Cowen finally admits the truth...

Darragh29

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhsncwidsnql/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0103/1230936613241.html?via=mr

Finally Cowen has told us the truth about the recession we are in. It's going to take five years to repair the damage done to the economy though:

Reckless FF financial mismanagement and overspending.

FF driven overdependancy on government tax revenue streams that were clearly unviable and unsustainable in the medium to long term.

FF failure to encourage and grow small businesses in Ireland that can export.

FF/PD public policy that has bumped billions of Euro into a health service THAT STILL DOESN'T WORK!

FF policy that has us at the mercy of MNC's that have brought low skill, exportable jobs to Ireland that are now moving jobs outside of the state at a rapid rate.

:mad::mad::mad:

galwayrush

So, does that mean that FF will finally stop spouting crap like " Our economy is the envy of Europe" How wrong that piece of Govermental self congratulating **** that turned out to be.:mad:

Darragh29

galwayrush wrote: »

So, does that mean that FF will finally stop spouting crap like " Our economy is the envy of Europe" How wrong that piece of Govermental self congratulating **** that turned out to be.:mad:

It goes to show how utterly out of touch from reality they were all along, talking rubbish about leading edge of technology highly skilled jobs requiring a highly skilled workforce, when all along, the jobs are not particularly high skill and exportable at a drop of a hat. The "fundamantals of the economy are sound!", they should be dragged down O' Connell street and shot for that statement alone.

And he expects the public now to get behind him and row with his boat, a man who has picked the most useless team of idiots I've ever seen to run a country and he himself doesn't even have a mandate as Taoiseacht!

GIVE US A GENERAL ELECTION BRIAN AND F*CK OFF TO THE BACKBENCHES WHERE YOU BELONG!

AKK

Darragh29 wrote: »

!

GIVE US A GENERAL ELECTION BRIAN AND F*CK OFF TO THE BACKBENCHES WHERE YOU BELONG!

But it's the same old problem again. Do we just replace the monkeys with more of the same? I can think of maybe 7 TDs I'd like to see having some bit of responsibility for the direction this country will be taking over the next few years. Just 7 out of 166. Is there anyone who can save this country now or do we just have to hope that Obama will bring a midas touch and save the global economy?

Seems like our present administration are waiting for a rising (world) tide to lift our boat rather than being proactive.

galwayrush

AKK wrote: »

But it's the same old problem again. Do we just replace the monkeys with more of the same? I can think of maybe 7 TDs I'd like to see having some bit of responsibility for the direction this country will be taking over the next few years. Just 7 out of 166. Is there anyone who can save this country now or do we just have to hope that Obama will bring a midas touch and save the global economy?

Seems like our present administration are waiting for a rising (world) tide to lift our boat rather than being proactive.

A change would be refreshing and vastly better than the smug idiots we have at the moment, the Opposition haven't been lying to the public about the state of the Economy for the past 18 months.

bigdaddyliamo

It's like a bad Groundhog day parody...I can see it now:
Opposition limp into office, fumble through the years and as the tide rises and we finally come into the new upturn just in time for the next general election. Que the FF spin machine, sure we know how to spend on health, education and sure here is a large tax cut for everybody...next thing you know we are carrying the shoulder high back into the dail...will we never learn??:rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

galwayrush wrote: »

A change would be refreshing and vastly better than the smug idiots we have at the moment, the Opposition haven't been lying to the public about the state of the Economy for the past 18 months.

I'd agree, but given the **** that FF have landed us in, FG or Labour or whoever would have to make unpalatable choices, would become unpopular, and the FFailures would be voted in again.

If I had ANY faith in FF being able to lead us out of this, I'd say leave FF in there to sort out their mess.

But unfortunately it looks like they haven't a notion; most of us knew this and didn't fall for the pre-election "you can trust us with the economy", but enough idiots voted for them on that basis......I hope they're choking on their leftover turkeys now.....

far2gud

The reality is that we did not prepare for this, if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

galwayrush

bigdaddyliamo wrote: »

It's like a bad Groundhog day parody...I can see it now:
Opposition limp into office, fumble through the years and as the tide rises and we finally come into the new upturn just in time for the next general election. Que the FF spin machine, sure we know how to spend on health, education and sure here is a large tax cut for everybody...next thing you know we are carrying the shoulder high back into the dail...will we never learn??:rolleyes:

I'm an optomist, maybe someday, somewhere, probably in a distant Galaxy.............:rolleyes:
Can you imagine the FF Spin Blame Game we would be suffering at the moment if they were in Opposition.:mad:

galwayrush

far2gud wrote: »

The reality is that we did not prepare for this, if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

Surely we can't blame International factors for encouraging our pyramid type house building scheme that recently toppled over, not to mention incompetence in our HSE, and the pathetic fact that they always to feck things up by projects always coming in late and always vastly over budget, with no one accountable.
Our massive surplus? where did that go?:eek:

Liam Byrne

far2gud wrote: »

The reality is that we did not prepare for this

I agree, if we = the current Government.

if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

There is a global recession, but FF have gotten lucky because it's a scapegoat......in the same way as Anglo Irish got "bailed out" because "all banks are screwed because of the global recession" and we later found out about their own dodgy practices.

Why are "value for money", "long-term prospects", "productivity", "tighter belts", etc only appearing in Government statements NOW ? However much cash you have, you should ALWAYS look for reasonable value for money or a decent return on investment.

The current shower have wasted OUR money left, right and centre on ego projects and waste, and have NOTHING in the country's savings account while happily bailing out the former guests from the Galway races tents - bankers and builders - who made the most cash during the boom.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

AKK

far2gud wrote: »

The reality is that we did not prepare for this, if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

Not strictly true. Our problems are magnified by the global downturn. However, FF led a pig-out during the boom years - the country gorged itself and made no plans for the rainy day. Vested interest groups put the government in its pocket and nobody shouted stop. The first 3 posts on this thread say it all as regards the reality of the mess imo.

And FF are even more blameworthy for their let's bury our heads in the sand approach. Lets react to things only when it's too late. Let's try to keep the artificial boom going as long as we can - let's deny, deny, deny. Oh wait - we've been rumbled. The emperor has no clothes. Let's erect a few smokescreens and pass the buck.

AKK

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I agree, if we = the current Government.




There is a global recession, but FF have gotten lucky because it's a scapegoat......in the same way as Anglo Irish got "bailed out" because "all banks are screwed because of the global recession" and we later found out about their own dodgy practices.

Why are "value for money", "long-term prospects", "productivity", "tighter belts", etc only appearing in Government statements NOW ? However much cash you have, you should ALWAYS look for reasonable value for money or a decent return on investment.

The current shower have wasted OUR money left, right and centre on ego projects and waste, and have NOTHING in the country's savings account while happily bailing out the former guests from the Galway races tents - bankers and builders - who made the most cash during the boom.

+1

Remember when blessed Bertie left office early last year (you know, after a month of curtain calls and parades). What did he reveal to be his biggest regret during his time in office? Not getting the 'Bertie Bowl' monument to his ego built. Yup. 'Nuff said.

Darragh29

far2gud wrote: »

The reality is that we did not prepare for this, if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

Don't agree at all. This government were only last year telling people who saw this coming, that they should go off and commit suicide! This is not me being dramatic here, this is actually what they said!

You can't blame Kofi Annan or Manuel Barroso for our property prices being allowed to climb at a rate that would put an F16 Fighter Jet to absolute shame!

You can't blame these people, or anyone else, for our government throwing money like drunken APES in a strip joint, at every public sector union and vested interest in the country, in order to achieve industrial peace.

The banks that were allowed to engage in reckless lending because the IRISH regulatory system failed to do it's job. Who's fault is that??? It's Ireland Inc that has to bail them out now, not the EU or anyone else, because it is Ireland Inc's problem, caused by Ireland's government, not any other country or person.

AssertiveAction

Cowen is too slow at making any decisions we need him out NOW.
By the time he comes up with his solutions circumstance have become so much worse his solution is obsolete


Why has he not struck a deal with the social partners already he just keeps talking about it? Why is our food here so expensive and always has been, sort that out and then we can reduce min wage. The solutions are easy what’s the hell is his problem just do it. Stop waiting for the world to pick us up they will look after themselves for the next few years. Cowen cabinet are idiots we need get our house in order if the world is ever going to invest in here again. And the unions understand this they will not start striking they know better then people think.

Someone find the RESET button and please press it before this demise gets all too painful:(

galwayrush

What scares me about our current Goverment most it,
They fed us a pack of lies for years about the state of things, but what about if they genuinely believed that their cloud cuckooland was reality:eek:
That is incompetence beyond belief.:mad:

bigdaddyliamo

We need to calm down, once we all vote for FF in the local and Euro elections and pass the re run referendum Europe will build a land bridge to connect us to the mothership and drive truck after truck of intervention goods to our grateful doors.

Hurray for FF, saviours of all!:rolleyes:

brianthebard

bigdaddyliamo wrote: »

It's like a bad Groundhog day parody...I can see it now:
Opposition limp into office, fumble through the years and as the tide rises and we finally come into the new upturn just in time for the next general election. Que the FF spin machine, sure we know how to spend on health, education and sure here is a large tax cut for everybody...next thing you know we are carrying the shoulder high back into the dail...will we never learn??:rolleyes:

This could be the term that breaks FF's hypnotic power over the electorate. This government is clearly inept, and they no longer have the money to brush over that. A populist party like FF will never be able to take the hard decisions necessary to push the economy upwards, and their failings will become apparent to more and more voters.

shqipshume

And thats why i cried when Ireland voted them back in
Been saying years they needed to be gone after first term

johnnyskeleton

The first thing that strikes me about this article is that there is nothing in it to suggest what prompted Cowen to make the statement. Did he get news from the central bank/ERSI/IMF to the effect that the country was worse than he thought? There is nothing to suggest he did, and the fact that this is on a saturday just after new years suggests to me that he has known this to be the state of play for some time, but has been bluffing and blustering his way through the last year in the hope of securing his position as Taoiseach. It is sickening that he could downright lied to the people for so long, when the truth was plain to a lot of people but concealed to the majority by FF spin.

Normally when I hear about the bad things FF do I shrug and sigh - "you get the government you deserve", but no one deserves this. It's plain old deceit but on a grand scale. This government is doomed to fail.

turgon

If anyone here thinks were going to get an election before the 5 years are up, Id have to cry delusion. Unless the numbers drop, and considering FF loyalty I doubt they will, Cowen will grab on to his power in the exact way Bertie Ahern did.

Its a sad scenario, but its true.

jmayo

far2gud wrote: »

The reality is that we did not prepare for this, if FG or Labour were in governent we would be in a similar position. This is a global recession, blaming FF for the economic downturn is ridiculous IMO

I call BS...
What a great contribution, did you get that gem from a FF press cutting or the local cumman newsletter ?
Maybe you will tell us, why then we were the first country in recession, why our revenue shortfall for this year and next is so big ?
Pray tell us why our economy, and government spending, was built on the shaky foundations of a non sustainable industry i.e. construction.
Can you also tell yus why governmnet spending increased so much over the last 10/11 years. It is not as if the services have increased dramtically now is it :rolleyes:

BTW did santa come this Christmas and are the fairies still at the end of the garden :rolleyes:
You do seem to believe in fairytales, especially the fairytales spun by the fianna failures PR machine.
Let me guess you will vote for ff at the next election just like at all the other ones.

AssertiveAction

Yes we will be bankrupt it happened to Argentina they borrowed and borrowed while the whole country became unemployed but they did not reduce there number of civil servants. Their failure to reduce their over inflated public sector prompted the World Bank not to lend them any more money. Ultimately they declared themselves bankrupt and the government was toppled as the country went into turmoil.

FF will not last the course till the next general election because this country will be bankrupt.

"The €18.4 billion is a floor which could be exceeded, by how much, we don't know at this stage," NTMA Chief Executive Michael Somers told reporters. "We're probably somewhere in the low 20s (billions) in the amount of cash we have to raise next year to meet the exchequer's needs."
(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1231/breaking27.htm)

Borrowing for day to day spending is a bad road to go down especially since they don’t have a plan to get us out of this mess it be like the late 80s again borrowing to pay the interest on our debts. Get some ‘Liathroidi’ Cowen and cut the public sector

The EU will probably intervene before then but who knows this has not happened to an EU state yet. We can not wait for when Cowen decides to have a general election we need one now.

Anybody got any proposals of how change our government?

I have checked the constitution and it does not give any solutions only that it be treason to use violent force (Article 39)

(http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf)

Darragh29

AssertiveAction wrote: »

Anybody got any proposals of how change our government?

I think a multi pronged campaign, run nationwide, would be a good start. I was going to set up a website called www.change.ie to be a focal point for such a campaign, only I found that the doman name was already owned by another government quango.

I think in order to pick up the Tug O' War rope against Fianna Fail in a credible manner, we have some questions that we need to ask of ourselves...

(1) Firstly, before we start, what are our opposition at??? Give us a credible alternative for a Taoiseacht and give us a credible cabinet. We want to get rid of these APES that are supposidely running our country, but bad and all as things are, we don't want to go from the frying pan into the fire, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us a decent person with vision, honour, leadership ability and a sense of humility and self sacrifice, who can relate to the people of this country and get us positively motivated again, so we can put our shoulder to the wheel and start the graft that is required to put our country back to where it should be, which is low unemployment, modest growth and housing that is automatically affordable by virtue of the market being stable.

I think once we can get this matter resolved, we can start looking at how can we campaign effectively to get a general election.

What I'm afraid will happen, is instead of a general election, we'll get (another) leadership change within FF, with a brass knocker on a barn door type solution...

HydeRoad

People have become less and less politicised over the past quarter century. Hand in hand with individual wealth and wellbeing, and the eradication of real poverty, comes a general social apathy towards politics and the greater good. Witness the low turnout at any of the recent elections and referenda.

Perhaps the extraordinary circumstances we witness now will be the beginning of a new passion for political action.

There is a whole sector of society out there, who do not vote for Fianna Fáil, but who distrust the opposition too, and whose only contribution is not to vote at all. This of course, plays right into the hands of the two most destructive elements in this country, the Fianna Fáil party, and the Sinn Féin party. I greatly fear that the present crumbling coalition between FF and it's pathetic and unprincipled government partners, will be replaced by an unholy and repugnant coalition between FF and a band of even more morally questionable people, in Sinn Féin.

I believe there IS a market for a 'change,' but whoever would be the driving force of that change would have to be some kind of radically motivational genius, not just to take votes from FF, but to get the disillusioned masses to come out and vote at all, particularly disaffected youth.

I have never been bothered to get involved in politics, an occupation I have much distrust for, apart from religiously voting at every election. I have to say now, appalled as I am with the wantonly more corrupt behaviour of Fianna Fáil year upon year, that I would willingly join, support, and work for any new organisation that raised it's head for something better and more meaningful.

Bob the Builder

shqipshume wrote: »

And thats why i cried when Ireland voted them back in
Been saying years they needed to be gone after first term

Maybe not the first term. But certainly the second term. There was high morale in FF right up until well through the middle of the second term.

AKK wrote: »

+1

Remember when blessed Bertie left office early last year (you know, after a month of curtain calls and parades). What did he reveal to be his biggest regret during his time in office? Not getting the 'Bertie Bowl' monument to his ego built. Yup. 'Nuff said.

Yes.

Also, distributing 26,000 copies of a book to primary schools about Eamon de Valera was one to create an ego of propaganda. They just wanted increased salaries and ego massages for themselves. I found the Bertie Bowl to be a disgraceful ego stunt tbh.

jmayo wrote: »

I call BS...
What a great contribution, did you get that gem from a FF press cutting or the local cumman newsletter ?
Maybe you will tell us, why then we were the first country in recession, why our revenue shortfall for this year and next is so big ?
Pray tell us why our economy, and government spending, was built on the shaky foundations of a non sustainable industry i.e. construction.
Can you also tell yus why governmnet spending increased so much over the last 10/11 years. It is not as if the services have increased dramtically now is it :rolleyes:

BTW did santa come this Christmas and are the fairies still at the end of the garden :rolleyes:
You do seem to believe in fairytales, especially the fairytales spun by the fianna failures PR machine.
Let me guess you will vote for ff at the next election just like at all the other ones.

The FF PR Machine - what a crock of bullshít and people still fall for it to this day. Charles Haughey and Albert Lynch began it, and everyone just licked up to it.

HydeRoad wrote: »

People have become less and less politicised over the past quarter century. Hand in hand with individual wealth and wellbeing, and the eradication of real poverty, comes a general social apathy towards politics and the greater good. Witness the low turnout at any of the recent elections and referenda.

There are nearly 300,000 adults with young families in this country who admit that they struggle to meet medical bills, school expenses and are living on the breadline - just that you never hear about them.

Perhaps the extraordinary circumstances we witness now will be the beginning of a new passion for political action.

I agree. It may encourage people to think a lot more about who their voting for.

I believe there IS a market for a 'change,' but whoever would be the driving force of that change would have to be some kind of radically motivational genius, not just to take votes from FF, but to get the disillusioned masses to come out and vote at all, particularly disaffected youth.

imo;
Eamonn Gilmore - Taoiseach
Enda Kenny - tainiste
Bruton - Finance
Varadkar - Public Service
O'Reilly - Health
Hayes - Education

I'd be happy to explain if requested to.



It's all about putting the right people in charge of the right departments. Why the fúck would you put a qualified barrister who's almost new to politics as Minister for finance... He wasn't even a good minister for children ffs. And then Cowen got rid of Hannifan because he didn't like her. I know she was useless anyway tho.