North Irland

DutchStudent

getz wrote: »

to find out how and why you will need to look on the education and the religious system of the schools; in the republic most of the teaching in schools is done by the catholic church this teaches a anti /british view[before every one starts shouting i went to school in the republic-]even to the stage that football is not aloud because its looked on as british; in the north all republicians are looked on as a enemy[untill recently the republic still laid claim to the north] the answer ?change the education systems and wait another 20 years----i am male and i am 68 years old

could you answer these questions please
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future
in advance

mike65

Name: mike65
Age: 43
Gender: male

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

What did I think of the troubles (as far as I'm concerned they ended with the Good Friday Agreement)? They were 30 years of murderous destruction which could have ended much sooner (ie 1973 with the Sunningdale Agreement). In terms of my life the troubles was background noise.

2. was there a lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

Not in my school particularly, but I did not go to a Catholic/nationalist school.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

RTE (the national tv/radio station) would show every funeral, eventually you stop noticing. It was of course in all media but as I said above it becomes background noise eventually.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland.

Nothing much, things are much better, people now live under the laws of an agreement and there is little to complain about.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

The issue of Nothern Ireland was matter for the UK first and Republic of Ireland second, the EU could have not legal power to interveen nor should it have. The rest of the world had plenty of its own troubles to deal with I think!

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
catholics?

No, the conflict in Northern Ireland was about national identity not religion.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?

They are solved, there will never be return to the old days.

9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future.

Good question, as long as a majority want to remain within the United Kingdom that will not change. If Northern Ireland and the Republic were to merge into a new country that would require a vote to be passed in both states.

getz

DutchStudent wrote: »

could you answer these questions please
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future
in advance

1 just daft, 2 no,3 i worked in security in manchester during the bombings,4 no; 5 northern ireland has its own goverment its not for me to tell them how to run there country, 6 nothing to do with the EU ,7 religion,8 stop religion in schools , 9 its as much about what happens in the republic as much as the north

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

is it true that the protestants army every day/week/moth paraded around the catholic district

I think what you are talking about is the Orange Order which is basically the same as the Ku Klux Klan in the southern states of America, a supemascist organisation developed by britain since the late 1700's to intimadate nationalists in Ireland - though nowadays tries to pass itself off as a ' cultural ' society. They have an incredible 2000 marches from April to September to ' celebrate ' the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 when the gay* Dutch King William of Orange, supported by the Pope, defeated the English King James on the 12th July 1690.

The Orange Order effectively ran the north from 1922 to 1969 the start of the troubles when the british were forced to close it's parliament in Belfast and run the north from London. All of the six prime ministers of Northern Ireland were members of the Order, as were all but three cabinet ministers until 1969. To give you an idea how much control this supremascist organisation had this is what Sir James Craig, Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, in 1934 had to say "I have always said I am an Orangeman first and a politician and Member of Parliament afterwards".

On July 12, 1996, Robert Saulters the leader of it ( called the Grand Master, just like the KKK who have a Grand Wizard ) told the Orange Order, that British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, " has already sold his birthright by marrying a Romanist. He would sell his soul to the devil himself. He is not loyal to his religion. He is a turncoat " ("Romanist" is Orange-speak for a Catholic. Mrs. Blair is a Catholic)........Lovely people aren't they.

DutchStudent wrote: »

and that an employer can not only hire Protestant people but also catholics and that this must be well divided

Yes the british were forced to introduce tough anti discrimmination laws as mentioned by DublinDes thanks to the McBride principles in America threatening discriminating employers business with the States and the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

Camelot wrote: »

Sounds like your opinions have already been tainted formed :cool:

This is what I was trying to warn you about.

Maybe you could have given him a bit of insight into the Orange Order and it's role in the north instead of accusing him of having his opinions tainted. But is that just the unionist coming out of you Camelot ??

dlofnep

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

the questions:
1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)
2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention
3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where
4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'
5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland
6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?
7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how
8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other
9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

Name:John/Seán
Age: 26
Gender: Male (I hope)


1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

It's a simple question for something that has such a broad answer. The troubles were a culmination of civil rights injustices to the Irish people, and a conflict of political views between nationalists and unionists about the direction of the North, and the governance of it. It was a regrettable page in Irish history, which saw communities divided and needless people dieing. I still however firmly place the large part of the blame for these troubles on the British Government and British forces, for their injustices against the Irish people and collusion with loyalist terrorists.


2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

When I was in school (finished nearly 9 years ago now) - The only time we would discuss the troubles was in History class. Irish History was always a fascinating subject for me - and I like many would grow angry more and more each day as we listened to the disturbing acts against the Irish people by the British Government/forces.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

I am only 26, so I didn't get to see the real troubles first-hand. I was born in 1982, however many of my family members were Republicans at heart, so Irish politics in terms of the North was often discussed.

Most of my education on the North, prior to self-study - came through History class in school, and documentaries on television. It wasn't until a few years ago that I ventured up to Belfast to see the North first-hand for myself. By then, the communities were alot more stabilised - However, there was still and there is still a rift. Nationalists will be nationalists, and unionists will be unionists.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

Nobody was a victim. The only personal in my family that was involved in the Irish struggle was my Great-Grandfather, who was a serving and proud member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

Which prime minister? Ireland's is referred to as a Taoiseach. I have no desire to speak to our current Taoiseach about the North.. But I would ask why his party has become passive on the issue and the current views on the North. I would like to see the Irish Government develop a practical plan on enticing Irish Unity.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

Absolutely. British rule in Ireland has been from the very get-go, an injustice against the Irish people. While we have always received solidarity from many people, in many countries across the world - we have not received solidarity from many Governments.

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

Their only difference to me is faith. It's a complex question. Protestants are in most part, unionist - and catholics are in most part nationalist. However, you will find protestant nationalists and catholic unionists. I don't categorize the people of the North by religion, but rather by political views.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

Peace and understanding. However, nationalists North and South will always aspire for Irish Unity. Unionists will always want keep ties with Britain. It will be hard to please both communities, but as a Republican - I would like to see Ireland re-united and a development plan made by our Government on how to welcome unionists and accommodate them into a new and multi-cultured Ireland.

9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

At some point, I vision Ireland will be re-united. But before that happens, stability must be preserved. It's hard to envision how the North will be tomorrow, let alone in 20 or 30 years. Political differences however will always remain apart of the North. Even 100 years from now.

Erin Go Brath

DutchStudent wrote: »

Well my friend isn't online anymore so I will post a couple of questions. we are Dutch student and we are meaking a report about North Irland and the 'troubles'. So please answer our questions because we need it very much!
If some of you want to answer it private whit an email. I apologise for the fact our english isn't good. Thanks in advance

to begin we need some information about you:
Name:
Age:
Gender:

Age: 34
Gender: Male

DutchStudent wrote: »

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

They are a result of British misrule in Ireland, and a mistreatment of the Nationalist (mostly Catholic) people by the British Government and Unionist (mostly Protestant) forces such as the police.

DutchStudent wrote: »

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

No, the troubles have simmered down at the moment so its not in the news as much as before.

DutchStudent wrote: »

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where

No, from the south. Used to be regularly on the news.

DutchStudent wrote: »

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No

DutchStudent wrote: »

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

I would say to him he needs to remove the 5,000 British soldiers from the north of Ireland and begin a phased handover of the 6 counties back to Irish rule within the next 10 years.

DutchStudent wrote: »

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

Yes. Britain is a powerful country with a lot of friends so they got away with many crimes in Ireland.

DutchStudent wrote: »

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

No

DutchStudent wrote: »

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

A British withdrawal from Ireland would be the best solution. The ulster unionists could either decide to participate in the 32 County Republic or else accomodations could be made to repratriate them to Britain. It would no longer be an area of disputed sovereignty and normality could begin.

DutchStudent wrote: »

9. What do you thinkNorth Irland would be in the future

It will eventually disappear in the next 15 years and Ireland will be one nation again!

DutchStudent

thanks for answering

Judgement Day

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Age: 34
Gender: Male



A British withdrawal from Ireland would be the best solution. The ulster unionists could either decide to participate in the 32 County Republic or else accomodations could be made to repratriate them to Britain. It would no longer be an area of disputed sovereignty and normality could begin.

It will eventually disappear in the next 15 years and Ireland will be one nation again!

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

DutchStudent

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

could you also answer the questions so i could have youre opinion about it

Judgement Day

Name: John
Gender: Male (49)


1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

Sick of them - they have been a backdrop to my entire life and they haven't gone away you know. Just examine some of the fanatical contributions to Boards.ie


2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

Very little

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

TV, and heavy security presence on frequent visits to the North. I miss the watch towers and ever present helicopters.

4. Has someone in your nearest family, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No. Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved unless you were unlucky enough to get caught up in one of the occasional bombings down here (Dublin and Monaghan).

5. If you could speak the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Ireland

I presume you mean the Prime Minister of the Republic? I would have little to say except be careful what you wish for. In the unlikely event of unity it would be bad news for Fianna Fail as Unionist voters would not vote for them in a 'united' Ireland.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem for a long time? yes why?

Yes. The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland.

7. Do you recognise the distinction between the Protestants and the
Catholics? yes how

Certain religious differences but in the main it is down to political allegiance. Protestants in the main are Unionist and Catholics Nationalist.

8. What kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about each other .

The troubles are suspended but not resolved. Sadly there is no solution.


9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

It will remain part of the UK unless the incompetent British politicians manage to oversee the break-up of the UK! Quite on the cards with Labour in power. :)

Centauro

McArmalite wrote: »

I think what you are talking about is the Orange Order which is basically the same as the Ku Klux Klan in the southern states of America, a supemascist organisation developed by britain since the late 1700's to intimadate nationalists in Ireland - though nowadays tries to pass itself off as a ' cultural ' society. They have an incredible 2000 marches from April to September to ' celebrate ' the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 when the gay* Dutch King William of Orange, supported by the Pope, defeated the English King James on the 12th July 1690.

Ku Klux Klan?

DutchStudent

Centauro wrote: »

could you also answer the questions Centauro

Bog Butter

1. What do you think about the 'troubles' (rubbish, i understand it...)

I think the troubles reflect the tribal nature of two proud cultures within in the North of Ireland. Unfortunately because the cultures are so divided in the north there will never be real peace until this changes. Real peace will come about when both cultures share the same desires for the future constitutional status of Northern Ireland. The path taken by Sein Fein in pursuing their goals through peaceful means and the ending of violence by the IRA is predicated on the belief that the GFA will bring Irish unity. They believe the Nationalists will out-breed the Unionists.

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?
yes, wat kind of attention

No there is not. I think that people from the republic have become very partitionist in their mindset. They are simply sick of the north and they hope that the current status quo will endure. Talking about the north will lead to a political discussion; a discussion which many feel should be left to the people of Northern Ireland. Talking about the north just brings the emotional memories of the troubles back.

2. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'? yes, where

The ‘troubles’ in today’s post GFA Ireland does not take the form of bombs. The manifestations of the cultural divisions cannot be seen unless you live in Northern Ireland. They are only truly understood if you live in Northern Ireland. As a result, with the cessation of military violence, the North appears at peace to us here in the republic and indeed the world. And yes, relatively speaking it is. But is it really? I will leave that for those living in the North.

We do see the divisions at a political level through the media. BBC NI, which is received in the republic, is the best for news on Northern Ireland. These divisions seem very petty and extreme. But the two main parties in the north are the extremes from both sides. The DUP totally dismiss Irish culture as foreign. However from my limited discussions with Unionists, the ordinary people from that tradition are not as extreme. Many Unionists have some sort of Irish identify. They vote DUP not because they hate all things Irish but because they want the current constitutional position of NI to stay in place.

4. Has someone in your nearest famili, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

No. I live outside of NI and outside of the border region.

5. If you could speake the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Irland

I presume you are talking about the P.M of the U.K and not our P.M. Traditionally the British government have failed to really understand the situation in NI. But this has changed now and so I don’t think it would be my place to say anything. He is well advised as it is.

6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem
for a long time? yes why?

No, there was sufficient help from the U.S. The US through Bill Clinton and George Mitchell has helped enormously. If the British government could not understand Ireland how could the wider European community understand?

7. do you recognise the distinction between the Protetants and the
cotholics? yes how

Yes, I do. But in the context of Northern Ireland the respective religious faith a person is born into is only a general cultural indication i.e. weather or not he/she comes from a Unionist or Nationalist background. The ‘troubles’ was not based on religious difference in reality. Religion was used as a cultural indicator.

8. what kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about
each other

One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists.

9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

People are saying that Nationalists will become the majority in NI so if that does happen I believe a UI is possible. But to be honest I really don’t know. Unfortunately unless there is further social cohesion there the possibility of more violence is possible.

DutchStudent

malman wrote: »

1. quote]

thanks for answering:)

McArmalite

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think that is going to happen. A British withdrawal would precipitate a bloodbath that the Irish security forces would be unable to control.

Oh Gawd this unionist bullsh!t again !!!!!! and they were going to slaughter everyone if they didn't get down Garvagh Road, if the Anglo Irish agreement wasn't dropped, if the cap badge of the RUC was changed. They'd have put up as much fight as their brave comrades did in Donegal *, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Dublin etc when britian was kicked out of the 26 counties. Indeed it says it all about unionism that the unionists in the north and their ‘ loyalty ‘ abounded their brethren to the 26 counties with not so much as whimper.

Donegal is a fine example. It had a considerable unionist population, the eastern half of Donegal may probably have had a unionist majority. The unionists in Donegal were doing as much shouting as the unionists in the rest of the country ( including Dublin where the leader of unionism Edward Carson was from ) of how they'd fight to the last man etc, etc. When britain said - we're going, if you want to have a sectarian bloodbath you'll do it on your own, their wasn't a shot fired out of them.


*(BTW, here's a little link on the Donegal unionists before partition, " NO SURRENDER " etc, etc, etc No fight out of them when britain was casting the boat out though http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_n...o?page_id=3933)

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

no its just that a teatcher had tolld that to me so i wanted to ask you guys if it was true. I really dont have chosen a side because i dont live there and i dont know how its there in Noord-Irland

It might have been worth your while as part of your questionaire to ask if people beleived themselves to be a nationalist or a unionist as some like Judgement Day, Centauro and Camelot are actually unionists, whether they'd admit it is another thing. Though it must be said boards.ie is infested with unionists who come on pushing unionist views and insulting nationalists particularily north of the border. But they give their location as Dublin etc For example Judgement Day ‘s post “ Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved “ and then goes on to state “ The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland. “ which is about as unionist a statement as you can get.

DutchStudent

McArmalite wrote: »

It might have been worth your while as part of your questionaire to ask if people beleived themselves to be a nationalist or a unionist as some like Judgement Day, Centauro and Camelot are actually unionists, whether they'd admit it is another thing. Though it must be said boards.ie is infested with unionists who come on pushing unionist views and insulting nationalists particularily north of the border. But they give their location as Dublin etc For example Judgement Day ‘s post “ Living in the Republic you had to look for trouble to get involved “ and then goes on to state “ The problems in N.Ireland are a matter for the UK government and no business of other EU members - including the R of Ireland. “ which is about as unionist a statement as you can get.

yess that could be truet, its just: I thought always that the Troubles where about protestant and catholiek but its about the unionist and republicans

Erin Go Brath

McArmalite wrote: »

Oh Gawd this unionist bullsh!t again !!!!!! and they were going to slaughter everyone if they didn't get down Garvagh Road, if the Anglo Irish agreement wasn't dropped, if the cap badge of the RUC was changed. They'd have put up as much fight as their brave comrades did in Donegal *, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Dublin etc when britian was kicked out of the 26 counties. Indeed it says it all about unionism that the unionists in the north and their ‘ loyalty ‘ abounded their brethren to the 26 counties with not so much as whimper.

Donegal is a fine example. It had a considerable unionist population, the eastern half of Donegal may probably have had a unionist majority. The unionists in Donegal were doing as much shouting as the unionists in the rest of the country ( including Dublin where the leader of unionism Edward Carson was from ) of how they'd fight to the last man etc, etc. When britain said - we're going, if you want to have a sectarian bloodbath you'll do it on your own, their wasn't a shot fired out of them.


*(BTW, here's a little link on the Donegal unionists before partition, " NO SURRENDER " etc, etc, etc No fight out of them when britain was casting the boat out though http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_n...o?page_id=3933)

Absolutely agree with all that. Once the loyalists don't have their chums in the British security service and army aiding and abetting them any more they won't have the balls to launch an offensive against the Irish state. The penalty will be a lengthy prison term for any atrocity committed. Its gets tedious listening to people opining that when a United Ireland happens the unionists won't accept it and will just cause a bloodbath. It is scaremongering and erroneous to make such assumptions.

Judgement Day

"One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists."

How about Nationalists slowly identifying themselves as British and thus accepting that a United Ireland will never happen. How about the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth? It is about as likely as Unionists deciding that they are Irish.

Bog Butter

Judgement Day wrote: »

"One solution would be Unionists slowing identifying themselves as Irish and thus accepting a UI coupled with further social, political and constitutional change (reflecting the British tradition in Ireland) here in the south. A UI may happen with political and constitutional change alone but unless both cultures merge together there will be disputes and possible more military violence only this time headed by Loyalists."

How about Nationalists slowly identifying themselves as British and thus accepting that a United Ireland will never happen. How about the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth? It is about as likely as Unionists deciding that they are Irish.

Yes and if that happened I would not have a problem because it is up to the people of NI. I believe in the GFA. Which is more likely to happen though? If your vision of NI happens then that would be to suggest that the state and all of its trappings can turn people's cultural identity. My vision sees something more natural. Something which has happened throughout pre-history and history - assimilation. Here's a question: What has stopped this assimilation up til now?

Judgement Day

Well let's get on with the assimilation then. A great many Irish people buy British newspapers, support British football teams, watch British Soaps and British Reality TV shows and our High Street shops are indistinguishable from those in the UK.....etc - sure Ireland is almost assimilated into the UK already!

Fratton Fred

malman wrote: »

Yes and if that happened I would not have a problem because it is up to the people of NI. I believe in the GFA. Which is more likely to happen though? If your vision of NI happens then that would be to suggest that the state and all of its trappings can turn people's cultural identity. My vision sees something more natural. Something which has happened throughout pre-history and history - assimilation. Here's a question: What has stopped this assimilation up til now?

this is off topic, but hey, this thread has already been derailed by the usual culprits...

Do the Scots lost their cultural identity by being part of britain? have the English or Welsh?

I'm not advocating Ireland rejoins the Union, but why would it turn people's cultural identity?

DutchStudent

[quote=Fratton Fred;58485252[/quote]


could you please answer our questions please

DutchStudent

malman wrote: »

quote]

could you also answer answer our questions

McArmalite

DutchStudent wrote: »

could you please answer our questions please

Fred's a unionist DutchStudent. He claims to be from England, ( a claim I'm often skeptical about myself ). But one thing he is for certain - he is a unionist.

Just wondering DutchStudent, maybe you could post some information regarding Dutch history sometime like this Polish person did
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055430318

( I actually lived in Amsterdam for a few months, in Kerkstraat. It's a good few years ago and although I did the tourist things, visit the art muesums, Henieken brewery etc unfortunately I didn't study Dutch history. Let's just say, I had other things on my mind ).

McArmalite

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well let's get on with the assimilation then. A great many Irish people buy British newspapers, support British football teams, watch British Soaps and British Reality TV shows and our High Street shops are indistinguishable from those in the UK.....etc - sure Ireland is almost assimilated into the UK already!

And we also have strong influences from America, American computer companies etc provide huge employment here, we watch American boxing, UFC etc, watch American movies and TV shows. The clothes in our shops are orginally of American origin ( jeans, t shirts etc ). But then so do the brits do the same to one degree or other . It's called the global village.
If I watch Australian nature programs, Aussie Rules football etc, does that make me an Aussie ??

Dudess

McArmalite wrote: »

Fred's a unionist DutchStudent. He claims to be from England, ( a claim I'm often skeptical about myself ). But one thing he is for certain - he is a unionist.

How? Because he's not militantly advocating a united Ireland? That, a unionist does not make.
And why are you sceptical about his Englishness?

Fratton Fred

DutchStudent wrote: »

could you please answer our questions please

My views would not help you survey as I am not from Ireland. As has been said earlier, you will not get a very balanced response here either. the reply below is a good example of what is known in Ireland as a "Bar Stool Republican", someone who is a brave republican warrior on the internet and can tell many a merry tale of the "Bhoys", but in reality has just left school and works evenings in McDonalds.:)

McArmalite wrote: »

Fred's a unionist DutchStudent. He claims to be from England, ( a claim I'm often skeptical about myself ). But one thing he is for certain - he is a unionist.

stovelid

1. What do you think about the 'troubles'

You need to clarify this question. Do I agree with the troubles? Or what do I think of them?

The classic troubles (68-97) were ignited by decades of unionist misrule, and prolonged by the IRA and loyalist campaigns.

Broadly speaking, I supported civil rights, opposed the military campaign against the British, utterly opposed the actions of paramilitaries generally, but supported the right of catholic communities to defend themselves against Loyalist incursion.

2. Is there al lot of in attention about the 'troubles 'at school or work?

From my experience, most people in the Republic of Ireland are armchair republicans. Many like to mouth platitudes about the conflict, but have little understanding of it beyond rhetoric. They also show a complete lack of understanding for moderate unionist opinions. Indeed, any attempt to understand that their acquiescence is essential to future political settlement is viewed as being crypto-unionist.

3. Do you see/hear a lot about the 'troubles'?

I was born in England, and moved home when I was 11 (26 years ago). My parents are Irish and Republican, and my dad was politically involved in both the UK and here. I myself was a member of The Workers Party for some years, a socialist party that evolved from Official Sinn Fein. In addition, I have always been interested in the troubles.


4. Has someone in your nearest family, friends become victim of the
'troubles'

I have close friends in Belfast, and lived there for a few years. Two of my closest friends there lost immediate family members in the troubles.


5. If you could speak the prime minister what would you say to him
about the conditions of North Ireland

The Taoiseach or the Prime Minister of England?


6. Do you think the EU and the rest of the world has ignored the problem for a long time? yes why?

Outside of European (IRA operations) and American (IRA fund raising) security concerns, I feel that it's a political matter for Britain and Ireland to resolve.


7. Do you recognise the distinction between the Protestants and the
Catholics? yes how

For me, the issue is the political/national distinction.

8. What kind of solutions do you think would solve the troubles?
Because the violence of 'troubles' is finished both the society does have several ideees about each other .

For now: an immediate cessation of dissident republican activity. Crack down on loyalist para-militarism, but encourage loyalist political groupings like the PUP. Accept that before the generation(s) most embittered by the troubles pass out of political (and real) life, divisions will remain, and politcial traditions outside the nationalist/unionist duopoly will not emerge.

9. What do you think North Irland would be in the future

Instinctively, I feel that the movement toward some sort of eventual settlement with an all-Ireland dimension is irresistible. I honestly have no strong preferences myself, although I would probably favour some kind of interim federal solution with any movement toward reunification remaining subject to majority vote.

Bog Butter

Fratton Fred wrote: »

this is off topic, but hey, this thread has already been derailed by the usual culprits...

Do the Scots lost their cultural identity by being part of britain? have the English or Welsh?

I'm not advocating Ireland rejoins the Union, but why would it turn people's cultural identity?

You are taking my post out of context. I originally claimed, in my questionnaire, that one possible outcome in NI would be if Unionists assimilated into the culture which surrounds them i.e. become Irish. Judgment Day countered that argument by suggesting that the opposite could happen i.e. the Nationalists would eventually see themselves as British. I then suggested that my vision is both more natural and more likely. I qualified this by pointing to pervious cultural assimilations (Viking, Anglo-Norman etc.).

Anyhow in response to what you said: You must bear in mind that Northern Irish society is not comparable to Scottish, Welsh and English culture. In comparing Northern Ireland with Scotland you are not comparing like for like. Scotland is a state within the UK which reflects it people as Scottish. NI is a state within the UK which reflects the ideology of Unionism, which is centred on being British. It is not centred on a Northern Irish identity.

As a consequence of this Unionism has traditionally operated as if NI has no Irish culture. Now in 2009 Nationalists have representation in Stormount. Yet the dominant party, the DUP, block all attempts by Nationalists to have the Irish culture respected. Despite the fact that NI has failed to respect Irish culture to date, to put it mildly, the culture has endured.

The nature of Unionism as a reactionary force has resulted in them losing or not willing to accept their Irish identity. The net result of the tribalism between both cultures has been the erosion of their ability to see (or indeed to seek) common ground. Therefore it is impossible for both to agree on one common Northern Irish culture.

The GFA reflects this polarisation in that it only presents two possible scenarios for the future constitutional status of NI: a sovereign united Ireland or NI remaining as part of the UK. It does not suggest a possible Independent state of NI, which would reflect one common N. Irish culture, which would in turn be comparable to Scottish culture.