play the biggest role in the turn out of every American election.

It is precisely why Ron paul did not get the spotlight as the only person that seem to represent the people and not the elite. The elites have the power and control of the media so therefore he is not going to be on the screen. If you look at how the media bullied him and muted him throughout the whole election. Youtube and google dumbed down his views and ratings all over the net etc. The media decides who gets in It's why the American people become so sucked in to this race of DEM VS REP. It's a way of dividing the nation in half and have people clashing with all the drama created by the media.

But's that another topic.

I agree. I have posted to this extent on other fora as well.

So what is your follow-on question?

NTM

My follow on question was, Obama is still going to continue the foreign policy of the republicans, still in Iraq, going into Afghanistan and fight this "war on terror"

And wait for it Obama has his script now where he wants diplomacy with Iran, as people like me have ****ed up their Iran war plans;) They keep blocking me on major sites. But I will just keep opening the can of beans.

The media over there are still trying to get the American people to fight an Iran war. They can't but they can get you to fight in Afghanistan to fight these "terrorists"

mysterious

It's was always ABOUT THE


MONEY and nothing but the money. If it means a million dead in Iraq, then its all blood profits. This world has to change now and fast. The idea of these wars is absurd.

It's 2009 and people brought into this change with Obama. Yet hes going into a another war. My next point maybe a little arrogant. But How come I can spot the deception so easily. how com I knew Obama was the biggest deliberate shock awe puppet in US history.

Obama or McCain getting into office is about the MONEY

War is war, money is money. and death is the result. When are we going to take a seat and look around what the hell is happening in this world.

These wars will only increase once the government have turned the internet into cable T.V. They have realised they can't put their agenda out their like they use to via T.V as most people don't watch the crap on T.V anymore. So the internet is biting them in the back, as we have access to world wide information at our finger tips.

This is why there was no Iran war;)
Don't get me started why they are going into Afghanistan. I actually am saying this right now. I personally think the main centre to be blown up or attacked is Washington D.C. They point fingers to much, I don't have respect for this nonsense.

Obama says, I'm invading in Afghanistan, why don't they themselves, Cheney and the gang go fight these wars, see what they say to the answer to that.

Manic Moran

That's OK re Iran diplomacy. His olive branch was rejected, so we're still where we were before. Nuking in three...two...one...

I didn't see a question, though. More a bunch of statements. (A lack of question marks indicated a lack of questions)

Don't get me started why they are going into Afghanistan

I sortof hate to point this out to you, but we've been in Afghanistan since 2001.

And wait for it Obama has his script now where he wants diplomacy with Iran, as people like me have ****ed up their Iran war plans They keep blocking me on major sites. But I will just keep opening the can of beans.

Don't think you might be overestimating your personal contribution just a teeny bit?

NTM

mysterious

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's OK re Iran diplomacy. His olive branch was rejected, so we're still where we were before. Nuking in three...two...one...

I didn't see a question, though. More a bunch of statements. (A lack of question marks indicated a lack of questions)

Firstly what about Iran, I don't quite get your Irony in that post. Tell me more?

So... what kind of questioning are looking for, from my recollection. alot Americans don't generally question anything outside the media. Since I don't know you at all. I don't think I have to bring on many personal questions to you.

I sortof hate to point this out to you, but we've been in Afghanistan since 2001.

Yes I know that, but another full scale war. They have been creating alot of conflict there since the CIA do their dirty business. You can push the date right back to the cold war if you want too. America has alot of **** on its shoes. "it aint the Islamic fundamentalists" either doing it or making them do the things they do.

But of course, CNN and Fox all those nonsense networks, will tell you they are defeating the forces of evil. It's so corny and inane it's becoming just unbearable for me to watch that crap. It becomes disturbing for me to see fully grown adults like Bill O Reilly and other newcasts spinning out the mis-information all the time constantly to the point the majority of American's believe it. As the Nazi used to do, if you keep telling someone the same story all the time, they will end up believing it.


What are they trying to do now. Destroy the alqCIAeda or the CIA-taliban. If you know what I'm talking about

Or is it oil?
and money?
Is it to keep the Russians out again?

Or the best one in my opinion.
Is to give the American people the idea, that they are actually going to win the "war on terror" which is waffle. and get those "terrorists" that "plotted" 9/11. Took over Newyork aerspace with "penknives" And all passengers were "prepared to "sit" during the whole flight knowing their fate. And these "terrorists" were going to end their own lives. This is the official 9/11 story. People believe it. If they American government really were telling the truth they would have gotten these so called terrorists the day of 9/11. But as you know the offical story is bit of a fairytale.

Sometimes I wonder why am I on this planet, the amount bullsh!t here is just to much for people like me to cope with.

The people in Afghanistan "blew up the Towers on 9/11". You think? Oh dear, another war eh. This is the reason why they are in Afghanistan. It's balooooooony. Obama is been told to do this, to give the perception they are taking responsilbility now to take care of the "terrorists" who are out there "to get us". The story would kinda fit wouldn't it. This world is gone to the stage they needed a 9/11 so they could wake up. They way I see it they really need a good wake up call. They were no terrorists. Your American government were to busy making money out of Iraq while the American people were worrying about the so called terrorists.

The people with the money can create and do what they damn like, as we are to bloody asleep gullable to understand the reality around us anymore. Just some of us (including me) Has to do the informing now and it isn't by choice or fun either. I hate this reality as it is. Infact I can't bare it like this. Liars in this world get away with it, we human beings are not that smart to catch them.

Don't think you might be overestimating your personal contribution just a teeny bit?

NTM

Not one bit. I understand how this reality works. When you push your mark in the world, there is no limit as to what you can do or achieve;) I was forced to know this, since I'm getting banned on all sites where I speak of this. Not to mention the fanbase I have.

I'm not the only one, There is literally thousands of people out there "who are causing effect"

There are wars going on right now, that you can only imagine.

diverdriver

:pWell mysterious, you are indeed well named. Tinfoil hat time! Not only do believe in Barack Obama 2009-2012 Illuminati NWO End Times Conspiracy Exposed (1/7) but that 9/11 was an American plot. Then we have

And wait for it Obama has his script now where he wants diplomacy with Iran, as people like me have ****ed up their Iran war plans They keep blocking me on major sites. But I will just keep opening the can of beans.

You seem to get banned a lot. All those moderator must be in the conspiracy.

Sometimes I wonder why am I on this planet, the amount bullsh!t here is just to much for people like me to cope with.

Believe me we all know exactly how you feel:pac:

Look people here were trying to have a serious discussion about Islamic terrorism. The conspiracy forum is elsewhere. Plenty of illumati there.:p

mysterious

diverdriver wrote: »

:pWell mysterious, you are indeed well named. Tinfoil hat time! Not only do believe in Barack Obama 2009-2012 Illuminati NWO End Times Conspiracy Exposed (1/7) but that 9/11 was an American plot. Then we have You seem to get banned a lot. All those moderator must be in the conspiracy.Believe me we all know exactly how you feel:pac:

Whats your point, that your opinon is better? BTW the bannings were of 6th bullying. Don't worry I will sort that issue fairly lively and shortly. I don't get banned often either. Some mods can also behave irratically. I have people telling me they are not happy with the current modding of C.T at the minute. No it's not the old mods It's all but one.

So you believe who plotted 9/11. Do you believe everthing the government say think this is sufficient enough.I just want to tell you the government that plotted 9/11. Lie to get away with it. Lie to get away with murder and lie to to get us into wars, and there is no stopping from lieing about 9/11

You need to have a fresh look at the world, it's only then you realise who is the real monster.

Seriously what is your point anyhow.

Look people here were trying to have a serious discussion about Islamic terrorism. The conspiracy forum is elsewhere. Plenty of illumati there.:p

You brought up the conspiracy. Not me;) I was taking about the topic. This is very on topic. I think we should all know why they are starting another war. We should all know why they are going into another war. We should all ask why Obama is going into another war.

That is not conspiracy theory. That is called having intellegence. It is called trying to figure out with logic what is going on. We really don't need more lies and deception. We really don't need more war and genoicide.

So what should we talk about? What Obama, Cheney, Fox news, CNN and what you say to be true on this war. Seriously what exactly should we say and only talk about on this topic.

Why is it always okay to point at Islamic fundementalists, and not the elites in this war.

Looking forward to hear your response.

diverdriver

It's been off topic since you arrived.
As for this:

We should all ask why Obama is going into another war.

What war? Is he after us this time or is it just you? It's not in any of the papers or on TV. He seems like a nice chap not one for starting wars for no reason.:p

I missed this paragraph of yours earlier:

Not one bit. I understand how this reality works. When you push your mark in the world, there is no limit as to what you can do or achieve I was forced to know this, since I'm getting banned on all sites where I speak of this. Not to mention the fanbase I have.

Now that's a doozie. I think reality and you haven't been on speaking terms for a while!

Sorry that's ad hominen, couldn't resist. I'll take my ban!:(

mysterious

diverdriver wrote: »

It's been off topic since you arrived.
As for this: What war? Is he after us this time or is it just you? It's not in any of the papers or on TV. He seems like a nice chap not one for starting wars for no reason.:p

I missed this paragraph of yours earlier:Now that's a doozie. I think reality and you haven't been on speaking terms for a while!

Sorry that's ad hominen, couldn't resist. I'll take my ban!:(

On Ignore.

Manic Moran

mysterious wrote: »

Firstly what about Iran, I don't quite get your Irony in that post. Tell me more?

I'm saying that if people like you have been attempting to *** their war plans, you also have to deal with the Iranians who don't seem to be all that interested in the diplomatic side of negotiation either. Takes two people to talk. (Unless you're suffering from dementia, I guess)

So... what kind of questioning are looking for, from my recollection.

I'm not looking for any. You said you would pose one. The implication being that I was going to answer one when posed.

Yes I know that, but another full scale war.

Against whom? The ANA are on our side now. No full-scale combat opponents remain to be fought in the country.

But of course, CNN and Fox all those nonsense networks, will tell you they are defeating the forces of evil. It's so corny and inane it's becoming just unbearable for me to watch that crap.

Even a broken clock is occasionally right. Whilst I will agree with you that there is often much hyperbole and Orwellian-speak, in this case, yes, I think the individuals in question such as OBL and Mullah Omar are evil.

Is to give the American people the idea, that they are actually going to win the "war on terror" which is waffle. and get those "terrorists" that "plotted" 9/11. Took over Newyork aerspace with "penknives" And all passengers were "prepared to "sit" during the whole flight knowing their fate. And these "terrorists" were going to end their own lives. This is the official 9/11 story. People believe it. If they American government really were telling the truth they would have gotten these so called terrorists the day of 9/11. But as you know the offical story is bit of a fairytale.

I don't know if we're going to win it, but I'll settle for a stand-off. My despair over the wussification of society is already well-stated on other threads, though I admit I'm a bit of an outsider since I advocate going around wearing a sidearm as a matter of course and indeed I always have a loaded sidearm at home. The whole wolves, sheep, sheepdogs business. Up until 9/11 the standard 'advice' from authorities has been 'shut up, be good, and do nothing.' It is to be noted that once it became clear that such a policy was not conducive to long-term survival that the passengers on the Pennsylvania flight indeed did not sit quietly. I don't see why terrorists ending their own lives is particularly difficult to comprehend. Martyrism has been around for quite some time, and it is still routinely practised.

Sometimes I wonder why am I on this planet, the amount bullsh!t here is just to much for people like me to cope with.

Hitch a lift with a passing Vogon Constructor Ship. Problem solved.

The people in Afghanistan "blew up the Towers on 9/11". You think?

Slight oversimplification, but yes. If OBL and his buddies were in Afghanistan at the time, then that would be a pretty good summary.

Not one bit. I understand how this reality works. When you push your mark in the world, there is no limit as to what you can do or achieve;)

You wouldn't give the possibility of a notable set of political and military reprecussions from an attack on Iran being such that they would give pause to a kinetic action any credence at all for the fact that we've not bombed them, then?

There are wars going on right now, that you can only imagine.

Why would I need to imagine wars? I get to partake in them!

NTM

Ping Chow Chi

Manic Moran wrote: »

Why would I need to imagine wars? I get to partake in them!

NTM

that made me chuckle

diverdriver

On Ignore.

LOL:D Where's that ignore button?

Ping Chow Chi

you have a niffty ignore list in your user CP ... I have a select clientele in mine!

mysterious

good vs evil crack,

Simpletons never get it. The elites use this good vs evil term, so we are polarised into thinking pinny fathtom is good, and yummy boo too din is bad.

So we praise Fathtom to go to war and lead us. We yank ourselves into a war against yummy boo too din. And bascially most of us die.


The elites bascially have their goals mets, for our lives thrown out for a death match. None of you will ever get what is the simple reality of the West vs East is...

I'll await to be attacked because most people hate the truth thrown in their face.

Manic Moran

And bascially most of us die.

Oh, we'll all die eventually. Some of us just have the process accelerated.

NTM

mysterious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oh, we'll all die eventually. Some of us just have the process accelerated.

NTM

Yes because they are giving their souls away for a war, that has no real positive result. Please dont tell me you are making an excuse for these unwarrented deaths:eek:

The reptile elites, say willy nilly has nucs, you believe them. You then went and fought the war killed thousands of people came home. The reports found out that they were no W.M.Ds. You think this accelerated amount of innoncents lives is ok???

This is horrific

Duffers

Mysterious;

'The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen.' - Lewis Namier
It is precisely that sense that conspiracy theorists lack. Instead they have a kind of facile, adolescent knowingness, resmbling nothing like proper, ordered knowledge, let alone the kind of instinctive wisdom Namier commended.

Your posts read as though they have been dictated to a monkey high on meth, translated through babelfish, then retyped by someone who has had half their brain removed.
But of course I'm only saying that because I just shape-shifted back from my reptilian form, which always makes me kind of grouchy. :rolleyes:

Manic Moran

mysterious wrote: »

This is horrific

Wars usually are. The sooner people return to grips with this reality, the better civilisation will be, I think.

Until then, however, I guess we will have to remind the world at large by first-hand-experience.

NTM

mysterious

Duffers wrote: »

Mysterious;


Your posts read as though they have been dictated to a monkey high on meth, translated through babelfish, then retyped by someone who has had half their brain removed.
But of course I'm only saying that because I just shape-shifted back from my reptilian form, which always makes me kind of grouchy. :rolleyes:

Maybe this is how you behave, but you project it onto others in the hope they don't point the fingers at you. People like you are fairly obvious, once the finger pointing begrudgery starts.

Sort it.:)

If you like these wars, get of your butt and fight them. yeah you.

RATM

Wow a lot of muddled opinions on this thread :eek:

OP if you want to understand the war in Afghanistan then you need a good grounding in the different strains of Islam,(Political,Missionary & Jihadi), how they came about and why. You'll also need to know about the differing strains of Jihad, (Internal, Irridentist and Global) and how they compete for different objectives and how some are justified in Islam and others are not.
The International Crisis Groups paper on it is an excellent starting point- you'll have to register with them to read the whole PDF but its free.
Other than that you need to know about security paradigms, how the west is still glued to realism and its reactionary nature when it comes to external threats.

If you want some more readings on Islam and the west then PM me, I have just written a thesis on the topic for my International Relations course so I can give you some good pointers.

mysterious

Jihadism and radical Christianity are the same practically. Christianity, Islam and judasim were all created by the master pupeteers 2000 years ago. These three religions were created to rival each other and to the master pupeteers to make the world interesting:rolleyes: Conflict and polarisation creates control. The power system all use the same methods to control the world and relgion does not excape this process.

Its ironic and to my conclusion, they hold alot of the same standards and beliefs, all have simalar symobolism, they believe in the one and only god. They all condemn the other. They thrive on power and control. They are the only relgions that seem to conflict each other despite been so god damn simalr. They have prophets and the stories are even simalar. They have a messiah/christ. Its so amazing isn't it. The three relgions all have the ying yang good vs evil balony.

So amazing, that the crusades actually never ended.

Its so amazing that the taliban was created by the west. Its so amazing that Osama worked for the CIA and was head of the Taliban when they were fighting against the enemy of the US, - Russia. Its so amazing that relgion is used as an excuse for these greed and money wars. Its so amazing that Bush had links with Osama's family throughout the years. And its so amaziny that people STILL DONT GET IT.

LOOK UP THE HISTORY BEHIND THE THREE RELGIONS. LOOK AT THE FLAGS. they worship the stars, sun, moon and cross. Star of david, Sun and moon of Islam. Sirius a star that is noted in both the Koran and Bible.

It is ALL GOT TO DO WITH POWER. the relgions are used to flame the wars, so the aliens can look at us like its one of the shows, "the days of our lives"

Wayts to know what im talking about if you understand these points.

• If you believe all human life is equal
• Religion and politics are the same thing = power
• Good vs evil = deception and division
• Problem, reaction solution method
• Geo Econmoic wars between China Russia and USA over the ME.
• War does not solve conflict or create harmony
• if you understand that two wrongs dont make a right
• If you undersand hate or either side, is for a reason and by logic
• These wars are about greed and power
• If you can see that the US government and Jihadism are no different
• why people point fingers.:rolleyes:

And to recap my point incase you missed it
Be aware and dicern reality. Look around you, and question reality. Question the black and white and tease the gray area. Question what our leaders are saying regardless if they are good or bad. Question the leaders morality/hisstory/behaviour. Find out what is our responsiblility in this conflict rather than reacting and kneejerking. Learn to take responsiblity for our behaviour and not be quick to point fingers like our western governments like to do.


These wars, suit the US hegomy for their global control of the mineral recources out of the "terrorist regions"

One man got me thinking almost to the point of nearly doubting my own stance on this afghan conflict.

This is what he stated.
WHy would our government waste millions of dollars in building pipelines and taking oil/mineral from these countries, for the sake of war, when our US government can easily take recources from the moon just as easy without having to spend money on the war they use to justify their invasions. ITs like Rome all over again.

My response well your right, The superpower USA could easily take from the moon, and not have to spend trillions on war to get all these recourses and take over these countries. But the simple thing your missing is.....

If USA go to the moon, China and Russia will just take their place of taking what the USA will abandon;);)..

It's ALL ABOUT POWER guys... and nothing BUT POWER.

OS119

mysterious wrote: »

Jihadism and radical Christianity are the same practically. Christianity, Islam and judasim were all created by the master pupeteers 2000 years ago. These three religions were created to rival each other and to the master pupeteers to make the world interesting:rolleyes: Conflict and polarisation creates control. The power system all use the same methods to control the world and relgion does not excape this process.

Its ironic and to my conclusion, they hold alot of the same standards and beliefs, all have simalar symobolism, they believe in the one and only god. They all condemn the other. They thrive on power and control. They are the only relgions that seem to conflict each other despite been so god damn simalr. They have prophets and the stories are even simalar. They have a messiah/christ. Its so amazing isn't it. The three relgions all have the ying yang good vs evil balony.

So amazing, that the crusades actually never ended.

Its so amazing that the taliban was created by the west. Its so amazing that Osama worked for the CIA and was head of the Taliban when they were fighting against the enemy of the US, - Russia. Its so amazing that relgion is used as an excuse for these greed and money wars. Its so amazing that Bush had links with Osama's family throughout the years. And its so amaziny that people STILL DONT GET IT.

LOOK UP THE HISTORY BEHIND THE THREE RELGIONS. LOOK AT THE FLAGS. they worship the stars, sun, moon and cross. Star of david, Sun and moon of Islam. Sirius a star that is noted in both the Koran and Bible.

It is ALL GOT TO DO WITH POWER. the relgions are used to flame the wars, so the aliens can look at us like its one of the shows, "the days of our lives"

Wayts to know what im talking about if you understand these points.

• If you believe all human life is equal
• Religion and politics are the same thing = power
• Good vs evil = deception and division
• Problem, reaction solution method
• Geo Econmoic wars between China Russia and USA over the ME.
• War does not solve conflict or create harmony
• if you understand that two wrongs dont make a right
• If you undersand hate or either side, is for a reason and by logic
• These wars are about greed and power
• If you can see that the US government and Jihadism are no different
• why people point fingers.:rolleyes:

And to recap my point incase you missed it
Be aware and dicern reality. Look around you, and question reality. Question the black and white and tease the gray area. Question what our leaders are saying regardless if they are good or bad. Question the leaders morality/hisstory/behaviour. Find out what is our responsiblility in this conflict rather than reacting and kneejerking. Learn to take responsiblity for our behaviour and not be quick to point fingers like our western governments like to do.


These wars, suit the US hegomy for their global control of the mineral recources out of the "terrorist regions"

One man got me thinking almost to the point of nearly doubting my own stance on this afghan conflict.

This is what he stated.
WHy would our government waste millions of dollars in building pipelines and taking oil/mineral from these countries, for the sake of war, when our US government can easily take recources from the moon just as easy without having to spend money on the war they use to justify their invasions. ITs like Rome all over again.

My response well your right, The superpower USA could easily take from the moon, and not have to spend trillions on war to get all these recourses and take over these countries. But the simple thing your missing is.....

If USA go to the moon, China and Russia will just take their place of taking what the USA will abandon;);)..

It's ALL ABOUT POWER guys... and nothing BUT POWER.

its all the Lizards and the Joooos.....

fruitcake.