Gazza Documentary

Melion

Monday Night, Channel 4, 10pm.

Like him or not, nobody can deny the mans talent. IMO the greatest English footballer ever. An absolute genius and just shows what can happen when you make a few bad decisions in life.

Im currently reading his autobiography so im looking forward to seeing this.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Monday Night, Channel 4, 10pm.

Like him or not, nobody can deny the mans talent. IMO the greatest English footballer ever. An absolute genius and just shows what can happen when you make a few bad decisions in life.

Im currently reading his autobiography so im looking forward to seeing this.

LOL

mike65

I'd sooner watch a Gaza doc to be honest (and would be grim enough)

Melion

rarnes1 wrote: »

LOL

???

Eirebear

rarnes1 wrote: »

LOL

Are you suggesting that he wasnt a Genius as a football player?

lol yerself.

Charlie

Melion wrote: »

Monday Night, Channel 4, 10pm.

Like him or not, nobody can deny the mans talent. IMO the greatest English footballer ever. An absolute genius and just shows what can happen when you make a few bad decisions in life.

Im currently reading his autobiography so im looking forward to seeing this.

Probably my favourite player when I was growing up. A footballer who just loved to play. Didn't care about the money, birds, sponsorship etc. just loved to be on the pitch plying his craft, and tbh, it's that passion that has been one of his demons ever since.

I read his book about 2 yrs ago, and at times, I struggled to get through it. Truly heartbreaking stuff, particulalry his childhood.

There's a lot of people (hangers on/family members/C-list Celebs) who have alot to answer for regarding the present state of Gazza. People took serious advantage of his generosity and good nature, people who have long since abandoned him when he needs help the most.

I will watch this documentary, but from what I heard, it's a stitch up job. I know Gazza is far from a saint, but in his present fragile condition, the last thing he needs is his wife going on national television and laying it in on him. Fro what I heard, his 12 yr old son is filmed saying that he just wishes his dad would disappear from his life. FFS, who does that help, and how is that responsible TV having an impressionable child say that.

TBH, I prefer to remember Gazza as the man shown in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYznwDXjBSY

Thanx 4 The Fish

How many english footballers have ye seen ? There were people on that england team with him who were better than he.

Eirebear

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Ho many english footballers have you seen ? There were people on that england team with him who were better than he.

I dont believe there was one who could produce that single moment of magic that Gazza could.

The man was a magician with the ball at his feet.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Le tissier could produce that when he wanted, does that mean he was better ? Hoddle could and often did I could go on...

Eirebear

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Le tissier could produce that when he wanted, does that mean he was better ? Hoddle could and often did I could go on...

I dont think ive ever seen le tiss beat 4 players, or hoddle head straight through a team into the penalty area the way Gazza did, but never mind...you have your opinion ill have mine.

Charlie

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Le tissier could produce that when he wanted, does that mean he was better ? Hoddle could and often did I could go on...

Gazza didn't play with Hod in the national team. As for Le Tiss, as good as he was, he was a lazy bastid. Gazza would run his heart out till he collapsed.

Seriously, Gazza>>>>>>>>>>Le Tiss any day.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Eirebear wrote: »

I dont think ive ever seen le tiss beat 4 players, or hoddle head straight through a team into the penalty area the way Gazza did, but never mind...you have your opinion ill have mine.

Does that mean Owen was better then ? He has done that time and again, and against better players.

Anyway, as you say, opinions are just that and we are each entitled to our own.

Pigman II

Eirebear wrote: »

Are you suggesting that he wasnt a Genius as a football player?

Nobody is denying that. His footballing IQ was measured as 175 by MENSA.

Pity his blood was frequently measured +0.08% and his wifes skin frequently measured as purple.

Brian Capture

Hoddle made a mistake not bringing him to France in 1998.

If he was on the team they would have won the World Cup.

Charlie

Brian Capture wrote: »

Hoddle made a mistake not bringing him to France in 1998.

If he was on the team they would have won the World Cup.

I don't know I would go that far, knock out competitions are impossible to predict, but he definitely should have been included in the squad. He still had alot to offer then, and certainly would have been a great option to bring on for the last 30 of a game.

Hoddle was a bit of an ego maniac, and I believe Gazza's exclusion was as much to do with Hoddle showing he was boss (similar to McClaren and Becks) as it was a footballing decision.

Beerlao

nah they still would've gone out in penalties in 98 anyway, maybe in the final though

Jazzy

pretty much the best natural english footballer since charlton. the man is an idiot, an unexpected idiot. thats wat made him amazing, he was so damn talented and knew he was but also so inconceivable at the same time. watch the video that charlie put up, proves it all imo. hes like le tissier but times 100. him and george best are the two biggest shames in british football, both could have been di stefano's, zidanes, figo's, zico's... instead the press got to them, they were too stupid to realise that they were footballers and nothing else. my mate down the road still has the gazza boardgame. wasted talent, simple as

Theres no doubting the man had natural talent but some of the comments on here are ludicrous.

Have a look at his career stats:

He never played 100 games for any club he played for.
His career honours are pretty poor, 1 FA Cup a couple of leagues and cups with rangers.

The english tabloid media built him up as a superstar and are now enjoying kicking him when he is at his lowest. Unfortunately, a lot of our tabloids are english owned and we have to read all that sh1te.

The only thing he has in common with George Best is his love of the sauce. Best won the top prizes in club football and played with the best team in Europe at his peak. (btw I'm as far from a United fan as you can get)

Hopefully he sorts himself out but he looks beyond help imo

Charlie

rarnes1 wrote: »

His career honours are pretty poor, 1 FA Cup a couple of leagues and cups with rangers.

The only thing he has in common with George Best is his love of the sauce. Best won the top prizes in club football and played with the best team in Europe at his peak. (btw I'm as far from a United fan as you can get)

Hopefully he sorts himself out but he looks beyond help imo

Thing is, he could have won top honours. Fergie has gone on record saying he tried to sign Gazza, and in Gazza's own book, he says the reason he turned United down for Spurs, was because Spurs offered to buy his parents and siblings a house.

This is what I was getting at. Gazza choose Spurs purely on the basis of what they would do for his family. He disregarded his own interests. His family really should have told him to go to United, better his career, and win something, rather than allow him to furnish their own needs.

Gazza has some very deep underlying mental health problems, that no manager could cure, but I honestly think his life would have been much more stable had he choose United, and had Fergie watching him.

charlie mchugh

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Thing is, he could have won top honours. Fergie has gone on record saying he tried to sign Gazza, and in Gazza's own book, he says the reason he turned United down for Spurs, was because Spurs offered to buy his parents and siblings a house.

This is what I was getting at. Gazza choose Spurs purely on the basis of what they would do for his family. He disregarded his own interests. His family really should have told him to go to United, better his career, and win something, rather than allow him to furnish their own needs.

Gazza has some very deep underlying mental health problems, that no manager could cure, but I honestly think his life would have been much more stable had he choose United, and had Fergie watching him.

He could have won top honours but did'nt. There are probably hundreds of footballers that are saying that every day.

I'm not sure would Fergie have put up with Gazza for too long tbh.

He famously split up the United drinking club of Robson/Whiteside/Mc Grath. Big Paul was the man to miss the boat and Fergie got rid of him.

Much has been made of Fergies handling of ryan Giggs partying ways but theres a big difference. Giggs is'nt an alcoholic, never mind a chronic one with mental health issues as Mc Grath and Gazza have.

Gazza was always destined to fall of the rails. His career was littered with injuries but his healing time after injuries was always severely lengthened as he used to go on massive sessions while he was supposed to be recouperating and getting his fitness back. He must have a managers nightmare !

OPENROAD

rarnes1 wrote: »

Unfortunately, a lot of our tabloids are english owned and we have to read all that sh1te.

Charlie

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have you not had Uncle Rupert round to yours yet, holding a gun to your head whilst you read The Sun?

OPENROAD

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Have you not had Uncle Rupert round to yours yet, holding a gun to your head whilst you read The Sun?

I have a strong front door

stovelid

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Hoddle could and often did I could go on...

Am also surprised how quickly creative players like Hoddle (albeit a bit before), Waddle and Beardsley are relatively forgotten from that generation because of the memory of Gazza. I think Gazza was a huge talent though; the other three were good pros, but PG possibly never fully exploited his talent, so the arguments will always remain.

poindexter

a nice free kick in an FA Cup Semi

a high profile move to Serie A which was all the more comical due to him tryin to scythe an opposition player down in an FA Cup Final

crying due to suspension from a major final(pure selfishness IMO, Keane knew he was suspended from the CL Final in 1999 and played the game of his life in the Semi to get his team to that final)

beautifully taken goal v scotland in euro 96.


these aside, what has he done in his career to merit such high praise. the english media built him up to be something outstanding when in reality he was never going to be a Best/Cruyff/Maradona

The_B_Man

Will Stephen Ireland be our Gazza?

OPENROAD

The_B_Man wrote: »

Will Stephen Ireland be our Gazza?

doubt it Gazza played in the World cup and European championships.

The_B_Man

ye and he made jimmy 5 bellies bald, not himself!

_blank_

My Dad said Gazza is one of the best footballers he's ever seen, and my dad isn't one for superlatives.

poindexter

Des wrote: »

My Dad said Gazza is one of the best footballers he's ever seen, and my dad isn't one for superlatives.

:rolleyes:

_blank_

poindexter wrote: »

:rolleyes:

what?

my dad doesn't use boards, but if you want, I'll get him to sign up, post fifty times around the place, then apply for access here.

Just so he can post his opinion on Gazza.

stovelid

poindexter wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Socratic denunciation of the Gazza yay-sayers there, mate.

We can reduce any player's talent down to a sequence of cameos, like Gazza. The guy was a serious talent, even if he didn't respect himself or the talent.

ShriekingSheet

The power and pace he shows on the ball in that video is unreal. Not what I expected/remember of him. He doesn't appear to be in all that great shape but he really does travel. Bellamy-esque.

I don't agree that he's the best english player ever or anything like it. For me, he'd be behind the likes of Shearer, Hoddle, Barnes (and that's purely taking my own first hand memory) but yeah, he's up there somewhere alright.

What I would agree with is that he's top of the pile for players I'd pay money to watch, imagination, skill and entertainment-wise, he might only be second to Best or someone like that. When you couple that with how (tragically) interesting his rise and fall was, he'll be remembered longer and more readily than pretty much all his contemporaries I'd imagine.

There's a clip of him somewhere playing for Rangers with the ball at his feet and an opposing player approaching, about to put his foot powerfully throught the ball. Gazza taps it with is toe and stands back, the defender kicks fresh air - looks like he tears his groin in the process... Nearly wet myself when I saw it.

poindexter

Des wrote: »

what?

my dad doesn't use boards, but if you want, I'll get him to sign up, post fifty times around the place, then apply for access here.

Just so he can post his opinion on Gazza.

if you wanna do that then go ahead, just so he can stand over his claim that Gazza is one of the best players he has ever seen while not using superlatives. it's all about opinions and am sure many would agree with ur Dad without any hesitation. personally i think the best players win the best trophies, if not with their clubs then with their countries. Gazza won, i think, an FA Cup and some leagues and cups in scotland during rangers 9iar run, outwith that what did he do? George Best threw it all away too, but during his career he helped his club win the European Cup which Gazza never got anywhere near. his legacy will be crying during a semi final in a major tournament, coz he was suspended from the final had his team got through. never a model pro and he may have had skill by the bucket load, he still had a long way to go IMO

Melion

poindexter wrote: »

if you wanna do that then go ahead, just so he can stand over his claim that Gazza is one of the best players he has ever seen while not using superlatives. it's all about opinions and am sure many would agree with ur Dad without any hesitation. personally i think the best players win the best trophies, if not with their clubs then with their countries. Gazza won, i think, an FA Cup and some leagues and cups in scotland during rangers 9iar run, outwith that what did he do? George Best threw it all away too, but during his career he helped his club win the European Cup which Gazza never got anywhere near. his legacy will be crying during a semi final in a major tournament, coz he was suspended from the final had his team got through. never a model pro and he may have had skill by the bucket load, he still had a long way to go IMO

So John O'Shea by your reckoning is a better player than Gazza was.

_blank_

poindexter wrote: »

if you wanna do that then go ahead, just so he can stand over his claim that Gazza is one of the best players he has ever seen while not using superlatives. it's all about opinions and am sure many would agree with ur Dad without any hesitation. personally i think the best players win the best trophies, if not with their clubs then with their countries. Gazza won, i think, an FA Cup and some leagues and cups in scotland during rangers 9iar run, outwith that what did he do? George Best threw it all away too, but during his career he helped his club win the European Cup which Gazza never got anywhere near. his legacy will be crying during a semi final in a major tournament, coz he was suspended from the final had his team got through. never a model pro and he may have had skill by the bucket load, he still had a long way to go IMO

fair enough, but isn't explaining a point much better than using the aul roll eyes thing

poindexter

Melion wrote: »

So John O'Shea by your reckoning is a better player than Gazza was.

what did Gazza do to merit being held in such high esteem? am not denying he had talent to burn, but where did he go with it?? John O'Shea, do you think he would cry on the park due to being suspended from a big game, or would he get on with the job at hand for his team. he is nowhere near the talent that Gazza is, but i don't doubt for a minute he would fight for the team and not think of himself at such a crucial time in the game

_blank_

poindexter wrote: »

what did Gazza do to merit being held in such high esteem? am not denying he had talent to burn, but where did he go with it?? John O'Shea, do you think he would cry on the park due to being suspended from a big game, or would he get on with the job at hand for his team. he is nowhere near the talent that Gazza is, but i don't doubt for a minute he would fight for the team and not think of himself at such a crucial time in the game

John O'Shea obviously isn't as mentally unstable as Gazza.

ShriekingSheet

Melion wrote: »

So John O'Shea by your reckoning is a better player than Gazza was.

Agreed - I think it's a crummy point to make, that X player won xxx trophies and therefore is the better player.
But by the same token, it's frustrating when people are clearly influenced by entertainment value, fame, media spotlight etc when discussing great players.

Gazza was a great player but didn't contribute what others of his own generation did to their team's success, let alone players from the past and since.

Look at Schmeicel (sp?) or Shearer. Awesome contributions. Better players than Gazza. But do I want to see a documentary on them? Hell no! If they were doing an interview in my back garden I'd close the curtains and call the police.

Conversely, I'll watch every minute of the Gazza story tonight. It doesn't mean he's a better footballer.

poindexter

Des wrote: »

John O'Shea obviously isn't as mentally unstable as Gazza.

I didn't bring John O'Shea into this, and you're right, he isn't as mentally unstable. suppose it can be said that there is a thin line between madness and genius, and mabye the wind blew him over the edge.

UnitedIrishman

From the short time I seen Gazza play he was a superb talent. Missed his performances around 90' because I was only out of the womb but even in 96' he looked some talent. That goal against Scotland in the Euro's was a superb goal and just showed an ounce of the talent he had.

It's just a pity he has some problems in that head of his. Read his autobiography and you'll see just exactly the extent of them from depression to OCD and beyond.

Eirebear

Unfortunately Gazzas problems will always overshadow his skills on the pitch.

I watched him first hand when he played at Ibrox, and he will always be remembered as one of the best players ever to play for us, no matter what comes.

stovelid

poindexter wrote: »

George Best threw it all away too, but during his career he helped his club win the European Cup which Gazza never got anywhere near.

If PG was playing at a huge club, in Europe, with players of the standard of Bobby Charlton and Denis Law, who knows?

PG was an integral part of the England team(s) that were a whisker away from appearing in a World Cup and Euro final. Obviously, this is all what-iffery, but PG definitely had the talent, but was just cursed with mental instability, poor career choices, and atrocious man-management.

Melion

poindexter wrote: »

what did Gazza do to merit being held in such high esteem? am not denying he had talent to burn, but where did he go with it?? John O'Shea, do you think he would cry on the park due to being suspended from a big game, or would he get on with the job at hand for his team. he is nowhere near the talent that Gazza is, but i don't doubt for a minute he would fight for the team and not think of himself at such a crucial time in the game

When will John O'Shea ever know what it feels like to be suspended for a World Cup final?

poindexter

Melion wrote: »

When will John O'Shea ever know what it feels like to be suspended for a World Cup final?

like i said above, i never brought John O'Shea into this thread and to have both in the same sentence makes no sense at all. maybe check back to see who did bring O'Shea into it

therecklessone

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Thing is, he could have won top honours. Fergie has gone on record saying he tried to sign Gazza, and in Gazza's own book, he says the reason he turned United down for Spurs, was because Spurs offered to buy his parents and siblings a house.

This is what I was getting at. Gazza choose Spurs purely on the basis of what they would do for his family. He disregarded his own interests. His family really should have told him to go to United, better his career, and win something, rather than allow him to furnish their own needs.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In his first two seasons at Spurs Gascoigne starred in a side that finished 6th and 3rd, while United were in 11th and 13th places. His 3rd and last season saw him win an FA Cup medal after dragging Spurs to the final after our form had slumped in the new year. That was the only season that United finished above Spurs in the league while Gascoigne was in London. That summer Spurs almost went to the wall after years of financial mismanagement by Irving Scholar, and he was sold to Lazio (though the deal was delayed by the broken leg picked up in the Cup final)

I've no doubt that had Gascoigne signed for United and Ferguson has managed to protect him from his "mates" and perhaps more crucially himself, then he would have won many more honours in his career. I do have my doubts that Ferguson would have managed to do that, given Paul's history of depression and mental illness, and the hangers on that helped drag him down. I'd echo the sentiment expressed below re. SAF:

rarnes1 wrote:

He famously split up the United drinking club of Robson/Whiteside/Mc Grath. Big Paul was the man to miss the boat and Fergie got rid of him.

Much has been made of Fergies handling of ryan Giggs partying ways but theres a big difference. Giggs is'nt an alcoholic, never mind a chronic one with mental health issues as Mc Grath and Gazza have.

I'd also add that Fergie was less successful keeping Lee Sharpe on the straight and narrow.

I think people are allowing personal bias to colour their judgement of Gascoigne's ability. Honours or not, he was the most naturally talented English footballer I have ever had the pleasure to watch. That he allowed that talent go to waste is undoubtedly true, but does nothing to detract from his ability IMO.

_blank_

my dad (:rolleyes:) just told me that Jack Charlton, when he found out how PG was spending his wages, stopped paying him, and had him on an allowance, putting his actual wages into some kind of trust fund.

Des

Des wrote: »

my dad (:rolleyes:) just told me that Jack Charlton, when he found out how PG was spending his wages, stopped paying him, and had him on an allowance, putting his actual wages into some kind of trust fund.

Hi to your Dad Des, heres mine(:cool:)

Melion

poindexter wrote: »

like i said above, i never brought John O'Shea into this thread and to have both in the same sentence makes no sense at all. maybe check back to see who did bring O'Shea into it

Yes i brought him into it, mainly because he's the worst player i can think of with such a haul of medals. You said Gazza couldnt be regarded as a great because he didnt win trophies. Trophies don't always show how good a player is/was. 2 of Englands best ever strikers (Shearer and Fowler) have a total of about 7 winners medals between them

Charlie

Shearer, possibly England's finest striker of the last 50 yrs, has a grand total of one medal to his name.

This whole lark about trophies exclusively being a sign of greatness is a load of bull.

Melion

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Shearer, possibly England's finest striker of the last 50 yrs, has a grand total of one medal to his name.

This whole lark about trophies exclusively being a sign of greatness is a load of bull.

Yeah and Fowler has 5 or 6(mainly due to winning 3/4 in 2001)