Feature tables at ipc and other events

Flushdraw

cooker3 wrote: »

I am pretty certain a lot of it is Pokerevents. 2 years ago at the IPC, there was no sponsor and no tv coverage. They still had a feature table which was blatantly rigged with top players such as Ram, Barney boatman, Padraig and around 4 others well known players(can't remember their names off hand). I think flushdraw may have been on it.

So they have history of doing this.

Yeah that table was rigged. The tickets were handed to you when you arrived rather than you being allowed to select your own. I was standing beside Daithio and he was handed table Derry. Within 2 minutes he was back asking to be moved table or else he wanted a refund.

Nothing to do with his ability, but it was hand picked and for an event of such a buyin, putting all the "stars" on one table is out of order.

I randomly drew the feature table when my table broke after about an hour but i'm not so sure that every person who joined that table from then on was a randomer!

strewelpeter

Flushdraw wrote: »

I randomly drew the feature table when my table broke after about an hour

No way was that random, You were dropped in there to try to make Barney appear good looking

karlh

Fatboydim wrote: »

Because there were no stars back then. Part and parcel of poker being popular.
I'll raise these issues with some of the people concerned. Karl H would be a good person to ask how it was done. However what I would say is that it's probably not down to Pokerevents - But more down to the Broadcaster [RTE] Production Company [Winmedia- I think] and Sponsors [Party Poker]

If I get any answers I'll post them up.

I only picked a couple of entire tables in later stages of the tournament for the TV but I know it was openly admitted that the TV table was 'seeded' early on. This was mainly to satisfy pros like Devilfish, Kenna James etc. who only agreed to play if they were guaranteed tv time. It was expressly stated in the tournament rules - brochures etc.

I'm not a big fan of hand-picking tables myself but there's no way such a quality field would turn out without it - and without the quality field to back up the tv, a major sponsor would run a mile.

It's a bit easier with the Irish Open with a huge list of big names where we can just pick an interesting table and replace it from a long list of others.

Ollieboy

If the TV companies want the stars on the TV table and the promotors wants the sponsorship money, than the players have to be compensate for this and money added to the prize pool, otherwise this is a joke.

People work hard for the entry fee and any breaking of the rules should allow a player to get a refund if he or she wants.

But, I'm glad to see the stars up on the feature table, it means more fish in the pond and less sharks, so its not a bad thing for the average player, but it would be nice to see some money given back to the players in added prize money

carfax

Flushdraw wrote: »

Yeah that table was rigged. The tickets were handed to you when you arrived rather than you being allowed to select your own. I was standing beside Daithio and he was handed table Derry. Within 2 minutes he was back asking to be moved table or else he wanted a refund.

Nothing to do with his ability, but it was hand picked and for an event of such a buyin, putting all the "stars" on one table is out of order.

I randomly drew the feature table when my table broke after about an hour but i'm not so sure that every person who joined that table from then on was a randomer!

How do you not remember that it was me who moved you to that table :eek::D, because you were next to be the big blind...I had been told earlier that it was only big name players were to be moved to that table so it made complete sense to get you up there to stack the so called "pro's" which you did nicely.

^^^^^^
Agree with Ollie's post above 100%.

Fatboydim

What Karl, Ollie and Stephen said ... I wholeheartedly agree.

Personally I couldn't care less about TV tables until the business end of a tournament. I've never been hankering to get on one as for the most part it's -EV. Mind you me sitting at any poker table is -EV at the moment.

As always it's a bit of give and take - If they used the same tables as on the WSOP it might be possible to move the tables more often I suppose.

Party Poker should have added some money to the event.

They did to the tour of course - But maybe that was all that was in the fund.

Thanks for answering Karl.

It was expressly stated in the tournament rules - brochures etc.

So we can't really complain if it was in black and white.

I'm not sure there's an easy solution to this given what Karl has said. But any good suggestions people might have [and there have been some already] I'll pass on.

nicnicnic

I was happy to go on one of the starting tv tables. Although I knew I would definitely lose a little ev because of a very difficult starting table, I felt that I owed it to my sponsors to attain tv time if possible.

The ethics of cherry picking the starting tables is debatable but are there any real losers because of the system. Its a subjective choice for the individuals choose and the general field is easier because of the bunching of recognised players.

Brayruit

nicnicnic wrote: »

The ethics of cherry picking the starting tables is debatable but are there any real losers because of the system. Its a subjective choice for the individuals choose and the general field is easier because of the bunching of recognised players.

+1

RoundTower

nicnicnic wrote: »

The ethics of cherry picking the starting tables is debatable but are there any real losers because of the system. Its a subjective choice for the individuals choose and the general field is easier because of the bunching of recognised players.

what about the guy above who was a fish with a big stack being brought to the feature table? It wasn't good for him.

nicnicnic

RoundTower wrote: »

what about the guy above who was a fish with a big stack being brought to the feature table? It wasn't good for him.

I think he went on to win the tournament:)

dagunman

karlh post is v gud and i suppose its sumtin wil hav to live with. Its fair enuf that if you dont wanna go on the table you dont hav to and player were told in advance.
Aldo what happened in kilarney and I assume by the silence of Neil Kelly who is never shy to post, that what he did in Kilarney was cheating.
He had the ability to seriously alter the outcome of the tournament and he excercised it.

mdwexford

The World Series and The Irish Open dont pick their feature tables this way, dont know about the EPT.

As Ste has said, do a random seating draw and make the most interesting table the feature table, theres always going to be at least one table loaded with "celeb" players.

A never ending stream of big names getting plucked for the feature table at random compromises the integrity of the tournament imo.

mickc

what happened to big slicks reply?

RoundTower

no, the World Series is not the same and you should know better than to make up lies like this as many people here have played in WSOP events.

and in the Clonmel thread you said this would be changing and you would have a random draw "as normal in Big Slick Events" . So which is it? Is this a lie too?

What happens if the tournament gets down to two players and one of your mates is still in it and there are also a couple of big fish with big stacks? Which table do you put your mate on?

I for one will not be playing in Big Slick events if they are run like this.

RoundTower

mickc wrote: »

what happened to big slicks reply?

he deleted it apparently

It said, and I paraphrase "the WSOP do this too so why not? Sorry to all of you chumps but we will continue to manipulate the seat draw at our events because the sponsors like it that way. If you don't like it, dagunman, just don't play."

BIG-SLICK-POKER

dagunman wrote: »

karlh post is v gud and i suppose its sumtin wil hav to live with. Its fair enuf that if you dont wanna go on the table you dont hav to and player were told in advance.
Aldo what happened in kilarney and I assume by the silence of Neil Kelly who is never shy to post, that what he did in Kilarney was cheating.
He had the ability to seriously alter the outcome of the tournament and he excercised it.

Seat draw was Random what more do u need me to post John?

I picked next big blinds to the feature tables and thats really it?If i moved a player from out of postion it was a mistake and i do not recollect doing so. If i did i will apologise

Your wording of calling me a cheat is not a nice statement john and im suprised at that u would put in on boards that i would alter the outcome of a tournament . 832 runners were in the field and to think u cam alter the field to make someone win with over 100,000 hands to be played is ridiculous .


I did bring Marty up on the next Bb when it was there and Ken doherty but apart from that that was it of players who were known and this was the next bb at there table .. the players were moved by floor people randomly after that but i did move Marty and Ken to teh feature table when they were on the BB as was within the rules ..

What do u propose we do with Tv table and Feature tables in teh future ?

Should it be totally random with no players on the table of note ?

If so we will not get the Tv coverage as it will not be of value to the netwroks and thats being honest,

For u to call me a cheat is a serious word John and u should think b4 speakin as thts a fairly serious allegation u a re making there ..


Neill K

strewelpeter

BIG-SLICK-POKER wrote: »

Seat draw was Random what more do u need me to post...

... but i did move Marty and Ken to teh feature table when they were on the BB ...

Should it be totally random with no players on the table of note ?

WTF

BIG-SLICK-POKER

RoundTower wrote: »

he deleted it apparently

It said, and I paraphrase "the WSOP do this too so why not? Sorry to all of you chumps but we will continue to manipulate the seat draw at our events because the sponsors like it that way. If you don't like it, dagunman, just don't play."

Hi Dave ,


1 . Did not call anyone a chump
2. I will state it again if u have a problem with the way it is why play the option is there before the tournament not to play if u see a problem with the seat draw ?
3. Feature tables will always have known faces on the table after a while and i cant really avoid that. This event was 100% a random draw from the off .
4. If u have a better solution for the problems that arise from feature tables and sponsors wanting known players at the tables also Tv networks also wanting them let me know and ill bring it up at the pre event meeting for next year.
5. Not getting onto u by the way Dave im just in a situation that i cannot avoid at feature tabled events .

I would like to keep everyone happy but its hard with a field that big . In no way was i minipulating the event for someone to win and to state that is ridiculous imo.

Give me a better solution apart from always random for TV tables and ill look at it next year

Neill

BIG-SLICK-POKER

strewelpeter wrote: »

WTF

They were the next Bb at there table ? What more can i say? Or what do u want said?

This is the rule and this was abided by?

sickpuppy

? For big slick poker why did you remove your post where you said that you move players to feature tables?
You said as sponsor you gotta look out for number 1 but of course the players get fu ck all out of it.
Part of the lure of these big tournaments is to be drawn witha big player to pit yourself againest them pretty hard when there all stuffed on some feature table with few shills for hire and attention whores of the irish circuit snook in by there buddies.
I wont be playing any events where this practice is commonplace.

RoundTower

Neil I don't think you understand what is meant by random. Hand picking which player goes where is not random. Even if you only do it for a few people and even if you tell everyone in advance.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

sickpuppy wrote: »

? For big slick poker why did you remove your post where you said that you move players to feature tables?
You said as sponsor you gotta look out for number 1 but of course the players get fu ck all out of it.
Part of the lure of these big tournaments is to be drawn witha big player to pit yourself againest them pretty hard when there all stuffed on some feature table with few shills for hire and attention whores of the irish circuit snook in by there buddies.
I wont be playing any events where this practice is commonplace.

I agree the lure of playing with some big players is there at the tables . I am just asking the question apart from random draw what can be done about this . I would like to keep everyone happy but its hard to do so

Neill

RoundTower

BIG-SLICK-POKER wrote: »

4. If u have a better solution for the problems that arise from feature tables and sponsors wanting known players at the tables also Tv networks also wanting them let me know and ill bring it up at the pre event meeting for next year.

here's a possible solution

tell the networks and the sponsors to go and **** themselves if they want you to change the draw.

run a fair and transparent tournament. Take enough rake to pay for your costs and make a living.

If you can't do this, don't pretend you are doing it.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

RoundTower wrote: »

Neil I don't think you understand what is meant by random. Hand picking which player goes where is not random. Even if you only do it for a few people and even if you tell everyone in advance.

I know that Dave but with Feature tables i would rather not have them tbh as tehy always cause probs for organisers i am in a no wi situation as the big players are always going to be asked to go there . Its still within the rules as i move the next big blind.

I am being open here and honest and i cannot be any fairer then that. Marty and Ken where the only two named players i moved and this was they next BB .


If there is Tv covaerage next year what would u propose urself taking into account i would have a production company on my back i would reckon also with them trying to get Pro players at teh Tv table i would reckon.

Looking for players advice here not a slating as if i have to change it next year i have no problem .

bohsman

BIG-SLICK-POKER wrote: »

If there is Tv covaerage next year what would u propose urself taking into account i would have a production company on my back i would reckon also with them trying to get Pro players at teh Tv table i would reckon.

Looking for players advice here not a slating as if i have to change it next year i have no problem .

Pick a table to be feature after the draw has been done based on what player/s the sponsors want to see. If a more interesting table pops up make that the feature table.

connie147

dagunman wrote: »

karlh post is v gud and i suppose its sumtin wil hav to live with. Its fair enuf that if you dont wanna go on the table you dont hav to and player were told in advance.
Aldo what happened in kilarney and I assume by the silence of Neil Kelly who is never shy to post, that what he did in Kilarney was cheating.
He had the ability to seriously alter the outcome of the tournament and he excercised it.

Hi John,
As you know, I was involved in the Ladbrokes tournament in Killarney, and where-as my name isnt mentioned here, I'd like to make a couple of points.

The seating draw was completely random when players picked their seats when registering. We had 4 lines where people queued to register and to make life easier for the girls on registration, these queues were organised in alphabetical surnames eg: (A-H, J-O, P-S and T-Z). Every player had to register to get a seat and as the event was sold out, the girls at the desk just assigned seating cards to people as they regged. The girls at the desk had total control of the seating cards and gave them out in that way. I was in control of the queing system at the time of regging and at no stage was any player assingned a seat to any specific table. (The only exception I can think of is where a husband and wife (or maybe boyfriend/girlfriend ) were regging, we did ensure they werent given two seats at the same table. We did not assign players to the tables on the stage.

As for moving player when balancing tables, our agreement was to move players next in the BB as is usual. I was not aware of we deviating from that. I'm sure Neil will be able to answer that a bit better as he was TD for the tourney.

Every tourney I've ever run has had a completely random draw when seating players at the start of a tourney. The only place I differ from most other operators is that when I move the next BB to balance a table, I intentionally move him to the seat closest to the button rather than other operators who move them as near as they can to the BB. (my belief is the player should be compensated in some small way for moving them).



Connie

BIG-SLICK-POKER

RoundTower wrote: »

here's a possible solution

tell the networks and the sponsors to go and **** themselves if they want you to change the draw.

run a fair and transparent tournament. Take enough rake to pay for your costs and make a living.

If you can't do this, don't pretend you are doing it.

I will bring this up at the pre meeting for next year not in those words and try come to a happy median or solution and i will post on here about it . The first draw is totally random at large events but as in the irish open/Ipc/Ladbrokes etc u will always see Pros on teh feature table ..


Next year my solution is below


Neill

BIG-SLICK-POKER

• This is the only solution i can see to this prob and i think it will help me out as the Director and keep players and sponsors happy ...
  
• If agreed in 2009 i the draw will be 100% Random , I will move players randomly from the next BB from table to table Randomly .
  
• If Sponsors or Tv compnaies are on board we will rotate the whole feature table and move the named players whole table up to the feature therefore not affecting the game ..I think this is the way the irish open sorted the problem and we will do so also
  
• If i have caused a problem with the way this was done this year i will 100% rectify the matter next year ..
  
  
  This was the first year of featured tables for us and if any inconvience were caused in the tournamnent the book stops with me and i will listen and try do everything too help the game and the players and keep us all happy as i dont want this headache 4 months on
  

Neill K
Tournament Director
Ladbrokes Poker Fest

5starpool

BIG-SLICK-POKER wrote: »

I know that Dave but with Feature tables i would rather not have them tbh as tehy always cause probs for organisers i am in a no wi situation as the big players are always going to be asked to go there . Its still within the rules as i move the next big blind.

I am being open here and honest and i cannot be any fairer then that. Marty and Ken where the only two named players i moved and this was they next BB .


If there is Tv covaerage next year what would u propose urself taking into account i would have a production company on my back i would reckon also with them trying to get Pro players at teh Tv table i would reckon.

Looking for players advice here not a slating as if i have to change it next year i have no problem .

Not meaning to be smart here, but the tv coverage of the event showed practically no hands outside the final tabel (which was very brief as well. Was it not more like a documentary than anything? This being the case, why did the producers try to influence who was on a tv table that was never broadcast?

BIG-SLICK-POKER

bohsman wrote: »

Pick a table to be feature after the draw has been done based on what player/s the sponsors want to see. If a more interesting table pops up make that the feature table.

Lol great minds think alike oscar