Irish Squad/Ireland XV for Six Nations?

outwest

wallace is one of the best backrows in europe and but best 8 he is not pairrse he hand down best 8 in world

Hugh_C

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'd have Cullen at least on the bench, he is easily the third best second row available to Ireland.

Maybe so but isn't his shoulder a bit dodgy at the moment? Would he be OK for 6N?

Oh yeah, and at the top of this page somebody was reckoning that 4 and 5 are interchangeable, I wouldn't necessarily agree.

H

bleg

definitely the best backrower in europe at the moment

Podge_irl

Jam-Fly wrote: »

56 caps versus 8

30 vs. 22.
Of course Kearney has fewer caps. "Experience" is not all that great a qualification, especially when much of that experience is of being quite poor. Kearney is currently the better player and there is nothing to suggest he is going to be phased by playing in the 6 Nations. Exactly what do you think Murphy knows that Kearney doesn't that will impact upon their play?

These decisions were interlinked. Obviously O'Leary would be most be people's first choice, but I do like the speed of Stringer's pass - it gives O'Gara, Fitz and BOD more options. If I chose Stringer, I felt I had to make up for the lack of strength, hence picking Horgan. It's by no means a standard selection, but this is the point of view I was looking at it from.

Stringer's pass was the best. It remains fast but it is nowhere near as accurate as it once was, negating his main selling point. Again, he is behind TOL at Munster for a reason, I don't see why he should be starting for Ireland. Horgan is not someone I would bemoan starting as he normally plays well for Ireland and certainly does give a physical presence, but a physical wing will never make up for a non-physical scrum-half. Stringer was worth it when his pass was top notch, but it no longer is. Its possibly still the best of the available options, but not enough better to outweigh their other strengths.

A) Wallace is the prob the best 8 in europe no one does it better than him.

As mentioned, Parisse is the best 8 in Europe (and indeed the world imo). A run of a couple of good games does not the best 8 make. Wallace is an outstanding player, but perhaps tone down the hyperbole.

Maybe so but isn't his shoulder a bit dodgy at the moment? Would he be OK for 6N?

Seems not, which is a shame. I think he is a very under-rated second row and brings a lot to the table. He is one of the smartest rugby players in Ireland imo.

toomevara

Podge_irl wrote: »

As mentioned, Parisse is the best 8 in Europe (and indeed the world imo).

Agree Podge, and as you well know, I'm a massive fan of Old Sergio, but he's definitely suffering something of a slump of form in the HC of late. Was anonymous last weekend against The Scarlets (When's the last time you could day that about any game in which Parisse is involved). No doubt he'll be back on form for the 6N. Christ knows the Italians are going to need it.

Podge_irl

toomevara wrote: »

Agree Podge, and as you well know, I'm a massive fan of Old Sergio, but he's definitely suffering something of a slump of form in the HC of late. Was anonymous last weekend against The Scarlets (When's the last time you could day that about any game in which Parisse is involved). No doubt he'll be back on form for the 6N. Christ knows the Italians are going to need it.

I'm afraid I don't see as much HEC action as I used since moving to these shores, but I'll take your word for it. Hopefully he'll be back to his best for the 6 Nations, cause he's Italy's best fly-half, scrum-half, number 8 and flanker!

Moncti48

Jam-Fly wrote: »

1 Horan...Simply, best in his position imo Best winger we have!!!!!! only place you see him these days
2 Flannery...Slightly better than Best I think (no pun intended). Also, since it's a 7 man Munster pack, having a hooker with playing expereince with the rest of the pack is important Flannery will start however best will be in and out of the team
3 Hayes...Still slugging away, still the best No. 3 in the world (well, maybe...:D) We need a second choice in this position to start challenging Hayes for the 3 jersey. However Hayes to play full tournament, provided no injury

4 O'Callaghan...Yup, no real doubt here Would like to see him challenged for his position, hes getting comfortable and hasnt been high qauilty
5 O'Connell...Ditto Agreed

6 Quinlan...Great flanker, adds experience Wont play, Ferris willl start at 6
7 Wallace...Plays best at No. 7 imo, the only back-row who is guarenteed a place in the team. agreed
8 Ferris...This was a tough enough decision. I think his power and size just seperate him from Leamy or Jennings, but only just. Could easily have picked Heaslip Firstly Cant understand why you pick the best 6 we have at the minute at 8. Heaslip to start Leamy to Finish 6n

9 Stringer...Most would pick Reddan or O'Leary, but I think we can sacrifice a little in defensive physicality in order to get quicker passes for ROG I understand your point, but i would expect to see TOL start with reddan on the bench
10 O'Gara...Obviously Agreed

11 Horgan...Adds physicality to the midfield I hope he doesnt start, but can see DK use him against France for the experience, Would prefer Earls or Fitzgearld
12 Fitzgerald...Works better with BOD than other centres No they dont work well at al. BOD is constanly having to change with Fitzgearld when they play in order to get the back line going. Hense Contepomi at 12 for Lenister. However I would expect to see Fitzgearld start at 12, with Darcy end the Tournament at 12( OR maybe we can dream of Wallace)
13 BOD...I (Munster fan) honestly think he adds the spark to the Irish side. Not as good as he once was, but still one of the best centers in Europe. Past his best but still can do a great job for us
14 Bowe...Deserves a chance at a consistent run in the team. Best Irish winger this season. Deserves his chance, but might see trimble come in, However, if you go with murphy or demspey at 15 because you want experience, then Kearney will play on the wing

15 Murphy...Going with experience here I hope not. Kearney to Start

Maybe!!:D

Diom

thehighground wrote: »

Is Keatly not away to participate in the 7s World Cup in Dubai in which he helped Ireland to qualify for?

As for Muldoon - why does he deserve his place ahead of Ronan & O'Driscoll (both put in magnificent displays against the ABs)? None of the three are going to make the backrow anyway because of who is ahead of them.

Muldoon has consistently performed week in and week out for a team that he captains. Every week he delivers. A clean, powerful, passionate player, who really does know how to lead.
Ronan has done absolutely nothing to justify a selection. One decent show-game does not an international make.
MOD is an uninspiring player usually. I don't really rate him, too many mistakes and too many penalties. He doesn't have enough of the good stuff to make up for those flaws.

Muldoon would out-play either and both of those players any day of the week. He is definitely more consistent and less prone to giving away penalties than either of them. The reason he's not in the squad is because Kidney has a Munster bias. Whether or not Mull would have made the team is irrelevant.
Watch the A games and you'll see the quality. Or keep an eye on him in any of the Connacht games.

Anyways this is just my opinion and I'm not the Irish coach (unfortunately for Ireland ).

Diom

1 Horan Unfortunately
2 Flannery
3 Hayes

4 O'Callaghan Ryan needs real time here in Munster
5 O'Connell

6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip

9 O'Leary
10 O'Gara

11 Fitzgerald No point in having him in a position where he might have to pass
12 Wallace Best inside center in the country right now, only other real option being Cave (more of a 13)
13 BOD
14 Bowe Best Irish winger
15 Kearney Murphy is only other option

Noopti

Diom wrote: »

1 Horan Unfortunately
2 Flannery
3 Hayes

4 O'Callaghan Ryan needs real time here in Munster
5 O'Connell

6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip

9 O'Leary
10 O'Gara

11 Fitzgerald No point in having him in a position where he might have to pass
12 Wallace Best inside center in the country right now, only other real option being Cave (more of a 13)
13 BOD
14 Bowe Best Irish winger
15 Kearney Murphy is only other option

Yep, that will more or less be the team Kidney picks with the exception of Wallace probably. Also your comment on Fitz is a bit mis-judged in my opinion. Some of his handling and passing was great on Sunday.

bleg

Diom wrote: »

Muldoon has consistently performed week in and week out for a team that he captains. Every week he delivers. A clean, powerful, passionate player, who really does know how to lead.
Ronan has done absolutely nothing to justify a selection. One decent show-game does not an international make.
MOD is an uninspiring player usually. I don't really rate him, too many mistakes and too many penalties. He doesn't have enough of the good stuff to make up for those flaws.

Muldoon would out-play either and both of those players any day of the week. He is definitely more consistent and less prone to giving away penalties than either of them. The reason he's not in the squad is because Kidney has a Munster bias. Whether or not Mull would have made the team is irrelevant.
Watch the A games and you'll see the quality. Or keep an eye on him in any of the Connacht games.

Anyways this is just my opinion and I'm not the Irish coach (unfortunately for Ireland ).

here we go:rolleyes:

RugbyFanatic

Noopti wrote: »

Yep, that will more or less be the team Kidney picks with the exception of Wallace probably. Also your comment on Fitz is a bit mis-judged in my opinion. Some of his handling and passing was great on Sunday.

Going to have to agree I could not believe how he caught that pass from Kearney with one hand and before you knew it offloaded it was pure class.

He needs to stay on the wing though. After this weeks games I would go something along the lines of

1.Healy (I think hes ready, hes been excellent, scrummaging has come on leaps and bounds)
2.Best
3.Hayes
4.DOC
5.POC
6.Ferris
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip (Right back in contention after a performance like that)
9.Stringer (I know but I really think we need his fast pass, dont kill me)
10.O'Gara
11.Fitzgerald
12.BOD
13.Cave
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

anonymous_joe

bleg wrote: »

here we go:rolleyes:

In all honesty, I'd be seriously worried if Kidney didn't have a Munster bias. I don't like the idea, but I expect it.

Kidney coached Munster for how long? And to what degree of success?

He knows the Munster players better than those of the other teams. I would hazard a guess and say that in any 50-50 call between players, he's more likely to go with the lads he knows better, and whom he knows have won things.

Human nature after all.

DonkeyPokerTour

Here's my thoughts on who is definitely going to play, i.e. their name is already on the team sheet:

1. Horan (I like Healy but I dont think he'll start)
2.
3. Hayes (Enough Said)
4. O'Callaghan (Not necessaraly the best choice but it is the choice kidney will make)
5. O'Connell
6.
7.
8.

(Hooker, I think Flannery will probably start, but from watching Best this year I dont mind Best playing either. Both are pritty equal in the Line out, Best is better in the scrum and Flannery is better in the loose. 6 of 1 half dozen of the other. Back Row: Wallace is a shoe in for one of those places, probably 7 but possibly 8. Ferris should be a shoe in for 6 but maybe kidney will go with Quinlan again, I hope not but maybe. My choice here would be Ferris, Jennings, Wallace, Gives us an actual number 7 and 1/2 a 7 (Wallace), but my head says it will be Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip)

9.
10. O'Gara
11.
12.
13. O'Driscoll
14.
15.

(Backs are not as clear cut, We have options at every position I've left open. O'Leary will probably edge out Reddan, If Kearney plays at Full back then its Fitz & Bowe on the wings, However if Murphy plays then its Kearney and Bowe on the Wings. Then there's the matter of 12! Form says P Wallace, My heart wants Darcy from his peak, My head tells me kidney will probably play Fitz there with Kearney and bowe on the wings, Murphy at FB)

Noopti

Munster bias!? lol

Seriously, of course he will have Munster bias. They are the best side in the country by a long shot. I would be far far more worried if he didn't pick Munster players for fear of being accused of Munster bias. Then we would be in trouble.

RugbyFanatic, I agree with your sentiments on Healy. Hopefully he gets some decent game time.

However I don't agree with your sentiments on TOL.
He had another fantastic game (while he lasted) against Montauban. He is such a fierce competitor and while he doesn't offer the fast pass of Stringer, he offers much more than him in other areas.

Diom

Noopti wrote: »

Yep, that will more or less be the team Kidney picks with the exception of Wallace probably. Also your comment on Fitz is a bit mis-judged in my opinion. Some of his handling and passing was great on Sunday.

No, his handling is good, it's his passing that worries me. Pop passes, awareness are very good. Right up there with the best of the Irish players. His problem is judging his outward passes.

Noopti

Diom wrote: »

No, his handling is good, it's his passing that worries me. Pop passes, awareness are very good. Right up there with the best of the Irish players. His problem is judging his outward passes.

Sure, he has thrown a few dodgy passes in his time. You are right he looks more like a wing option anyway. A back 3 of Bowe - Kearney - Fitzgerald would be pretty potent I think.

RugbyFanatic

Noopti wrote: »

Sure, he has thrown a few dodgy passes in his time. You are right he looks more like a wing option anyway. A back 3 of Bowe - Kearney - Fitzgerald would be pretty potent I think.

It would be excellent.

in the future I simply cannot wait to see a back 3 of Earls - Kearney - Fitzgerald absolutely mouthwatering.

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

Munster bias!? lol

Seriously, of course he will have Munster bias. They are the best side in the country by a long shot. I would be far far more worried if he didn't pick Munster players for fear of being accused of Munster bias. Then we would be in trouble.

RugbyFanatic, I agree with your sentiments on Healy. Hopefully he gets some decent game time.

However I don't agree with your sentiments on TOL.
He had another fantastic game (while he lasted) against Montauban. He is such a fierce competitor and while he doesn't offer the fast pass of Stringer, he offers much more than him in other areas.

Best team? Absolutely.

Best players - meh. Not much different to the others in reality. Munster have the best props, but Best's as good as Flannery easily, O'Connell and O'Callaghan are probably our best locks, but not much better than guys like Cullen or Casey.

Back row, all four provinces have very good backrows. We've got an embarrassment of riches in these positions, except for the 7 jersey, however we willfully avoid using players. One area of the team that is far far far too predictable.

Munster have the best half backs in Ireland, although Reddan's equal to O'Leary. In terms of the extended backline, Munster's is not the most talented but is certainly the most effective at the moment. (I'm not willing to back down on this point. The fact that Munster's worse backs do better than Leinster's is a serious písser for a Leinster fan. And I'm not denying that their less talented players are playing better than Leinster's. Either way, it doesn't matter, as Gaffney'll get to destroy Ireland's back row too.)

One of the big problems I find is that Munster's synergy (isn't it depressing that that word's the right one?) is what gives them their edge. The sum of the parts is less than the whole. Thus when they play for Ireland in a different team, even though there's probably a better team, the sum of the parts ends up being less exaggerated. It helps that most clubs if not all are worse than international sides.

monaghanbiffo

1. Healy
2. Jackman
3. Hayes
4. Cullen
5. O'Connell
6. Leamy
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Dempsey
12. Fitzgerald
13. BOD
14. Horgan
15. Kearney


I Jest.....

I reckon this is the team that will start against France

1. Horan
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Earls/Horgan
12. O' Driscoll (he'll wear 13)
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

outwest

monaghanbiffo wrote: »

1. Healy , i hope he gets picked
2. Jackman , never shud be considered connacht were delighted to see the back of him
3. Hayes, will start but replacement needs to found
4. Cullen, yes
5. O'Connell, captain
6. Leamy, ferris
7. Jennings, its worst he is getting, id go for wallace
8. Heaslip, ya played well yesterday,
9. Reddan, tol is playing better then him,
10. O'Gara, yup
11. Dempsey, ur joking, bowe and luke wings,
12. Fitzgerald, not a 12, put earls there
13. BOD,
14. Horgan, i never want tosee him were green again,g murphy
15. Kearney, he has to start at fullback, a good six nations and he will be loins 15

ur team would get bet my italy

I Jest.....

I reckon this is the team that will start against France

1. Horan,
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Earls/Horgan
12. O' Driscoll (he'll wear 13)
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

the prob with the team he will pick by the next world cup they will be old,and after this six nation there only two years to develop the young players into multi cap palyers

DBraithwaite

thomond2006 wrote: »

What should be the ireland team for 6N 2009? Do you agree/disagree with my team selection?

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe ...been fantastic for Ospreys
13 Keith Earls .... plays best at OC
12 BOD
11 Ian Dowling ......deserves a chance at highest level
10 ROG
9 Tomas O' Leary

1 Horan
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O' Callaghan
5 POC - Captain
6 Denis Leamy ......hopefully will be fit
7 Niall Ronan
8 David Wallace ........Number 8 is his best position

Bench
16 Tony Buckley ....no other prop getting meaningful game time
17 Rory Best
18 Donnacha Ryan / Bob Casey
19 Stephen Ferris
20 Peter Stringer
21 Ian Humphreys .....very good for Ulster
22 Geordan Murphy

Ian Humphreys is not even on the panel so how could he be on the team.
its a disgrace that he is not though.
I think its a little bit of bias from kidney.

corny

I don't know about anyone else but i'd be quite willing to write this 6N off if Kidney experiments a little. I mean everyone gives their opinion of whats best and most have merit but i think we can all say to a high degree of accuracy who's most likely to start in each position. The thing is we have viable options in most positions the only thing these players need is a chance. If i see Quinlan, Wallace and Leamy (as someone suggested) as a back row i think i'll weep. Giving Paddy Wallace time at 12, giving Cian Healy a chance, trying out the multitude of options we have in the back row, resting ROG for at least one game, etc..... these should be priorities. We'll pay in the future if we continue to pick the tried and trusted ALL of the time. England are still recovering from the retirement of Dad's Army post 2003 IMO. We're in for the same with our 'Golden Generation' the way things are going.

RuggieBear

I don't think kidney can afford to experiment.He won't get any leeway imo.

he has to win.

corny

RuggieBear wrote: »

I don't think kidney can afford to experiment.He won't get any leeway imo.

he has to win.

I don't think thats correct. Putting Horan on the bench and starting Paddy Wallace at 12 wouldn't weaken the side at all IMO never mind enough to lose to the Italians, but even so, the entire 6N campaign gives ample opportunity for limited (not wholesale) experimentation.

anonymous_joe

RuggieBear wrote: »

I don't think kidney can afford to experiment.He won't get any leeway imo.

he has to win.

Hmmm. You mean the IRFU won't let them experiment?

padser

corny wrote: »

I don't think thats correct. Putting Horan on the bench and starting Paddy Wallace at 12 wouldn't weaken the side at all IMO never mind enough to lose to the Italians, but even so, the entire 6N campaign gives ample opportunity for limited (not wholesale) experimentation.

Our first match out is against France -

Surely it makes sense to play our strongest side (which I think might include Wallace at 12). If we win - then realistically we need to go all out to try win the 6N (unlikely to happen - but too big a prize for IReland to just ignore).

If we lose (which is most likely) we have 4 games with which to blood new players.

corny

padser wrote: »

Our first match out is against France -

Surely it makes sense to play our strongest side (which I think might include Wallace at 12). If we win - then realistically we need to go all out to try win the 6N (unlikely to happen - but too big a prize for IReland to just ignore).

If we lose (which is most likely) we have 4 games with which to blood new players.

I see your point alright. However, how do you determine your best side if the same 15 play every game? I'm not advocating handing out new caps to all and sundry just letting certain players know there is actually competition for places(even in the important games) which some of them seem to have forgotten because they play whether in form or out of form. IMO this will most definitely strenghten our team not weaken it.

RuggieBear

sorry I'm not really explaining properly...imo there was enough dissent against appointing Kidney in the first place that if he loses a couple of games there will be real pressure oh him and might be an attempt to sack him.

He will pick the best players for each position in his opnion even if there is a promising youngster coming thru...he needs to win.

anonymous_joe

RuggieBear wrote: »

sorry I'm not really explaining properly...imo there was enough dissent against appointing Kidney in the first place that if he loses a couple of games there will be real pressure oh him and might be an attempt to sack him.

He will pick the best players for each position in his opnion even if there is a promising youngster coming thru...he needs to win.

That's why I think someone should come out and state what Ireland are going to try and do in this tournament.