Irish Squad/Ireland XV for Six Nations?

Chucky the tree

chupacabra wrote: »

Depends in what country you live in, England will be favourites to win with the english press/fans , French in the french press/fans etc. irish press are somewhat more realistic and will probably even LOOK for faults in the irish team once announced.

Real test for Kidney is this 6N.

I'll be interested too see what english newspaper has them as favourites. Even the majoirty of their fans wont.

toomevara

chupacabra wrote: »

Depends in what country you live in, England will be favourites to win with the english press/fans

Sorry chupa, but thats absolutely daft...English fans are dreading this 6N and are regarding it as a damage limitation exercise. The tenor of the coverage revolves largely around avoiding humiliation and getting their team on some sort of solid footing...

Yesterday's Times article by Stephen Jones ( a man not noted for his lack of hubris when it comes to English rugby) with the title "England could be mauled" probably best sums up people's attitude over here at the moment.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article5537233.ece

Noopti

Anyone else think Healy is looking more and more like he could step up to international level?

Tbh I would give him as many opportunities as possible to start in the 6N. He has really come on a lot on the past year or so, and his scrummaging has really improved. I think if he is given proper game time he could really push it on another level.

jam_on_toast

Noopti wrote: »

Anyone else think Healy is looking more and more like he could step up to international level?

Tbh I would give him as many opportunities as possible to start in the 6N. He has really come on a lot on the past year or so, and his scrummaging has really improved. I think if he is given proper game time he could really push it on another level.

His scrumaging still needs improvement but he is very good in the loose. I'd like to see him get some game time in the 6N, off the bench for Horan.

Would also like to see a tight head being given game time off the bench too (in another game obviously).

If they do well, a start should be in order. Not two new guys at once though. One of Horan or Hayes should start.

twinytwo

thehighground wrote: »

I don't think Ireland are world beaters - but I don't think we are 'poo' which is the post I was responding to.

I think most people at the end of a beating would think that way. For instance, when Munster beat Leinster in the RDS recently, a lot of people said (and as a Munster supporter myself, I would have agreed with at the time), that there wasn't as much difference between the teams as suggested by the score on the day.

we had our chance at that.. 07 was our year and it was let slip. That said on a given day Ireland have the beatings of any other team

Rattlehead_ie

THis is my 22 man squad. I'm not going pick a starting 15 (if thats ok) cause I think each game brings a different opposition & different tactics are needed and therefore some players are better than others in certain game plans

Kearrney – Great go forward attackign skill and his hands are to die for (wow that was gay)
Earls C - Great prospect and just needs more international time.
Murphy[J] – Scoring tries for the fun of it in Leicter
ODriscoll – Work rate is still unbelievable even if he isn't 100% of his former self (although I think that more to do with who is around him)
Cave – Playing well for Ulster
Fitzgerald – I don't like his partnership with BOD I believe is wrong, but I cant deny he is a talent and should be developed on the wing.
OGara – Im going on his Munster performance which is still v good, although he doesn't carry it always into International he is still my #1 kicker
Humphries – backup for above and his ability to lead his line for Ulster is extremely impressive, a good replacement not just for injuries
O’Leary – Plays like a modern number 9, although would prefer to see him pass ball straigh out rather than this one step then pass
Reddan – Playing better than any of the other alternatives at the moment (Stringer, Boss)

Horan – Meh
Flannery – lineout/all round loose play
Best – if we need to shore up the scrum. His rucking ability for Ulster these days is great
Hayes – a terrific servant for this country
Court – Can cover both sides of scrum
OCallaghan – Has a few ropey games for Munster but against Sale was fantastic
OConnell – Captain
Casey – Playing well for L. Irish
Ferris – Prob 1st choic number 6
Leamy – he is everywhere a backrow should be
Wallace –
Heaslip -

Podge_irl

You'd have to change one of the props for a back-row.

Moncti48

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

THis is my 22 man squad. I'm not going pick a starting 15 (if thats ok) cause I think each game brings a different opposition & different tactics are needed and therefore some players are better than others in certain game plans

Kearrney – Great go forward attackign skill and his hands are to die for (wow that was gay)
Earls C - Great prospect and just needs more international time.
Murphy[J] – Scoring tries for the fun of it in Leicter
ODriscoll – Work rate is still unbelievable even if he isn't 100% of his former self (although I think that more to do with who is around him)
Cave – Playing well for Ulster
Fitzgerald – I don't like his partnership with BOD I believe is wrong, but I cant deny he is a talent and should be developed on the wing.
OGara – Im going on his Munster performance which is still v good, although he doesn't carry it always into International he is still my #1 kicker
Humphries – backup for above and his ability to lead his line for Ulster is extremely impressive, a good replacement not just for injuries
O’Leary – Plays like a modern number 9, although would prefer to see him pass ball straigh out rather than this one step then pass
Reddan – Playing better than any of the other alternatives at the moment (Stringer, Boss)

Horan – Meh
Flannery – lineout/all round loose play
Best – if we need to shore up the scrum. His rucking ability for Ulster these days is great
Hayes – a terrific servant for this country
Court – Can cover both sides of scrum
Ross – Plays for H/Quinns just in case ppl are unfamiliar.
OCallaghan – Has a few ropey games for Munster but against Sale was fantastic
OConnell – Captain
Casey – Playing well for L. Irish
Ferris – Prob 1st choic number 6
Leamy – he is everywhere a backrow should be
Wallace –

Heaslip will be added to that somewhere, il assume for one of the props

Wallace will probaly make the 22. maybe instead of cave/murphy/humphs(wallace used as the second choice 10 so as to free up another positon)

Rattlehead_ie

Edited slightly.I got a bit carried away with the props
Ill still stick with my list of backs thought as my preference.

jam_on_toast

Moncti48 wrote: »

Heaslip will be added to that somewhere, il assume for one of the props

Wallace will probaly make the 22. maybe instead of cave/murphy/humphs(wallace used as the second choice 10 so as to free up another positon)

Humphries HAS TO GET proper game time in this 6N, putting wallace on the bench as back up 10 is not on.

We are wasting our time playing O'Gara for 78mins every game.

Webbs

thehighground wrote: »

Looks are deceptive - Ireland actually did better against the ABs than Wales did!

And, the only try scored against the ABs in the NH was by Barry Murphy (created and scored by two Irish players who can't make the Irish team).

And before you say this wasn't a full ABs - it was pretty much the same team that played against Scotland.

Various results from AIs

Ireland 3 v 22 NZ (-19)
Munster 16 v 18 NZ (-2)
Wales 9 v 29 NZ (-20)
England 6 v 32 NZ (-26) - same as Scotland

Wales in SA during the summer

SA 37 v 21 Wales
SA 43 v 17 Wales

last season 6Ns
Ireland 12 v 16 Wales (Tight enough result).

Doesn't seem to me that Wales are miles in front of us - and the Millenium is like home to the Irish pack who are used to seeing a sea of red there

Wales came into the SA game with no preparation (players werent released) and should have beaten them, against NZ there were numerous quotes at the time from players and management that Wales were by far their toughest test and then beat Australia. So with last years GS a decent autumn and despite final scores the second SA tests was a very tight affair. They would be favourites (would you not be thinking Ireland asd favourites if the past 12 months had seen the Welsh and Irish results/performances reversed)

The 6N will be a tight one, I would have Ireland and Wales as the likely winners, though its all down to momentum, if Wales can beat England first up convincingly then they will have their tails up and be difficult to beat, if they win but play poorly or lose then the welsh public will start looking for scapegoats, pressure will mount and I dont see a successful campaign.

Similarly Ireland if they can get off to a flier playing the rugby that they are capable of then it will be a successful campaign for them

twinytwo

every year everyone writes off italy and one year its going to bite everyone in the ass

Stev_o

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Would you really leave O Gara out of your 22?

Jaysus forgot about that Put him in at the expense of one of the backs there.

But on the matter of ROG do people think he should be dropped now after 3 games of being incredibly mediocre? Mean people are saying he should start because they are afraid of Humphries goal kicking yet i recall O'Gara having a fupping awful strike rate in the past 5 matches. How many did he miss against Sale? Clermount game could of been over and done by if he got his kicking boots right. First kick against Ulster went wide. While you have Humphries up with Ulster slotting goals under enormous pressure he dealt with the wind perfectly against Quins and im sorry but kicking against that wind is alot tougher then what he ll face in the 6N

Goose81

To the people saying healy isnt a good enough scrummager,look who is ahead of him.

Horan is able to do a job and thats it,he would be mauled by most good props except he has a huge lock behind him.

I reckon healy would be more than capable,with the same power behind him.I know weight doesnt mean alot in the scrummaging aspect but I still think its valid to list their stats:

Horan 6'1 16 stone 7lbs

Healy 6'1 17stone 4lbs

Healy is 21 and hasnt got an ounce of fat on him.Is much more destructive in the loose.


The problem comes when you chose which team to blood him in.Scotland and Italy,the 2 "weakest teams" both have very good packs,so who do you play him against?
france? Wales?

thehighground

Webbs wrote: »

Wales came into the SA game with no preparation (players werent released) and should have beaten them, against NZ there were numerous quotes at the time from players and management that Wales were by far their toughest test and then beat Australia. So with last years GS a decent autumn and despite final scores the second SA tests was a very tight affair. They would be favourites (would you not be thinking Ireland asd favourites if the past 12 months had seen the Welsh and Irish results/performances reversed)

No, I wouldn't expect Ireland to be favourites. It just seems that everyone think that Wales have a GS in the bag already and its between France and Wales for the championship. (France didn't do too much better than England when playing the PIs).

When SA played SA, they hadn't played together for 6 weeks/2 months - unlike the ABs who had played Australia 2 weeks previously in Hong Kong, and then Scotland the week before. Ireland's preparation for the ABs was Canada - the score was 50-0 to Ireland. Wales v Canada (34-13).

When Wales beat the Australian, it was their 4th game playing together - and it was pretty tight in the autumn - (Wales 21-18 Aus)

The 6N will be a tight one, I would have Ireland and Wales as the likely winners, though its all down to momentum, if Wales can beat England first up convincingly then they will have their tails up and be difficult to beat, if they win but play poorly or lose then the welsh public will start looking for scapegoats, pressure will mount and I dont see a successful campaign.

Similarly Ireland if they can get off to a flier playing the rugby that they are capable of then it will be a successful campaign for them

If Wales don't beat England convincingly at home, they may as well give up rugby. I'd have no fear of ireland going to the Cardiff - its nearly always a fairly happy hunting ground and the Munster players will certainly feel right at home in a Milenium stadium decked in red.

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

But on the matter of ROG do people think he should be dropped now after 3 games of being incredibly mediocre? Mean people are saying he should start because they are afraid of Humphries goal kicking yet i recall O'Gara having a fupping awful strike rate in the past 5 matches. How many did he miss against Sale? Clermount game could of been over and done by if he got his kicking boots right. First kick against Ulster went wide. While you have Humphries up with Ulster slotting goals under enormous pressure he dealt with the wind perfectly against Quins and im sorry but kicking against that wind is alot tougher then what he ll face in the 6N

You seem to forget that Munster scored 6 trys against the best defence in the Premiership! There is more to an outhalf than just kicking goals. You really need to look at the Munster v Sale game again before making such a comment that ROG should be dropped. For starters - watch what ROG does for POC's try. Then have a look at what he does for Fla's try. Have a look at his distribution. Sale being 'managed' into midfield, then lots of long skip passes from ROG & Co. out to the wings. (Nearly all the trys were scored on the wings, which makes them a little bit more difficult to convert).

Munster must be the only team in the Heineken Cup that doesn't play aerial ping pong at the moment.

As for the kicking - he is just coming back from a hamstring injury - so probably has had little kicking practice in the last couple of weeks. And ROG never misses the important kicks!

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

You seem to forget that Munster scored 6 trys against the best defence in the Premiership! There is more to an outhalf than just kicking goals. You really need to look at the Munster v Sale game again before making such a comment that ROG should be dropped. For starters - watch what ROG does for POC's try. Then have a look at what he does for Fla's try. Have a look at his distribution. Sale being 'managed' into midfield, then lots of long skip passes from ROG & Co. out to the wings. (Nearly all the trys were scored on the wings, which makes them a little bit more difficult to convert).

Munster must be the only team in the Heineken Cup that doesn't play aerial ping pong at the moment.

As for the kicking - he is just coming back from a hamstring injury - so probably has had little kicking practice in the last couple of weeks. And ROG never misses the important kicks!

ROG playing for Munster and ROG playing for Ireland are unfortunately two very different animals of late. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and he is still the best option to start against France, but he was pretty rank in the last few Ireland matches and if he continues that form I would like to see someone, anyone, take his place for a while.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

ROG playing for Munster and ROG playing for Ireland are unfortunately two very different animals of late. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and he is still the best option to start against France, but he was pretty rank in the last few Ireland matches and if he continues that form I would like to see someone, anyone, take his place for a while.

Any chance you might think the failure of ROG to perform miracles for the Ireland backline has anything to do with the Irish backline being out of form and not actually playing as a team?

Do you honestly think that Ian Humphreys will sort this out?

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Any chance you might think the failure of ROG to perform miracles for the Ireland backline has anything to do with the Irish backline being out of form and not actually playing as a team?

Do you honestly think that Ian Humphreys will sort this out?

I'm not talking about the backline, I'm taking about ROG. He was personally quite poor in the AIs I thought, whatever about the rest of the backline. He wasn't great towards the end of last years 6 Nations either. He is back in form for Munster so hopefully he can translate that to international level, but its not something he's always managed.

I doubt it but if ROG continues to play poorly for Ireland that its worth giving him a shot. I'd just be happy if ROG was taken off for once when he's having a mare rather then being left on for 80 minutes. For the record, I still think he is the best fly-half available to Ireland, but that doesn't excuse a run of poor games if it continues.

Goose81

The Rog debate is sort of Like the Bod debate,do you drop him or not?

Bod always does well imo for Ireland and Rog does his best (which is usually brilliant) but he seems to need to play with people week in and out to get them going.

I think Rog's age really has to come in to this debate though.He is around 2 years older than Bod.this will prove a major hill in the next world cup.

Rog always seems to provide God with sound ball that he likes and for that reason alone he should be kept as Bod is the only player we have that when on form ****s over other 13's but maybe we should experiment more with the 10's and even 13's we have available.

I know that if I was going into a WC final tommorow I would want Rog and Bod to be playing but I do think that kidn ey should take Rog out of his comfort Zone and make him play a different type of game.IMO he is good enough to adapt.

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

You seem to forget that Munster scored 6 trys against the best defence in the Premiership! There is more to an outhalf than just kicking goals. You really need to look at the Munster v Sale game again before making such a comment that ROG should be dropped. For starters - watch what ROG does for POC's try. Then have a look at what he does for Fla's try. Have a look at his distribution. Sale being 'managed' into midfield, then lots of long skip passes from ROG & Co. out to the wings. (Nearly all the trys were scored on the wings, which makes them a little bit more difficult to convert).

Munster must be the only team in the Heineken Cup that doesn't play aerial ping pong at the moment.

As for the kicking - he is just coming back from a hamstring injury - so probably has had little kicking practice in the last couple of weeks. And ROG never misses the important kicks!

But hold on ROG's distribution isnt his best aspect and thats well acknowledged by everyone. I mean any good out half should be a master at passing so i dont see the point?? You know i cant see anything that ROG has done in terms of his passing that any of the other OH's haven't

The main problem i have is his kicking which had started to creak before his hammers went. Now granted it could be to do with them but maybe not and then sure if you take out his kicking game he ll fall of the list as number 1 out half.

Micky Dolenz

Stev_o wrote: »

The main problem i have is his kicking which had started to creak before his hammers went. Now granted it could be to do with them but maybe not and then sure if you take out his kicking game he ll fall of the list as number 1 out half.

I kinda of agree with you. He is a talented player and it is a joy to follow his career. but I feel his mind is else where. BTW I thought he had a very good game @ weekend.

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

But hold on ROG's distribution isnt his best aspect and thats well acknowledged by everyone. I mean any good out half should be a master at passing so i dont see the point?? You know i cant see anything that ROG has done in terms of his passing that any of the other OH's haven't

The main problem i have is his kicking which had started to creak before his hammers went. Now granted it could be to do with them but maybe not and then sure if you take out his kicking game he ll fall of the list as number 1 out half.

I responded to a post that said that ROG was playing badly in his last couple of games - this seems to have been based solely on missing a few kicks. The poster didn't seem to realise that ROG created 4 of the 6 trys that were scored the other night - 2 of them were where he retrieved the ball (POCs & Fla's try).

I wouldn't worry about his kicking at this stage of his career - ROG will get it sorted, I'd say.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm not talking about the backline, I'm taking about ROG. He was personally quite poor in the AIs I thought, whatever about the rest of the backline. He wasn't great towards the end of last years 6 Nations either. He is back in form for Munster so hopefully he can translate that to international level, but its not something he's always managed.

I doubt it but if ROG continues to play poorly for Ireland that its worth giving him a shot. I'd just be happy if ROG was taken off for once when he's having a mare rather then being left on for 80 minutes. For the record, I still think he is the best fly-half available to Ireland, but that doesn't excuse a run of poor games if it continues.

In the AIs - Ireland played well against Canada, not well against ABs (in comparison to the summer tour down there). Ireland were playing their first games under the ELVs and a whole new coaching structure and a fair few newish caps involved - the ABs have spent a season playing them and they just played Australia & Scotland. And Ireland lost because O'Gara had a mare!

O'Gara & the pack won the Argentinian game. The rest (bar tommy bowe who got lucky) might as well not have been on the pitch for all they contributed.

RuggieBear

Squad named today.

probably with a new captain.

jam_on_toast

RuggieBear wrote: »

Squad named today.

probably with a new captain.

I wonder who that could be!:D

Noopti

RuggieBear wrote: »

Squad named today.

probably with a new captain.

Hopefully. Ireland needs change (hmm......sounds familar), we have a new coaching team, some new young players and we need a new captain. Give it to O'Connell, he has made it his own with Munster and he can make it his own with Ireland too.

toomevara

RuggieBear wrote: »

Squad named today.

probably with a new captain.

Any idea what time Ruggie?

MCOS

My 2c

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Fitzgerald
12 BOD
11 Earls
10 ROG
9 Reddan

1 Horan
2 Best
3 Hayes
4 O' Callaghan
5 POC - C
6 Ferris
7 Wallace
8 Leamy

Bench
16 Buckley
17 Flannery
18 Donnacha Ryan
19 Niall Ronan
20 Tomas O'Leary
21 Paddy Wallace
22 G. Murphy

Serenity Now!

toomevara wrote: »

Any idea what time Ruggie?

2pm.
As for the new captaincy thing, I think Ruggie was just voicing an opinion.