Martin O'Neill - Great manager or blessed by circumstances?

Villain

What a great great spokesman, a truly proud Irishman and while I agree the change in times helped give him the chance of being interviewed by the English FA for the England job I also think it shows how people embedded in football see he has great ability.

A truly proud Irishman and its a great honour to have him at the helm of a football club I love

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Agbonlahor didnt play every game till MON arrived

actually... to be really anal here, he did

hes only missed one match since he made his debut, the 4-0 win over newcastle where carew got the hat-trick last year

jimmyboy

****ing idiots spouting on about how you should remove Celtic from his CV.
Just shows your ignorance about the Celtic and the SPL.
He got Celtic into a European cup final(last one being in 1970) beating the likes of Liverpool, Boavista, Stuttgart and Celta Vigo and only lost out to Jose Mourinhos Porto side after extra time.
And this Porto team eventually going on to win the Champions League.

Bounty Hunter

Helix wrote: »

actually... to be really anal here, he did

hes only missed one match since he made his debut, the 4-0 win over newcastle where carew got the hat-trick last year

well he only played 9 games in the 05/06 season under O'Leary scoring only one goal which came in his debut so i assumed that he didnt start every one of the last nine games of the season that year. cant remember exactley but thought he made quite a few sub appearances to start with. doesent really make much of a difference as you say my main point about gabby was that half of the "blessed by circumstances" thing in the OP seemed to be that he availed of Villa's youth who were being nurtured into Villa's first team before MON yet that is only really the case with Gabby and nobody else seing as The Fonz was like 15 when he took over and MON got rid of Moore

invincibleirish

I quite like MON. Let me echo what Bounty Hunter said in his post. Villa have went from terminal decline on and off the pitch to where we are now. RL has played a huge part but only MON can be thanked for the progress of the 1st team.

On a personal level i think his no bull**** attitude is a breath of fresh air, his performance in the summer pantomine was exemplary. Contrast Spurs going awol after they rolled over and died when 'top 4' teams came in for his players. He knows when he has to protect the integrity of team & club.

I was wary when he arrived as to be honest i dont think success in Scotland is much if an indicator of how good a manager can be, (sorry Celtic fans). Given his age its his achievements at Villa that i think will define his career.

Tactically yes subs can be a concern, but who am i to question his methods? Villa are top 4 thats what matters.

Bounty Hunter

I was out tonight with one of the biggest pool fans i know and he repeatidly said to me that should Rafa leave Liverpool for any reason he would love MON to be the next Liverpool manager, and that he believes that someone like "MON who could make liverpool's average players into world beaters simply through his motivational and management techniques would be ideal to be the next Liverpool manager". He thinks that Liverpools squad is not as good as Chelsea's or Utd's but is def capable with the right guidance of winning the league.

He has the utmost respect for MON and thinks the English FA were idiots for not appointing him as national coach (though he does admit Capello is class) and always says that he expects great things from Villa simply cos Villa have MON.

It isnt just Villa fans that see what he is capable of, it is anyone that listens to the man and realises the passion he instills in those that work with him. like Pool fans say about rafa.... in MON we trust!

eagle eye

Let me see, iirc he got Wycombe promoted from the Conference. He won two League cups and finished in the top 10 in the Premier League every year with Leicester City. He won numerous League titles and cups with Celtic and lost in the Uefa Cup final to Porto who went on to win the Champions League the next year.

Now in his second year back in the Premier League he is attempting to break into the top four, taking a sleeping giant back towards the top of the table.

I'd say thats pretty impressive.

Its worth noting also that he turned down Leeds United when they were going well.

SantryRed

jimmyboy wrote: »

****ing idiots spouting on about how you should remove Celtic from his CV.
Just shows your ignorance about the Celtic and the SPL.
He got Celtic into a European cup final(last one being in 1970) beating the likes of Liverpool, Boavista, Stuttgart and Celta Vigo and only lost out to Jose Mourinhos Porto side after extra time.
And this Porto team eventually going on to win the Champions League.

It's the UEFA Cup btw.
I'd let him put that on the CV. Not the SPL win's or that treble that Celtic milked the fcuk outta back then. Rangers were piss poor whilst O'Neill was there so it wasn't exactly hard.

invincibleirish

Success in the UEFA Cup means nothing when it comes to succeeding in the PL, if it were then Juande Ramos would still be gracing the PL with his presence and Steve Mclaren would still have a reputation.

L'prof

invincibleirish wrote: »

Success in the UEFA Cup means nothing when it comes to succeeding in the PL, if it were then Juande Ramos would still be gracing the PL with his presence and Steve Mclaren would still have a reputation.

I think Ramos' main mistake was not learning English before he came over, he is a good manager and I hope he can prove that by keeping the Madrid job!

invincibleirish

jasonorr wrote: »

I think Ramos' main mistake was not learning English before he came over, he is a good manager and I hope he can prove that by keeping the Madrid job!

Oh i agree with your point, i'm just pointing out to whoever that UEFA Cup success is not a guarantee to being a successful PL manager, neither is managing a team to success in a minor league.

L'prof

invincibleirish wrote: »

Oh i agree with your point, i'm just pointing out to whoever that UEFA Cup success is not a guarantee to being a successful PL manager, neither is managing a team to success in a minor league.

There's no guarantees in life at all! Look at Mark Hughes failing to make an impact (so far) on Man City, while he was (in my opinion) excellent at Blackburn!

A Dub in Glasgo

SantryRed wrote: »

It's the UEFA Cup btw.

Still a European Cup final is it not?

I'd let him put that on the CV. Not the SPL win's or that treble that Celtic milked the fcuk outta back then. Rangers were piss poor whilst O'Neill was there so it wasn't exactly hard.

I'm sure O'Neill will run his CV by you for your approval next time he updates it :rolleyes:

Helix

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Still a European Cup final is it not?

no

the capital on the c messes that up. its a European cup final, but not a European Cup final

Chucky the tree

eirebhoy wrote: »

1 Brad Friedel
22 Brad Guzan
2 Luke Young
3 Wilfred Bouma
5 Martin Laursen
15 Curtis Davies
16 Zat Knight
21 Nicky Shorey
24 Cuéllar
4 Steve Sidwell
6 Gareth Barry
7 Ashley Young
8 James Milner
19 Stiliyan Petrov
20 Nigel Reo-Coker
9 Marlon Harewood
10 John Carew
11 Gabriel Agbonlahor

That's his main squad. He bought 14 of those players. He spent net £60m. Average of £4.3m per player.

Someone call Roy Keane and tell him how easy it is to make the top 5.

I dont see how people can claim he's a great judge of talent or spends well based of these signings. Most of those players were already considered good players before signing for Villan. Friedel has always been a top PL keeper.

Young, Knight, Shorey, Milner, Reo cooker, Harwood, Carew , Petrov were all well known players before there time a Villa. Curtis Davies has been considered an excellent prospect for a long time aswell.

Savman

It's not so much who he signs, moreso what he gets out of them. Y'know, like managing them. He yields excellent results, therefore he is an excellent manager.

Simple really.

mormank

ah guys he is a great manager. no debate about that. i believe the only debate there can be about him is if he would be able to handle a top four side etc..and i believe the only real answer can be that he would need to get the job for us to see, however i cannot see it happening myself

DSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I dont see how people can claim he's a great judge of talent or spends well based of these signings. Most of those players were already considered good players before signing for Villan. Friedel has always been a top PL keeper.

Young, Knight, Shorey, Milner, Reo cooker, Harwood, Carew , Petrov were all well known players before there time a Villa. Curtis Davies has been considered an excellent prospect for a long time aswell.

You're aware theres a massive pool of well known players out there right? If it was as easy as just picking any from them, the likes of Roy Keane would be made, given the vast resources he had at his disposal. O'Neill picked mostly the right ones.

DSB

mormank wrote: »

ah guys he is a great manager. no debate about that. i believe the only debate there can be about him is if he would be able to handle a top four side etc..and i believe the only real answer can be that he would need to get the job for us to see, however i cannot see it happening myself

At the moment he is managing a top four side. If he consistently keeps Villa there, then he doesn't really need to go to any of the other clubs to prove anything.

mormank

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I dont see how people can claim he's a great judge of talent or spends well based of these signings. Most of those players were already considered good players before signing for Villan. Friedel has always been a top PL keeper.

Young, Knight, Shorey, Milner, Reo cooker, Harwood, Carew , Petrov were all well known players before there time a Villa. Curtis Davies has been considered an excellent prospect for a long time aswell.

are you an arsenal fan by any chance. i believe wenger is the only prem manager who signs players that were unheard of before. otherwise every manager signs players that were all considered great prospects or were known before they signed for that club..thin thin argument. i motion that this post gets deleted from boards forever never to be read or talked about ever again...

mormank

DSB wrote: »

At the moment he is managing a top four side. If he consistently keeps Villa there, then he doesn't really need to go to any of the other clubs to prove anything.

:rolleyes: sigh..you know what i meant when i said top four side..title challenges, challenging for CL and faa cups etc...not just gettin villa into the top four once...look at everton, they didit once, didnt really materialise into a top four side now did they...by your reasoning phil brown also managed one of the prem top four clubs

DSB

mormank wrote: »

:rolleyes: sigh..you know what i meant when i said top four side..title challenges, challenging for CL and faa cups etc...not just gettin villa into the top four once...look at everton, they didit once, didnt really materialise into a top four side now did they...by your reasoning phil brown also managed one of the prem top four clubs

But thats why I said, if he can consistently keep us up there. Clearly, Lerner and O'Neill's end goal is to be up there with those teams, and they've a realistic chance of achieving it. It might go belly up, but Villa have a much better chance than Everton and Hull did. In Young, Agbonlahor, Davies, and Milner, Villa have superstars of the future. This situation was coming for Villa for a while as long as O'Neill got out there and bought a squad as opposed to a team. He did just that, and I imagine he'll build on it this month.

mormank

DSB wrote: »

But thats why I said, if he can consistently keep us up there. Clearly, Lerner and O'Neill's end goal is to be up there with those teams, and they've a realistic chance of achieving it. It might go belly up, but Villa have a much better chance than Everton and Hull did. In Young, Agbonlahor, Davies, and Milner, Villa have superstars of the future. This situation was coming for Villa for a while as long as O'Neill got out there and bought a squad as opposed to a team. He did just that, and I imagine he'll build on it this month.

milner the superstar?? something about that statement doesnt sit well with me. also in those players all ye have are more players for the bigger clubs to purchase off ye. i think that is the real struggle for teams like villa these days. if ye are successful it is because players are performing well and when this happens big clubs come knocking. spurs threatened the most to break up this monopoly in recent years, but then cam the loss of important players, dip in form, change of manager or two and back to square one.

oh and as far as him building a squad goes...no he didnt, he built a first 14 or so. ye have no good players after this, thats not building a squad

invincibleirish

mormank wrote: »

:rolleyes: sigh..you know what i meant when i said top four side..title challenges, challenging for CL and faa cups etc...not just gettin villa into the top four once...look at everton, they didit once, didnt really materialise into a top four side now did they...by your reasoning phil brown also managed one of the prem top four clubs

You know the 'top four' as you know it isn't actually a status quo yeah? Everton didnt stay in the CL spots because they didn't spend, Leeds & Newcastle did until the money ran out.

MON doesn't need to manage a 'top four' side as you call it to prove he is a great manager, you become a great manager by winning things not by managing certain clubs, MON is set up at Villa to achieve all he wants.

Edit btw i thought Villa were good enough to finish 5th at the start of the season, whilst the way things have gone in the meantime mean that finishing 5th could be a disappointing, Villa are, like stated above, a work in progress.

DSB

mormank wrote: »

milner the superstar?? something about that statement doesnt sit well with me. also in those players all ye have are more players for the bigger clubs to purchase off ye. i think that is the real struggle for teams like villa these days. if ye are successful it is because players are performing well and when this happens big clubs come knocking. spurs threatened the most to break up this monopoly in recent years, but then cam the loss of important players, dip in form, change of manager or two and back to square one.

oh and as far as him building a squad goes...no he didnt, he built a first 14 or so. ye have no good players after this, thats not building a squad

Villa have already shown what they're prepared to do when the big clubs come knocking. If clubs want Villa's stars they'll have to pay more than they're worth, and I think most Villa fans have faith in O'Neill to spend that wisely on a replacement. With Agbonlahor, Milner and Young on long-term contracts we're fairly sorted in that department. Spurs on the other hand had Comolli bringing in duds.

mormank

invincibleirish wrote: »

You know the 'top four' as you know it isn't actually a status quo yeah? Everton didnt stay in the CL spots because they didn't spend, Leeds & Newcastle did until the money ran out.

MON doesn't need to manage a 'top four' side as you call it to prove he is a great manager, you become a great manager by winning things not by managing certain clubs, MON is set up at Villa to achieve all he wants.

Edit btw i thought Villa were good enough to finish 5th at the start of the season, whilst the way things have gone in the meantime mean that finishing 5th could be a disappointing, Villa are, like stated above. a work in progress.

ok lets do this your way/ MON will never win the PL or CL with villa. the big four then as they have become known and yes there are 4 clubs that have become known as the big four in the prem league and the next person who comes on here and say blah blah they werent alwaya the big 4 or whatever should just be perma banned. i used the term to describe the clubs i was discussing. and i believe that in MON's time as manager he will not be able to win a PL or CL title without managing one of the big 4...or should i type out their names..god some of you guys argue just for the sake of arguing..

mormank

DSB wrote: »

Villa have already shown what they're prepared to do when the big clubs come knocking. If clubs want Villa's stars they'll have to pay more than they're worth, and I think most Villa fans have faith in O'Neill to spend that wisely on a replacement. With Agbonlahor, Milner and Young on long-term contracts we're fairly sorted in that department. Spurs on the other hand had Comolli bringing in duds.

well to be fair that was a one off with a player of barry's abilities. if young ever gets good enough to be considered for the ballon d'or or something like that ye will find it impossible to keep him. ye kept barry by pricing him out of the market i believe but if he was as good as xavi or gerrard that price wouldve been paid by some team. not gettin into an argument over his abilities, i just hope you see my point is all

invincibleirish

mormank wrote: »

ok lets do this your way/ MON will never win the PL or CL with villa. the big four then as they have become known and yes there are 4 clubs that have become known as the big four in the prem league and the next person who comes on here and say blah blah they werent alwaya the big 4 or whatever should just be perma banned. i used the term to describe the clubs i was discussing. and i believe that in MON's time as manager he will not be able to win a PL or CL title without managing one of the big 4...or should i type out their names..god some of you guys argue just for the sake of arguing..

Friend i'm not looking for an argument, but i'll take your predictions Villa will win nothing under MON the same way as i take your posts saying Villa will struggle to hold onto players, or will go the way of Spurs etc, clearly you have little idea of whats been happening at VP the past 3.5 years.

DSB

mormank wrote: »

well to be fair that was a one off with a player of barry's abilities. if young ever gets good enough to be considered for the ballon d'or or something like that ye will find it impossible to keep him. ye kept barry by pricing him out of the market i believe but if he was as good as xavi or gerrard that price wouldve been paid by some team. not gettin into an argument over his abilities, i just hope you see my point is all

If a ridiculously overvalued price gets paid for a Villa player, thats pretty good for us in the long run too. Not for the likes of United who are up there at the top already, but if Ashley Young gos for like 40 million (which is about as ridiculously overpriced as I'd say Martin O'Neill would want, then look at what Villa could do with that.

Helix

mormank wrote: »

if young ever gets good enough to be considered for the ballon d'or or something like that ye will find it impossible to keep him.

if young ever gets that good with us, we'll be league champions

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

clearly you have little idea of whats been happening at VP the past 3.5 years.

2.5 years

3.5 years ago, david o leary was out manager

invincibleirish

2009 messed with my finger counting

mormank

guys i came on here to say that MON is a top manager..how on earth did i get into so many different arguments. if ye cannot see how football has been going for the past ten years in terms of the top clubs buying up all the best talent then ye have very little of whats been going in the world of football outside the little bubble ye must live in at villa park...

if you are tellin me that you honestly believe MON will win a prem title at villa then you are optimistic to say the least imo but to say that by me stating this i know very little about whats mean happenin at villa is a little insulting...friend

DSB

mormank wrote: »

guys i came on here to say that MON is a top manager..how on earth did i get into so many different arguments. if ye cannot see how football has been going for the past ten years in terms of the top clubs buying up all the best talent then ye have very little of whats been going in the world of football outside the little bubble ye must live in at villa park...

if you are tellin me that you honestly believe MON will win a prem title at villa then you are optimistic to say the least imo but to say that by me stating this i know very little about whats mean happenin at villa is a little insulting...friend

Optimistic is exactly what Villa fans are at the moment. Nail on the head. Both Arsenal and Man Utd broke into where they are today, due to an extraordinary manager. Chelsea's was very much monetary, and Liverpool was way before my time so to give an accurate description would be impossible. Villa definitely have the capabilities to do the same. It could go belly up or it could go amazingly. But we're definitely in a better position than Spurs ever were.

invincibleirish

mormank wrote: »

if ye cannot see how football has been going for the past ten years in terms of the top clubs buying up all the best talent then ye have very little of whats been going in the world of football outside the little bubble ye must live in at villa park...

May i kindly suggest you are not aware fully of what has happened in the past 10 years? namely the financial strength of the PL increasing year on year in line with the TV deals. The PL is the richest league in Europe, what this means for a club like Villa is that if they do qualify for the CL group stages the clubs income will increase hugely from TV money alone, add that to the PL TV money and Randy Lerners own fortune and Villa will become one of the top clubs you cite buying all the talent.

All speculation on my part but consider the anecdotal evidence, outside of a handful of Spanish & Italian clubs most clubs in the other big leagues across Europe just can't compete in financial terms with their assumed equivalents in the PL.

Reality is Villa are already part of the moneyed elite of Europe along with the rest of the PL clubs, the question now is how far we can go:).

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

Optimistic is exactly what Villa fans are at the moment. Nail on the head. Both Arsenal and Man Utd broke into where they are today, due to an extraordinary manager. Chelsea's was very much monetary, and Liverpool was way before my time so to give an accurate description would be impossible. Villa definitely have the capabilities to do the same. It could go belly up or it could go amazingly. But we're definitely in a better position than Spurs ever were.

So you are saying that the huge transfer fees Manchester United have paid out over the years are not monetary??????????

AND

WTF makes you believe that you can buy success?

Chelsea had improved steadily for quite a while before the big money came in, it helped them greatly but to say that money alone won them the title is ridiculous.

And saying that it was just a good manager at United that done it is ridiculous too. Over the past number of years United have paid out top dollar for players to make sure they got them. Going all the way back to Gary Pallister who set a transfer record for a defender and Roy Keane who cost a whopping(at the time) 3.5 mill or something like that when he moved to Old Trafford. While they had a great youth team that came through also, its not just down to that alone. You had Keane, Pallister and Andy Cole who cost fortunes at the time they joined, this has continued on, with Van Nistelrooy, Ferdinand, Rooney to name but a few of the big name, big fee signings by Alex Ferguson.

Wenger has managed to balance the books it seems over the years to be fair but then again he has not had nearly the success of United who paid out the big money when it was required.

Chucky the tree

Savman wrote: »

It's not so much who he signs, moreso what he gets out of them. Y'know, like managing them. He yields excellent results, therefore he is an excellent manager.

Simple really.

Excellent? Far too OTT I think. What major titles has he won to be considered excellent? None. (SPL titles dont cont)

DSB wrote: »

You're aware theres a massive pool of well known players out there right? If it was as easy as just picking any from them, the likes of Roy Keane would be made, given the vast resources he had at his disposal. O'Neill picked mostly the right ones.

Roy Keane's a poor manager. He bought decent players(overpaid for them) but there good players who just need a half-decent manager to get them to play well(like they have now)

mormank wrote: »

are you an arsenal fan by any chance. i believe wenger is the only prem manager who signs players that were unheard of before. otherwise every manager signs players that were all considered great prospects or were known before they signed for that club..thin thin argument. i motion that this post gets deleted from boards forever never to be read or talked about ever again...

Liverpool fan. My point was basically in reference to these posts..

Carroller16 wrote: »

O'Neill is an excellent manager... although he has spent a lot.. he has made some great signings - Laursen and Freidel for one .... and the youth they've brought through is outstandin... Agbonlahor - Young... I think most of it can be put down to him

didnt sign Laursen and Freidel is a class PL keeper, it's pretty much a no-miss signing. Hardly shows MON eye for talent. Young was signed from Watford.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

He's also probably the best manager in the premiership for improving ordinary players.

He helped Steve Guppy get an england cap.
He made Didier Agathe look good, he made Momo Sylla look average.
He made Colin Healy and Liam Miller look like they were going to be great players.
Look how much Agbonlahor has improved, Gareth Barry also even Luke Young looks good this season.

The millions he paid for Ashley Young looks like a bargain now. Friedel is the signing of the season so far. However some of his signings have been poor, Nicky Shorey is a defensive liability, Salifou is rubbish and Sidwell wasn't the best option to buy for a central midfielder.

If he does break the top four and wins a PL in the coming years with Villa, then he can be considered a great manager, until then he will remain a very good one.
As for Fergie's successor Jose would be my favourite for it followed by O'Neill, Moyes and a possible dark horse in Solksjaer.

I dont agree with most of this. Improving ordinary players maybe, but Barry and friedal are far from ordianry and neither is Abongalhor.


I think Mr. Alan has summed it up perfectly.

Mr Alan wrote: »

fraid not Kinetic.

Great managers win great trophies, build great teams.

At the moment he is a good manager, with a good team.

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

So you are saying that the huge transfer fees Manchester United have paid out over the years are not monetary??????????

AND

WTF makes you believe that you can buy success?

Chelsea had improved steadily for quite a while before the big money came in, it helped them greatly but to say that money alone won them the title is ridiculous.

And saying that it was just a good manager at United that done it is ridiculous too. Over the past number of years United have paid out top dollar for players to make sure they got them. Going all the way back to Gary Pallister who set a transfer record for a defender and Roy Keane who cost a whopping(at the time) 3.5 mill or something like that when he moved to Old Trafford. While they had a great youth team that came through also, its not just down to that alone. You had Keane, Pallister and Andy Cole who cost fortunes at the time they joined, this has continued on, with Van Nistelrooy, Ferdinand, Rooney to name but a few of the big name, big fee signings by Alex Ferguson.

Wenger has managed to balance the books it seems over the years to be fair but then again he has not had nearly the success of United who paid out the big money when it was required.

I never once said that Man United's success was based purely on Ferguson, I'd just consider him the biggest factor. Basically what I'm saying is that I think the signing of Ferguson was more important than the money he was given to spend on transfers. Villa will be given money to spend. But not ridiculous money. That seems to be all O'Neill needs.

invincibleirish

eagle eye wrote: »

WTF makes you believe that you can buy success?

Chelsea had improved steadily for quite a while before the big money came in, it helped them greatly but to say that money alone won them the title is ridiculous.

You answer your own question here, Chelsea in the Bates/Harding era were, from Summer 1995 to Abramovich, spending outlandish money on building a team capable of qualifying for the CL.

invincibleirish

Chucky the tree wrote: »

. Young wasnt signed from Watford.

Yeah he was.

Helix

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Young wasnt signed from Watford

really?

jesus christ!!

WHY THE HELL DID WE GIVE THEM £9.6m?????????

someone get me mon on the phone, theres been some sort of massive financial error

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Excellent? Far too OTT I think. What major titles has he won to be considered excellent? None. (SPL titles dont cont)

What do you need to do to be considered and 'excellent' manager?

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

What do you need to do to be considered and 'excellent' manager?

since mick is a liverpool fan, then whatever benitez has done, and not an iota less

Bounty Hunter

yup love how you have to have won titles in England, Spain or Italy to be considerd an excellent manager. Its like that magic plane journey to england for Irish players where they only become good enough to play international football when they get off the plane in England.

You can only become an great excellent manager it seems when a huge club offer you a job, cos winning promotion, cups etc anywhere youve managed obviously isnt any kind of achievement if its not the premiership, La Liga, Seria A or the Champions league.

we arent claiming he is one of the best ever or anything... afterall he aint finished yet

Chucky the tree

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yeah he was.

I knew he was. NYE hangover isnt helping my typing.

eagle eye wrote: »

What do you need to do to be considered and 'excellent' manager?

Helix wrote: »

since mick is a liverpool fan, then whatever benitez has done, and not an iota less

Winning some trophies would help, which Rafa has done. I wouldnt claim what he has done at Liverpool would make him excellent, but his Liverpool record and his Valencia one is very impressive, especially Valencia. I think Moyes has done just a good a job as MON but I wouldnt call him excellent.

Helix

im not in the "mon is a great manager camp", but he has actually won trophies like, you know that surely?

Chucky the tree

Helix wrote: »

im not in the "mon is a great manager camp", but he has actually won trophies like, you know that surely?

One carling cup apart from the SPL titles is it?

Bounty Hunter

Chucky the tree wrote: »

One carling cup apart from the SPL titles is it?

isnt that 2 league cups not 1

Chucky the tree

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

isnt that 2 league cups not 1

it could be two alright. I am not 100% sure.

eagle eye

Well wording is one thing. I'd personally call the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Capello, Mourinho and a couple of others the elite of soccer management.

I'd consider both Martin O'Neill and David Moyes to be excellent managers.

They have not had the opportunity to manage the bigger clubs but have done fantastic jobs at smaller clubs. Martin O'Neill now has a bigger club than ever before and whats happening right now at Aston Villa is great.

In three years time if his current rate of progress keeps up they will be legitimate title contendors before the season starts. And all his signings at Villa seem excellent to this point.

Even the most hardcore of Villa fans had given up on Stillian Petrov but he persisted with him and has been vindicated by his performances this season. The signing of John Carew was a bit of a head scratcher to me at the time but again he has done a great job for Villa. Curtis Davies has been a revelation also. I could go on, Ashley Young etc. etc.

He seems to get the best out of every player he manages, go back to Celtic, the performances in Champions League games by players not considered good enough for top class premiership football in England and even before that at Leicester with top 10 finishes every season after gaining them promotion, no other manager has managed to keep them in the top ten in the Premier League. And he won two league cups and lost one final with Leicester as well. Go back further to his time at Wycombe Wanderers, he gets them promoted from the Conference and then the next season gains promotion to what is now known as League One and just missed out on promotion to the old Division Two(now the championship) due to the introduction of the Premier League that season. He also won the FA Trophy twice with Wycombe.

In all fairness looking at his whole management career there has been exceptional improvement during his tenure of every side he has managed.