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A New Political Party: Manifesto suggestions...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    (1) All TD's salaries to be cut to 50K.

    (2) No more unvouched expenses and overhaul what can be claimed. Bare minimum in line with private sector.

    (3) Bye bye the 4,000 Euro/hour governent jet. See www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

    (4) "See this new chainsaw we bought??? We're taking this to public sector inefficiencies & cosy public sector jobs!"

    (5) Government state Mercs, get rid of them, www.buyandsell.ie for more info.

    (6) Paying 1 billion Euro a year in foreign aid. Yeah, we'll get back to you when we can afford it.

    (7) Payments to political parties, "eh, sorry lads, end of!"

    Please add as you see fit...!

    I don't see how a credible political party with the right people and a manifesto along the line of above couldn't get elected!


    A few big problems with some of these proposals.
    You can't expect someone to run for TD if all they get out of it is 50k ?
    The allowances and expenses should be looked at alright.
    The salary of taoiseach and ministers should be cut alright but not down to ridiculous amount that one could earn in 9 to 5 job.
    The number of junior ministers cut and the perks chopped, but you will get people even more willing to take backhanders if you cut salaries to 50k.
    Only minister get government cars and they are all environmentally friendly ones.
    Trying to sell mercs at this time won't be easy ;)
    If you stop payments to political parties then where do they get the money from, more dodgy developers ?
    If anything public funding is something that should be almost mandatory.
    BTW cut the leaders allowance for independents.
    T runner wrote: »
    40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
    Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
    This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

    Yeah we sure do need more females of the quality of Marys O'Rourke, Hannafin, Coughlan and Harney :rolleyes:
    Just noticed they are all bleedin Marys.
    Maybe more females but they can't be called Mary. :D
    murphaph wrote: »
    I would like to see our entire political system overhauled starting with the county councils;

    4) Encourage rationalisation of our farms. It is undoubtedly a legacy of british rule that we have such small pockets of barely viable farmland. We should see these farms amalgamated as happened across much of Europe.

    5) Develop Dublin, Cork, Limerick and possibly Waterford and Galway to proper city status. Encourage people to move to the cities and create the critical masses required. Immediately end one-off housing development which has destroyed large swathes of our once beautiful land. Invest large sums in these cities to make them beautiful, attractive urban spaces where people WANT to move to.

    Agree with the rest but not above :mad:.
    So how do you encourage the rationalisation of farming, perhaps you kick people off the land aka the Scottish highland clearances.
    Actually you are kinda socialist in thinking on that, but it would be more the form of socialism adoped by Joe Stalin and his collectivisation.
    So your great idea is to make everyone live in a city and even then you didn't notice Galway is already deemed a city, with a population as great as Limerick and a fair bit less negative publicity.
    Not everyone wants to live in a godawful sprawling small boxes of sameness housing estate e.g Lucan. Apologies to anyone that lives in Lucan.
    I see you are from Dublin, there is life beyond the pale you know :rolleyes:
    I can see your party's manifesto going down great with a few D4 types, but good luck trying to sell that to the rest of the country.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    This post has been deleted.

    I agree with the sentiment. But would you completely cut some social welfare benefits, or simply make them harder to get?

    As for the dole, I see no reason why those on it shouldnt have to do a bit of work for it or something. Even towards getting a job. But I agree with the dole in principle completely, its just so abused.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭adagio


    I think alot of the issues raised are legimate and there is definitely an appetite for change and recourse but the mood seems to be one of aspiration and not action. I think if you guys are serious about a new political entity the first question should be 'where would the grass-roots of the party lie?' and 'how should it be built?'
    Take a look at how the other political parties formed - during exceptional times. And guess what - we're entering exceptional times. So the conditions exist. Our cause is also helped by the fact that ruling political class is displaying a very elementary grasp of decision making, as they have become obsessed w/the playing of politics and the retention of power. Therefore, if ever a time existed to create a new party, outside that of a state at war, it is now. (Keep an eye on Declan's Libertas - me thinks that his interest in European Democracy is a subtext to launching a Domestic Party. But for the benefit of whom?)! :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    It's easy to make threads on boards.ie isn't it? I absolutely guarantee you we will not see Darragh29 as Taoiseach any time soon.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭HydeRoad


    So, you get a bunch of straight-down-the-middle, socially and idealogically minded people, who want to start a new political party, which will get back to the grass roots, and put the people first.

    How do you stop another bunch of people with vested and selfish interests from taking over and pulling the party away from it's 'raison d'etre,' leaving just another self interested and self protecting party, no different from anyone else?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    jmayo wrote: »
    Agree with the rest but not above :mad:.
    Fair enough. Don't vote for my new party! :D
    jmayo wrote: »
    So how do you encourage the rationalisation of farming, perhaps you kick people off the land aka the Scottish highland clearances.
    I'd reduce subsidies which artificially help non-viable farms to limp on at great cost to the taxpayer. In a world with an ever increasing demand for food a business that cannot survive making said food has got problems IMO.
    jmayo wrote: »
    Actually you are kinda socialist in thinking on that, but it would be more the form of socialism adoped by Joe Stalin and his collectivisation.
    Hardly-collectivisation was a process of nationalising all farmland. I'm not advocating that at all-quite the opposite in fact!
    jmayo wrote: »
    So your great idea is to make everyone live in a city and even then you didn't notice Galway is already deemed a city, with a population as great as Limerick and a fair bit less negative publicity.
    Galway only has a comparable population because the city boundary around Limerick is a relic of the past and doesn't reflect the situation on the ground as Limerick 'city' now eats into Clare and Limerick County. Anyway, I said 'proper city'-I'm aware that Galway is already a city in name.
    jmayo wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to live in a godawful sprawling small boxes of sameness housing estate e.g Lucan. Apologies to anyone that lives in Lucan.
    Urban living does not have to involve uniformly designed housing. Think outside the box! Look abroad for inspiration.
    jmayo wrote: »
    I see you are from Dublin, there is life beyond the pale you know :rolleyes:
    I can see your party's manifesto going down great with a few D4 types, but good luck trying to sell that to the rest of the country.
    Eh, apart from centralising all govt functions in Dublin (as they once were) I also advocated proper development of Cork, Limerick and maybe Waterford and Gaway. These places are all well outside the pale you know?!

    Anyway-a party focused on urban development of the above named cities would not need to sell itself to rural Ireland as it would get a majority of voters to pass a referendum to change the system of govt. The cities of Dublin (including greater Dublin), Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway have a combined population well able to deliver the numbers required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    It's easy to make threads on boards.ie isn't it? I absolutely guarantee you we will not see Darragh29 as Taoiseach any time soon.

    Nothing wrong with a little discussion. The biggest problem we have at the moment is that we are refusing to look at what we possibly could achieve, if the country was led and run by people who gave 2 f*cks about this country, as opposed to the trappings of the office they occupy.

    Every debate I've ever read or listened to about politics in Ireland, after 2 minutes of exposure, I've started hearing, "Ah that's left wing bullsh*t" and then in reply, "ah that's right wing bullsh*t", and on and on it goes. It seems to be that the bullsh*t of what we currently acknowledge as being "politics" immediately takes over any debate that might be possible.

    In recent years gone by, I remember heated discussions about FF as opposed to FG and folks voting along along free state or republican lines. If you wanted a 32 county Ireland, you voted FF and if you accepted a 26 county Ireland, you voted FG and so on and so on...

    In 2009, all this mentality is assigned to the past! We don't need to have this FF-FG/civil war debate anymore because the dispute has largely if not exclusively been settled now and it's now a matter for the people in the north to decide what they want to do with regard to what jurisdiction they want to live in, and the vast majority of us have agreed with that for the record when we voted for the Good Friday Agreement...

    What I'd love to be able to do is, start a fresh debate on what is best for Ireland and the people of Ireland. No left -vs- right or north -vs- south.

    A clean sheet discussion, we all know the problems, so what are the solutions...

    We have a major serious crime/gangland problem in Ireland, how will we sort it out???

    We have an dramatically escalating unemployment problem in Ireland, how will we sort it out???

    We have a problem with our healthcare system, how will we sort it out???

    We have a capacity problem with primary & secondary schools, how will we sort it out?

    I seriously think we need to start having very open discussions as a community about these things, because if the people we elected to sort these issues out for us or manage them to our satisfaction, could not resolve them when money was everywhere, then it is hard to see how the same people can resolve these serious issues when money is now extremely scarce???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    HydeRoad wrote: »
    So, you get a bunch of straight-down-the-middle, socially and idealogically minded people, who want to start a new political party, which will get back to the grass roots, and put the people first.

    How do you stop another bunch of people with vested and selfish interests from taking over and pulling the party away from it's 'raison d'etre,' leaving just another self interested and self protecting party, no different from anyone else?

    Hang on, let's just deal with the basics here for the moment, how to have a situation where the country is run by people who are not wrecking it. When we get to that point, we can worry about how to stop decent people who are running the country, turning into FF and the Greens, etc...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    On the issue of the dole, I would propose that food and clothes stamps be given out instead of cash, at least then it would not be spent down in the pub.

    I agree with your libertarian sentiment donegalfella however I disagree with the eradication of basic state services such as education and health.
    I believe that these should never be run by private profit making entities, I believe maximum efficiency and best possible value for money from these services should be a target.

    Also an alternative to prison must be found.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭Dark_lord_ire


    50k is nothing i earn more than that and after all there are the managers of the country should be at least 100k if not more but i do agree on the cutting back expenses. As for gov jet should be upgraded need top project a good image when a minister lands to talk business in another country


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I don't think the money is a factor in how a TD will vote on an issue. They operate as per the party whip, if they go against the whip, they are out of the party...
    You'd find yourself with a motion of no confidence every 6 months then, if you even managed to win the first one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    T runner wrote: »
    40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
    Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
    This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

    I don't have a copy of "Corú agus Riallacha Fhianna Fáil" to hand, but for Ard-Fheis each unit may send 3 delegates. 1 must be a man and one must be a woman, the third may be either. If you do not have a willing female your cumann, CC or CDC will only have 2 votes.

    Likewise, the Committee of 20, a directly elected body of non public rep members that sits on the Ardchomhairle, elected at an Ard-Fheis must consist of 10 men and 10 women. Last time 11 women and 18 men ran...meaning regardless of talent, 8 men were left without places whilst only one woman was left without a place.

    While in theory it is a good idea, it doesn't always provide the best quality in practice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    50k is nothing i earn more than that and after all there are the managers of the country should be at least 100k if not more but i do agree on the cutting back expenses. As for gov jet should be upgraded need top project a good image when a minister lands to talk business in another country

    I think this mentality is a large part of the problem. How on earth can anyone say that 50K a year is "nothing"???


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    Why don't they pay the tds amounts in line with other ec countries based on population? The people in power need to lead by example and people must follow. Wages need to be adjusted to what a country our size can afford not just during boom time


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Why don't they pay the tds amounts in line with other ec countries based on population? The people in power need to lead by example and people must follow. Wages need to be adjusted to what a country our size can afford not just during boom time

    Now we are getting to the real issues!

    Drop the benchmarking free for all and pay all Public Sector workers 85% of comparable salaries. The guarenteed Pensions make up the balance.

    Make a Science and Language subject compulsory for the Leaving Cert. Yes, that means dropping Irish as compulsory.

    Proper job performance rating in the Public Service. If you are a crap Teacher or Guard, Goodbye!

    Proper Cost/Benefit analysis of Infrastructural projects.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    I reckon we need to get the talent out in the Irish political society.
    I think we need to get female representation in politics out of the Fred Flintstone era and into the 21st century. 13% of female TDs is a joke.

    40% positive discrimination for female candidates for the new party.
    If the party gets in power bring it through for all parties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Could we just have the Conservatives here? I like the cut of Cameron's jib. The old arrogant Tory stuff seems mostly gone, replaced by a party manifesto I find hard to fault. I was watching him on TV this afternoon and he said he wants

    -family centred socialist attitudes like in Scandinavia
    -entrepeneurship as found in Silicon Valley
    -Manufacturing output of Germany
    -Strong, elected city mayors like in the US
    -A savings culture like Japan

    He said a lot more besides but when I compare this man to the gimps we have to choose from it depresses me. They at least have hope of recovery over the water. We're screwed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    anyone yet suggest legalizing cannabis ala Netherlands style?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I think this mentality is a large part of the problem. How on earth can anyone say that 50K a year is "nothing"???
    I'll say it loud and clear - try paying a mortgage & bringing up a couple of children on €50k!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    You're looking at it backwards. 50k is a good wage given our low direct taxation. The fact is we have ballooned the prices of just about everything (especially housing and childcare) to outrageous proportions so now 50k doesn't go anywhere near as far as it would in neighbouring countries who didn't price themselves out of competitiveness in a haze of property fueled mania.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    murphaph wrote: »
    Fair enough. Don't vote for my new party! :D

    I'd reduce subsidies which artificially help non-viable farms to limp on at great cost to the taxpayer. In a world with an ever increasing demand for food a business that cannot survive making said food has got problems IMO.

    Hardly-collectivisation was a process of nationalising all farmland. I'm not advocating that at all-quite the opposite in fact!

    Galway only has a comparable population because the city boundary around Limerick is a relic of the past and doesn't reflect the situation on the ground as Limerick 'city' now eats into Clare and Limerick County. Anyway, I said 'proper city'-I'm aware that Galway is already a city in name.

    Urban living does not have to involve uniformly designed housing. Think outside the box! Look abroad for inspiration.

    Eh, apart from centralising all govt functions in Dublin (as they once were) I also advocated proper development of Cork, Limerick and maybe Waterford and Gaway. These places are all well outside the pale you know?!

    Anyway-a party focused on urban development of the above named cities would not need to sell itself to rural Ireland as it would get a majority of voters to pass a referendum to change the system of govt. The cities of Dublin (including greater Dublin), Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway have a combined population well able to deliver the numbers required.

    Farmers do not get the price you pay in a shop for goods, most of it goes to the suermarket, the processors and not the grower or producer.
    Maybe if the price of food goes up then farmers can make a living and would not need subsidies.
    Hell lets scap agriculture, after all what does it contribute to the GDP ?

    What about people that do not want ot live in one of your fine urban centres ?
    You say maybe Galway.
    Infact you dismiss anything west or north of a line between Dublin to Limerick.
    Anyway, sure why would anyone want to live West of the Shannon (apart from the section of Limerick urban area that is in Clare) ?
    What about all the Dubs that bought homes in Mullingar, Gorey, Drogheda, etc. Would you force them to move back to the great metropolis ?
    You haven't really thought about the social side of this have you ?
    murphaph wrote: »
    Could we just have the Conservatives here? I like the cut of Cameron's jib. The old arrogant Tory stuff seems mostly gone, replaced by a party manifesto I find hard to fault. I was watching him on TV this afternoon and he said he wants

    -family centred socialist attitudes like in Scandinavia
    -entrepeneurship as found in Silicon Valley
    -Manufacturing output of Germany
    -Strong, elected city mayors like in the US
    -A savings culture like Japan

    He said a lot more besides but when I compare this man to the gimps we have to choose from it depresses me. They at least have hope of recovery over the water. We're screwed.

    Obviously you haven't heard about the 50k that certain rich people, including Dermot Desmond, paid to meet with Mr Cameron.
    It is a rather exclusive club, with no mention of what is being discussed or being promised in return for the 50k contribution.
    Added to that a big chunk of their funding has come from Lord Ashcroft's, deputy chairman of the Conservative party, rather large Belize empire.
    In other words party is getting funding from overseas which is supposedly not really allowed in UK.
    Cameron is a Tony Blair Lite, pure and simple. And we all know about the achivements of little old Tony.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    jmayo wrote: »
    Farmers do not get the price you pay in a shop for goods, most of it goes to the suermarket, the processors and not the grower or producer.
    Maybe if the price of food goes up then farmers can make a living and would not need subsidies.
    Hell lets scap agriculture, after all what does it contribute to the GDP ?
    The agri-foods sector (that is not pure agriculture by a long way!!) is very important to Ireland however claiming that a sector is important for GDP (implying it is succesful) and yet claiming it needs subsidy is ridiculous.
    jmayo wrote: »
    What about people that do not want ot live in one of your fine urban centres ?
    I'm not for forcing anyone at gunpoint. I am against subsidising rural living by urban dwellers (who generate the bulk of the nation's wealth). If the true cost of living (supplying services like ESB/phone/post/maintaining roads/running many more schools than is necessary etc. etc. etc.) in one-off housing or isolated estates was passed directly to the occupiers far fewer people would choose this lifestyle.
    jmayo wrote: »
    You say maybe Galway.
    Infact you dismiss anything west or north of a line between Dublin to Limerick.
    Anyway, sure why would anyone want to live West of the Shannon (apart from the section of Limerick urban area that is in Clare) ?
    What about all the Dubs that bought homes in Mullingar, Gorey, Drogheda, etc. Would you force them to move back to the great metropolis ?
    That would be up to them. I would be against subsidising their rural idyll alright. If they want to pay more for the extra cost of delivering services, go ahead.
    jmayo wrote: »
    You haven't really thought about the social side of this have you ?
    On the contrary, it is the selfish nature of one-off housing that is anathema to real social justice. Wanting urban dwellers to subsidise one's rural rustic lifestyle choice is selfish in the extreme!
    jmayo wrote: »
    Obviously you haven't heard about the 50k that certain rich people, including Dermot Desmond, paid to meet with Mr Cameron.
    It is a rather exclusive club, with no mention of what is being discussed or being promised in return for the 50k contribution.
    Added to that a big chunk of their funding has come from Lord Ashcroft's, deputy chairman of the Conservative party, rather large Belize empire.
    In other words party is getting funding from overseas which is supposedly not really allowed in UK.
    Cameron is a Tony Blair Lite, pure and simple. And we all know about the achivements of little old Tony.
    Any worse than fat cowen and his builder mates?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Seanies32 wrote: »
    Make a Science and Language subject compulsory for the Leaving Cert. Yes, that means dropping Irish as compulsory.

    Why?
    T runner wrote: »
    40% positive discrimination for female candidates for the new party.
    If the party gets in power bring it through for all parties.

    So even if the women are **** politicians they should get a head start??

    One of the claims against the government and something everybody wants is efficiency and good governance. But yet you suggest they be allowed in just cause of their gender?

    Jobs should be given by talent
    , not by gender, religion, race or other things that have no impact. We see some TD's getting in because their daddy had the seat (seat inheritance), do you approve of this too??


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    murphaph wrote: »
    That would be up to them. I would be against subsidising their rural idyll alright. If they want to pay more for the extra cost of delivering services, go ahead.
    Fair enough - assuming Dubliners are prepared to pay for their water. Where does that come from, again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Fair enough - assuming Dubliners are prepared to pay for their water. Where does that come from, again?
    Vartry, Poulaphouca and Leixlip.

    I'd happily pay for my water if rural dwellers paid the true cost of delivering services to them. In my family's commercial property we already have water metering so I expect it will be extended to private homes in time.

    I know however that the actual cost of delivering mains water to individual dwellings in Dublin (and other counties) is relatively low due to the higher densities involved so if it means the true cost of delivering services to one-off dwellers is borne by them, bring it on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Fair enough - assuming Dubliners are prepared to pay for their water. Where does that come from, again?
    Originally: from the sea.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'd happily pay for my water if rural dwellers paid the true cost of delivering services to them. In my family's commercial property we already have water metering so I expect it will be extended to private homes in time.

    On this particular subject, if I live in Dublin and want to live somewhere, I have to buy a house, stamp duty, etc, etc, etc.

    If I live in the country and my parents have land, I can build a house on a site they give me and pay no stamp duty whatsoever, is this right???


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