Munster v Ulster at Thomond Park, predictions anyone?

sm.org

Nukem wrote: »

Hehe - Munster got screw'd. How do you fix the Munster team now???????
28 point hammering and you lose two lead players through injury.......................great nights work!

I'm willing to put 100 euro's in a paypal holding account that Munster still have a better season then any of the other Irish provinces. If you're up for it?

liam12989

well done ulster and unlucky munster....this might be what munster needs...a kick up da a**

i think its great for Irish rugby we now have 4 provinces that are very competitive...


bring on Stade and Quins from an ulster point of view i think everyone would love to see them bring this form to European stage!!

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Hopefully these Ulster guys are rewarded by the Irish Management for showing such good form over the past few matches they are really putting up their hands

Easily the best backline of the provinces. Court and Ferris very impressive too. And that's without Best, Pollock and Caldwell! Though Munster weren't full strength either. Court, Wallace and Cave to start? Providing they keep it up of course. Shame they had such a slow start to the season. Would be nice to have 3 teams in the last 8 of the heineken cup. At this rate though it'll be none.

sm.org

sock puppet wrote: »

Easily the best backline of the provinces. Court and Ferris very impressive too. And that's without Best, Pollock and Caldwell! Though Munster weren't full strength either. Court, Wallace and Cave to start? Providing they keep it up of course. Shame they had such a slow start to the season. Would be nice to have 3 teams in the last 8 of the heineken cup. At this rate though it'll be none.

I'd like to see them put it in over the course of a season as opposed to a couple of games. It's easy to forget that they were fairly average last week.

Having said that its reassuring to finally have some potential options at 10/7/12.

Serenity Now!

Nukem wrote: »

Hehe - Munster got screw'd. How do you fix the Munster team now???????
28 point hammering and you lose two lead players through injury.......................great nights work!

One of those players is an Irish international player and the best kicker in the country so not quite so "great" a night's work :rolleyes:

Ulster were very impressive in their execution. That pack really made the game for them. I could see what Munster were trying to do but you've got to have something to base that kind of game upon first.

Well done both teams for actually playing rugby and having the balls & spine to ruck instead of kicking upfield all the time.
Its nice to see some depth now for competition in the Irish team.

newmills

"Its nice to see some depth now for competition in the Irish team"

Pity there won't be any competition for places though. I reckon kidney will do what Eos used to do and that is stick rigidly with basically the same core of players. Maybe an outsider coaching ireland would give other guys a chance - but in my opinion it will be business as usual come the six nations with a mainly munster pack and leinster backs. Results seem to matter more than building a strong national team ie more than 22 players.

barnesd

newmills wrote: »

"Its nice to see some depth now for competition in the Irish team"

Pity there won't be any competition for places though. I reckon kidney will do what Eos used to do and that is stick rigidly with basically the same core of players.

Yep, it's unfortunate but true.

Serenity Now!

newmills wrote: »

Results seem to matter more than building a strong national team ie more than 22 players.

You need a "strong national team" to win results.
The best Irish coach around, a world cup winning coach and a proven defensive coach are involved in selection.
I don't think tribalism or conservatism comes into it. At the end of the day, there is only room for so many players. I'd trust them to pick the best available.
With some of the comments from people here, you'd swear Messrs Kidney, Smal and Kiss didn't give a sh*te about winning and hadn't a clue how to do it.

Edit: I will add that I have my reservations about Alan Gaffney's tactics for the backs in attack. At least if you're going to try the fast flat backline thats hard to defend against, have a plan B for an alternative mode of attack for when this doesn't work.

newmills

You need a "strong national team" to win results.

I think what i meant to say is that maybe we could sacrifice winning some 6 nations games in order to "blood" some of the newer guys. No disrespect to kidney but the squad selection seems to have a very familiar look about it. I'm not saying kick them all out and start again but wouldn't it be a start to have the confidence to drop a few of the "big" names who are not performing and bring in a few names who are?

thehighground

newmills wrote: »

I'm not saying kick them all out and start again but wouldn't it be a start to have the confidence to drop a few of the "big" names who are not performing and bring in a few names who are?

I'd trust Kidney & his coaching team to pick whoever they feel is best for the job on hand. As for having the confidence of dropping big names for big games - Kidney has done that in Munster fairly recently for youth - i.e., Peter Stringer for Tomas O'Leary, Shaun Payne for Denis Hurley, not to mention Mr. Heineken Cup himself, Anthony Foley who didn't even get a bench spot for the the Final despite having featured in nearly every game up to that.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Myself, not sure about Denis Hurley at 15, he has been prone to mistakes under the high ball this season, really has been shoved out of squad by the emergence of Earls at fullback.

Well I am definitely right about Hurley. He cost us the try at the end of the first half that killed the game as a contest. Was at the game myself. The atmosphere at the start of the game was electic, in the second half you'd find more atmosphere in a graveyard.

The pass that lead to Ulster's first try was clearly forward. Poor from ref/touch judges. O' Gara's injury was a huge loss. However, fair play to Ulster, they took their chances. We were lethargic, there was no spark in the team, shades of Ireland at RWC2007. Our discipline was shocking. However Munster played with passion right till the end, but there was only one real team on the pitch. Ulster deserved their bonus point victory.

Although devastated as a Munster fan, I hope this turns around Ulster's season. Players like Cave, Humphreys, Pollock MUST be considered by Kidney for 6N. The age of Munster/Leinster dominance in the Ireland team must end now. New blood from Connacht and Ulster must be brought in to clean out the "Untouchable XV" of the Eddie O' Sullivan era. The current problem in the Ireland set up is that the province you play for matters more for an international call up than your own personal form.

sm.org

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well I am definitely right about Hurley. He cost us the try at the end of the first half that killed the game as a contest. Was at the game myself. The atmosphere at the start of the game was electic, in the second half you'd find more atmosphere in a graveyard.

The pass that lead to Ulster's first try was clearly forward. Poor from ref/touch judges. O' Gara's injury was a huge loss. However, fair play to Ulster, they took their chances. We were lethargic, there was no spark in the team, shades of Ireland at RWC2007. Our discipline was shocking. However Munster played with passion right till the end, but there was only one real team on the pitch. Ulster deserved their bonus point victory.

Although devastated as a Munster fan, I hope this turns around Ulster's season. Players like Cave, Humphreys, Pollock MUST be considered by Kidney for 6N. The age of Munster/Leinster dominance in the Ireland team must end now. New blood from Connacht and Ulster must be brought in to clean out the "Untouchable XV" of the Eddie O' Sullivan era. The current problem in the Ireland set up is that the province you play for matters more for an international call up than your own personal form.

I'd watch a reply of the game before indulging in public masturbation. Though not saying much Hurley was easily munsters best player.

thomond2006

sm.org wrote: »

I'd watch a reply of the game before indulging in public masturbation. Though not saying much Hurley was easily munsters best player.

Are you joking me???? I was at the match and Hurley was terrible. his concession of a 5 metre scrum at the end was the worst schoolboy error I have ever seen in rugby. He makes too many errors and doesn't have the confidence to catch a garryowen. Ulster knew of that frailty and exploited it to the full.

Bounty Hunter

Ive never seen munster worse than that, it was painfull to watch. from the non existant pack to the passes to nobody, I also cant recall munster losing by that much to anyone no matter what Munster 15 played, it was horrible! couldent have been worse even if O'Gara and Tipoki went off injured.... o wait

god that was miserable.

RuggieBear

Nukem wrote: »

Hehe - Munster got screw'd. How do you fix the Munster team now???????
28 point hammering and you lose two lead players through injury.......................great nights work!

no need for that. pretty poor form to wish injury on anyone.

ulster were awesome tbh....thank god they didn't play like that against leinster. munster were poor...but tbh the those injuries could really come back to haunt them. tipoki is hugely important and rog is absolutely ****ing vital.

DarkJager

Had to walk out of the pub at the 70 min mark I was so disgusted with tonights performance. What in the hell happened to Munster tonight? I don't think I have ever seen such shoddy amateur style rugby from them. That referee isn't fit to ref a ****ing kiddies rugby game let alone a Magners League match. Fair play to Ulster though for a great performance, its just a pity Munster have decided to start 2009 off with such a magnificent display of bollixology.

Goose81

thomond2006 wrote: »

hurley could be the next Iain Balshaw

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well I am definitely right about Hurley. He cost us the try at the end of the first half that killed the game as a contest.

lol

anonymous_joe

He was fairly accurate on that call.

Goose81

anonymous_joe wrote: »

He was fairly accurate on that call.

depends how you look at at it.He went on a lions tour and won a world cup,tonight we have probably witnessed the start of the end of hurley.

anonymous_joe

He also had a habit of fookin up.

I feel sorry for lads like Hurley. They're not really good enough for the pro game, and unlike football, there's no way to stay a pro and drop down a level.

In fairness, I wouldn't call this performance a blip per se, rather I'd say Munster didn't expect Ulster to really turn up, but they've been improving steadily under Matt Williams, and this was one of their best performances in years.

I think a lot of Munster fans should realise that man for man, this current Ulster team is not much weaker than theirs. Same could be said about Leinster. Those three provinces are all quite strong, and Connact are looking better than they have done in years. However, in general, Irish rugby seems to have struggled to adapt to the new rules.

In saying that, certain players like Cave, Humph 2 (this time it's personal) and the much-maligned Paddy Wallace are looking absolutely superb. I'm really hoping to see Wallace starting in the 12 jersey come the 6 Nations. Cave on the bench or in the squad would not disappoint me either. Hell, I think the almighty Bod could do with a real rival for his starting spot. It's very early to start demanding these lads get places in the team, but it's rapidly approaching a stage where the Leinster and predominantly Munster strangehold on the national team is broken. IT seems to me that if you have players of equal skill, those playing for Munster/Leinster get called up ahead of anyone playing for Connact/Ulster/abroad.

Perhaps a 6 Nations back line of:

9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Johne Murphy
12. Wallace
13. O'Driscoll
14. D'arcy/Horgan/Geordan Murphy
15. Kearney

with guys like Fitzgerald, Cave and Humphreys on the bench would inject some new spark into our back play.

RugbyFanatic

I missed the game as I was away but I just think its great that we are hopefully starting to see a third Irish powerhouse province emerging. I really do think its time Cave got a shot in the Irish shirt and this game seemed to back that assertion. Humphries should definitely be put ahead of O'Gara on current form no ifs and buts. Ferris of course has to start and to be honest I would like to see Pollock brought in at 7. Best also seems to be in very good form and must start hooker for Ireland. Right now Wallace is really putting in a bid for a centre partnership along with Cave. Essentially we could see

1.
2.Best
3.Court
4.
5.
6.Ferris
7.Pollock
8.
9.
10. Humphries
11.
12.Wallace
13.Cave
14.
15.

If their form continues we could well be looking at Ulster being the dominant team in the Irish set up and to be honest right now I wouldn't even argue with it

toomevara

Lets keep the toys in the pram for now folks. While last night's display was pretty poor (especially by the lofty standards Munster set themselves), we must remember that the last half decade has been utterly and completely exceptional for Munster (or any club/provincial outfit in the game for that matter). I first started watching games in Thomond in'81 and I can assure you that performances like last night were most definitely the norm rather than the exception!

That Munster appear to have been immune to the vagaries of form has been one of the most amazing things about the team and its achievements over the last decade, but at the moment it's clear that Munster are in a slump, off-form and off their game.

But, so far, we've got it all to play for and its still very much game on for both ML and HC. I'd expect a big response from Munster v the Hairsprays and Sale in the coming weeks and at least Munster can't play as badly as last night again...another HC this year? Looking increasingly unlikely but the fact that alot of folk in Munster were expecting it, almost as a right just shows how spoilt and unreasonable we've become over the past few years. Reckon we'll still be there or there-abouts in both comps come the final shake out, and thats more than good enough for me.

jam_on_toast

Humphries should without question be put in the 10 spot for the 6N. O'Gara has been hopelessly out of form in a green shirt for some time now and is currently being outplayed by his understudy at munster.

Humphries is the spark the irish team needs.

One of Cave or wallace deserves a start also.
Court deserves game time too.

Ferris for the Lions.

toomevara

jam_on_toast wrote: »

Humphries should without question be put in the 10 spot for the 6N. .

Nah, this is,with all due respect crazy stuff. Could see this debate happening last night as the game wore on...Humphreys had one good game against an out of sorts Munster last night. He had the proverbial armchair from which to call the shots.

Lets leave the hyperbole at the door and look at the reality. He has thus far struggled to find any form this season, and is failing to nail down a regular Ulster start. Good game last night definitely, but one swallow does not a summer make. I'd need to see a lot more from Humphreys on a regular and consistent basis before he becomes Ireland's 1st choice ten.

ROG is coming back on form. One of the few Munster marquee names to stand up and take responsibility of late. Pity about the hamstring but, Humphreys ,while promising, is no more than an understudy at best at the moment.

buck65

O Gara shouldn't have started if he was carrying an injury. His grubber kick was needless , he missed a gimme, threw a dreadful "intercept me please" pass. I for one was relieved when he went off. Hope he will be back to his best soon maybe he needs a rest?
Ulster played well and were alot sharper than Munster. In fairness the ball bounced beautifully for Ulster last night and at least 2 of their tries were lucky to say the least. They would have still whis won well anyway.
Munster's attack was a shambles with no imagination at all.
It's time now to dispense with such players as Hurley, Prendergast, Manning and strengthen our squad.
The ref was poor but again this wouldn't have changed the outcome. Ulster got away with killing the clock and the ball whenever Munster got within range ( on too few occasions albeit.)
Players like B Murphy, T Ryan, J Coughlan, F Sheehan, D Fogarty have had alot of game time this year but I fear they don't have the class to really make themselves into serious Munster players of the future or the present in Sheehan's case.
Kieran Lewis to me was like a headless chicken any time he got the ball. Apart from Mick O Driscoll the Munster team were very very poor. If Tipoki is out again I really fear for us. Sad to see Munster lose their grip on the Magner's League they will probably raly against Sale but consistency is eluding them.

sm.org

Timmy ryan and coughlan have played what a total of 80 mins each this year, bit soon to be writing them off.

I agree with you regarding Murphy,Lewis and Fogarty. I'd say ship them west but I'm not sure they'd have them.

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

Lets leave the hyperbole at the door and look at the reality. He has thus far struggled to find any form this season, and is failing to nail down a regular Ulster start. Good game last night definitely, but one swallow does not a summer make. I'd need to see a lot more from Humphreys on a regular and consistent basis before he becomes Ireland's 1st choice ten.

ROG is coming back on form. One of the few Munster marquee names to stand up and take responsibility of late. Pity about the hamstring but, Humphreys ,while promising, is no more than an understudy at best at the moment.

Why? This only hurting Irish rugby in the long term, guys like ROG, BOD and Dempsey are preventing better younger players from being selected. Humphs is 26. Will we wait another year to see how ROG gets on? Or how about 2? Hell how about we just play him against Fiji next year in the AI and leave it at that.

There is a denial idea in the Irish setup, the team is past its best, those house hold names arent providing what they used to anymore. Its time to say right lads there's guys who arent just being selected by their name and are in better form then you.

Do we want another incident of Paddy Wallace at 10??? No thanks

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Why? This only hurting Irish rugby in the long term, guys like ROG, BOD and Dempsey are preventing better younger players from being selected. Humphs is 26. Will we wait another year to see how ROG gets on? Or how about 2? Hell how about we just play him against Fiji next year in the AI and leave it at that.

There is a denial idea in the Irish setup, the team is past its best, those house hold names arent providing what they used to anymore. Its time to say right lads there's guys who arent just being selected by their name and are in better form then you.

Do we want another incident of Paddy Wallace at 10??? No thanks

I want Paddy Wallace starting at 12.

BangBeater

Munster played poor. Really poor. In fact, awful.

That's that the review of the game.

No need to mention Ulster playing well, cause, well they didn't really!

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I want Paddy Wallace starting at 12.

Ref to Wallace was that under EOS he only got what 8 caps and 2 starts during the RWC year and when push came to shove in the RWC when ROG went AWOL and Wallace wasnt used.