Freezing cold gable end in 5 year old house

eamon234

We've got a bungalow with two bedrooms and an ensuite at the southwest facing gable end - these rooms are absolutely freezing in cold weather I've topped up the insulation in the attic but it makes no difference this is a reasonably new house - could this be because the walls weren't insulated properly? Rest of the house is fine.

What type of construction is the house?

There could be several reasons for the cooling effect, you need to check for;

draughts - there could be a hole in the wall where a pipe comes through that was not properly sealed for example, it could be that the cavity has become vented and cold air is getting into the rooms via electric sockets.

Wall vents could be unbaffled, causing the wind (from the west) to blow streight into the room.

Poor wall insulation or poorly installed insulation will certainly allow heat to escape.

MicktheMan

Eamon,
need a bit more information.
What type of wall construction?
What type of windows?
What type of floor?
How are the rooms heated?
Is the house sheltered from the elements?
How airtight is the house (is it draughty)?
What type of lighting in the rooms (surface mounted or recessed)?

eamon234

Standard insulated cavity wall afaik with PVC windows double glazed, concrete floor and heated by regular oil radiators - that end of the house is somewhat open to the elements all right.

RKQ

South-west gable is interesting - considering it gets most of the sun during the day - Solar gain. (well when it shines!)

I agree with the above. Draughts, vents, and poorly installed wall insulation comes to mind.
Could it be that 60mm aeroboard was used in the walls? (5 years on a transitional Planning grant date dwelling - abit of a stretch but I've seen it used up to afew years ago!)

Scope into cavity from attic or remove afew gable blocks in attic to check cavity below.

No6

Try opening the ESB meter box and looking at the cable intakes to see what insulation you've got in the cavity, much easier than removing blocks:eek: !!!

PJMCKE

I also have a freezing gable end and have not paid too attention much towards it till we now have a infant baby. The house was constructed in 1999 and is semi detached. The house is constructed of block but the gable end has a block inner leaf with a brick outer leaf. The gable end is where our kitchen is and on removing the air vents I could not find any insulation between the brick and block. On the inside the wall is plaster board with a layer of rockwool type insulation. This room is constantly cold when the rest of the house is warm.Ironically the brick is only used on the gable end.
I have a few questions.
a) Should there have been insulation between the two layers in building regs from that date/ period of 1999.
b) Has anyone any recommendation on insulation (foam/bead or other) to improve the room.

Lastly the floor in this room is also the same. Is there anyway of finding out the insulation under the screed. The floor is currently tiled but am going to change this due to the coldness of the floor.

RKQ

PJMCKE wrote: »

a) Should there have been insulation between the two layers in building regs from that date/ period of 1999.

Nn, not necessarily - it depends on the type and thickness of insulaion used as dry-lining. Traditional cavity constructed wall would have had 55mm / 65mm thick aeroboard insulation in the cavity, circa 1999.

PJMCKE wrote: »

b) Has anyone any recommendation on insulation (foam/bead or other) to improve the room.

Rockwool fibre, blown in under pressure seems to be better that bead. I couldn't recommend Foam. The cavity should be 100mm wide.
Ensure the insulation has an IAB cert. Takes approx 4 - 5 hours to pump insulation into an average semi.

PJMCKE wrote: »

Lastly the floor in this room is also the same. Is there anyway of finding out the insulation under the screed.

You could drill a hole in the floor under a kitchen unit or fridge, dig down about 6 inches. You should find 55mm - 65mm thick aeroboard.

Certificates should exist, that certify compliance with Building Control. Wall and floor insulation would be required to comply with the Regulations in 1999.

MacTheKnife1

RKQ wrote: »

Rockwool fibre, blown in under pressure seems to be better that bead.

Are you sure about this?

From the IAB certs for Rockwool and Ecobead...The thermal conductivity ’λ’ value’ of:

EcoBead Cavity Wall Insulation material may be taken as 0.04 W/mK for the purpose of U value calculations.

EcoBead Platinum Cavity Wall Insulation material may be taken as 0.033 W/mK for the purpose of U value calculations.

Rockwool Blown Cavity Wall Insulation material may be taken as 0.04 W/(mK) for the purpose of U value calculations.

Conclusion: Ecobead and rockwool are just as good as each other but ecobead platinum wins???

PJMCKE

RKQ wrote: »

Nn, not necessarily - it depends on the type and thickness of insulaion used as dry-lining. Traditional cavity constructed wall would have had 55mm / 65mm thick aeroboard insulation in the cavity, circa 1999.


Rockwool fibre, blown in under pressure seems to be better that bead. I couldn't recommend Foam. The cavity should be 100mm wide.
Ensure the insulation has an IAB cert. Takes approx 4 - 5 hours to pump insulation into an average semi.

Certificates should exist, that certify compliance with Building Control. Wall and floor insulation would be required to comply with the Regulations in 1999.

Thanks again RKQ.Very usefull information

A silly question but where can I get the building certs. Is it a case of approaching the developer or the lender holding the deeds?.
I will definately go down the rockwool and if anyone knows of suppliers in the kildare region please PM me their details.
Regards,
P.J.

RKQ

MacTheKnife1 wrote: »

Are you sure about this?

From the IAB certs for Rockwool and Ecobead...

Yes, Mac thats my opinion.
I've seen both used and I would only recommend Rockwool. Thermal conductivity is good but not always the most important factor. I have not heard anything bad or worrying about Rockwool.

This recommendation is IMO the lesser of two Evils as a retrofit option. - New build then I reccommend using foil insulation board built into a traditional cavity wall.

Of couse we are all entitled to our own opinions. Different opinions are welcome and just as valid as mine. Its all about good free honest advice...

MacTheKnife1

RKQ wrote: »

I have not heard anything bad or worrying about Rockwool.

Can I assume that you have heard bad stuff then about ecobeads?? Can u share or point me to a thread where you or others may have discussed it? Am thinking of using ecobead platinum and assumed it was better than rockwool, based on the thermal characteristics.

Thanks,
Mac

RKQ

PJMCKE wrote: »

Thanks again RKQ.Very usefull information

A silly question but where can I get the building certs. Is it a case of approaching the developer or the lender holding the deeds?.
I will definately go down the rockwool and if anyone knows of suppliers in the kildare region please PM me their details.
Regards,
P.J.

P.j how wide is the cavity?

A Certificate of Compliance with Building Control should have been provided by previous owner or Developer. Enquire with your Solicitor, who may have a copy on file. (If its a Homebond registered dwelling, then you will have been issued with a number of Homebond documents. Check your files)

IAB cert will ensure a material has been tested to a standard. The Irish Aggrement Board publish their certificates, after testing. They are also published as pdf on net.
Manufactures / Installers usually have copies of their IAB cert, which they are happy to give to customers.

As regards Rockwool v's Ecobead, its as said above - personal opinion. Ecobead is fine in new build (if you believe its ok to fill the cavity with either product). I would not recommend either with clay brick walls, quoins or arch etc.

Hopefully happy customers of both products will contribute here.

PJMCKE

RKQ wrote: »

P.j how wide is the cavity?

A Certificate of Compliance with Building Control should have been provided by previous owner or Developer. Enquire with your Solicitor, who may have a copy on file. (If its a Homebond registered dwelling, then you will have been issued with a number of Homebond documents. Check your files)

IAB cert will ensure a material has been tested to a standard. The Irish Aggrement Board publish their certificates, after testing. They are also published as pdf on net.
Manufactures / Installers usually have copies of their IAB cert, which they are happy to give to customers.

As regards Rockwool v's Ecobead, its as said above - personal opinion. Ecobead is fine in new build (if you believe its ok to fill the cavity with either product). I would not recommend either with clay brick walls, quoins or arch etc.

Hopefully happy customers of both products will contribute here.

RKQ,
The cavity is 100mm between brick outer and block inner leaf. Followed by 60mm of rockwoll and vapour membrane and plasterboard. Did you just say that both products would not be recommended for clay brick walls. Is there a reason for this and does it still hold where the inner leaf is block and outer is brick.
P.J.

Poor Uncle Tom

Not answering for RKQ, but I think he is referring to the fact that the clay brick outer leaf will soak rain and moisture like a sponge keeping the inside of the outer leaf wet at all times. Quilt and Bead insulations can allow moisture to breach to the inner leaf and show up as damp patches on the inside, or at the very least reduce the insulation capacity of the quilt or bead and the inner leaf.

Is it possible for you to provide external insulation to the gable and provide a rendered finish to the outside to match the rest of the house?

RKQ

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Not answering for RKQ, but I think he is referring to the fact that the clay brick outer leaf will soak rain and moisture like a sponge keeping the inside of the outer leaf wet at all times. Quilt and Bead insulations can allow moisture to breach to the inner leaf and show up as damp patches on the inside, or at the very least reduce the insulation capacity of the quilt or bead and the inner leaf.
quote]

Thanks Uncle Tom, you took the words right out of my month.

Clay brick will soak water. Once the insulation is installed it can't be removed - be very careful...

I'd be looking for cast iron guanantees from the manufacturer & installer ( and even then I have a pinch of salt closeby!) If damp patches appear then plastering over the brick may be the only solution!

Cavity construction was invented for a reason, over many decades in our damp, wind driven rainy climate.

Heatherview

Hi Eamonn234
I agree with the answers you have recieved.
are your radiators suitable for room sizes?
Do the rads feel hot when heating is on?
Check under window boards you may have a draught coming in, light match and test for draught?
also check at plugs they can let down some draught at times?
Heatherview

burberry

just wondering can anyone give me some advice as to wat type of insulation to put in attic, just in new house year now i know it should have been long ago, but money was tight at the time. Thanks in advance.

topcatcbr

Fibre glass or rock wool would be fine and should be laid in two layers. The first layer is the depth of ceiling joists and fitted between. usually 100mm or 150mm (or something very close) and the next layer is fitted in the opposite direction. The two layers should give a total depth of 250mm minimum. and all areas of the ceiling should be covered except under the water tank. This should be insulated over and around. Make sure not to block the ventilation from the eaves vents. a min of 50mm continuous ventilation along rafters is required.