Irish Squad/Ireland XV for Six Nations?

Sangre

liam12989 wrote: »

1)Healy
2)Cornin
3)ROSS
4)Ryan
5)Caldwell
6)Ferris
7)O Brien
8)Muldoon
9)Reddan
10)Humpreys
11)J Murphy
12)Cave
13)Fitz
14)Dowling
15)Kearney


For Italy Scot games.These guys need game time!Think its time Mike Ross was used for hayes

The Italy/Scot games are absolutely the worst times to try a pack of young, semi-unblooded players. That pack would get annihilated against the quality and experience Scotland and especially Italy have up front.

liam12989

Then go a mixture of youth and expierience in pack these guys need to be team if we are to stand any chance in RWC... People in Ireland really need to start looking at the bigger picture for god sake!

Chucky the tree

jam_on_toast wrote: »

He is ready, its not that big a deal to play international rugby.

Of course it is. God knows how many young, up and coming English players got thrown in a the deep end and drowned. Even Cipriani is struggling with the step up and he is light years ahead of anything we have in reserve. Keatley hasnt even played HEC. Humphreys should be given a go ahead of Keatley.

Serenity Now!

jam_on_toast wrote: »

its not that big a deal to play international rugby

Even with pivots in mind, Donald (NZ), Cipriani (Eng), Lamb (Eng), Du Plessis (SA) and Hook (Wal) might disagree with you there.
Even the mighty Tim Horan when required to play at 10 for the Wallabies struggled.

Silly thing to say. International is a hefty step up from ERC which Keatley hasn't even played.

anonymous_joe

Further claims made by half that Ulster team that they deserve consideration.

RugbyFanatic

We truly are in the Ulster Golden Era.

I would add Humphries to my selection now as well.

Pollock
Caldwell
Humphries
Cave

All look like they are going to be top players.

I reckon 6nations should be a time for experimentation I can't see our current team winning it anyway so why not give some younger players a go, let them get comfortable playing in the shirt and then next year we will bring a young, fresh, enthuastic team to the 6nations and give it a real crack. Lets not forget the world cup is only 2 years away why not experiment now? We have all these great prospects some of whom could be far better than our current players but they might not be able to perform to their highest ability in the world cup without a solid 2 years of international rugby behind them so play them now.

jam_on_toast

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Even with pivots in mind, Donald (NZ), Cipriani (Eng), Lamb (Eng), Du Plessis (SA) and Hook (Wal) might disagree with you there.
Even the mighty Tim Horan when required to play at 10 for the Wallabies struggled.

Silly thing to say. International is a hefty step up from ERC which Keatley hasn't even played.

Your basing your claim on donald on the munster match i assume? if so, fair enough he was rattled, but not many 10's in the world would have survived in that atmosphere. That was a freak one off match, croke park does not generate that sort of intimidating atmosphere.

What is wrong with Hook??? He is better than any option we've got at the moment on international form. Wales having two 10's to rotate is what won them the 6N last year among other reasons.

I still feel there is no reason why someone like keatley could not be called up to the squad and get some game time off the bench.

As for the ERC, Wilkinson has never played in it (i think) and he turned out all right, not counting injuries.

barnesd

The game last night showed how nuts anyone who'd leave out Ferris is. He's easily as good as Leamy, and he's improving. Niall Ronan was completely marked absent. We might as well field 14 men as play Ronan in an international.

Moncti48

15. Kearney - Best in this position
14. Fitzgearld - Partnership with BOD didnt work so can be used better on the wing
13. BOD - simply because he wont be dropped no matter what people say
12. Earls - has done enough this season to merit a start
11. Trimble/Bowe - both playing well

10. Humphreys/keatly - Both made fools of ROG. time for o gara to go, just like he disloged David humphreys
9. TOL - better for the team than reddan

1. Horan - who else
2. Dont Care either or
3. Hayes - any man who can lift POC on his own deserves to start

4. POC - simple
5. DOC - playing ****, if he ****s up in 1st game change to Cullen/ryan

6. Ferris - best 6 Ireland has right now
7. Wallace - Jennings hasnt played well this season, and Wallace is Ireland best carrier
8. Leamy - still 26 and has more to offer than heaslip. strenght and dynamism that heaslip doesnt have. heaslip hasnt played well for Ireland at 8


16. Flannery/Best whichever
17. Buckley
18. Heaslip
19. P. Wallace/Darcy
20. Reddan
21. ROG
22. Trimble/Bowe

barnesd

Moncti48 - Your bench only has 3 forwards. You need at least 4.

I can't see how Earls merits a start at 12 either.

thehighground

Moncti48 wrote: »

15. Kearney - Best in this position
14. Fitzgearld - Partnership with BOD didnt work so can be used better on the wing
13. BOD - simply because he wont be dropped no matter what people say
12. Earls - has done enough this season to merit a start
11. Trimble/Bowe - both playing well

10. Humphreys/keatly - Both made fools of ROG. time for o gara to go, just like he disloged David humphreys
9. TOL - better for the team than reddan

1. Horan - who else
2. Dont Care either or
3. Hayes - any man who can lift POC on his own deserves to start

4. POC - simple
5. DOC - playing ****, if he ****s up in 1st game change to Cullen/ryan

6. Ferris - best 6 Ireland has right now
7. Wallace - Jennings hasnt played well this season, and Wallace is Ireland best carrier
8. Leamy - still 26 and has more to offer than heaslip. strenght and dynamism that heaslip doesnt have. heaslip hasnt played well for Ireland at 8


16. Flannery/Best whichever
17. Buckley
18. Heaslip
19. P. Wallace/Darcy
20. Reddan
21. ROG
22. Trimble/Bowe

How did they make a fool of ROG? (you do realise that he didn't play against Connacht, and he went off injured after 15 mins against Ulster). He was also rested when Munster played Ulster in Ravenhill.

Earls has only played one game at 13 this season, so I can't see how he has done more than Paddy Wallace.

Moncti48

sorry Obviously Cullen/Casey/Ryan whichever would need to be on the bench.

And the reason behind Earls at 12 was something new. Hes playing well at 13 and full back and im sure he could play at 12. however if people disagree you could do 1 of many things,
Play earls on the wing and put Fitzgearld at 12,

play fitz at 12, earls at 15 or kearney on the wing(Would prefer Kearney at 15)

play darcy at 12 and drop either fitzgearld or earls..

or play darcy at 14 and fitz at 12, Not really working at lensiter cant see it working with Ireland


Ireland have always had a problem that when things go wrong with ROG they dont have somebody else who can change things for them at 12, at least with earls he offers abit more than fitz, personal opinion, you may feel otherwise.

Moncti48

or go mad and play paddy wallace at 12

barnesd

Moncti48 wrote: »

sorry Obviously Cullen/Casey/Ryan whichever would need to be on the bench.

And the reason behind Earls at 12 was something new. Hes playing well at 13 and full back and im sure he could play at 12. That is a massive jump in logic, he's only had 1 start for Munster at 13 which was solid if unspectacular however if people disagree you could do 1 of many things,
Play earls on the wing and put Fitzgearld at 12, I'm not especially convinced by Fitz either, I'm beginning to think more and more that wing his his best position

play fitz at 12, earls at 15 or kearney on the wing(Would prefer Kearney at 15)

play darcy at 12 and drop either fitzgearld or earls.. If D'Arcy gets a game there for Leinster soon

or play darcy at 14 and fitz at 12, Not really working at lensiter cant see it working with Ireland Agreed


Ireland have always had a problem that when things go wrong with ROG they dont have somebody else who can change things for them at 12, at least with earls he offers abit more than fitz, personal opinion, you may feel otherwise.

Paddy Wallace isn't a mad option at all. He's a good player.

Goose81

barnesd wrote: »

Paddy Wallace isn't a mad option at all. He's a good player.

Good club level player imo.
We have better players available but is it worth playing them out of position at 12 or play him in his right position?

These are the questions Kidney is gona have to find out.

Moncti48

thehighground wrote: »

How did they make a fool of ROG? (you do realise that he didn't play against Connacht, and he went off injured after 15 mins against Ulster). He was also rested when Munster played Ulster in Ravenhill.

Earls has only played one game at 13 this season, so I can't see how he has done more than Paddy Wallace.

Sorry just feel on how everybody is playing this season Rog is third in line for a start.

I understand about the Earls at 12, Like i said you coud play wallace at 12 but think on form for this season earls would just edge it, plus being honest Id prefer earls at 13 and wallace at 12 but that will never happen

barnesd

Goose81 wrote: »

Good club level player imo.
We have better players available but is it worth playing them out of position at 12 or play him in his right position?

These are the questions Kidney is gona have to find out.

Did you miss the summer tour?

thehighground

Moncti48 wrote: »

Ireland have always had a problem that when things go wrong with ROG they dont have somebody else who can change things for them at 12, at least with earls he offers abit more than fitz, personal opinion, you may feel otherwise.

Not true, we haven't always had a problem. Up to about 3/4 years ago we had two very good OH in David Humphreys & ROG. ROG actually spent about 4 years sitting on the bench hoping for 20 minute run-ons at the end before becoming first choice OH

Thats the way it usually happens for such a pivotal role of OH - you have to do an apprenticship. Most centres/OHs also play wing or FB until they develop physically enough to play in the centre or as OH.

thehighground

Moncti48 wrote: »

Sorry just feel on how everybody is playing this season Rog is third in line for a start.

I understand about the Earls at 12, Like i said you coud play wallace at 12 but think on form for this season earls would just edge it, plus being honest Id prefer earls at 13 and wallace at 12 but that will never happen

I'd say most coaches wouldn't agree with you. Keatley & Ian Humphs have a lot more to do before they will be first choice OH for Ireland.

Anyway, D'Arcy seems to be playing well. I wouldn't write him off just yet either.

Moncti48

thehighground wrote: »

Not true, we haven't always had a problem. Up to about 3/4 years ago we had two very good OH in David Humphreys & ROG. ROG actually spent about 4 years sitting on the bench hoping for 20 minute run-ons at the end before becoming first choice OH

Thats the way it usually happens for such a pivotal role of OH - you have to do an apprenticship. Most centres/OHs also play wing or FB until they develop physically enough to play in the centre or as OH.

But i Said recently, nobody has even been challenging ROG for his position. I agree he did spend plenty of time playing 20mins games, but right now nobody is even getting that oppurtunity. new manager maybe try something new. If it doesnt work we Kidney can always go back to ROG and try something new.

thehighground

Moncti48 wrote: »

But i Said recently, nobody has even been challenging ROG for his position. I agree he did spend plenty of time playing 20mins games, but right now nobody is even getting that oppurtunity. new manager maybe try something new. If it doesnt work we Kidney can always go back to ROG and try something new.

No, this is what you did (you selected Humphs/Keatley starting).

10. Humphreys/keatly - Both made fools of ROG. time for o gara to go, just like he disloged David humphreys
9. TOL - better for the team than reddan

I take it you are from Limerick and this is some sort of a Cork/Limerick/Cork Con rivalry thing

Goose81

barnesd wrote: »

Did you miss the summer tour?

Nope,but I still stand by what I said.Other countries have much better options.He is a good player but not a great player.

A player like cave,fitz or Earls are good players but have the potential to be great.Wallace is 29,its worth developng younger players tbh.

In saying that I would still play him,but I would also try others at 12 aswell.For example if darce gets back playing well he should go 12,as imo he is the best 12 we have.

Moncti48

thehighground wrote: »

No, this is what you did (you selected Humphs/Keatley starting).




I take it you are from Limerick and this is some sort of a Cork/Limerick/Cork Con rivalry thing

Because right now humphs/keatley are the inform OH in the country.


Jez limerick, thanks for that. No not from limerick or cork so not really

twinytwo

its going to end up something like

1 Horan
2 Flans
3 Hayes
4 DOC
5 POC
6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip
9 O'Leary
10 Rog
11Earls/Kearney
12 D'arcy
13 Drico
14 Bowe
15 Earls/Kearney/Dempsey

We can go on about this for hours but this goes back to the same old ****e once ur in the team u cant get out.... if we are going to be honest with ourselves that will prob be the team for the france game anyway.

Moncti48

twinytwo wrote: »

its going to end up something like

1 Horan
2 Flans
3 Hayes
4 DOC
5 POC
6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip
9 O'Leary
10 Rog
11Earls/Kearney
12 D'arcy
13 Drico
14 Bowe
15 Earls/Kearney/Dempsey

We can go on about this for hours but this goes back to the same old ****e once ur in the team u cant get out.... if we are going to be honest with ourselves that will prob be the team for the france game anyway.

Sure bring back hickie at 11, murphy at 14, dempsey at 15 its back to where we were 5 years ago.

twinytwo

Moncti48 wrote: »

Sure bring back hickie at 11, murphy at 14, dempsey at 15 its back to where we were 5 years ago.

exactly my point

Diom

The eternal excuse to keep Connacht players out of the Irish team is "Sure he hasn't even played HEC yet!". Sick of it. It is basically a beating stick to keep Connacht from getting ideas above their station. You may as well say "it doesn't matter how well you play, because you play for Connacht".
It would at least be honest.

If Keatley was performing as he has at Connacht, but instead was at the RDS or Thomond, people would be baying for blood if he was left out of the Irish setup. Be honest with yourselves about it.

premierstone

Diom wrote: »

The eternal excuse to keep Connacht players out of the Irish team is "Sure he hasn't even played HEC yet!". Sick of it. It is basically a beating stick to keep Connacht from getting ideas above their station. You may as well say "it doesn't matter how well you play, because you play for Connacht".
It would at least be honest.

If Keatley was performing as he has at Connacht, but instead was at the RDS or Thomond, people would be baying for blood if he was left out of the Irish setup. Be honest with yourselves about it.

But you need to be honest aswell, there is a reason he is at Connaught - he was third choice at leinster and at the start of the season if he had been at Munster he would in all likelyhood have been fourth choice, now there is no denying he has improved immensely in the interim and great credit to him and Connaught for this but personally I think it would be a monumental mistake to throw him into International rugby right now and quite frankly would be unfair on the lad himself, he's time will come and he's on the right track but ask yourself this - Irish rugby fans will be confident almost expecting us to either win the championship or come very close to doing so, now our three rivals for this are Wales, France and England, are you honestly telling me that any of the coaches of those three would play a player of Keatleys standing in the game in a 6N match??

Diom

Sorry I should have been clearer. When I said "in the Irish setup" I didn't necessarily mean that he should be given a seat on the match day 22. Basically what I want to see in inclusion. Keatley given "A" games, and called into the training squads. It would could only be good for Ireland, Connacht and Keatley to show him his progress is noticed and that efforts will be rewarded.
You're right if he had stayed at Leinster he probably would not have gotten his shot. But now he kicks over 90% accuracy, starting in a team that plays in a very competitive and very tough league, against some of the very best players in the world. It's not the HEC, but you cannot punish individuals because they are in a team that is under-funded and handicapped by their controlling body. Plus he is playing in a cup competition against the number one English club (London Irish are in the same pool as Connacht).

These points also are applicable to Mr Cronin, Mr Muldoon and to a lesser extent F.Murphy and J.O'Connor.

Crash

To a lesser extent Frank Murphy? In my eyes, Murphy is the most consistent scrummie for an Irish province this season, has IMO made the biggest difference possible in Connacht, has a quick pass from the base of the ruck, and the ability to snipe and hassle extremely well.

IMO i'd love to see him at least get some time in an extended squad come 6 nations time.