Irish Squad/Ireland XV for Six Nations?

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:07pm

premierstone wrote: »

Everyone here is having a go at Dowling I must say im suprised all iv read over the past few weeks is ''picking form players'' and put it this way if theres one spot to be picked between Dowling and Horgan I know who id pick and it certainly wouldnt be fcukin Horgan, anyone that has been watching munster this year and doent appreciate what Dowling brings to a team we'll quite frankly hasnt a clue :mad:

I like Dowling as a player hes a hardworker and never shys away from a challenge but international standard winger he simply is not. Horgan I'm not complaing with being in the squad because he has earned the right on past appearances to at least be considered however if he was to continue playing as he has been and makes the 22 I will be furious but the fact is we know is international standard and know he can be lethal its the same way I am not pissed at D'arcy, DOC and Dempsey being picked despite all 3 not being at their best because they deserve the chance to prove themselves.

What I suppose is most annoying about the whole situation is that he brings in a new winger but its not Murphy. How anyone can overlook Murphy for Dowling I will never know.

premierstone · 21-01-2009 4:08pm

Goose81 wrote: »

In his defence he usually plays very well for ireland and is one of a handfull of out and out wingers.

Jaysus ur the one spoutin on every where on the forum about ''now'' and players ''in form'' why not bring back Simon Geoghan altogether he usually plays well for Ireland :rolleyes:

sock puppet · 21-01-2009 4:08pm

thehighground wrote: »

No, but I think we can continue to hope for one more game that ROG doesn't get injured, while Ian Humphreys actually gets to play a game.

The following week, he could be in the main squad - which is what happened to Tommy Bowe last year.

But what if ROG does get injured? It would mean playing Wallace or Sexton neither of which are up to it. And last year Tommy Bowe should have been in the team for the first game over Trimble but instead he got the "experience" of being thrashed by the Saxons.

premierstone · 21-01-2009 4:09pm

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I like Dowling as a player hes a hardworker and never shys away from a challenge but international standard winger he simply is not. Horgan I'm not complaing with being in the squad because he has earned the right on past appearances to at least be considered however if he was to continue playing as he has been and makes the 22 I will be furious but the fact is we know is international standard and know he can be lethal its the same way I am not pissed at D'arcy, DOC and Dempsey being picked despite all 3 not being at their best because they deserve the chance to prove themselves.

What I suppose is most annoying about the whole situation is that he brings in a new winger but its not Murphy. How anyone can overlook Murphy for Dowling I will never know.

How do you know this mystic meg??

outwest · 21-01-2009 4:11pm

Goose81 wrote: »

I agree that Horgan has been exceptionally poor.

In his defence he usually plays very well for ireland and is one of a handfull of out and out wingers.

He is also very physical,so there are merits to picking him.

Horgan was always gona get picked whether anyone likes it or not.

But if you were gona introduce a new wing into the main squad then johne Murphy should be the man as he is better than Downling.

i disagree, dowling is also very physical and is palyin well, just because he used to play well doesnt meen he should be in the squad form players should be picked regardless of who the are

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:11pm

Twin-go wrote: »

Dowling Deserves his chance. Always consistant and scores and creates his far share of trys.

What I don't understand is the Irish Coach picking SO many players from the European Champions. Why would he do that!?! :-)

Why indeed?

Champions with their midfield partnership made up of non-Irish, have essentially an international pack playing together at club level, have one of the best outhalves in the world at club level but we all know that changes at international level.

Our HC winning pack is average when it plays against another full international pack, ROG can't bring his form to international level and essentially we look average despite having an abundance of Munster men.

The fact that a Munster player were part of a team that won the HC means absolutely zero when it comes to international level. Its a different ball game.

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:12pm

premierstone wrote: »

How do you know this mystic meg??

From watching him play premier, doesn't have the pace, his positioning is off a lot, doesn't have a lethal finish, hands aren't what they should be.

He is a hardworker, great tackler and other than positioning a smart player but the above cons are too big to ignore when it comes to international level.

premierstone · 21-01-2009 4:12pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think Dowling's shít. He always seems to have a dodgy game when I see Munster play. (No idea about the Sale game, I was in London and missed it). As for Horgan, you're right, he's not been much cop this season either. He's been magnificent in the green jersey in previous years, one can only hope for a repeat of such form to come.

How amazingly convenient :rolleyes: I wonder is the fact that he's a leinster man playing for Munster anything to do with the apathy being shown here towards him

RuggieBear · 21-01-2009 4:14pm

back on topic people.

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:15pm

premierstone wrote: »

How amazingly convenient :rolleyes: I wonder is the fact that he's a leinster man playing for Munster anything to do with the apathy being shown here towards him

I don't think so probably more to do with Horgan being one of our best international wingers in the last few years other than Hickie. He actually stated that as well so I don't know why you levelled a bias claim at him

Goose81 · 21-01-2009 4:16pm

premierstone wrote: »

Jaysus ur the one spoutin on every where on the forum about ''now'' and players ''in form'' why not bring back Simon Geoghan altogether he usually plays well for Ireland :rolleyes:

Magners league

2008-2009

Dowling played 8 scored 1 try

Whatever about Horgan,Johne Murphy has scored 8 tries or something.

anonymous_joe · 21-01-2009 4:17pm

premierstone wrote: »

How amazingly convenient :rolleyes: I wonder is the fact that he's a leinster man playing for Munster anything to do with the apathy being shown here towards him

Well it wasn't convenient per sé, as we'd be planning to find a pub to watch the game.

Anyway, I had no idea Dowling was from Leinster, nor could I give a flying fúck. He's slow.

Brewster · 21-01-2009 4:18pm

sock puppet wrote: »

So would you prefer Paddy Wallace at 10?

Exactly. Its unfair at this stage to ask Wallace to be doing a job at 10. If I had my way Wallace would start the game at 12. I have posted on this board before that he is good enough.

I suspect the problem lies in the fact the Kidney will not select both Wallace and Humphreys on the same bench. Therefore because Wallace is more versatile he gets nod over Humpheys.

Brewster · 21-01-2009 4:21pm

Lads, relax. Dowling wont be near the 22 nor should he best. Trimble, Cave, Earls, Fitz to name a few are better options....

Goose81 · 21-01-2009 4:21pm

Brewster wrote: »

Exactly. Its unfair at this stage to ask Wallace to be doing a job at 10. If I had my way Wallace would start the game at 12. I have posted on this board before that he is good enough.

I suspect the problem lies in the fact the Kidney will not select both Wallace and Humphreys on the same bench. Therefore because Wallace is more versatile he gets nod over Humpheys.

So why name Sexton in the main squad and Humphries in the A squad?

puntosporting · 21-01-2009 4:22pm

Surprised no one is mentioning darcy ?
Should he be in the sqaud at this stage?
On the dowling point on his recent performances i think he has earned a chance in the full sqaud let him be judged after a game or two in the side!

old boy · 21-01-2009 4:22pm

sock puppet wrote: »

But what if ROG does get injured? It would mean playing Wallace or Sexton neither of which are up to it. And last year Tommy Bowe should have been in the team for the first game over Trimble but instead he got the "experience" of being thrashed by the Saxons.

t o leary, did ok recently in the magners league, kicked a penalty,

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:23pm

Goose81 wrote: »

So why name Sexton in the main squad and Humphries in the A squad?

I reckon Kidney believes he can get Sexton back to his old form. Which smacks once again of EOS notion of form is temporary

premierstone · 21-01-2009 4:24pm

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

From watching him play premier, doesn't have the pace, his positioning is off a lot, doesn't have a lethal finish, hands aren't what they should be.

He is a hardworker, great tackler and other than positioning a smart player but the above cons are too big to ignore when it comes to international level.

He's positioning is fine IMO its just that playing with Munster the wingers dont play as conventional wingers they are encouraged to drift infield and mix it up so to speak, anyway Horan usually covers

Iv heard the arguement before in relation to him not having great hands and tbh I think its a bit of a missconception I think the reality is he is more comfortable and inclined to take the ball into contact and while you wouldnt normally advocate this for a winger he is so strong in the tackle and seems to even be able to generate forward momentum that its not a problem imo.

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I don't think so probably more to do with Horgan being one of our best international wingers in the last few years other than Horgan. He actually stated that as well so I don't know why you levelled a bias claim at him

Im sorry im not been smart here but ive read this 5 or 6 times now and i havent a clue what your trying to say - horgan is our best winger apart from horgan ??

Chucky the tree · 21-01-2009 4:24pm

Twin-go wrote: »

Dowling Deserves his chance. Always consistant and scores and creates his far share of trys.

What I don't understand is the Irish Coach picking SO many players from the European Champions. Why would he do that!?! :-)

Your idea of fair share is definitly completely different to mine. Magners league stats and GPL for murphy.

Ian dowling - Apps: 46 Tries 6
Luke fitzgerald - Apps: 31 Tries 11
Rob Kearney - Apps: 45 Tries 10
Shane horgan - Apps 59 Tries 25
Tommy Bowe - Apps: 72 Tries 30
Johne Murphy - Apps 38: Tires 12

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:24pm

puntosporting wrote: »

Surprised no one is mentioning darcy ?
Should he be in the sqaud at this stage?
On the dowling point on his recent performances i think he has earned a chance in the full sqaud let him be judged after a game or two in the side!

I mentioned D'arcy along with Horgan and DOC being in the squad but in my opinion they have earned the right to be up for consideration and given the chance to prove themselves on what they have brought to the Irish set up in the recent years

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:25pm

premierstone wrote: »

Im sorry im not been smart here but ive read this 5 or 6 times now and i havent a clue what your trying to say - horgan is our best winger apart from horgan ??

sorry I meant to say Hickie, post edited.

Goose81 · 21-01-2009 4:26pm

premierstone wrote: »

Im sorry im not been smart here but ive read this 5 or 6 times now and i havent a clue what your trying to say - horgan is our best winger apart from horgan ??

Well if I was playing Wales I would prefer Horgan marking Williams than Dowling.

So I can see why he is included.
I cant see him making the 22 for most matches but I can see him starting in certain ones,depending on opposite number.

thehighground · 21-01-2009 4:28pm

premierstone wrote: »

Im sorry im not been smart here but ive read this 5 or 6 times now and i havent a clue what your trying to say - horgan is our best winger apart from horgan ??

typo - he meant to say he is our best international winger apart from Horan

RuggieBear · 21-01-2009 4:32pm

thehighground wrote: »

typo - he meant to say he is our best international winger apart from Horan

lol

tbh if we are going to use try/games played ratios i reckon Horan's wouldn't be half bad.

premierstone · 21-01-2009 4:33pm

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I reckon Kidney believes he can get Sexton back to his old form. Which smacks once again of EOS notion of form is temporary

But isnt that the same argument you've been putting forward for Horgan because tbh he's form has been nothing short of abysmal

Chucky the tree · 21-01-2009 4:34pm

RuggieBear wrote: »

lol

tbh if we are going to use try/games played ratios i reckon Horan's wouldn't be half bad.

:pac: Better then Ian dowlings

50 Apps and 10 tries.

bamboozle · 21-01-2009 4:35pm

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

What upsets me is just how safe Kidney has played it by putting Munster players such as Dowling and MOD ahead of better players such as J.Murphy and Toner on the basis that Kidney is familiar with them. It completely smacks of EOS. No one here can make an argument for Dowling and MOD ahead of Murphy and Toner because there isn't one other than Kidney playing it cautious, playing it safe, playing it EOS.

i think its quite simple,
right wingers- tommy bowe and shane Horgan
Left winger - Ian Dowling & Fitz

as far as i know Murphy is a right winger he wont get a look in ahead of bowe and Horgan,
for his own sake he needs to get back playing in Ireland to be recognised, how Mal and MOD are still there is crazy

RugbyFanatic · 21-01-2009 4:36pm

premierstone wrote: »

But isnt that the same argument you've been putting forward for Horgan because tbh he's form has been nothing short of abysmal

the difference being when has Sexton proven himself internationally? If Sexton churned out top class performances for Ireland like Horgan has done then yes he should be at least up for consideration for the international squad but the fact has he hasn't.

If Horgan plays as poor as he has been and still makes the 22 believe me I will be the first to be complaining.

Goose81 · 21-01-2009 4:37pm

The Sexton decision is so puzzling theres definitely more to it.

Maybe Kidney just wants to talk to the lad,obviously his contract is up at the end of the season and maybe Kidney is desperate for him to stay in ireland and to try to find out what has gone wrong.

I mean if you were looking for a player in the mould of ROG,then Sexton would be the closest in the type of game he plays.

He has obviously seen something in the lad he likes.

Irish Squad/Ireland XV for Six Nations?

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