Best Wrestler

OrtonViper

Please post who you thinks are the top three wrestlers of now and of all time going on pure wrestling ability.
NOW
1.Kurt Angle
2.Randy Orton
3.Shawn Michaels

ALL TIME
1.Bret Hart
2.Ric Flair
3.Shawn Michaels

gimmick

Purely based on my own tastes

Current
1. Brian Danielson
2. Chris Jericho
3. Naomichi Marufuji

All Time (while I have been watching)
1. Bret Hart
2. Chris Benoit
3. Brian Danielson.

I just want to point out also, that I am basing those purely on the fact of my seeing the majority of their careers.

chopperbyrne

All Time
1. Hulk Hogan
2. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
3. Randy "Macho Man" Savage

Wrestling ability is more than just technical skill.

Kettle316

NOW
1.AJ Styles
2.Kurt Angle
3.Randy Orton

ALL TIME
1.The Rock
2.Bret Hart
3.Shawn Michaels

Machismo Fan

chopperbyrne wrote: »

All Time
1. Hulk Hogan

There's no denying that the man was the absolute master of getting the maximum out of the minimum, could put on a great match when he needed to.

slicus ricus

Machismo Fan wrote: »

There's no denying that the man was the absolute master of getting the maximum out of the minimum

Lol, outstanding description!!

Aside from that, in terms of charisma and working a crowd, there are very few who are on a par with him.

My list-

Current
Shawn Michaels
Aj Styles
Kurt Angle

All time
Shawn Michaels
Ric Flair
Undertaker

RAMPAGE1

NOW
TRIPLE H
SHAWN MICHAELS
EDGE
ANGLE

OVERALL
RIC FLAIR
HULK HOGAN
RANDY SAVAGE

OrtonViper

By the way if anyone says John Cena or Batista I think they should be banned

Company Sgt

Now
Triple h
Shawn Michaels
Edge

Alltime
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Bret Hart

chopperbyrne

OrtonViper wrote: »

By the way if anyone says John Cena or Batista I think they should be banned

Why?

CMpunked

Im getting deja Vu from a thread like this a little while ago:...

But do you mean on the ability to wrestle, (moves, stamina etc)
Or their professional wrestling abilty (working the crowd, mic work)

or a mixture of both?

Because for the latter im sorry im going to have to say Cena would be my number one....

DenMan

NOW
1.Kurt Angle
2.Shawn Michaels
3.Samoa Joe

ALL TIME
1.Owen Hart
2.Bret Hart
3.Shawn Michaels

OrtonViper

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Im getting deja Vu from a thread like this a little while ago:...

But do you mean on the ability to wrestle, (moves, stamina etc)
Or their professional wrestling abilty (working the crowd, mic work)

or a mixture of both?

Because for the latter im sorry im going to have to say Cena would be my number one....

Try just base in on actual ability rather than there work on the mic an all.

OrtonViper

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Why?

Because neither of them can wrestle to save there lives.

Turd Ferguson

I was going to put Jericho in the NOW list but I dont watch WWE anymore so I dont know if he is as good as he was back in late 90's early 00's

Now:

Kurt Angle
AJ Styles
Samoa Joe



All time:

Curt Henning
Roddy Piper
Ric Flair

dlofnep

Hard one to call.

Gary Albright, Kurt Angle, Taz, Sakuraba.

Jazzy

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

All time:

Curt Henning

ohhh.. good choice.

all time:
The Rock
Triple H
Ric Flair


i think these 3 have done the most in wrestling. u could argue hogan too but i just dont like the guy. sure the other 3 there are a$$holes but they are likeable a$$holes

herewegoagain

Triple H in the year 2000...Sensational

The Rock

Edge

Shaneomac

Such a selection to pick from. Think it would be a much easier task to pick more who are all round the"greatest" of all time than 3 guys.

Today
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
A J Styles


All Time(in no particular order)
Shawn Michaels
Bret 'Hit Man' Hart
Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan
Mick Foley
Stone Cold Steve Austin

Machismo Fan

Today
AJ Styles
Kurt Angle
Edge

All Time
Ricky Steamboat
Mick Foley
Kurt Angle

slicus ricus

OrtonViper wrote: »

Try just base in on actual ability rather than there work on the mic an all.

That "work on the mic an all" is as important (if not more important) a wrestling ability as technical wrestling skills. A wrestler can do as many moonsaults or innovative suplexes as they want but if they can't link it all together and tell a story or work the crowd and have sufficient charisma to interest a crowd, then it means nothing!

I would have thought you were aware of this (and maybe you are) given the choices you've made in both top 3s! All of the guys you've picked were able to tell a story in a match, work the crowd and cut a good promo!

OrtonViper wrote: »

Because neither of them can wrestle to save there lives.

That's complete rubbish in my opinion. Cena and Batista have both been involved in numerous good matches during their career and it's no co-incedence either. Both guys have a reasonable moveset and are very good at telling a story in a match and working the crowd. Both have exceptional pressence and huge charisma (Cena is particularly charismatic) and could easily warant a place in people's current top 3s. They ain't top stars for nothing!

dlofnep

slicus ricus wrote: »

That's complete rubbish in my opinion. Cena and Batista have both been involved in numerous good matches during their career and it's no co-incedence either. Both guys have a reasonable moveset and are very good at telling a story in a match and working the crowd. Both have exceptional pressence and huge charisma (Cena is particularly charismatic) and could easily warant a place in people's current top 3s. They ain't top stars for nothing!

They are still terrible mat wrestlers.

chopperbyrne

dlofnep wrote: »

They are still terrible mat wrestlers.

Batista isn't great technically, but Cena is quite good.

OrtonViper

slicus ricus wrote: »

That "work on the mic an all" is as important (if not more important) a wrestling ability as technical wrestling skills. A wrestler can do as many moonsaults or innovative suplexes as they want but if they can't link it all together and tell a story or work the crowd and have sufficient charisma to interest a crowd, then it means nothing!

I would have thought you were aware of this (and maybe you are) given the choices you've made in both top 3s! All of the guys you've picked were able to tell a story in a match, work the crowd and cut a good promo!



That's complete rubbish in my opinion. Cena and Batista have both been involved in numerous good matches during their career and it's no co-incedence either. Both guys have a reasonable moveset and are very good at telling a story in a match and working the crowd. Both have exceptional pressence and huge charisma (Cena is particularly charismatic) and could easily warant a place in people's current top 3s. They ain't top stars for nothing!

The guys that I picked are great mat wrestlers also where as Batista can't mat wrestle to save his life and Cena isn't as bad but still isn't good enough to be called a good mat wrestler

Muff_Daddy

Now:

1) Shawn Michaels
2) Chris Jericho
3) Edge

All Time:

1) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) Ric Flair
3) Bret Hart

chopperbyrne

OrtonViper wrote: »

The guys that I picked are great mat wrestlers also where as Batista can't mat wrestle to save his life and Cena isn't as bad but still isn't good enough to be called a good mat wrestler

Kurt Angle wrestles like a face even when he's a heel. That's just as bad as not being technically skilled in my opinion.

OrtonViper

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Kurt Angle wrestles like a face even when he's a heel. That's just as bad as not being technically skilled in my opinion.

Kurt Angle is a fantastic mat wrestler and no one can disagree with that leaving out the heel/face buissnes of wrestling

CMpunked

Ok going by pure wrestling skill IMO:

Today:
Edge
Cena
Angle

All time:
HHH(2001 over anything else)
Angle
Benoit

Special mention has to be made for RVD, there was never a dull moment with that mans involvement in a match.

DenMan

comic book guy

If you are going to go by wrestling skill alone then why do you have Edge ahead of Kurt Angle. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kurt is a machine.

CMpunked

DenMan wrote: »

comic book guy

If you are going to go by wrestling skill alone then why do you have Edge ahead of Kurt Angle. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kurt is a machine.

Ok first off that i dont have those names in proper order.
And also its just my opinion. I dont think kurt is a machine as you put it, he isnt as good as he once was, in saying that, he still is pretty good.

Fozzy

All-time:

Jumbo Tsuruta
Kenta Kobashi
Ric Flair

Today:

Bryan Danielson
Naomichi Marufuji
Randy Orton

john concannon

All Time
1. Ric Flair
2. Kenta Kobashi
3. C.B ( Don't think man deserves his full name to be acknowlegded but he was great technically)


Nowadays
1. Samoa Joe
2. Chris Jericho
3. Randy Orton

slicus ricus

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Kurt Angle wrestles like a face even when he's a heel. That's just as bad as not being technically skilled in my opinion.

I agree with that statement 100%! When Angle had that program with Cena a few years back where Angle was heel, he was getting cheered as a face and people were booing the sh*t out of Cena. This was the start of the hate-Cena culture and the primary reason for this was that Angle wrestled the matches as a face with big comebacks and fast-paced series of high impact moves. I still think that overall, Angle is a very good worker and that his skills in other areas make up for this weakness.

OrtonViper wrote:

Kurt Angle is a fantastic mat wrestler and no one can disagree with that leaving out the heel/face buissnes of wrestling

This is getting so frustrating. The "heel/face business of wrestling" is quite possibly the most important aspect of wrestling. It's what makes the entertainment part of sports entertainment. Essentially, it's what makes people care about the results of matches and allows the wrestlers to tell a story in a match.

Mat wrestling is only a part of the big picture of pro wrestling - if you want to see great mat wrestling, I suggest looking at amatuer wrestling from the olympics - it's mat wrestling and mat wrestling only - doesn't have any of the other aspects that you don't want to talk about!:rolleyes:

OrtonViper

If I wanted to find out who the best heel/face and who was the best entertainer, I would of asked that but thats not what I asked people.Yes it is an integral part of the buissnes but thats not what I asked

slicus ricus

OrtonViper wrote: »

If I wanted to find out who the best heel/face and who was the best entertainer, I would of asked that but thats not what I asked people.Yes it is an integral part of the buissnes but thats not what I asked

Your thread is entitled "best wrestler", the question you asked was who is the best wrestler. All of the areas I mentioned are integral parts to being a good wrestler - Well, pro wrestler anyway - afterall, this is the pro wrestling forum!

CMpunked

OrtonViper wrote: »

If I wanted to find out who the best heel/face and who was the best entertainer, I would of asked that but thats not what I asked people.Yes it is an integral part of the buissnes but thats not what I asked

Ok ill ask....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58443326#post58443326

Ortonviper, what do you constitute as being a good wrestler?

dlofnep

slicus ricus wrote: »

Your thread is entitled "best wrestler", the question you asked was who is the best wrestler. All of the areas I mentioned are integral parts to being a good wrestler - Well, pro wrestler anyway - afterall, this is the pro wrestling forum!

That's not wrestling, that's entertaining and has nothing to do with the technical aspects of "wrestling".

CMpunked

Has no one noticed that there has hardly been any sort of the wrestling you have been describing on wwe in the last 3/4 years.

With the exception of a handful of matches.

dlofnep

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Has no one noticed that there has hardly been any sort of the wrestling you have been describing on wwe in the last 3/4 years.

With the exception of a handful of matches.

Which is why it's notoriously awful.

Fozzy

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not wrestling, that's entertaining and has nothing to do with the technical aspects of "wrestling".

Yes it does. I'll throw in a perfect example: Josh Barnett. Technically he's very very good. He knows a ton of convincing looking moves and holds and he can switch between them really well. But on the face/heel thing he's clueless. He doesn't know how to pace a match at all. When he's being lead along by a good wrestler he looks great but when he's the one in control it falls apart horribly

I wouldn't call Josh Barnett a great wrestler because of that. There's got to be some sort of entertainment in the story of the match, otherwise it's just an exhibition of moves

slicus ricus

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not wrestling, that's entertaining and has nothing to do with the technical aspects of "wrestling".

Of course it does! Without pyschology, pro wrestling means nothing! It takes a huge amount of talent for a wrestler do their offense in way that tells a story. A top amateur wrestler could get into a WWE ring and execute 10 technically perfect suplexes in a row on a guy. What would that achieve? Nothing!

Fozzy wrote:

Yes it does. I'll throw in a perfect example: Josh Barnett. Technically he's very very good. He knows a ton of convincing looking moves and holds and he can switch between them really well. But on the face/heel thing he's clueless. He doesn't know how to pace a match at all. When he's being lead along by a good wrestler he looks great but when he's the one in control it falls apart horribly

I wouldn't call Josh Barnett a great wrestler because of that. There's got to be some sort of entertainment in the story of the match, otherwise it's just an exhibition of moves

Perfect example dude, says it all, i have nothing to add to it!

happyoutscan

NOW
1. Shelton Benjamin
2. HBK
3. Matt Hardy

ALL-TIME
1. Bret Hart
2. Randy Savage
3. Buddy Rogers

rossie1977

OrtonViper wrote: »

By the way if anyone says John Cena or Batista I think they should be banned

and you have randy orton in your top 3, oh the irony :rolleyes:

when orton drags people like umaga and bobby lashley to 4 star+ matches and gets a decent match out of khali you can then put orton on cenas level wrestling wise

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

All-time:

Jumbo Tsuruta
Kenta Kobashi
Ric Flair

Today:

Bryan Danielson
Naomichi Marufuji
Randy Orton

Post more often for the love of god Fozzy.

Mine would be

EVER.
1. Flair
2. Kobashi
3. Misawa

NOW

1. Danielson
2. Marufuji
3. Tie between Tanahashi amd Shingo Takagi

Honourable mention to El Generico.

Oh and the people mentioning Kurt Angle in either list made me puke a little in my mouth.

Rjd2

rossie1977 wrote: »

and you have randy orton in your top 3, oh the irony :rolleyes:

when orton drags people like umaga and bobby lashley to 4 star+ matches and gets a decent match out of khali you can then put orton on cenas level wrestling wise

Fair point but Umaga is no carry job, hes more than capable of having four star matches with anybody half decent.

Fozzy

I haven't seen much from Cena lately that I've liked. In 2007 he was great but he hasn't been nearly as good since from what I've seen. It's not like people are raving about any of his recent matches like they did about his matches with Michaels, Orton and others where they were expected to be bad

I have a ton of people who I could put on my list but I put Orton in there just so I wouldn't totally alienate most posters :pac: I haven't seen anything amazing from him lately but when I hear his music hit I have to admit that I get excited about seeing him. I think that he's the only WWE guy who I look forward to seeing at the moment

DenMan

Yeah Randy didn't even have to wrestle last Monday Night.

I miss Bobby Lashley.

Wonder will the WWE try and take Joe away from TNA?

*pictures in mind an awesome feud between the Undertaker and a heel Samoa Joe*

CMpunked

DenMan wrote: »

I miss Bobby Lashley.

Why miss black lesnar?

DenMan wrote: »

Wonder will the WWE try and take Joe away from TNA?

*pictures in mind an awesome feud between the Undertaker and a heel Samoa Joe*

Even if they made a crazy offer i cant see joe leaving his high position in TNA to become mid to high card in WWE