Why are single 30+ women portrayed as 'desperate'?

Curlypinkie

Portrayed by whom I wonder? Irish media? (yes)
Boards? (yes)
For some reason, wether we like it or not , Ireland is still very old fashioned in the way that a lot of women feel (even subconsciously) they are inferior to their age-peers if they are not in a relationship/and or having kids by the age of 30.
There should have been a (massive) ring and a white wedding, preferably also the 3 bed semi, with, or without 4 wheel drive, in some extremely dreary suburb with 1,5 kids roaming the miniature manicured garden. And all that before they hit 34. Ideally.

Now I know there are loads of women who are different. Who don't give a shyte wether that grey hair is visible or not, or wether they actualy pay for someone to put in some botox for them to still be able to pull boys 10 years their juniors, without said boys knowing they're over 25.
That's not desperate, that's enjoying your life in the way you bloody wel like to and deserve.

However, Irish media and Irish society is, still, putting a hell of a lot of pressure on the peope that I talk to anyway. And imagine it's the 21st century. We shouldn't even be having a discussion on this topic. It feels like I'm back in the 50ies sometimes, living in this country.:rolleyes:

Matt3

Dave5 wrote: »

We'd much prefer a girl in her late 30's, who's decent looking with a great personality...rather than a good looking girl in her mid 20's who's as boring as hell and is more interested in herself, with very little personality

Yep, absolutely.

I mean i'm 38 and single, give me a girl who's around my age bracket, who's a great laugh..rather than a younger girl in her mid to late 20's who's more worried about herself (...not that all girls in their mid-20's are of course, just a personal view point).

LightningBolt

I wouldn't be an avid reader of certain sections of newspapers but one thing that strikes me is the social sections in some are sometimes penned by 30 something females who seem like they have nothing better to do than waffle on about the joys of motherhood, having lunch in the fourseasons and going to random charity events. You then have that god awful show on Tv3 Xpose which does nothing more than allow women to think that it can be acceptable to care about such pointless stuff. Is there any women in media who can change the current perception of a supposed 30/40yr olds lifestyle?

Peared

I think like a lot of common perceptions of women, it exists because there is a kernal of truth there, which then gets tabloided out of all proportion.

Personally, I think the ones that do turn into loonies (which is after about 33 imo, not 30) do so because of babies. Its pure biology. Sometimes they don't even hear the clock ticking, it's just an uneasy feeling in the background that they really should settle down soon, and maybe Mr Ok could be Mr Husband cos time is running out.

I see the evidence of this around me. I have 2 friends who had kids at a very early age, both are now early 30s, with grown up kids and single. They have the same lifestyle as any single woman, and freedom to go out, meet people as the kids stay with dad at weekends. Neither are arsed about settling down. In fact, one turned down a proposal 2 years ago because she wasn't 100% sure the guy was right.

Two other friends, also in their early 30s are, being brutally honest - desperate. They scare the **** out of men. All they want is to be married. They have no children and to me, this is hugely telling.

Can you blame them though? We all know about the increased risks associated with pregnancy in older women and the fact that as you age, it becomes harder to concieve. Fertility is finite. Unfortunate but true.

Wibbs

321654 wrote: »

Im nearly 40 so can tell you what i know so far.

Almost all of my female friends who are single when they hit 34 - 35 have this weird need for the next relationship to be THE ONE. From my point of view i think wibbs is spot on in his first post in this thread. They are aware that they must settle themselves and have children.

The married ones with no kids start to feel like they want children. Even the ones who said they never wanted them or didnt care end up wanting children.

The amount of them who have gone to dating agencies at this age is unreal.

And out of all of these, when they were around 30 they swore they would never be like this.
Its instinct. That is all there is to it.

Speaking as a 41 year old bloke I would agree, though the media really adds to it. Then you do get the desperate types trying to live up to that image. I've seen men do it too. I've seen guys hit their mid 30's with the strong urge to settle down (and sadly settle for) the next woman that comes along. It does not a happy relationship make, though IMHO looking back I can think of about three actually healthy male/female romantic relationships in my life. Arse to that I say.:D I'll wait until I'm 80 or 6 feet under rather than settle for less than a good relationship. I know that as a guy I'm lucky that I can do that though, or at least have longer in the dating/mating pool to play with.

And let me tell you for both males and females, when we reach about 33 the wrinkles and weight and skin elasticity start to go downhill so fast. Look at your friends below 33 and then look at the ones above 33. You'll see it. Though it depends on the amount of makeup you have to peer through

I wouldn't agree with this bit though. I know men and women(though admittedly more men for a few biological reasons) that have no wrinkles, are not flabby and their skin doesn't look like it's fainted all the way up to 50+. How? Genes are a help, eat less than most, but good quality stuff, no take outs, be active, don't nuke yourself in the sun(why very dark skinned people don't age as rapidly. Built in sunblock) , never stop learning new things and have an active social life. Hell I've an uncle in his late 60's that hasn't a wrinkle on his face. He hates suits, so only has one for funerals and the like and he bought it in the mid 70's(went non 70's fashion wise so no mad collars;):D). It can be very easily done. You can get away with crap when you're 20, but you can't as you age so back off the crap basically.

Wibbs

Peared wrote: »

I think like a lot of common perceptions of women, it exists because there is a kernal of truth there, which then gets tabloided out of all proportion.

nail on the head.

Curlypinkie

Peared wrote: »

Fertility is finite.

Ok, are we down to the one and only reason here? That a woman's sole purpose here on earth is to have babies? I know you can't argue with our genes, but come on.

Again, that has to also be some sort of outside influence. Because not everywhere are women so rabid to concieve before it's "too late".
Women in several other countries have slightly different interest than to have babies. Even if they are in their late 30ies.

I mean, there is adoption? Or you can just get a dog.

I think that sometimes women are so selfish in putting kids into this world. It seems it's for their own pleasure and at their own whim.
Rarely do they think about the kids actual future.
It's the thought in the lines of "I want babies and I want them now" that strikes me as particularly egotistic.

Wibbs

I've run outa thanks but I agree with both of your last posts. I do think Ireland is a bloody nightmare when it comes to this stuff and I think it affects irish men and women on so many levels. TBH it's why I've gone out with so very few Irish women in the last 15 years. It's not the AH bollox about looks or any of that, it's the undercurrent in so many of "what is expected of me" etc.

Peared

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Ok, are we down to the one and only reason here? That a woman's sole purpose here on earth is to have babies? I know you can't argue with our genes, but come on.

Again, that has to also be some sort of outside influence. Because not everywhere are women so rabid to concieve before it's "too late".
Women in several other countries have slightly different interest than to have babies. Even if they are in their late 30ies.

I mean, there is adoption? Or you can just get a dog.

I think that sometimes women are so selfish in putting kids into this world. It seems it's for their own pleasure and at their own whim.
Rarely do they think about the kids actual future.
It's the thought in the lines of "I want babies and I want them now" that strikes me as particularly egotistic.

Maybe so. Really, wanting babies is always a 'selfish' decision.
I mean, you don't have them for their sake, they don't exist yet. You have them because you want them, or you want to be a family. It's the most normal selfish thing in the world.

I don't know if it's so much 'I want them now' that people are thinking as 'Oh sh*t I may never have them if I don't have them now'.

Of course it's not a womans sole purpose, but a lot of women will feel incomplete if they do not have children.

dazberry

What doesn't help 30+ single women (desperate or not) is their friends/mothers/friends mothers that seem to need to play the role of matchmaker. As a single guy in my 30s I get this all the time it just p1sses me off no end. There are girls I've never met that I know too much about because well we've so much in common - we're single! :rolleyes:. ... and dare I talk to any girl in a pub or club in front of these "friends", the snide comments and dirty looks because those girls aren't good enough or not right for me or whatever...

D.

metrovelvet

LightningBolt wrote: »

I wouldn't be an avid reader of certain sections of newspapers but one thing that strikes me is the social sections in some are sometimes penned by 30 something females who seem like they have nothing better to do than waffle on about the joys of motherhood, having lunch in the fourseasons and going to random charity events. You then have that god awful show on Tv3 Xpose which does nothing more than allow women to think that it can be acceptable to care about such pointless stuff. Is there any women in media who can change the current perception of a supposed 30/40yr olds lifestyle?

I have to agree with this as an outsider. I find it very difficult to find people who want to have anything more than superficial conversations about NOTHING!

That sad thing about those shows and the papers is that they write about it like its something to aspire to, but do not demonstrate how it adds meaning to life. Geesh, I watched Tubridy once and I really wanted to ask "Ireland, is this all you got?"

Karen_*

Thaedydal wrote: »

oh my how desperate does that look, bravo ladies.

Oh we were only flippin joking! chill

ntlbell

LightningBolt wrote: »

I wouldn't be an avid reader of certain sections of newspapers but one thing that strikes me is the social sections in some are sometimes penned by 30 something females who seem like they have nothing better to do than waffle on about the joys of motherhood, having lunch in the fourseasons and going to random charity events. You then have that god awful show on Tv3 Xpose which does nothing more than allow women to think that it can be acceptable to care about such pointless stuff. Is there any women in media who can change the current perception of a supposed 30/40yr olds lifestyle?

I really don't like the idea of blaming media.

who on earth even watches xpose?

and if that's the type of ****e that interests them i think there's a clue into why they might be single...

embee

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Ok, are we down to the one and only reason here? That a woman's sole purpose here on earth is to have babies? I know you can't argue with our genes, but come on.

Again, that has to also be some sort of outside influence. Because not everywhere are women so rabid to concieve before it's "too late".
Women in several other countries have slightly different interest than to have babies. Even if they are in their late 30ies.

I mean, there is adoption? Or you can just get a dog.

I think that sometimes women are so selfish in putting kids into this world. It seems it's for their own pleasure and at their own whim.
Rarely do they think about the kids actual future.
It's the thought in the lines of "I want babies and I want them now" that strikes me as particularly egotistic.

I wouldn't have said the desire to have children is down to some sort of "outside influence" at all. Women, generally speaking, don't have babies because other women are having them. Having children is specific to the couple of course, but as Peared said, it is essentially a "selfish" act. Outside influences? I dunno. I'm not about to go out there and have more babies because its expected of me or that its fashionable. I have a desire for more children, but that's a very personal thing and has nothing to do with anyone/anything else.

As for the "there is adoption? Or just get a dog" comment - LOL. I remember friends visiting me shortly after I'd had my daughter, and one of them came out with "Sure, it's just like having a dog really, isn't it?".

No. It really, really isn't ANYTHING like having a dog.

LightningBolt

ntlbell wrote: »

I really don't like the idea of blaming media.

who on earth even watches xpose?

and if that's the type of ****e that interests them i think there's a clue into why they might be single...

I'm not blaming the media. I'm merely saying that in this country there seems to be a certain female media personality. You look at other countries and see that there is more varied types of women in media to "aspire" to. I don't mean that in the literal sense but rather they give an indication of where women should be in their lives.

As ****e as xpose is, there's still people that watch it.

pfishfood

seahorse wrote: »

Desperate to involve themselves with a man, or so we’re told; and is there any substance to the accusation, really, is what I’m asking?

I’m a thirties woman myself and I have to say I find it a bit insulting, even though my being in a long-term relationship would preclude the label from applying to me. I guess I feel if I were to find myself single in the morning I’d suddenly be slapped with the maniac label or something.. The way that single thirties woman are portrayed you’d think they all obsessed day and night about involving themselves with a man and very little else, when the reality as far as I have seen (among the single thirties women I know personally) is that they have more on their plates to be concerning themselves with.

Having said that, this attitude must be coming from somewhere: so where? Have a handful of bunny-boiling mid-thirties women behaved in such an extreme fashion as to turn hysterical thirties-related relationship-hunting into an urban myth? Or is there any truth in the accusation that ticking biological clocks induce some sort of psychological metamorphosis around this age? Or, have the likes of 'Bridget Jones diary' done more harm in the attitudes they generate than any good from the entertainment they provide?

For me personally, I was far more in need of the security of a relationship in my early twenties. Now that I’ve grown up a bit and left a lot of mental baggage behind, my relationship is a welcome addition to my life; it complements rather than defines it. As for my biological clock, at nearly thirty-three I’m sure it is ticking loud and clear, not that I would know as I couldn’t be arsed listening to it.

So for the women reading this who’ve ever found themselves single in their thirties: did anything change at this age for you or have single thirties women been unjustifiably labeled? And for the men who’ve dated women of all ages: did you enjoy those relationships or was there any discernable difference in dating thirties+ women that would lead you to believe there’s any substance to the ‘desperate’ perception?

Some women would probably be labeled for all of the above, but not every woman. Some are workaholics and don't get like that till their 40's. But this makes for a good discussion thread. Some guys can get a little desperate in their 30's too but you dont hear them giving out plus it makes for good tv.

What is wrong with settling like?
Marraige/Creating a ginger baby producing alliance is supposed to be the start of growing into a family. Not an end in of itself.
Why is it a good thing to aspire to chose "The 100% perfect one for me" over having a family? If that is what it is coming down to.
Isn't the point of family unconditional acceptance?

ntlbell

LightningBolt wrote: »

I'm not blaming the media. I'm merely saying that in this country there seems to be a certain female media personality. You look at other countries and see that there is more varied types of women in media to "aspire" to. I don't mean that in the literal sense but rather they give an indication of where women should be in their lives.

As ****e as xpose is, there's still people that watch it.

I don't really understand the point, why do women need people in media to tell them where they should be?

People should be living their own lives and not worrying about what people around them or people in the media or doing.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs if people need to look to women in media to see how they should live their own lives

that's pretty damn insulting I'd have said

Wibbs

It's not just women who do it. We're a social animal and the media is just an extension of the societal pressures that have always existed. As societal pressures don't just spring from nowhere, same with media. Much of it is our biology coming out by a circuitous route. Take anti wrinkle creams. Yes they have some for men now, but they're not exactly flying off the shelves. The womens ones do. Now it's a very artificially raised need, but the need exists and the advertisers plug into it. As I wrote before, most of what constitutes female reproductive attractiveness is down to youth signals. Clearly wrinkles are not youth signals so anything that will reduce those signals is jumped upon as that increases your chances of getting a higher value partner.

In men reproductive attractiveness is much less to do with signals of youth, much more to do with signals of social power and the advertisers and society pressures plug that more. Look at ads aimed at blokes. Loads of stuff about male authenticity and power and strength. Car ads are a freudian wet dream:D Again having those things increases your chances of getting a higher value partner.

A young looking fit good looking women will not have a shortage of suitors. Same goes for a socially powerful fit man. Looks and youth will help with the latter, but not nearly to the same degree as in women.

We are all influenced by this stuff around us, some more obviously than others, but still influenced. Precious few people don't plug into this. You see this everywhere. Even "alternative" types. They look like all the other alternative types. Truly alternative people are quite rare. Nothing wrong with that either.

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

It's not just women who do it. We're a social animal and the media is just an extension of the societal pressures that have always existed. As societal pressures don't just spring from nowhere, same with media. Much of it is our biology coming out by a circuitous route. Take anti wrinkle creams. Yes they have some for men now, but they're not exactly flying off the shelves. The womens ones do. Now it's a very artificially raised need, but the need exists and the advertisers plug into it. As I wrote before, most of what constitutes female reproductive attractiveness is down to youth signals. Clearly wrinkles are not youth signals so anything that will reduce those signals is jumped upon as that increases your chances of getting a higher value partner.

In men reproductive attractiveness is much less to do with signals of youth, much more to do with signals of social power and the advertisers and society pressures plug that more. Look at ads aimed at blokes. Loads of stuff about male authenticity and power and strength. Car ads are a freudian wet dream:D Again having those things increases your chances of getting a higher value partner.

A young looking fit good looking women will not have a shortage of suitors. Same goes for a socially powerful fit man. Looks and youth will help with the latter, but not nearly to the same degree as in women.

We are all influenced by this stuff around us, some more obviously than others, but still influenced. Precious few people don't plug into this. You see this everywhere. Even "alternative" types. They look like all the other alternative types. Truly alternative people are quite rare. Nothing wrong with that either.

I can understand the influences for young folk but surley when you reach your mid 20's early 30's etc you're educated enough to find role models in places that go beyond sex and the city and other media tripe?

I thought it was one of the advantages of been "old" you see through most of the nonsense?

I didn't think you had to be an "alternative" type to work out for yourself what makes you happy and what you want to get out of life.

We're not dealing with emo teenagers here these are grown women/men.

AARRRGH

I think there is a lot of projecting going on here. You know, people who aren't very pretty saying looks don't matter, and people who are pretty saying they do.

The reality is we all get "uglier" as we age. We can fight it with botox and more gym time, but it's only a matter of time before aging wins.

Women and men are different: women are considered more valuable if they're pretty, and men are considered more valuable if they're rich. As women and men age, women lose their prettiness and men (generally) get richer. Also, men can have babies whenever they want; women only have a set amount of time.

This makes ageing for women a much greater issue, and explains why women in their 30's get a lot more desperate for a relationship as time is running out - both for their looks and fertility.

I accept there is a certain social pressure to live your life a certain way, but you're a retard if you take that stuff on board. The media/world have nothing to do with how you feel or live your life - only you create and control your emotions.

PS I think a lot of people here think the average person is like the average boards.ie user. That's just wrong.

EDIT: In my experience, ugly and fat people are way angrier than the average person, so I disagree completely with the whole "ugly people have better personalities" crap some people are saying.

ntlbell

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think there is a lot of projecting going on here. You know, people who aren't very pretty saying looks don't matter, and people who are pretty saying they do.

The reality is we all get "uglier" as we age. We can fight it with botox and more gym time, but it's only a matter of time before aging wins.

Women and men are different: women are considered more valuable if they're pretty, and men are considered more valuable if they're rich. As women and men age, women lose their prettiness and men (generally) get richer. Also, men can have babies whenever they want; women only have a set amount of time.

This makes ageing for women a much greater issue, and explains why women in their 30's get a lot more desperate for a relationship as time is running out - both for their looks and fertility.

I accept there is a certain social pressure to live your life a certain way, but you're a retard if you take that stuff on board. The media/world have nothing to do with how you feel or live your life - only you create and control your emotions.

PS I think a lot of people here think the average person is like the average boards.ie user. That's just wrong.

EDIT: In my experience, ugly and fat people are way angrier than the average person, so I disagree completely with the whole "ugly people have better personalities" crap some people are saying.

lol say it how you see it man, don't hold back lol

Do you think the average boards.ie user is more like your problematic flat mate?

AARRRGH

ntlbell wrote: »

lol say it how you see it man, don't hold back lol

No one can ever accuse me of not being honest.

(I'm like this in the real world too).

ntlbell wrote: »

Do you think the average boards.ie user is more like your problematic flat mate?

Well, considering the amount of people who replied saying "you're describing me", I think they might be...

Btw, it's funny you brought her up. I was planning on posting in that thread with an update... she's gotten a lot worse...

Wibbs

AARRRGH wrote: »

The reality is we all get "uglier" as we age. We can fight it with botox and more gym time, but it's only a matter of time before aging wins.

Women and men are different: women are considered more valuable if they're pretty, and men are considered more valuable if they're rich. As women and men age, women lose their prettiness and men (generally) get richer. Also, men can have babies whenever they want; women only have a set amount of time.

This makes ageing for women a much greater issue, and explains why women in their 30's get a lot more desperate for a relationship as time is running out - both for their looks and fertility.

Pretty much sums it up.

I accept there is a certain social pressure to live your life a certain way, but you're a retard if you take that stuff on board. The media/world have nothing to do with how you feel or live your life - only you create and control your emotions.

Yes and no, I do think that people need(for want of a better word) "guidance". While ultimately, yes one creates and controls ones own emotions, they do not spring from a vacuum. They spring from the society around one, in both obvious and subtle ways. Certainly with age, that connection is less knee jerk and obvious when compared to a teenager seeking a path for him or herself, but it's still there. The most apparently basic hunter gatherer societies have surprisingly similar values and pressures.

PS I think a lot of people here think the average person is like the average boards.ie user. That's just wrong.

I agree with this very much. Boards is not representative of the wider world. It's quite a particular demographic, depending on forum, but in general it is quite particular. It's what interests me personally tbh. It's beginning to get to a more representative place slowly. The influx of women is helping for a start, but I wonder will it ever be generally representative and if it does, how long will it hold?

EDIT: In my experience, ugly and fat people are way angrier than the average person, so I disagree completely with the whole "ugly people have better personalities" crap some people are saying.

In extremes yes I would tend to agree. If you're pretty or good looking and constantly valued for that, you do have an easier time. When young at least. That does change with time though.

AARRRGH

AARRRGH wrote: »

EDIT: In my experience, ugly and fat people are way angrier than the average person, so I disagree completely with the whole "ugly people have better personalities" crap some people are saying.

Hence the choice of username?

AARRRGH

Moonbaby wrote: »

Hence the choice of username?

I like the sound my username makes.

PS I'm good looking. Sorry!

ntlbell

AARRRGH wrote: »

I like the sound my username makes.

PS I'm good looking. Sorry!

I thought it was fitting for a coder, you lot make that sound a lot

even the pretty ones..;)

metrovelvet

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't really understand the point, why do women need people in media to tell them where they should be?

People should be living their own lives and not worrying about what people around them or people in the media or doing.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs if people need to look to women in media to see how they should live their own lives

that's pretty damn insulting I'd have said

Because people like to be dominated. They like being told what to do,how to dress, how to raise your kids,how to clean your house. That's why these trinny and suzannah shows and clean your house shows and nanny shows are so successful.

ntlbell

metrovelvet wrote: »

Because people like to be dominated. They like being told what to do,how to dress, how to raise your kids,how to clean your house. That's why these trinny and suzannah shows and clean your house shows and nanny shows are so successful.

People who watch that sort of nonsense might do.
Those type of morons are usually morons regardless of what's on TV

They watch it because they're morons, they're not morons from the results of watching it.

But not all men and women are at home watching that crap trying to learn how they should be living their lives.

metrovelvet

^ A lot of people watch it, are they all morons?

And aside from that - where do you or most people get their notions on how to dress? What jeans to buy? What colours to where? Usually from other people.. usually celebrities or magazines.

The hardest thing in the world is to be you. Do not underestimate our capacity for mimicry. I have said this in different contexts over and over again and Im saying it here.