A New Political Party: Manifesto suggestions...

jmayo

murphaph wrote: »

Vartry, Poulaphouca and Leixlip.

I'd happily pay for my water if rural dwellers paid the true cost of delivering services to them. In my family's commercial property we already have water metering so I expect it will be extended to private homes in time.

I know however that the actual cost of delivering mains water to individual dwellings in Dublin (and other counties) is relatively low due to the higher densities involved so if it means the true cost of delivering services to one-off dwellers is borne by them, bring it on.

Speaking of paying, why not then start paying for the electrity that is transported across the country to Dublin ?
Moneypoint is in Clare, Tarbert is in Kerry both on West coast.
Also when Corrib gas field is connected, you can start paying extra for the gas and it's transport across the entire country to Dublin.
(that is a moot point since our government - bertie and Ray funny those two gentlemen were involved, sold out the gas in the first place to oil companies.
Then you can start paying more taxes for the upkeep of all the Gardai and fire services that are stationed in Dublin.
Why should a person living in say Leitrim pay for your local Garda station when there nearest one has been shut down ?

If you start looking at everything in purely fiscal terms and ultimately value for money, then how far do you take it ?
Do we do away with education for lots of people (those not smart enough, those disabled etc), since it is waste isn't it ?
Do we stop health services for those terminally ill, since they are not going to get better, after all it could be seen as money not so well spent ?
BTW it takes all sorts to make a state, a country, and a nation.

jank

If you start looking at everything in purely fiscal terms and ultimately value for money, then how far do you take it ?
Do we do away with education for lots of people (those not smart enough, those disabled etc), since it is waste isn't it ?
Do we stop health services for those terminally ill, since they are not going to get better, after all it could be seen as money not so well spent ?

Thats a good point. Its all well and good to think of things purely in numbers but thats a slippery slope. Just ask the Nazi's
I cant think of any country that taxes rural people more then urban.
If you have actaully lived in the country you know it is far from a countryside subsidised utopia that you make it out to be.

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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40% of candidates should be female. Most parties actually will have a quota of 30% for the forthcoming local elections. Do you disagree with this also?

(not FF but they assure us theyre working on this issue "at all levels".)


And here are some typical obstacles:

• The prevalence of the “masculine model” of political life and of elected governmental bodies;
• The lack of party support, such as limited financial support for women candidates; limited access to political
networks; and the prevalence of double standards;
• The lack of contact and cooperation with other public organizations such as trade (labour) unions
and women's groups;
• The absence of well-developed education and training systems for women's leadership in general,
and for orienting young women toward political life in particular; and
• The nature of the electoral system, which may or may not be favourable to women candidates.

Heres an interesting quote from a Swedish MP

"The most interesting aspect of the Swedish Parliament is not that we have
45 per cent representation of women, but that a majority of women and men
bring relevant social experience to the business of parliament. This is what
makes the difference. Men bring with them experience of real life issues, of
raising children, of running a home. They have broad perspectives and greater
understanding. And women are allowed to be what we are and to act
according to our own unique personality. Neither men nor women have to
conform to a traditional role. Women do not have to behave like men to have
power; men do not have to behave like women to be allowed to care for their
children. When this pattern becomes the norm then we will see real change.»"


The fact that the 2 main political parties have a tendency to favour male candidates (often sons to replace TDs) means that the Dail will continue to be filled with untalented members who by in large have only limited life experience.

We can go through a process of 80 years like Sweden did to get to their 45% representation or we can accelerate it in tandem with other initiatives by using quotas.

Permabear

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Het-Field

-Abolition of a wide range of taxes (motor, stamp duty etc)
-Further cuts to Income Tax and Corpo Tax
-Increase tax on goods or Decrease if Income tax remians the same
-Reign In on Public Spending
-Zero tolerance on corruption in Public Life
-Give Precedence to Private Rights (Civil Marriage/Soft Drugs/Inviolability of the dwelling)
-Remove the fetters on Freedom of Expression which exist in the constitution
-Abolition of legislation which coerces people to act/think a certain way
-Removal of any form of Quota system vis jobs, or candidate selection.
-The enactment of 24 hour licencing.
-Removal of Ireland from the Koyoto Protocol
-Mandatory sentencing/Minimum Sentencing
-The Gradual Phasing out of the common agricultural Policy
-Life Sentences for Murder, Rape, Heroin dealing, and the holding of certain types of illegal firearms
-Reform of the Leaving Certificate and Junior Certificate Examinations
-Placing subjects like Speech and Drama, Political Science, Legal Systems and Methods, Physical Education, Sociology on the curriculum
-Investigation into a variety of methods to quell the need for 3rd Level Tuition fee reintroduction
-Removal of all Development Aid from countries who are not equipped to use it. Tax Breaks for companies who trade with 3rd World countries who help to build effective economies in these countries.
-Full deregulation of Dublin Bus and CIE
-Consider competition for Irish Rail
-Heavy Clamp down on benefit fraud.
-Avail of the large scale benefits of nuclear power while considering all other types of energy
-Abolish the banning of 2nd Licence Drivers from taking to the road on their own
-Heavy penalties for Banks who engage in Predatory lending
-Heavy Penalties for Anglo Irish Bank should they manage to buy themselves back
-Heavy Penalties for any bank who has availed of recapitalisation.
-Full Referenda on some of the most controversial issues in Ireland. (The Definition of Marriage, Abortion, European Treaties (vesting the right of the Government to ratify without consulting the populace).


But most of this is ideologically based, and is very unlikely to happen !!!

ionix5891

Het-Field wrote: »

-Removal of Ireland from the Koyoto Protocol
!!!

i would agree with most of them points but why the above?

putting in a single nuclear plant and closing a few coal and peat plants would go a long way to reducing our carbon emissions

Permabear

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ionix5891

Het-Field wrote: »

-Placing subjects like Speech and Drama, Political Science, Legal Systems and Methods, Physical Education, Sociology on the curriculum!!!

whats needed is a mandatory science subjects, theres an acute lack of science and engineering graduates in industry, but there are plenty of arty farty wasters

P. Breathnach

I am not a member of any political party. I have a set of political beliefs that I do not think anybody would consider extremist. I am seriously dissatisfied with the performance of most of our politicians. So my support is potentially available to a new party.

The rag-bag of proposals made here seems to me for the most part to be worse than what we already have to endure.

Het-Field

Some other policies !!!

-Reform of Local Government. Abolition of Town Councils, Downsizing of County Councils. Removing the power of the Dail to legislate on local matters, and vesting it in the reformed County Council. No national politican should be filling pot holes, and sorting out local matters which should be administed at a local level. We will never have statesmen until we have politicians working for the state as a whole.

-Expenses of County Councils, and the Councillors should be heavily scrutanized. There should be no question of Cllrs attending events, signing in and then leaving immediatly, and then claiming major expenses

-There should be a review of the number of Senior and Junior Ministers and Governmental Committees. There should be no question that the "jobs for the boys" mentality should be maintained

-Abolition of the Seanad, or major reform. At very least the concept of Taoiseach's nominees, and the limited nature of election for the education panel should be reformed.

-Tribunals should be upgraded in their ability to impose criminal sanctions. Im not sure how that can be achieved.

-The Creation of the Position of Surgeon General to work with the Government on matters of Health Services

With respect to the other posters (sorry, i dont know how to use several quotes in one reply !)

To Ionix

1.I would like to see Ireland remove itself from the Kyoto Protocol as it is simply a goodwill pact which can result in the draining of millions of euros from the state. Individual companies should pay for carbon indiscretions, not the taxpayer. The state should be placing its own environmental safeguards. No international convention, treaty, or protocol should be utilised in this manner.

To Donegalfella

I would like to see the process of abolition of the CAP occur in a far speedier manner. The government have been tip toing around the issue, and this will have serious negative ramifications when the time comes for its end. It has been wrong that for so many yeas the EU have been subsidising small farmers, while by extension, keeping the farmers in the 3rd world down.

With the "Life Sentence"...I would maintain that the state should introduce a life sentence without parole. This could be invoked for clearcut murder cases.For the other offenses that I have mentioned, I would utilise the Life sentence as it is now i.e 15 years or so. While I understand that murder is especially dispicable, I feel that the other crimes could run tantamount to murder. Holding of illegal firearms would not relate to the individual who holds a minor firearm without a licence to shoot foxes on his farm, I am talking about heavy machine guns, and those traditionally used to affect other criminal offences. I realise that rape is another sensative area, and it is not always clearcut. Hence, a full review and reform of the law is necessary.

Reform of the leaving certificate would be more for intrinsic purposes. The Leaving Certificate is far too focused on the most mathamatical subjects. Look at those who get 9 A1s.. Each year, the vast majority have sat Maths,Applied Maths, Accounting, Physics, Ecnomics and Chemistry. It is time that those who have a flair for a more philosophical dimension are given a chance. As a result, the Department of Education can stimulate interests in a wide range. That is not to say that subjects like science and engineering and maths should not be further investigates, and placed on a wider scale.
I would equally feel that there should be no compulsory subjects, and there should be a consideration to staggering the subjects over two years, this allowing for a more in depth study of the individual subjects. The leaving cert should not be about learning things off by heart.

I realise the points made with regard learner drivers, however, I feel that it can be an important training tool for people to be allowed out on their own in the car. As you know, driving tests can be failed for a number of reasons..including faulty apparatus, and lack of knowledge of the engine.

Permabear

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T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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You ignore the fact that we have 13% female TDs the lowest in Western Europe. The Obstacle to Mary Robinson's election was only removed by the timing of Brian Lenihans demise. This flukey brekthrough has not being replicated in the Dail.

What exactly is this "masculine model" of elected government bodies? What would an alternative "feminine model" of political life look like?

I wouldnt advocate a gender based model at all:

Men dominate the political arena; men largely formulate the rules of the political game; and men often define the standards for evaluation. Furthermore, political life is organized according to male norms and values and in some cases, even male lifestyles. The political model is based on the idea of “winners and losers”, competition and confrontation, rather than on mutual respect, collaboration and consensus building. This environment is often alien to women. The existence of this male-dominated model results in either women rejecting politics altogether or rejecting male-style politics. Thus, when women do participate in politics, they tend to do so in small numbers.



Heres some obsticales she may find in the two more traditional political parties:

Although political parties possess resources for conducting election campaigns, women do not benefit from these resources. For example, parties do not provide sufficient financial support for women candidates. The number of women nominees correlates very highly with the number of elected women MPs: for Ireland more candidates equals more TDs. The selection and nomination process within political parties is also biased against women in that “male characteristics” are emphasized and often become the criteria in selecting candidates. An “old boys’ club” atmosphere and prejudices inhibit and prohibit politically inclined women from integrating themselves into their party's work. This results in an underestimation of women as politicians by those who provide money for election campaigns, thus further hindering women from being nominated.

I didn't know all women had "our own unique personality." Most women I know have very different personalities.

Women would tend to work out decision making on mutual respect, collaboration and consensus building rather than the current political model of “winners and losers”, competition and confrontation.

For the record, 3 of the 11 candidates standing for election in my constituency in the 2007 General Election were women. They all lost.

I seem to remember you previously mentioned a FG candidate in your home constituency of Donegal who was the husband of a daughter of the previous TD!!!!!

You see the fact that all 3 women lost as significant: this is interesting. There is a belief in PPs that men are more electable than women (another obstacle for them.) The fact that you seem to believe this should confirm it to you as an obstacle for women. It may result in women candidates being placed in a situation where they have no chance of being elected.

These things aren't going to change any time soon and quotas are internationally accepted as a way of accelerating the process of more potential female politicians taking up the career.

This may break the nepotism and "old boys club" mentality among the main 2 parties and others and encourage a more talented and knowledgeable type of candidtae regardless of sex.

Permabear

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K4t

T runner wrote: »

40% positive discrimination towards females standing for elections for all parties.
Works for progressive countries like Holland and Sweden.
This might brake the cycle of largely untalented guys from 1) (largely in FF and FG) and encourage a new type of male and female politician.

Two wrongs don't make a right! That would be a step backwards. I don't know of any laws at the moment stopping women from running for election. In fact the last time I checked, we have a female President and Tanaiste.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

End to co-location and real HSE reform.
Full investigation into practices involved in the privatisation of the health services and convictions if necessary.

TD's salaries to the average industrial wage alternatively.
.

How about just NOT having a privatised health system?
I see no problem with TDs earning €50,000p.a. not including expenses. Most will then earn around the €100,000 mark which is reasonable in my opinion.

donegalfella wrote: »

We demonize "the wealthy"—including those who have worked hard to educate themselves, advance their careers, and/or build their own businesses—and we tell them that have a moral obligation to support those who would happily doss around on the dole while trying to win the Lotto. There is something seriously wrong with that model.
.

No, What people resent is seeing people like Bat O'Keefe as Minister for Education, Bertie Ahern living it up with the Builders, Bev Flynn taking everything she can when people are being laid off all around the country, TDs living in Dublin running up expenses totaling €89,000, the government trying to use the elderly to bail out Sean Fitzpatrick , accurately described as a 'little bastard' by Gene Kerrigan, and his cronies in the banks who bled this country dry in the name of bigger Christmas bonuses for them and their employees. THESE are the things that the Irish people resent and it needs to stop now.

ionix5891 wrote: »

whats needed is a mandatory science subjects, theres an acute lack of science and engineering graduates in industry, but there are plenty of arty farty wasters

Arts degrees have one of the highest failure rates in Irish Universities so the people just doing it for a 'doss' are losing out themselves.
Arts degrees are one of the greatest things about third level education in Ireland for a whole host of reasons which I won't go into as I'd be hear all night. Science is mandatory for the Junior Cert and plenty of people do it for the LC, moreso than those doing history/business/accounting in my experience. If they don't want to pursue it at 3rd level then you can hardly force them can you?

murphaph

jmayo wrote: »

Speaking of paying, why not then start paying for the electrity that is transported across the country to Dublin ?

No problem. It's much more cost effective (cheaper) to transport electricity at high voltage to big cities than to distribute it to rural housing. Why do you think rural electrification came way later than the cities?

jmayo wrote: »

Moneypoint is in Clare, Tarbert is in Kerry both on West coast.

...and Poolbeg is in Dublin 4...totally irrelevant because it's still far more cost effective to transport electricity to cities and distribute it to dense housing with much lower loss than to distribute it to one-off rural housing. It's also cost effective to bury electricity suppy underground (aesthetically much more pleasing than every country lane lined with poles and wires) than it is in a rural setting. I don't believe for one second you think that electricity would be much more expensive to transport from the west coast to Dublin than say from the midlands to Dublin. Electricity isn't like moving coal.

jmayo wrote: »

Also when Corrib gas field is connected, you can start paying extra for the gas and it's transport across the entire country to Dublin.

Again, no problem. If there were no big cities in Ireland then no gas would be piped anywhere. It's the existence of the cities and their densities that make gas exploration and pipelining viable in this country. Do you think they'd explore the Corrib field for the local Mayo market of the cities didn't exist?? lol.

jmayo wrote: »

Then you can start paying more taxes for the upkeep of all the Gardai and fire services that are stationed in Dublin.

Why should a person living in say Leitrim pay for your local Garda station when there nearest one has been shut down ?
Once again I must inform you that NO GARDA STATIONS OR ANYTHING ELSE IN DUBLIN IS PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS FROM OUTSIDE DUBLIN! Dublin is ENTIRELY self sufficient wrt taxation and spending. Dublin in fact sends about a billion euro annually to places like Leitrim and Mayo. Cork also sends money to you as that county is able to pay its way also.

jmayo wrote: »

If you start looking at everything in purely fiscal terms and ultimately value for money, then how far do you take it ?
Do we do away with education for lots of people (those not smart enough, those disabled etc), since it is waste isn't it ?
Do we stop health services for those terminally ill, since they are not going to get better, after all it could be seen as money not so well spent ?
BTW it takes all sorts to make a state, a country, and a nation.

Emotional BS. People CHOOSE to live in one-off rural housing. People do not choose to be mentally handicapped or terminally ill. We must look after such unfortunate people. Comparing such people to rural one-off housing occupants as if they are victims on the same level is pretty bad form in fact.

Do you think rural one-off housing occupants should have their lifestyle choice subsidised by the taxpayer? It is a simple matter of fact that rural one-off housing costs much more to service than cities. It is an undeniable truth and actually it is plain common sense.

mumhaabu

I firmly believe we need a new political party and I would base it along these lines:

Major reducation in taxes and introduction of flat taxes

VRT abolished, Co2 system abolished flat tax of between €300 to €500 for everything from a Nissan Micra to Gas Guzzling Hummer. All Fuelduty, road tax and revenue collected from the motorist to be ploughed into the roads network.

Corporation Tax reduced to 5%
VAT to 15%

Public sector headcount to be reduced by 75%
Harsh penalties for political corruption

Immediate 1 year jail term for anyone caught in possession of any drug, 5 years for 2nd offence and life for third.
Reintroduce the death penalty, with Rape, Murder and Treason and Political treason.

Removal of political correctness and and affirmative action
Protection for our Christian heritage and protection of Christmas.
Withdraw Ireland from Kyoto and stop paying fines for something that is not even proven.

Social Welfare reform, Irish citizens born to Irish parents should only qualify for full social welfare, all other should be given around €200/month. The amount of foreigners bleeding the dole dry is astonishing, this has to end charity begins at home with our own kit and kin.

Increased privatisation of the Health Service, I stupidly allowed a procedure I am waiting for to go through the Public Health service and am now waiting one year, I now plan to fly to Belgium shortly to get it done there instead privately.

Increased policing and arming of the Gardai, military presence in Limerick and Dublin and shoot first and ask questions later.

The reform of Irish citizenship, Irish citizens born in Ireland to Irish citizens to become Citizens and all others to be naturalised citizens giving greater priviliges to our own people.

The right of every Irish citizen to own, bear and posess any type of weapon they wish. All citizens to be given the right to use lethal force to protect themselves and their families from intruders and criminals.

Change the way secondary education is taught with more emphasis on practical work, abolish the leaving and junior certificate and instead grade a pupil throughout his schooling term

Abolish all student grants and instead use the money to build higher centres of learning with emphasis on R&D. It is such a waste of money as millions of euros is given to students who never achive nothing and could barely tell you what the capital of Ireland is, millions that could be put into R&D gets wasted on Buckfast and Dominos pizza.

Outsourcing of CIE with all links to public sector axed, fares to be reduced and service increased it is a public service not a cash cow like the current gov treats it. This can be paid for by massive reductions in payments to large farmers, small farmers earning €40k a year or less in disadvatged crappy areas like connemara to be supported indefinatly otherwise it would be like the highland clearances,

Full Nationalisation of all Irish banks to weather out the current crisis this will give the gov control over lending which led to the boom bust cycle. If half the soft money was not available then we would have got an easier landing.

Full Protection for the unborn and a complete ban on abortion using another referendum.

LGBT issues can remain status quo but no civil partnerships or moves towards marriage. A constitutional amendment clearly stating Marraige is between and Man and a Woman.

All Ireland fibre optic network to every nook and cranny.

Teaching of Morality in schools and less pc bullcrap, people wonder why society is in bad shape it is because kids are not being thought right from wrong and are generally not disiplined. Fine for parents of unruly teenagers and eviction from public housing and all welfare payments cut off where applicable.

Immigration reform, Ireland must close its door to immigration from Eastern Europe, Africa and China, we cannot sustain immigration when there now is not enough work for the natives never mind johnny foreigner. Immediate deportation for all illegals and those convicted of serious crimes such as rape, murder, DUI and Robbery.

If we adopt these measures Ireland will rise to the very forefront of Europe and can become a great nation. However once Fianna Fail can line the pockets of Property Developers and their own corrupt hands then it will not happen. We need to oust these crooks now!

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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If youre not ignoring it then why dont you explain it?

The whole idea of democracy is inseparable from the idea of competition. Candidates put themselves and their policies before the electorate, people cast their votes, and the outcome determines the winners and the losers.

I would agree that democratic elections are necessarily a competition but they are only a part of the political structure. Decisions are best made by collaboration and consensus building not by shouting matches and agression.

Barack Obama will be inaugurated as the president of the United States in a fortnight's time because he won a competitive and often confrontational election, while John McCain will not become president because he lost.

Again the underhand tactics used by McCain towards the end of the campaign would be an example of agressive male electioneering which would not encourage females to enter politics. Im aware the Clintons werent angels in the democratic primary either.

How would you go about creating a political model based on "collaboration"? Would you abolish competitive elections entirely? How do you avoid ending up with some one-party communist state? How do we determine who is in government and who is not?

Again your your confusing political elections with a political model.

What about successful female politicians like Margaret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, and Mary Harney? Did they embrace "male-style politics"?

Yes, but they were exceptions. Thats 3 out of how many men occupying similar positions? Thousands?

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Fianna Fáil's Cecelia Keaveney ran for re-election in my constituency in 2007, after serving as a TD for ten years. She had loads of posters, a huge entourage, and was the obvious Fianna Fáil party favourite for the constituency. Meanwhile, Dr. Jim McDaid was ostracized by the same party and did not receive his fair share of party support or money. He told the newspapers after the election that Fianna Fáil gave him no help during his campaign, and that he effectively had run as an independent. However, he retained his seat while Keaveney lost hers.

Well a one off didnt prove the rule. The manner of McDaids falling out FF and his sunsequent ostracising would be typical of the political shenanigans that would be unattractive to most potential female politicians. McDaid fell fowl of the old boys club.
Might be a rare case where a female benefitted (almost) from an "old boys club" mentality. This type of ****ehawking would be difficult if the old boy mentality was gone.

What exactly are these "male characteristics" that are so important? I think parties want to select candidates who are smart, articulate, persuasive, and charismatic, don't you? Are those "male" characteristics?

Parties want to select candidates that will win them seats.

Not really. I have already mentioned the first woman, Cecilia Keaveney (the daughter of former Independent Fianna Fáil TD Paddy Keaveney, by the way). She won a Dáil seat in the 1997 and 2002 general elections, so she is hardly unelectable. But she lost her seat in 2007. The second woman was Labour's Siobhan McLaughlin, who earned only 703 first-preference votes, mostly because Donegal North-East has never been a Labour Party stronghold and because McLaughlin wasn't a particularly strong candidate. The final woman was Mary Doherty of the Christian Solidarity Party, a determined campaigner on moral issues whose extremist views don't endear her to many. She got only 339 first-preference votes. Keaveney's loss was a surprise in the constituency, as was the poll-topping performance of Fine Gael's Joe McHugh. The other two candidates, McLaughlin and Doherty, didn't lose because they were women—they lost because their politics and personalities didn't appeal to the electorate. There's a difference.

Ill point out again that only 13% of TDs are women.
Do you not think this represents a problem?
3 female candidates out of how many? 20, more? Why so few???

(Only one with any chance BTW and that only because one of the male candidates fell out of favour with the old boys in FF!)

If you have a political set up which is more condusive to women entering politics then you will have more talented women and therefore more talented politicians.
In fairness the lifestyle of a current TD suits a male life: very long hours, late meetings, etc means that your typical TD is a married man who has a wife at home looking after the house and kids etc. (It also means he has no practical experience of these things)

Your typical traditional man, in other words. By necessity, if hes a family man who shares his time at home with a working wife hes not really going to be able to be a TD is he?

Are the hours a TD works really suitable for females? How about services, child care facilities and so on? What happens if she gets pregnant as a TD?

Yes there are more than a few obstacles for women in Irish politics

Permabear

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