change.ie promoting dangerous driving

Seth Brundle

Hang on.
Can someone tell me how it it dangerous to tell someone to drive at 80km/h instead of 100km/h if they want to save on fuel?

L-M

Well if everyone is doing it, i can't see the problem.

I'm sure it won't be long for the "You can't drive slower than everyone else on the dual carrage way" brigade to come along and answer the question for you.

L-M

Here you go lol

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Just a thought. But if everyone else but the OP is speeding a dual carriageway, then surely she is the danger to everyone else due to her lower relative speed. (Not saying they are not breaking the law though).

If everyone drives fast on a motorway, then it is no more dangerous than driving a lower speed. On a motorway, everything depends on the relative speeds of cars around you. the only difference is that the consequence of having an accident at a higher speed would be worse.

Seth Brundle

Somebody driving at 80km/h does not make their driving dangerous unless that speed is inappropriate for the conditions (in which case 100km/h is quite likely to be also)!

As for AugustusMaximus' quote, if the others who arrive at 100km/h behind the driver at 80km/h cannot see the speed and change theirs accordingly and overtake when suitable then it is they who are dangerous!

AugustusMaximus

kbannon wrote: »

As for AugustusMaximus' quote, if the others who arrive at 100km/h behind the driver at 80km/h cannot see the speed and change theirs accordingly and overtake when suitable then it is they who are dangerous!

Doing 80kph on a motorway leads to a speed differential of 40kph to the majority of the other cars around you. This IS more dangerous than if all of the cars are doing around 120kph.

Having a 40kph differential between various cars on a motorway would also lead to increased congestion where there need be none. Slow drivers are one of the main reasons for phantom traffic jams on busy motorways.

Seth Brundle

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Doing 80kph on a motorway leads to a speed differential of 40kph to the majority of the other cars around you. This IS more dangerous than if all of the cars are doing around 120kph.

Having a 40kph differential between various cars on a motorway would also lead to increased congestion where there need be none. Slow drivers are one of the main reasons for phantom traffic jams on busy motorways.

How many motorways have you been on where all drivers did the same speed? How many motorways have you been on where all drivers did 120km/h?
Under your logic, are trucks (>3.5kT), towing vehicles, Busses, etc. meant to speed up and potentially become more dangerous?

Seth Brundle

Furthermore, if you cannot drive on a motorway taking a speed differential with other road users into account then you should not be using the motorway.
Also change.ie (who I'm not here defending) suggested dropping your speed from 100km/h to 80km/h - to me this is suggesting on non motorways!

AugustusMaximus

kbannon wrote: »

How many motorways have you been on where all drivers did the same speed? How many motorways have you been on where all drivers did 120km/h?
Under your logic, are trucks (>3.5kT), towing vehicles, Busses, etc. meant to speed up and potentially become more dangerous?

While these vehicles are not allowed go above 80kph, having other vehicles which are allowed to drive faster drive at a reduced speed is still not a good idea. My logic would be that an increasing amount of cars reducing their speeds (below the speed limit) would cause a gradual increase in both danger and congestion on our roads.

Sure, not every driver, drives at the same speeds on roads. Surely you must admit though that from a safety point of view, the roads would be safer if most drivers drove a similar, albeit safe speed.

Seth Brundle

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

While these vehicles are not allowed go above 80kph, having other vehicles which are allowed to drive faster drive at a reduced speed is still not a good idea. My logic would be that an increasing amount of cars reducing their speeds (below the speed limit) would cause a gradual increase in both danger and congestion on our roads.

I don't follow. Its acceptable for trucks, etc. to drive at 80km/h but to encourage others to do the same speed is not a good idea?
As for the increased number of cars on the roads, thats happening anyhow and they are all being forced to slow down when together (e.g. look at urban dual carriageway limits!).

Sure, not every driver, drives at the same speeds on roads. Surely you must admit though that from a safety point of view, the roads would be safer if most drivers drove a similar, albeit safe speed.[/quote]I'm not the one hypothesising! Its up to you to prove its dangerous!

AugustusMaximus

kbannon wrote: »

I don't follow. Its acceptable for trucks, etc. to drive at 80km/h but to encourage others to do the same speed is not a good idea?
As for the increased number of cars on the roads, thats happening anyhow and they are all being forced to slow down when together (e.g. look at urban dual carriageway limits!).

I'm not the one hypothesising! Its up to you to prove its dangerous!

My logic would state that the most non-optimal situation on a national route with a cars max speed being 100kph and lowest speed being 80kph would be for 50% of the cars to be doing 100kph and 50% to be doing 80%. This would give the largest standard deviation of speed between all of the cars using a particular road. Given that HGV's account for less than 20% of traffic, then any additional cars driving at 80kph is moving the amount of cars driving at 80kph from 20% towards the 50% figure.

Increases in speed differnetials makes roads more dangerous. Vehicles that drive at less than 50kph are banned from motorways for this reason. As the speed differential decreases so does danger.

Would you disagree with my hypothesis that danger increase with speed differential ?

Seth Brundle

No what I'm saying is that its a load of rubbish.
You are talking about forcing people to drive at 100km/h and having some drive at 80km/h is going to make the roads more dangerous despite the fact that the largest road users will be doing that speed. This idea will never ever happen so stop pushing it! People have their own safe limits and if thats 80km/h then so be it. You must take that into account when on the road.
What I am saying is that on our roads we have people driving at different speeds. This will always be the case - globally! What change.ie are suggesting is that people who want to save on fuel to reduce their speed by 20%. They are not telling them to drive dangerously!

AugustusMaximus

You didn't give me a straight answer.

Does danger increase with speed differential, because the thinking behind motor restrictions seems to think it does.

jhegarty

kbannon wrote: »

Hang on.
Can someone tell me how it it dangerous to tell someone to drive at 80km/h instead of 100km/h if they want to save on fuel?

Wouldn't you fail your driving test for doing it ?

cocoa

galwaytt wrote: »

IThe whole CO2 thing is a complete (green) Herring - total nonsense. Remember, in the early '80's how we were told the 'Ice Age Cometh' and that the world was fubar'd ? That theory blown out of the water in 15 years. I dare say the same about CO2 theory, too.

Worth a Read (but there's a lot of it......)

ermm, did you actually read anything that site says? They appear to think greenhouses don't have a greenhouse effect... Keep mentioning that reflecting heat inwards doesn't produce new energy, but no one said it does, just that it stops it escaping...

Seth Brundle

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

You didn't give me a straight answer.

Does danger increase with speed differential, because the thinking behind motor restrictions seems to think it does.

I did answer it. I said that it was irrelevant because pushing everyone into one speed bracket (80-100km/h) is not going to happen.
If you want a yes/no answer then of course yes is the answer. However, you could then apply the same argument to other road users. You have tractors, pedestrians and many other things on the roads. These all have to be taken into account. Should we remove all pedestrians and cyclists because the speed differential is much greater than that of a car doing 80 in a 100 zone?

jhegarty wrote: »

Wouldn't you fail your driving test for doing it ?

How many driving tests would manage to reach those speeds? Anyhow, since when was the driving test reflecting upon reality?

ninty9er

In an ideal world I have no issue with people doing whatever speed they want, BUT, and it's a BIG but, this isn't an ideal world and these slow coaches clog up national primary routes oblivious to the 2km tailbak behind them. If Change.ie said, slow to 80 and pull in to allow other traffic to pass I would have no problem with the ad.

L1011

jor el wrote: »

You should send the same complaint to the RSA, Gay Byrne, and the Minister for Transport.

Anyway, that Change.ie website is a pile of poo. It told me I was 30% below the average CO2 emissions, but that I should do more. Drop my speeds to 80kmph, cut out the one and only flight I was taking, and swap my PC for a laptop. No, no and eh, no, to that then.

Everyone should visit the site, get their carbon number, and promptly ignore it.

Which requires buying something unlikely to be built here containing lots of precious metals mined thousands of miles away and which the production of used lots of plastics and chemicals. Great suggestion from them there then!

About as bad a suggestion as replacing an old but perfectly working car with one with slightly lower CO2...

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

In an ideal world I have no issue with people doing whatever speed they want, BUT, and it's a BIG but, this isn't an ideal world and these slow coaches clog up national primary routes oblivious to the 2km tailbak behind them. If Change.ie said, slow to 80 and pull in to allow other traffic to pass I would have no problem with the ad.

Somebody driving oblivious to others is not their concern but in terms of safety, they are probably safer driving more slowly.
My point still stands. Suggesting to people to drive 20% slower to save on fuel does not make the roads more dangerous. If the driver (at whatever speed) turns out to be a danger then thats an entirely different matter and the responsibility for blame would lie at the driver themselves!