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Why are single 30+ women portrayed as 'desperate'?

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    #242
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    CDfm wrote: »
    Men are different. A guy can be defined by the football team he supports or his car and many things women look on as silly.

    Anyone who defines themselves or others by a football team or a car is frankly, a spanner.
    For guys -the pressure to procreate aint so great. Women have peer pressure and extended family pressure to join the mother club. A guy will still be a guy without kids.

    You should meet my mother.
    Im going out on a limb here - but there is an added attraction in being a Mum of giving up work and the whole social scene that goes with it. Go to any shopping centre on a morning and see women with babies socialising over coffee. That has its attractions -certainly does.

    That is a hugely shakey limb you are on there and i don't think you need me to point out the error in that statement.

    Making an assumption about someones life based on a quick viewing of them is pointless.

    You have obviously been in these places at these times, you must have a cushy life?:)


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    #243
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Dragan wrote: »
    Anyone who defines themselves or others by a football team or a car is frankly, a spanner.



    You should meet my mother.



    That is a hugely shakey limb you are on there and i don't think you need me to point out the error in that statement.

    Making an assumption about someones life based on a quick viewing of them is pointless.

    You have obviously been in these places at these times, you must have a cushy life?:)
    Dragan - I am giving low rent examples of guys just to make it easier to follow.

    I am trying not to give stereotypes just to see if women posting want to say what their motivation for children is. I do think that not working is hugely more attractive then working and the social life is pretty good. I know we are now in recession so I wonder if this option will be less viable.So sorry about the shakieness of the limb.

    And - I must know - did your Mother want a girl:cool:


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    #244
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    CDfm wrote: »
    I do think that not working is hugely more attractive then working and the social life is pretty good.

    It's not and with the recession it is going to get for a lot or people worse so.
    CDfm wrote: »
    I know we are now in recession so I wonder if this option will be less viable.

    Actually birth rates go up when there is a recession and with the rising cost of
    creche and child care fees I reckon we will see more women having to quit work and stay at home as the difference per week between working and not working after all the expenses are paid for will be not worth it and many will have a second or third child as the excuse or figure why the hell not as they are going to be at home.

    Really I think now is a good time to invest in shares in valium and wine importers as there are a lot of women who will find themselves isolated at home with out the family and community supports their mother's and grandmother's had.


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    #245
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    CDfm wrote: »
    And - I must know - did your Mother want a girl:cool:

    I doubt it, by the time i came along there was an older brother and sister, and a younger sister would follow, so they got an even split.:pac:

    Interestingly they also have a grandchild, with two more on the way and still my mother looks to me to provide more!

    Why? I imagine it is as simple as my Mother and Father getting great happiness from having and raising children and sending them out into the world and my Mother associates that happiness as something she would like me to experience, thats about it.


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    #246
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Dragan wrote: »
    I doubt it, by the time i came along there was an older brother and sister, and a younger sister would follow, so they got an even split.:pac:

    Interestingly they also have a grandchild, with two more on the way and still my mother looks to me to provide more!

    Why? I imagine it is as simple as my Mother and Father getting great happiness from having and raising children and sending them out into the world and my Mother associates that happiness as something she would like me to experience, thats about it.


    Or maybe she figures it will settle you down and make you mature in a different way :p


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    #247
    shellyboo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    CDfm wrote: »
    I do think that not working is hugely more attractive then working and the social life is pretty good.

    Your problem lies in thinking that being a full-time mother and homemaker is "not working". Which is hugely offensive, actually.

    Also, there's far more of a social life involved with any job you'd care to mention than there is with being a Mum. With work, you're in the office with grown-ups all day long, with plenty of opportunity to make plans, and there's usually some sort of going-away drinks or lunches or parties going on... unless you actually know other full-time mums, the 'social life' (as you call it) is going to be fairly limited.

    And furthermore, exactly how relaxing do you think it is to bring a child or children to a coffee shop or shopping centre?? It's the equivalent of going to a bar and bringing all your office paperwork with you, essentially. You're still on the job, you just happen to be in a social setting.


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    #248
    SarahSassy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭SarahSassy


    The bottom line is that some women would rather not work outside the home. Some for family reasons and some because they don’t like work – that much is true but a lot of men don’t like work either but don’t have the choice to stay at home cos generally (given the f’ked up nature of the working environment in this country), the men earn more than women.

    I am not too fond of my work right now but would be slow to give it up to stay at home all day with the kids. My Mother never ‘worked outside the home’ (to be uber PC) but she had a great support network and had her friends and family around to help out… It was safer for kids to go out and play then and it was less of a pressure cooker on a day to day basis… That why it was easier to have more kids back then.

    The ideal of going to a Yummy Mummy coffee morning bores me to tears. As it is, all my sprogged up friends talk about little else and its of limited interest to me and cant imagine that would change even if it were my own…

    You can’t generalise. There are lazy Mothers, maternal Mothers and some for financial reasons who would not make sense to go to work after paying childcare….

    Your latest comments are really underlining your immaturity and lack of any experience of this topic.
    :o


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    #249
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Or maybe she figures it will settle you down and make you mature in a different way :p

    Oh god i hope not!!!

    She will not be getting any grand kids from me i fear!


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    #250
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    shellyboo wrote: »
    unless you actually know other full-time mums, the 'social life' (as you call it) is going to be fairly limited.

    And even if you do that doesn't mean you are going to all be gal pals
    and get along. Seriously while I may mod the parenting forum for the
    most part when I get out and away from my kids I am not going to spend
    my time talking about them, hated mother and toddler groups went for
    the sake of my kids while all the time trying not to have my brain dribble
    out my ears or my blood pressure hike at an hour spent talking about nappy rash and eastenders.


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    #251
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Dragan wrote: »
    Oh god i hope not!!!

    :D


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    #252
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    CDfm wrote: »
    For guys -the pressure to procreate aint so great. Women have peer pressure and extended family pressure to join the mother club. A guy will still be a guy without kids.
    Yes he will still be a single guy .

    Another thing to remember is some guys like some womon are just not cut out to be dads and a lot of single men like women will never get the chance to find out either way .That may be a good thing for many .


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    #253
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I dunno. It depends. My dad was nearly 50 when I came along and I have a (great)uncle who didnt start a family until he was 58. He has 3 kids now. The last was when he was 64. Another was 52. Yet another was 50. I can think of a few men like that, who either started new families at later stages or had second families. It really does depend on the man in question.
    If you look at that link posted by SS, the results came from fertility clinics. That's like going to a hospital and finding out the strangely shocking result that most people in hospitals are sick. Ignoble prize ahoy.

    Yes a man's fertility is likely to drop with age. That's obvious to the point of Duuuh, but it isn't as obviously clearcut as women's. Even with women it's not clearcut. Women over the age of 25 are technically on the slippery slope, hell their peak apparnetly passes by at 18/19, yet I know women who've had perfectly healthy kids at 40.

    True. Both my grandmothers only started having kids in their 30s and had them well into their 40s. I heard of a woman the other day who got unexpectedly pregnant and is nearly 50. I'm sure they're not the only ones.

    Fair point about about that study. However, the age-related decline in male fertility - and quality of sperm - has been highlighted by a good few studies. Here are a few more links. Unf you might not be able to read the whole articles without membership of science direct etc. but you should be able to read the abstracts. Try here and here.


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    #254
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    CDfm wrote: »
    Men are different. A guy can be defined by the football team he supports or his car and many things women look on as silly.

    For guys -the pressure to procreate aint so great. Women have peer pressure and extended family pressure to join the mother club. A guy will still be a guy without kids.

    Wow, how offensive! A woman will still be a woman without kids, believe it or not. And peer pressure/family pressure aren't really great reasons for bringing a kid into the world.
    CDfm wrote: »
    Im going out on a limb here - but there is an added attraction in being a Mum of giving up work and the whole social scene that goes with it. Go to any shopping centre on a morning and see women with babies socialising over coffee. That has its attractions -certainly does.

    As someone else said, you seem to be confusing being a stay-at-home parent with not doing any work. While I think a lot of people would like not to have to work I doubt as many would like being trapped in the house with screaming babies all day. Personally the thought of something happening whereby I would have to give up work REALLY puts me off having kids. Not because I like work, I avoid it as much as possible ;), but because work = money = freedom and independence. It's also access to a world outside the walls of your house. I really can't see that many women having kids just so they can sit around drinking coffee in a shopping centre. Your ideas on what motivates women and how women think in general are very strange.


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    #255
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    latchyco wrote: »
    Yes he will still be a single guy .

    Another thing to remember is some guys like some womon are just not cut out to be dads and a lot of single men like women will never get the chance to find out either way .That may be a good thing for many .
    Not nesscessarily I know several childfree couples who have made the lifestyle choice.

    Are you suggesting childfree is selfish and should condemn someone to a single life.


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    #256
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    CDfm wrote: »
    Not nesscessarily I know several childfree couples who have made the lifestyle choice.

    Are you suggesting childfree is selfish and should condemn someone to a single life.
    Not at all , I already mentioned in the thread that singldom is an individual choice and good luck to anybody who choose's the single /child free life or the single parent life .Parenthood is not for everybody and some people should not have kids ,plain and simple .The recent child abuse / murder case's spell that out .


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    #257
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Doghouse wrote: »
    As someone else said, you seem to be confusing being a stay-at-home parent with not doing any work. While I think a lot of people would like not to have to work I doubt as many would like being trapped in the house with screaming babies all day. Personally the thought of something happening whereby I would have to give up work REALLY puts me off having kids. Not because I like work, I avoid it as much as possible ;), but because work = money = freedom and independence. It's also access to a world outside the walls of your house. I really can't see that many women having kids just so they can sit around drinking coffee in a shopping centre. Your ideas on what motivates women and how women think in general are very strange.

    To be fair to cdfm I have heard women over the years in work say something very similar usually when a co worker has a baby.

    I'm sure there's lots of women who would rather be at home minding their kids than been at work. I'm sure there's many women who can't wait to hand their kid to some stranger in a creche to get back to the gossip in work

    different strokes for different folks but to say that women dont think like cdfm says SOME do


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    #258
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Doghouse wrote: »
    Wow, how offensive! A woman will still be a woman without kids, believe it or not. And peer pressure/family pressure aren't really great reasons for bringing a kid into the world.



    As someone else said, you seem to be confusing being a stay-at-home parent with not doing any work. While I think a lot of people would like not to have to work I doubt as many would like being trapped in the house with screaming babies all day. Personally the thought of something happening whereby I would have to give up work REALLY puts me off having kids. Not because I like work, I avoid it as much as possible ;), but because work = money = freedom and independence. It's also access to a world outside the walls of your house. I really can't see that many women having kids just so they can sit around drinking coffee in a shopping centre. Your ideas on what motivates women and how women think in general are very strange.

    I am not trying to be offensive so what do you define as offensive here.I am a guy posting a guys eye view. I know guys who dump broody women and it may not be pc but women of other nationalities other than irish women make that choice.

    40 or 50 years ago the economic structure and pay structures allowed couples to marry and the wife "retire" from work. Pay rates nowdays dont allow for this. So the wifes salary is essentioal to their viability.

    I dont have any ideas on what motivates women to become mothers and put themselves under such pressure. I was hoping you could tell me.What would make you give up your lifestyle and your money etc to be a Mum.


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    #259
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    ntlbell wrote: »
    To be fair to cdfm I have heard women over the years in work say something very similar usually when a co worker has a baby.

    I'm sure there's lots of women who would rather be at home minding their kids than been at work. I'm sure there's many women who can't wait to hand their kid to some stranger in a creche to get back to the gossip in work

    Yeah but cdfm's comment was not that the attraction was in staying at home with your kids, but that women were attracted to being mothers so they could stop working. That's how it read to me anyway. Speaking of how things read, do you mean to be disapproving of women who choose to leave their kids in a creche and go back to work?
    ntlbell wrote: »
    different strokes for different folks but to say that women dont think like cdfm says SOME do

    To be fair to cdfm, if I met women who thought like that I'd think it strange too. Also I wasn't just referring to that post.


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    #260
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    CDfm wrote: »
    I am trying not to give stereotypes

    I have to ask-do you actually know what the word stereotype means? Because every post you've made in this thread has been a giant ignorant stereotype that offends either men or women or both, and yet you still persist and still claim that this is not your intention. Please, stop giving your "guys eyes views", stop telling us about your friends as if these examples hold true for everyone, bring your posts back to your personal experience (because they aren't anything more) and admit they are only the experience of one quite odd man, stop speaking for men, and about women for men. Thank you.

    CDfm wrote: »

    40 or 50 years ago the economic structure and pay structures allowed couples to marry and the wife "retire" from work. Pay rates nowdays dont allow for this. So the wifes salary is essentioal to their viability.
    I think the term you meant to use to describe the economic and pay structures was "gender discrimination". If you think that young mothers or wives were retiring out of choice then you really are more deluded than I thought.


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    #261
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Doghouse wrote: »
    Yeah but cdfm's comment was not that the attraction was in staying at home with your kids, but that women were attracted to being mothers so they could stop working. That's how it read to me anyway. Speaking of how things read, do you mean to be disapproving of women who choose to leave their kids in a creche and go back to work?
    To be fair to cdfm, if I met women who thought like that I'd think it strange too. Also I wasn't just referring to that post.

    Part of the attraction seems to be not having to "work" and when I say work I don't mean the "work" one has to do when being a parent I mean the 9-5 thing I'm not saying that's for all women but it seems to be in a vast majority of cases.

    I don't think a child be brought up by a stranger in a creche, I'm not disaproving of women who do it I'm disaproving of parents who do it.

    Be it the mother or the father I think at least untill they start school at least one parent should be there the thought of random strangers rasing ones kids is pretty sickening to me.


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    #262
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    CDfm wrote: »
    I am not trying to be offensive so what do you define as offensive here.I am a guy posting a guys eye view. I know guys who dump broody women and it may not be pc but women of other nationalities other than irish women make that choice.

    What struck me as offensive was your remark that a guy will still be a guy even if he doesn't have kids. The implication seemed to be that a woman will not still be a woman if she doesn't have kids.
    CDfm wrote: »
    40 or 50 years ago the economic structure and pay structures allowed couples to marry and the wife "retire" from work. Pay rates nowdays dont allow for this. So the wifes salary is essentioal to their viability.

    I'd say that's true for the middle classes that 40 or 50 years ago women could (or in some cases *had to*) quit work to bring up their family but in poorer families it was perfectly common for both parents to work. Having the luxury of one parent being able to stay at home is a relatively recent thing, which didn't last very long. It's unfortunate for women or men who want to stay at home with their kids, definitely.
    CDfm wrote: »
    I dont have any ideas on what motivates women to become mothers and put themselves under such pressure. I was hoping you could tell me.What would make you give up your lifestyle and your money etc to be a Mum.

    I'm the last person to be able to give you a definite answer on that. I can't fully understand it either - the lifestyle part particularly. I suppose a time just comes when you're ready for a lifestyle change...or there's an 'accident' and you go ahead with the pregnancy. It's because I don't get it myself that I listen so much to other people explanations of why they wanted kids - and that's why I was saying I've never heard of anyone saying they'd have kids so they could give up work.


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    #263
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    ntlbell wrote: »
    Part of the attraction seems to be not having to "work" and when I say work I don't mean the "work" one has to do when being a parent I mean the 9-5 thing I'm not saying that's for all women but it seems to be in a vast majority of cases.

    I don't think a child be brought up by a stranger in a creche, I'm not disaproving of women who do it I'm disaproving of parents who do it.

    Be it the mother or the father I think at least untill they start school at least one parent should be there the thought of random strangers rasing ones kids is pretty sickening to me.

    I don't want to drag this thread (any further) off-topic so just gonna say that's fair enough but personally I'd disagree.


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    #264
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Doghouse wrote: »
    I don't want to drag this thread (any further) off-topic so just gonna say that's fair enough but personally I'd disagree.

    with what?


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    #265
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    ntlbell wrote: »
    with what?

    Being disapproving of parents who leave their children in a creche.


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    #266
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Doghouse wrote: »
    Being disapproving of parents who leave their children in a creche.

    You can always start a thread on it if you wanted :pac:


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    #267
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Doghouse wrote: »
    What struck me as offensive was your remark that a guy will still be a guy even if he doesn't have kids. The implication seemed to be that a woman will not still be a woman if she doesn't have .

    In this its hard to avoid generalisations of some sortand I am sorry if my observations arent coached in pc terms. I have a friend who at 34 is just married and is under intense pressure to become a mother. Mostly from her female relatives. Thats peer pressure that guys dont get.


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    #268
    Doghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Doghouse


    ntlbell wrote: »
    You can always start a thread on it if you wanted :pac:

    Ha! Noooo, I'm not biting. I've had this argument too many times. It always ends in stalemate/agreeing to disagree/people from both sides walking off in huffs in the pub :rolleyes:


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    #269
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    CDfm wrote: »
    40 or 50 years ago the economic structure and pay structures allowed couples to marry and the wife "retire" from work.

    They were forced to leave thier jobs when they got married, bit of a difference there.


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    #270
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    They were forced to leave thier jobs when they got married, bit of a difference there.
    I am not posting for a debate on the rights and wrongs simply pointing out that couples need 2 salaries to win nowdays.


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    #271
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    CDfm wrote: »
    I am not posting for a debate on the rights and wrongs simply pointing out that couples need 2 salaries to win nowdays.

    That's not what you said at all, you were claiming that women retired out of choice to raise a family, whereas the reality as I already pointed out on the previous page was that gender discrimination inherent in the state forced them to give up their careers.


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