Protests over Gaza deaths at 5PM Today (Monday) outside Israeli Embassy..

toiletduck

Was this a bigger protest than the one all the usual groups organised for the Russian-Georgian war? Oh wait...

Eoin

Dudess wrote: »

That's the thing I keep asking Israel apologists over in Politics - to put themselves in Palestinian shoes: would they be ok with it? Strangely I haven't got an answer, apart from the odd "I wouldn't vote for a murderous government" or "I'd feel we were bringing it on ourselves". Obviously those responses are from people who aren't really putting themselves in Palestinian shoes.

What? Now you want the Israelis to take the Palestinians' shoes off them? Shame on you.

Terry

eoin wrote: »

What? Now you want the Israelis to take the Palestinians' shoes off them? Shame on you.

Ahh, sure the Iranians are throwing them away.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800453.stm

Nodin

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

However, all evidence points to an endemic barbarism no matter how much you apologise for the sheer terror that the extremists in their ranks are inflicting all across the globe.

So its no worse than any of the rest except that it is and OMG THEY'RE COMIN RIGHT AT US!!!!. Wunderbar.

The Mighty Ken

Nodin wrote: »

So its no worse than any of the rest except that it is and OMG THEY'RE COMIN RIGHT AT US!!!!. Wunderbar.

Eh? Having difficulty understanding you. Let's leave it at that shall we.

Run_to_da_hills

toiletduck wrote: »

Was this a bigger protest than the one all the usual groups organized for the Russian-Georgian war? Oh wait...

There was 250ish. Press and the usual garda presence but it went with out incident. Crowd moved from Israeli to US Embassy where there was shoe throwing at an effigy of George Bush across from the US Embassy. The US is just as much responsible for this atrocity for supplying arms to Israel.

The west bank has now become the guinea pig for testing new "smart bomb" weapons for the US and Israel. The GPS guided GBU-39 is said to be one of the most accurate bombs in the world. The 113 kg. bomb has the same penetration capabilities as a normal 900 kg. bomb, although it has only 22.7 kg. of explosives. At just 1.75 meters long, its small size increases the number of bombs an aircraft can carry and the number of targets it can attack in a sortie. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456505080&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

No better place to try them in a the most densely populated environment on the face of the planet just like picking off Goldfish out of a fish bowel. Out of the 350 that were killed MOST were innocent, those that were claimed to be members of Hamas were ordinary civil servents going about their duties just like the Gardai or Council workers.

http://www.ipsc.ie/

Canis Lupus

None of this is worse than when Brand and Ross phoned Manuel and left a phone message.

Nodin

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Eh? Having difficulty understanding you. Let's leave it at that shall we.

At the start of your post you stated

It's all nonsense to me. I'm agnostic. I wouldn't claim that any organised mass fantasy is any better or worse than any other.

and you end up....

However, all evidence points to an endemic barbarism no matter how much you apologise for the sheer terror that the extremists in their ranks are inflicting all across the globe

The Mighty Ken

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There was 250ish. Press and the usual garda presence but it went with out incident. Crowd moved from Israeli to US Embassy where there was shoe throwing at an effigy of George Bush across from the US Embassy. The US is just as much responsible for this atrocity for supplying arms to Israel.

And how many were at the Russia Georgia march? Or the Russia/Checnya march? Or the march against the Thai government? Or against the atrocities of 9/11? Or the atrocities in Pakistan? Or the... ah I won't go on. Let's just pick and choose who we want to support and stick to our guns.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The west bank has now become the guinea pig for testing new "smart bomb" weapons for the US and Israel.

No better place to try them in a the most densely populated environment on the face of the planet just like picking off Goldfish out of a fish bowel.

Brilliant! The US and Israel are using the Palestinians to 'test their new weapons'. And once they're done, I assume they get gassed in chambers, eh?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Out of the 350 that were killed MOST were innocent, those that were claimed to be members of Hamas were ordinary civil servents going about their duties just like the Gardai or Council workers.

Why, because an organisation with a blatant agenda says so? The UN, who are against Israeli action, suggest that the majority were not innocent. I'd be inclined to take their word for it.

The Mighty Ken

Nodin wrote: »

At the start of your post you stated


and you end up....

And? You're making no sense whatsoever. Let's not reply to each other anymore.

Nodin

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

And? You're making no sense whatsoever. Let's not reply to each other anymore.

Your post contradicts itself. I'm just pointing that out.

Run_to_da_hills

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

And how many were at the Russia Georgia march? Or the Russia/Checnya march? Or the march against the Thai government? Or against the atrocities of 9/11? Or the atrocities in Pakistan? Or the... ah I won't go on. Let's just pick and choose who we want to support and stick to our guns..

9/1 was an inside Job deliberately set up and used by the Global authorities to roll out microchipped embedded passports in the first step towards totalitarian control.

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Brilliant! The US and Israel are using the Palestinians to 'test their new weapons'. And once they're done, I assume they get gassed in chambers, eh?
.

Gas is too expensive these days. (Hitler committed suicide because he got the gas bill )

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Why, because an organization with a blatant agenda says so? The UN, who are against Israeli action, suggest that the majority were not innocent. I'd be inclined to take their word for it.

If Fiana Fail committed atrocities that resulted in an attack from abroad would you justify the annihilation of the Dublin civic offices, Dublin Castle, the Gardai Headquarters, ETC killing anyone in its path? Exact same thing. Any of Hamas leaders that are pulling the strings know better not to habit these places.

The Mighty Ken

Nodin wrote: »

Your post contradicts itself. I'm just pointing that out.

It doesn't. You've completely misread it and your posts are drivvel. Like I said, let's leave it at that.

The Mighty Ken

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

9/1 was an inside Job deliberately set up and used by the Global authorities to roll out microchipped embedded passports on a global scale in the first step towards totalitarian control.

Okay. Watching too much Zeitgeist methinks.

[HTML]<img src="http://www.ilovebonnie.net/tinfoil-hat.jpg&quot; />[/HTML]

This is where I bail. Good luck to you.

Run_to_da_hills

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Okay. Watching too much Zeitgeist methinks.

[HTML]<img src="http://www.ilovebonnie.net/tinfoil-hat.jpg&quot; />[/HTML]

This is where I bail. Good luck to you.

You have been watching too much television. :rolleyes:


http://www.danielmountain.com/liveleak/2005/jan/buzzsaw_files/sheeple.jpg

The Mighty Ken

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You believe watching too much television. :rolleyes:


http://www.danielmountain.com/liveleak/2005/jan/buzzsaw_files/sheeple.jpg

Sorry. You're on a higher level on consciousness than I am and you know that American bankers want to install RF chips in our brains. I wish I was as enlightened as you. Wibble wibble.

Ass

My name is Mud wrote: »

Funny thing is that if no religon existed, none of this would be happening.

Regardless of the Israeli's using excessive force, or Hamas hiding in Palenstinian civillian centres, all this bloodshed stems from religon.

Load of cock it is really.

Yeah. We should ban religion on a global scale. That will instantly solve all of the worlds problems.

OK-Cancel-Apply

About the whole left-wing/right-wing support thing - I think there are many ordinary people who don't know much about the situation, and just assume anyone who is killing Arabs is in the right, as Arabs are supposed to be freedom-hating fanatical extremists.

The truth is that Israel has always been the aggressor. Everything going on in the region can be traced back to Israeli aggression, from the formation of Hamas, to the formation of Hezbollah in Lebannon.

Without religion, sure, there's be less of a 'mask' to put over this, but in reality, the Israelis (those in top-level power at least) are just white Europeans doing what white Europeans do best - conquering far off lands and colonising them while kicking out/wiping out the natives.

The Israel lobby is the largest in the U.S. government, and that's why they have their never-ending support. The Palestinians probably would have succeeded in resisting the occupation by now, had the U.S. not been giving Israel money and free weapons, including nukes.

Like it or not, the Palestinians actually have a legal right to fire their rockets at Israel. Israel is the one violating the law, but it seems that as long as you have US support, you can do whatever you like. And it also seems that popular support will be with you too, as long as you have uniforms, fighter jets and a 'defense' minister. "Throwing bombs is bad, dropping bombs is good" it seems.

Ass

Just ban jews then.

munchester29

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

The truth is that Israel has always been the aggressor. Everything going on in the region can be traced back to Israeli aggression, from the formation of Hamas, to the formation of Hezbollah in Lebannon. .

Not true any which way you look at it.
The Jews started immigrating back to Israel in the mid 19th century. Even then they were attacked constantly by the surrounding Arabs.
The Arabs also attacked the newly formed state of Israel in 1948. The Israelis were content with just getting a place of their own.

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Like it or not, the Palestinians actually have a legal right to fire their rockets at Israel. Israel is the one violating the law, but it seems that as long as you have US support, you can do whatever you like. And it also seems that popular support will be with you too, as long as you have uniforms, fighter jets and a 'defense' minister. "Throwing bombs is bad, dropping bombs is good" it seems.

I won’t argue about the legal right – you are very wrong with this point, check international law – no justification to firing rockets or mortar shells into civilian populations under most circumstances.

In regards to popular support – this is given to the Palestinians in most cases, not to the Israelis. The reason for this is that everybody loves the underdog; in particular countries who have been underdogs themselves (Did someone just say Ireland?)
For this reason, Irish public opinion was all in favour of Israel every time in the past when they fought against incredible odds (1948 war, 1967 war, etc).
Irish and global public opinion now leans towards the Palestinians because they are the underdogs.
To the average Joe in the street it doesn’t matter what the Palestinians stand for (read the Hamas charter if you care to learn the truth), what their beliefs are, how they conduct themselves, etc.

OK-Cancel-Apply

munchester29 wrote: »

Not true any which way you look at it.
The Jews started immigrating back to Israel in the mid 19th century. Even then they were attacked constantly by the surrounding Arabs.

Jews have been peacefully immigrating to countries all over the world for as long as Judaism has existed. And they were not attacked constantly by the surrounding Arabs. There is a whole range of Zionist falsehood out there.

The whole trouble started when the Zionist terror gangs started murdering Arabs and killing British Army personnel.

The Arabs also attacked the newly formed state of Israel in 1948. The Israelis were content with just getting a place of their own.

I'm not sure what you mean - you can pick out a small slice of any conflict in history and spin it the way you want, like Northern Ireland for example. You can take any tiny piece any claim it was the Irish who 'attacked' the British or the British who 'attacked' the Irish.

You may pick 1948 because it's the year that Israel called for the world to recognise it as a real country, but that doesn't mean the conflict leading up that period never happened.

I won’t argue about the legal right – you are very wrong with this point, check international law – no justification to firing rockets or mortar shells into civilian populations under most circumstances.

Everybody has the legal right to resist a foreign occupying force.

In regards to popular support – this is given to the Palestinians in most cases, not to the Israelis. The reason for this is that everybody loves the underdog; in particular countries who have been underdogs themselves (Did someone just say Ireland?)
For this reason, Irish public opinion was all in favour of Israel every time in the past when they fought against incredible odds (1948 war, 1967 war, etc).
Irish and global public opinion now leans towards the Palestinians because they are the underdogs.
To the average Joe in the street it doesn’t matter what the Palestinians stand for (read the Hamas charter if you care to learn the truth), what their beliefs are, how they conduct themselves, etc.

I find that average Joe actually knows very little about the conflict.

wes

munchester29 wrote: »

Not true any which way you look at it.
The Jews started immigrating back to Israel in the mid 19th century. Even then they were attacked constantly by the surrounding Arabs.
The Arabs also attacked the newly formed state of Israel in 1948. The Israelis were content with just getting a place of their own.

Going to some elses country with the intention of setting up your own nation is called an invasion and tend to lead to the native having a fight with the invaders.

Also, just because the Bible says God gave them the land, is hardly something the people living there will accept or the secular Zionist excuse that there ancestors lived there over a 1000 years ago, will also not be accepted by the people living there.

Going to someone else country with the intent of setting up your own is an act of war. The Palestinians were defending themselves against invading European colonists at the time.

munchester29 wrote: »

I won’t argue about the legal right – you are very wrong with this point, check international law – no justification to firing rockets or mortar shells into civilian populations under most circumstances.

In full agreement, but there is no excuse for starving the entire population of Gaza or stealing more and more land in the West Bank either under international law. Of course this is often forgotten for some reason by some.

munchester29 wrote: »

In regards to popular support – this is given to the Palestinians in most cases, not to the Israelis. The reason for this is that everybody loves the underdog; in particular countries who have been underdogs themselves (Did someone just say Ireland?)

The US provide billions of military aid, so that Israel can brutalize the Palestinians. Popular support means nothing in the grand scheme, as long as the US give Israel a blank cheque the conflict will sadly rage.

munchester29 wrote: »

For this reason, Irish public opinion was all in favour of Israel every time in the past when they fought against incredible odds (1948 war, 1967 war, etc).
Irish and global public opinion now leans towards the Palestinians because they are the underdogs.
To the average Joe in the street it doesn’t matter what the Palestinians stand for (read the Hamas charter if you care to learn the truth), what their beliefs are, how they conduct themselves, etc.

The same can be said of Zionism, how many know about Theodre Herzi and the like the fact that they ethnically cleansed the Palestinians in 1948? How about the extremists colonists in the West Bank, who were recently spray painting "Gas the Arabs" in Hebron?

munchester29

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Jews have been peacefully immigrating to countries all over the world for as long as Judaism has existed. And they were not attacked constantly by the surrounding Arabs. There is a whole range of Zionist falsehood out there.

Link to a site that holds accounts of Arab aggression towards Israeli people (not including wars):
http://www.lindasog.com/public/terrorvictims.htm

As for the “range of Zionist falsehood” – how about “Palestinian falsehood”? have you seen any of that?

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

The whole trouble started when the Zionist terror gangs started murdering Arabs and killing British Army personnel.

Check that link again…

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean - you can pick out a small slice of any conflict in history and spin it the way you want, like Northern Ireland for example. You can take any tiny piece any claim it was the Irish who 'attacked' the British or the British who 'attacked' the Irish.

I seriously doubt you can spin it to show the Irish attacked the British…

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

You may pick 1948 because it's the year that Israel called for the world to recognise it as a real country, but that doesn't mean the conflict leading up that period never happened.

I picked 1948 because that is the year the Israeli state was created. The conflict between Jews and Arabs has existed long before that, but I don’t think you can call it a conflict. Maybe tribal or local clashes between very small groups of combetants.

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Everybody has the legal right to resist a foreign occupying force.

Not by any means though. There are very specific limitations on what is “legal” and what isn’t. Although I would agree that countries fight, usually they ignore these laws.

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

I find that average Joe actually knows very little about the conflict.

I agree completely.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I might drop over and ask the same Palestinians and their supporters the reveal the where abouts of Private Kevin Joyce (18rys old) who was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinians in Lebanon.

He is still officially the longest held captive in Lebanon.

The Palestinians know the location of his body, but refuse to divulge the information to the Irish government, or to his family.

But instead they want to use Kevin's remains as a political tool in their tussle with between the Irish government and the Israeli's.

MORE ON PTE KEVIN JOYCE.

Guys, we owe the Palestinians very, very little.

anonymous_joe

Mairt wrote: »

I might drop over and ask the same Palestinians and their supporters the reveal the where abouts of Private Kevin Joyce (18rys old) who was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinians in Lebanon.

He is still officially the longest held captive in Lebanon.

The Palestinians know the location of his body, but refuse to divulge the information to the Irish government, or to his family.

But instead they want to use Kevin's remains as a political tool in their tussle with between the Irish government and the Israeli's.

MORE ON PTE KEVIN JOYCE.

Guys, we owe the Palestinians very, very little.

But but, they like terrorists and and and we do too! We have to support them! :rolleyes:

wes

Mairt wrote: »

I might drop over and ask the same Palestinians and their supporters the reveal the where abouts of Private Kevin Joyce (18rys old) who was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinians in Lebanon.

He is still officially the longest held captive in Lebanon.

The Palestinians know the location of his body, but refuse to divulge the information to the Irish government, or to his family.

But instead they want to use Kevin's remains as a political tool in their tussle with between the Irish government and the Israeli's.

MORE ON PTE KEVIN JOYCE.

Guys, we owe the Palestinians very, very little.

So the actions of the few should be blamed on all Palestinians? Thats an interesting pov.

From the article the people who kidnapped him are neither Fatah or Hamas, but rather a smaller group, who can't be said to represent all Palestinians.

So you seem to think all Palestinians and let be honest the vast vast majority had nothing to do with that kidnapping, should be held responsible or know his bodies where abouts? Which considering we are talking about a small group, of whom there leader has been killed already, strikes me as unlikely.

Nodin

Mairt wrote: »

I might (.......)
Guys, we owe the Palestinians very, very little.

Weren't a number killed by Israel and their 'Christian militia' as well?

arybvtcw0eolkf

wes wrote: »

So the actions of the few should be blamed on Palestinians. Thats an interesting pov.

When the people representing those few know and won't reveal the where abouts of one of your fellow countrymen, then yes I can blaim the many.

anonymous_joe

Nodin wrote: »

Weren't a number killed by Israel and their 'Christian militia' as well?

Ya met many Israelis?

They've done some terrible things, but I've never met a single Israeli who didn't want peace. And never heard an Israeli suggest they wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth.

Pen1987

I've compiled a "Gaza by numbers" information block over on my blog which is open for people to add too. Anyone with an interest in adding to it feel free to put additional information in using the comments block, please include sources (to establish if the info is partisan or not). Click the signature if you want to access the post.