Is it wrong the hate Judaism?

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 3:35am #1

When the followers are blatantly murderous scumbags?

Give me, a secular atheist, a reason not to detest the actions of Israel.
Please?

Victor · 31-12-2008 3:41am

Judaism is not the same thing as Isreal.

Separate people countries and ideas. Otherwise you are a bigot.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 3:45am

Victor wrote: »

Judaism is not the same thing as Isreal.

I will not disagree with that.
But show me a Jew that says the Israeli attacks in the Gaza are not justified and I will retract my statement.

Victor · 31-12-2008 3:49am

There are lots of Jewish people and Israelis who have come out against the actions of the state in tthe territories, many who have ended up in prison for not doing military duty there.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=%2Bisraeli+peace+activists&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=%2Bisrael+peace+activists+prison&btnG=Search&meta=

Splendour · 31-12-2008 3:55am

Zamboni wrote: »

When the followers are blatantly murderous scumbags?

Give me, a secular atheist, a reason not to detest the actions of Ireland.
Please?

Reads a bit differently now, doesn't it?

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 3:58am

Victor wrote: »

There are lots of Jewish people and Israelis who have come out against the actions of the state in tthe territories, many who have ended up in prison for not doing military duty there.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=%2Bisraeli+peace+activists&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=%2Bisrael+peace+activists+prison&btnG=Search&meta=

Fair enough.
Let me clarify by saying that I detest anyone that agrees with the current Israeli attack in the Gaze strip.
Goliath versus David imo. Self defense my arse.
Atheism is a light at the end of this stage of the human infancy tunnel if you ask me.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 4:00am

Splendour wrote: »

Reads a bit differently now, doesn't it?

Terribly vague statement.
Be specific please.

metrovelvet · 31-12-2008 4:02am

^ Im sure you will find gentiles who would not disapprove, so it's not really about Judaism.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 4:16am

metrovelvet wrote: »

^ Im sure you will find gentiles who would not disapprove, so it's not really about Judaism.

I've yet to see a demonstration at the local synagogue about the mindless slaughter in Gaza. Maybe the Jews are nicer around your area?

Splendour · 31-12-2008 4:17am

Zamboni wrote: »

Terribly vague statement.
Be specific please.

Israel does not equal Judaism.
Ireland does not equal Catholicism.
Saudi Arabia does not equal Islamists.

Why on earth would you hate Judaism because of what Israel has done?
Would you hate Catholicism if Ireland were to bomb another country?!!

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 4:25am

Splendour wrote: »

Israel does not equal Judaism.
Ireland does not equal Catholicism.
Saudi Arabia does not equal Islamists.

Why on earth would you hate Judaism because of what Israel has done?
Would you hate Catholicism if Ireland were to bomb another country?!!

Ok.
Apologies for being so vague.
I hate people that follow Judaism that think the current actions of Israeli forces in the Gaza strip are justified.
Hows that?

metrovelvet · 31-12-2008 4:25am

Zamboni wrote: »

I've yet to see a demonstration at the local synagogue about the mindless slaughter in Gaza. Maybe the Jews are nicer around your area?

NYC - the second largest Jewish settlement next to Isreal. Nope. But there are plenty of non jews here who wouldnt protest either, in fact I have yet to see one anywhere except for the Palestinian one outside the UN causing unforgiveable traffic.

metrovelvet · 31-12-2008 4:29am

Splendour wrote: »

Israel does not equal Judaism.
Ireland does not equal Catholicism.
Saudi Arabia does not equal Islamists.

Why on earth would you hate Judaism because of what Israel has done?
Would you hate Catholicism if Ireland were to bomb another country?!!

Hold on a second. Isreal is the worlds only Jewish state. Your analogy is a bit off. Catholicism=The Vatican, Judaism = Israel would be more correct.

Victor · 31-12-2008 4:29am

Zamboni wrote: »

I hate people that follow Judaism that think the current actions of Israeli forces in the Gaza strip are justified.

Why can't you just say: "I hate people that think the current actions of Israeli forces in the Gaza strip are justified" - otherwise you are associating one group with the actions of another.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 4:38am

Victor wrote: »

Why can't you just say: "I hate people that think the current actions of Israeli forces in the Gaza strip are justified" - otherwise you are associating one group with the actions of another.

Because it would be naive to suggest they are mutually exclusive.
Of course there are nice non-violent jews, but do you think they are the majority?

phenomenon · 31-12-2008 4:48am

The current conflict between Israel and Gaza is a political one, not religious.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 4:53am

phenomenon wrote: »

The current conflict between Israel and Gaza is a political one, not religious.

I really do wish I could say something more 'useful' than bollox.

JayeL · 31-12-2008 4:54am

Look, the Jews have been pushed from pillar to post for thousands of years. It's terribly cyclical; everyone's fine with them, people get a bee in their bonnet and before you can say Yom Kippur, someone's taking away their rights, expelling them, carrying out a pogrom or just plain trying to kill every last Jew they can find.

So after all that, is it surprising that the Jews decide only a country of their own, in the land of their origin, can keep them safe? And is it surprising that such a country, surrounded by people that want to drive them into the sea, would lash out at anyone who tries to kill one of them? It's what countries do for their population.

Unlikely situation, but if the UVF decided to launch rockets into the Republic, I'd want our government to bomb them into the Stone Age. Civilians would die but if there was nothing to retaliate against, no-one would die.

Same situation here. The only difference is that very few people can relate to the Jewish people's struggle.

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 5:02am

JayeL wrote: »

Look, the Jews have been pushed from pillar to post for thousands of years. It's terribly cyclical; everyone's fine with them, people get a bee in their bonnet and before you can say Yom Kippur, someone's taking away their rights, expelling them, carrying out a pogrom or just plain trying to kill every last Jew they can find.

So after all that, is it surprising that the Jews decide only a country of their own, in the land of their origin, can keep them safe? And is it surprising that such a country, surrounded by people that want to drive them into the sea, would lash out at anyone who tries to kill one of them? It's what countries do for their population.

Unlikely situation, but if the UVF decided to launch rockets into the Republic, I'd want our government to bomb them into the Stone Age. Civilians would die but if there was nothing to retaliate against, no-one would die.

Same situation here. The only difference is that very few people can relate to the Jewish people's struggle.

Fvck, you're serious.
I will try and coincide.
The Jews have no more an 'original' homeland than any of us.
To think otherwise is to believe an unreliable archaic text.
For the record, there is noting special about the Jews.:eek:

mardybumbum · 31-12-2008 5:29am

Nothing wrong with hating Judaism.
Just as long as you hate all other religions equally!

Jesus1222 · 31-12-2008 5:35am

Zamboni wrote: »

When the followers are blatantly murderous scumbags?

Give me, a secular atheist, a reason not to detest the actions of Israel.
Please?

There are many Jews who are absolutely horrified at what is being done in their name. Jews do not all hold the same opinion on everything. Many Jews in Israel and elsewhere are working to help the Palestinians and come to a fair solution.

Following the Jewish holocaust in Europe it's understandable that many Jews support Israel blindly but these ideas will slowly break down. Any group of people who've suffered similarly would largely feel the same way. In the peace-process-speak of Norn Iron you need to decommission mindsets in a post-conflict situation. This is a slow process.

sink · 31-12-2008 5:35am

It's an immensely complex situation and for outsiders like us to be able to constructively comment it requires a deep understanding of the conflicts origins and history but most importantly the current situation with all the different factions within both the Palestinian and Israeli communities and their capabilities and motivations. I am certain I do not posses enough knowledge to be able to pass any meaningful judgement and I would say the same for almost all of us. Only those with sufficient knowledge of the factors at play can take any meaningful part in a debate, the rest of us are just doing guess work often grounded in emotion rather than fact.

MrPudding · 31-12-2008 9:45am

Zamboni wrote: »

I've yet to see a demonstration at the local synagogue about the mindless slaughter in Gaza.

Yeah, they are probably scared about getting blown up my some twat in a C4 & ball bearing waistcoat.

MrP

munchester29 · 31-12-2008 10:02am

I've yet to see a Palestinian or even an Irish person protest the firing of rockets and mortars into Israeli cities, or protest against suicide bombers.

I've also yet to see the Irish person who can walk untouched in the streets of Gaza without a heavy Hamas escort...

The problem with the Irish people is that we always support the underdog, and most people do it without even knowing who or what they are supporting.
Being an underdog seems to be the only qualification necessary to get Irish support.

Orion · 31-12-2008 10:05am

Zamboni wrote: »

Ok.
Apologies for being so vague.
I hate people that follow Judaism that think the current actions of Israeli forces in the Gaza strip are justified.
Hows that?

Fixed that for you

pH · 31-12-2008 11:11am

JayeL wrote: »

Look, the Jews have been pushed from pillar to post for thousands of years. It's terribly cyclical; everyone's fine with them, people get a bee in their bonnet and before you can say Yom Kippur, someone's taking away their rights, expelling them, carrying out a pogrom or just plain trying to kill every last Jew they can find.

Agreed, the world felt pretty bad after what happened to the Jews in Europe during WWII. However the state of Israel was founded on the back on a very nasty terrorist campaign, followed when the state was created by what can only be called "ethnic cleansing", the displacement nearly a million Palestinians in now what is euphemistically called the 1948 Palestinian Exodus.

So after all that, is it surprising that the Jews decide only a country of their own, in the land of their origin, can keep them safe? And is it surprising that such a country, surrounded by people that want to drive them into the sea, would lash out at anyone who tries to kill one of them? It's what countries do for their population.

The resentment of these people and their direct descendants (now estimated at 3 million) living in refugee camps is understandable.

Unlikely situation, but if the UVF decided to launch rockets into the Republic, I'd want our government to bomb them into the Stone Age. Civilians would die but if there was nothing to retaliate against, no-one would die.

But the IRA did similar things, and the couple of times that the British army reacted in an overt military manner (Bloody Sunday) are still remembered with horror. At no stage were attack helicopters sent in, or cities bombed by jet fighters, or maybe you're saying that the correct British response to the attempted mortar attack on Downing Street in 1991 would have been the destruction of the Irish army and the shelling of Dublin?

Dades · 31-12-2008 11:18am

Zamboni wrote: »

When the followers are blatantly murderous scumbags?

Since when did not condemning someone else's action make someone a blatantly murderous scumbag?

By your reasoning all Palestinians are blatantly murderous scumbags too, as I doubt too many of them condemn attacks that kill Israelis.

Yes, the Israeli attacks were massively disproportionate but there it can't just be boiled down to 'hating Judaism'. It's that type of generalisation that has entire states firing rockets into one another.

MrPudding · 31-12-2008 11:22am

Zamboni wrote: »

Because it would be naive to suggest they are mutually exclusive.
Of course there are nice non-violent jews, but do you think they are the majority?

I take it you were protesting outside the GPO after every IRA bomb attack?

MrP

Goduznt Xzst · 31-12-2008 3:08pm

Zamboni wrote: »

Is it wrong the hate Judaism? When the followers are blatantly murderous scumbags?

Zamboni wrote: »

Of course there are nice non-violent jews

Thread FAIL

Zamboni · 31-12-2008 3:14pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Thread FAIL

Lol

Drunk posting. Ya gotta love it

Sorry for getting worked up about people killing other people in the name of religion. Apparently thats ok.

brianthebard · 31-12-2008 3:20pm

As was already pointed out its an issue of nations, not an issue of religion exactly. However religion is used as the central origin myth of the Israeli state, to give it legitimacy. If you don't believe in this (and why would you) then I think its ok to feel disdain for the Israeli state, but not right to hate religion or a group of people of one religion.

Is it wrong the hate Judaism?

Comments