BER Cert cost?

jimmmy

sydthebeat wrote: »

The BER will be 1 factor when someones decides to purchase / rent. If two similar dwellings are side by side in an estate, and ones a B rated while the other is a D, then the sale / rent price should be altered tor flect this.

No, not true, unless perhaps the two BER's were done by the same person on the same day and even then...
Most people do not even look at the rating on the cert...people do not have confidence in the system....a paper got different assessors to do a house recently and they came up with different ratings.

Slig

sydthebeat wrote: »

first point..
Yes, a more accurate BER leads to a better result. Where the actual data is not know then you HAVE TO default to the worst value.
For example.... if you see an oil tank and an external oil boiler in a 95 dated houses, but its locked and you didnt request a key to open it, the you have to default to the worst eficiency boiler of that age. In reality th eboiler might be a 2005 upgrade at 90% efficiency....

another example, if you make every effort to confirm what the construction make up is then you get a better result.. again, a 2001 dwelling assumes a wall u value of 0.55.... but if you can confrm 60mm PU board in wall then great!! better u value...

This pertains to every single piece of data to be collected.

Second point
Thats relative. The BER will be 1 factor when someones decides to purchase / rent. If two similar dwellings are side by side in an estate, and ones a B rated while the other is a D, then the sale / rent price should be altered tor flect this.

Third point...

what in gods name is a professional BER??
everyone who completed the course and registered with SEI can call themselves a profesional BER assessor.

If you read this post all the reasons are outlined. Price aside I think it pretty much sums up why you would want a good assessment done. When you take in the pricing you have to ask how somebody can do all of the above without making a loss on €100 fee.

jimmmy wrote: »

If people are spending a few hundred qiuid on a piece of paper - which they would not have had to spend money on or buy in the past - do you expect them not to shop around ? There is competition in everything nowadays.

sydthebeat

jimmmy wrote: »

No, not true, unless perhaps the two BER's were done by the same person on the same day and even then...
Most people do not even look at the rating on the cert...people do not have confidence in the system....a paper got different assessors to do a house recently and they came up with different ratings.

they did not publish the results to SEI therefore there was no quality check..

this was lazy sensationalist journalism...

if i brought my motor to 3 different garages and i simply said 'service that'.... i can guarantee you that i would end up with 3 different scope of works to be done....

you can check the cert to see the assessors number, so if you want to, you can check if the same assesssor did both....

jimmmy

sydthebeat wrote: »

this was lazy sensationalist journalism...

Shoot the messenger if you want.

As the ratings vary, people could not care what the certs say, its just abnother piece of beaurocracy. A few BER experts I know disagree on something like agreeing whats in a wall - if there is insulation there or not etc. What a waste.

sydthebeat

jimmmy wrote: »

Shoot the messenger if you want.

As the ratings vary, people could not care what the certs say, its just abnother piece of beaurocracy. A few BER experts I know disagree on something like agreeing whats in a wall - if there is insulation there or not etc. What a waste.

if they can verify whats in the wall fine... if not, they dont have to agree or disagree... the software makes that decision for you...

jimmmy, you should clarify that the points you make are your own opinion, unless youve been appointed spokesperson for everybody.....

jimmmy wrote: »

Most people do not even look at the rating on the cert...

people do not have confidence in the system.....

people could not care what the certs say.......

sinnerboy

power to "the people" :rolleyes:

jimmmy

sydthebeat wrote: »

if they can verify whats in the wall fine... if not, they dont have to agree or disagree... the software makes that decision for you........

lol you are right , "they dont have to agree or disagree". A house can have different ratings. How the hell can software make a decision on the construction of a wall / tell if there is insulation in that wall ? You must have some software lol

sydthebeat wrote: »

jimmmy, you should clarify that the points you make are your own opinion, unless youve been appointed spokesperson for everybody.....

Well sydthebeat the comments I make are my own, based on conversations I have had with many others, and from what I have seen and heard. I do not work in the construction industry so I have no axe to grind, unlike possibly some others. I do not think anyone is or could be "spokesperson for everybody".

Slig

Support your opinions with facts, figures or staitstics and nobody can argue with them. Posting your opinions as facts doesnt prove anything. There is no point in getting personal or wound up, this is only a discussion

sydthebeat

jimmmy wrote: »

How the hell can software make a decision on the construction of a wall / tell if there is insulation in that wall ? You must have some software
.

quite easily jimmmy.....

if the house was built in 1980, and there is no way to verify what is in the walls... the software assumes the wall has a standard u value for that time.... its not rocket science...

as ive said, the assessor do not have to agree or disagree.. they just need to verify or not... the better the assessor the better the attempt to verify....

if you do not know the methodology behind the assessment perhaps you should educate yourself before forming any opinion on it..... as they say, a little education is a dangerous thing.....

jimmmy

sydthebeat wrote: »

if the house was built in 1980, and there is no way to verify what is in the walls... the software assumes the wall has a standard u value for that time.... its not rocket science...

lol...so you guess whats in the wall...even though wall construction differed greatly in that era, just as in any other era, depending on the builder, spec, budget, priority given to insulation etc, shortcuts taken, etc

for your info, u values differed greatly at that time too

sydthebeat

jimmmy wrote: »

lol...so you guess whats in the wall...even though wall construction differed greatly in that era, just as in any other era, depending on the builder, spec, budget, priority given to insulation etc, shortcuts taken, etc

for your info, u values differed greatly at that time too

i know they do....

but as ive said... in order for the assessor to calculate the specific u value of the wall, they need to visually verify it..... we dont carry core drills around in our pockets.....

again, if you want to comment on the methodology, read up on it and learn about it....

topcatcbr

Syd why are you entertaining this. AFAIK Jimmmy is an auctioneer.

sydthebeat

i dont care what he is....

im just trying to show him that badmouthing a process he clearly knows nothing about shows a very high level of ignorance.

Public opinion can be formed from reading fora such as these so if an uneducated person such as this can go unchecked, it can be bad for an industry i work in. Its hard enough trying to explain to people the reason behind the process, without guys like this, who clearly knows very very little about whats hes commenting on, coming on here and spouting rubbish pub talk....

jimmy, go off and get educated about the BER system before you form an opinion on it....

muffler

topcatcbr wrote: »

Syd why are you entertaining this. AFAIK Jimmmy is an auctioneer.

Holy sweet mother of Jesus :eek:

muffler

Not that its important as such but just so as we are all on a level playing field can I ask you jimmmy what exactly is your profession?

No need to answer if you dont wish to.

No6

You have the right to remain Silent Jimmy!!!

smooth operater

topcatcbr wrote: »

Syd why are you entertaining this. AFAIK Jimmmy is an auctioneer.

muffler wrote: »

Holy sweet mother of Jesus :eek:

Lol

Jimmy, care to tell us what the variations in u-values were during that era?

brianmacl

sydthebeat wrote: »

Second point
Thats relative. The BER will be 1 factor when someones decides to purchase / rent. If two similar dwellings are side by side in an estate, and ones a B rated while the other is a D, then the sale / rent price should be altered tor flect this.

If you have hired a really poor estate agent, maybe one that uses a big blue white and red balloon as a logo, then the rating will make the difference. But a good EA should be able to take this system apart.

2 semi d's side by side one built a small extention that has a perspex roof, but they put in a radiator, the rating s terible (unless the heater is removed). The other semi has the same extention. Any EA worth his / her salt should be able to explain that.

second hand properties, tend to have had work carried out with out receipts, boilers were put in with no model type on them (ideal classic, there are about 80 of theses that range from about 90% -70% efficient and very few ways of working out which type you have).

The difference between a C and an E may be information or a badly placed radiator.

Further more, is this a bit of a case of another way of attracting people to new build properties instead of second hand.

sydthebeat

brianmacl wrote: »

If you have hired a really poor estate agent, maybe one that uses a big blue white and red balloon as a logo, then the rating will make the difference. But a good EA should be able to take this system apart.

2 semi d's side by side one built a small extention that has a perspex roof, but they put in a radiator, the rating s terible (unless the heater is removed). The other semi has the same extention. Any EA worth his / her salt should be able to explain that.

second hand properties, tend to have had work carried out with out receipts, boilers were put in with no model type on them (ideal classic, there are about 80 of theses that range from about 90% -70% efficient and very few ways of working out which type you have).

The difference between a C and an E may be information or a badly placed radiator.

Further more, is this a bit of a case of another way of attracting people to new build properties instead of second hand.

no.. its simple a means to provide a prospective purchaser / renter with as much information as they can get in order to make a decision...

its also an incentive of owners of older houses to upgrade to better than current regs, in order to make their dwellings as attractive from an energy conservation point of view as newer dweelings..

it cannot be denied that in the vast majority of cases, the older the dwelling, the worse the rating.... what your describing above is a result of this issue, not a cause!!!

oh, and as to what youve described about the agents, at least now you have a cert to proove the difference, and not something based on the (always truthful:rolleyes:) estate agent....

brianmacl

sydthebeat wrote: »

its also an incentive of owners of older houses to upgrade to better than current regs, in order to make their dwellings as attractive from an energy conservation point of view as newer dweelings..

not al EA are lyers...seriously you can sell stuff without telling lies.

what happens the poor home owner that did redo their house 5-6 years ago.. no receipts. this is not un common or the person who got their brother in law to do it ..... again no receipts.

what about those boilers that don't have model numbers and people don't have any any details on it... there is an inherint advantage to new properties over second hand ones.

Matt Simis

brianmacl wrote: »

not al EA are lyers...seriously you can sell stuff without telling lies.

what happens the poor home owner that did redo their house 5-6 years ago.. no receipts. this is not un common or the person who got their brother in law to do it ..... again no receipts.

what about those boilers that don't have model numbers and people don't have any any details on it... there is an inherint advantage to new properties over second hand ones.

If their brother in law is a qualified whatever or trading in some even semi-official manner he could put pen to paper and certify the job now. Likewise receipts arent the only valid proof and can be issued in retrospect. I dunno how plausable having zero details on an appliance fitted to your home is. If they are that cavalier and ignorant with regards their heating, maybe this would be an overdue wake up call. Regardless you list all the people with issues, what about those with well made houses and those that make responsible purchases, their conscientious should be highlighted to clients.

My last tenants moved out (3mths ago) as they thought the house was too expensive to heat. IMO, it isnt and if I had a BER Cert I could have shown them quantifiably where the house stands for heating and energy vs. its peers. I couldnt, so they left and now I have an empty house.

You Estate Agent scenario is flawed in the sense that if I was looking for somewhere to rent, I wouldnt even entertain the lower rated properties if there were higher rated dwellings in the same area. I certainly wouldnt go looking for the agent renting them to convince me otherwise. How naive do you take people for?

brianmacl

Matt Simis wrote: »

You Estate Agent scenario is flawed in the sense that if I was looking for somewhere to rent, I wouldnt even entertain the lower rated properties if there were higher rated dwellings in the same area. I certainly wouldnt go looking for the agent renting them to convince me otherwise. How naive do you take people for?

It is far from flawed and I don't think SEI are helping matters.

So the 3 bed semi with the poor energy rating because they stuck a radiator in the poor quality extention vrs the 3 bed semi 2 doors up that has the better rating.... easy sell.

That isn't naivity on part of the purchasers / tenants, that is common sense. if the radiator is switched off or rarely used then it not going to have a negative effect on the property but the rating is lower

I worked as an Estate Agent for about 6 years and know alot about properties I also know that people have a lot more common sense than DEAP gives them credit for.... water heating during the summer, most people will switch of their rads or turn down the thermostat so that the haeting only heats water but DEAP does not allow for this and suggests that people need to use suplementary energy to heat water during the summer.

Now seriously any Estate Agent worth their salt will be able to explain to a potential renter or buyer that this house received a poor grade because..... and really it shouldn't effect you in real life because.......

The EA will also use the fact that default values were used to show that really it is more of a rough guess.

Don't get me wrong, I think that BERs are a good thing and help educate people but I know there is alot of riggle room and I know that new properties are given an advantage. I know I don't have details on my boiler , I live in an 8 year old house with an ideal classic gas boiler and as I stated earlier there are about 80 of these listed in DEAP and they range in efficency. I checked with my neighbours and non of them have details on their boiler either, so yet again you use the default or the worst one available.

Now do you really think that a good estate agent couldn't talk 90% -95% of people arround, after all I sold properties in May of 2006 for 40% more than they were going for in January of 2006 and that wasn't a hard sell.

BTW I am no longer an Estate Agent.

Matt Simis

brianmacl wrote: »

It is far from flawed and I don't think SEI are helping matters.

So the 3 bed semi with the poor energy rating because they stuck a radiator in the poor quality extention vrs the 3 bed semi 2 doors up that has the better rating.... easy sell.

That isn't naivity on part of the purchasers / tenants, that is common sense. if the radiator is switched off or rarely used then it not going to have a negative effect on the property but the rating is lower

I worked as an Estate Agent for about 6 years and know alot about properties I also know that people have a lot more common sense than DEAP gives them credit for.... water heating during the summer, most people will switch of their rads or turn down the thermostat so that the haeting only heats water but DEAP does not allow for this and suggests that people need to use suplementary energy to heat water during the summer.

You may have had a lot of success when people were queuing at agents desperate looking for accommodation, but dont mistake that for a silver tongue. I completely stand by the suggestion that tenants simply will not go looking for reasons on why house A is several grades lower than House B, C and D, why would they?

Regarding your example of Water Heating in summer, its obvious you dont know how to use DEAP, it does it indeed take into account seasonaility efficiencies , temperature variations and allows the Water Heating to be heated separately to Rads if the Heating system features separate Radiator and DHW controls. If the Heating System doesnt allow that, then obviously its spec'ed as such in DEAP.

brianmacl

Matt Simis wrote: »

You may have had a lot of success when people were queuing at agents desperate looking for accommodation, but dont mistake that for a silver tongue. I completely stand by the suggestion that tenants simply will not go looking for reasons on why house A is several grades lower than House B, C and D, why would they?

Regarding your example of Water Heating in summer, its obvious you dont know how to use DEAP, it does it indeed take into account seasonaility efficiencies , temperature variations and allows the Water Heating to be heated separately to Rads if the Heating system features separate Radiator and DHW controls. If Heating System doesnt allow that, then obviously its spec'ed as such in DEAP.

I do know how to use DEAP and I have read the DEAP Manual.

What happens in several 10 year old houses is people use their central heating to heat the hot water. But durring the summerthey turn of the rads at the rad because they cannot be controled seperatley. DEAP does not take this into account.

I hit the highest price ever on three roads in mount merrion, 3 in D4 (including the most expensive house ever at that point) The most expensive in D2, D6 and most expensive mews ever. Along with some serious sites.

Silver tongue is exactly it. and I also sold when there were not queues.

The reason why people will be talked around to a home with a lower grade is because they like it but need to justify it to themselves.

Take for instance a new build B rated house vrs a 1950's house. THe 1950's house is nicer. in a more settled location but has a poor grade. the potential buyer / renter wants to take that place but wants to be talked into it so they can justify the poor rating.

So answer the one about the semi d's because that is a true one. the house with the poorer rating is currently renting for more and the tenants are happy to continue with the higher rent. other than the small extetion with the Rad in it there is no diff.

brianmacl

Matt Simis wrote: »

You Estate Agent scenario is flawed in the sense that if I was looking for somewhere to rent, I wouldnt even entertain the lower rated properties if there were higher rated dwellings in the same area. I certainly wouldnt go looking for the agent renting them to convince me otherwise. How naive do you take people for?

BTW Matt This is not about YOU this is about the average tenant or person who wants to buy a house. You are a landlord who's tenants moved out 3 months ago.... now tell me that you know all about property.:rolleyes:

jimmmy

sydthebeat wrote: »

but as ive said... in order for the assessor to calculate the specific u value of the wall, they need to visually verify it..... we dont carry core drills around in our pockets.........

lol Not only do you not carry core drills around in your pockets, you probably would not know what a drill was if you tripped on it while you were "calculating the specific u value of a wall, by visually verifying it" lol lol
Maybe your "software" tells you what is inside the wall lol

sydthebeat wrote: »

again, if you want to comment on the methodology, read up on it and learn about it....

I have done and the flaws in the system are there for everyone to see. I have no axe to grind, I am not a BER assessor, do not work in the construction industry and am certainly not an auctioneer....but I do know more than a bit about construction etc...more than the average BER assessor I would imagine.

sinnerboy

troll

sinnerboy

brianmacl wrote: »

water heating during the summer, most people will switch of their rads or turn down the thermostat so that the haeting only heats water but DEAP does not allow for this and suggests that people need to use suplementary energy to heat water during the summer.

You may be interested to refer to this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58698209&postcount=25

Sorry to hear you are no longer an EA .

Can you clarify something ? Do you believe newer houses have an advantage or not - your tale about the 1950's property seems not to support this

RKQ

I suspect there are thousands of extensions, under 23sqm, that were literally self built or built by "friends" for cash - absolutely no receipts. Its a tiny extension that no Builder wanted to build!

I think in our modern age with our well educated Professional, it should be easy to find insulation type or boiler model, without the lazy option of down grading the structure.

I have every receipt for my build, in a box somewhere. Its only 5 years ago but I'd have extreme difficulty finding those receipts.

I've seen lots of people DIY their homes, attic insulation, insulate & dryline etc. I know none of them have receipts 5 or 10 years later.

tomED

we're currently doing online marketing for a company offering BER assessment. It's getting so competitive out there now.

When we first put the ads on Google, we included the price of (from) €195, within an hour, there were others offering it for €180. So I guess the moral of the story is... SHOP AROUND!

They seem to be fighting like scavengers to get a piece of the pie.

I would say one thing though, if you want a proper rating, get someone who knows what they are doing, not just a fly by night. There seems to be a lot of cowboys out there that were able to become a registered assessor without much hassle.

It's all a complete scam anyway IMO.

sinnerboy

brianmacl wrote: »

So answer the one about the semi d's because that is a true one. the house with the poorer rating is currently renting for more and the tenants are happy to continue with the higher rent. other than the small extetion with the Rad in it there is no diff.

Was the extension a sun room/ conservatory Brian ? Does it "flow through" openly to the main house or is it separated by doors /wall

If so the owner should be advised ( which you may well have done - I'm sure ) to heat it separately to the main house . And use external quality doors to separate it . The BER rating would improve

sinnerboy

RKQ wrote: »

I think in our modern age with our well educated Professional, it should be easy to find insulation type or boiler model, without the lazy option of down grading the structure.

I have every receipt for my build, in a box somewhere. Its only 5 years ago but I'd have extreme difficulty finding those receipts.

Conflicted RKQ ?

jimmmy

tomED wrote: »

we're currently doing online marketing for a company offering BER assessment. It's getting so competitive out there now.

When we first put the ads on Google, we included the price of (from) €195, within an hour, there were others offering it for €180. So I guess the moral of the story is... SHOP AROUND!

They seem to be fighting like scavengers to get a piece of the pie.

I would say one thing though, if you want a proper rating, get someone who knows what they are doing, not just a fly by night. There seems to be a lot of cowboys out there that were able to become a registered assessor without much hassle.

It's all a complete scam anyway IMO.

True enough. When you have BER assessors thinking they can determine if a wall has insulation or not by "looking" at it lol One BER assessor I know never got his clothes dirty by checking the attic for insulation, and knows as much about construction as ....enough said.

RKQ

Not abit conflicting Sinnerboy!
I'll explain the points I made above. Keeping or having to find Receipts is crazy - IMO not many people would ask for receipts and if they did they loose them after a few months.

Imagine a 1980 single storey flat roof 3 x 4m extension. Brother did foundation, floor and blocks. Neighbour did roof ( died last year!) Electrician did two hours cash. Cousin plumber sink. Where would you get receipts? Solicitors & Accountants, by law, only keep documents for approx 3 - 6 years!

Secondly as a Professional, I retained all receipts and instruction books for everything. I have them in a box. Unfortunately I have many boxes. Yes, if push came to shove I'd find them but I'm more organised than most. (Cowboy "tradesmen" and bad Customer Services have bred a Receipt Fetish in me:D ) Most people don't bother with receipts.

Now surely Endoscopes, small core drill - extract make up of wall, thermal imaging can solve the problem? (Appearing on site with high tech equipment, rather than a A4 folder - might inspire confidence from the public - they may even feel they are receiving a professional service)

muffler

jimmmy wrote: »

lol Not only do you not carry core drills around in your pockets, you probably would not know what a drill was if you tripped on it while you were "calculating the specific u value of a wall, by visually verifying it" lol lol
Maybe your "software" tells you what is inside the wall lol

Drop the attitude if you wish to continue to post here, Infraction given for trolling.

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not a BER assessor, do not work in the construction industry and am certainly not an auctioneer....but I do know more than a bit about construction etc...more than the average BER assessor I would imagine.

Care to enlighten us as to where this wealth of knowledge you claim to posses has been derived from.

brianmacl

sinnerboy wrote: »

You may be interested to refer to this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58698209&postcount=25

Sorry to hear you are no longer an EA .

Can you clarify something ? Do you believe newer houses have an advantage or not - your tale about the 1950's property seems not to support this

I did raise this issue at a training course and was told the opposite to this by the trainer.

I am happy to no longer be an EA, I left when I saw a bussiness opertunity and lifestyle change that was good for me. I will probably go back into an EA job in the future but only with a RICS member so I can do my APC.

In general for the past 10 - 15 years the gov have tried give new builds an advantage over second hand property(I believe that this did add to the bubble bust senario and most definitely added to property inflation). Stamp duty was the most obvious way but there were others, the gov loans to FTB from the last finance act, Licence agreements.....

In this case Properties that are brand new are more likely to get a better grade as the assessor has more info at their finger tips. in some cases the easiest way for someone to go from one grade to a higher one would be to give the Assessor loads of info on the property such as details on heating system, evidence of additional insulation in walls, better windows..... but as most people know, they kept all this info in a safe box but can't find it now.

brianmacl

sinnerboy wrote: »

Was the extension a sun room/ conservatory Brian ? Does it "flow through" openly to the main house or is it separated by doors /wall

If so the owner should be advised ( which you may well have done - I'm sure ) to heat it separately to the main house . And use external quality doors to separate it . The BER rating would improve

The extention does fall into the conservatory catagory until you add the fact that it is attached to the central heating and there is no cut off. I have advised the owner that the space should be heated seperately. but he said "sure the tenants can switch of the rad at the rad" and they are happy to do so...

brianmacl

RKQ wrote: »

Now surely Endoscopes, small core drill - extract make up of wall, thermal imaging can solve the problem? (Appearing on site with high tech equipment, rather than a A4 folder - might inspire confidence from the public - they may even feel they are receiving a professional service)

I agree but how much would it cost to provide this service. Considering most home owners look at this as a tax and are pissed at paying €200 I can't see it working.

Rather, EA are going to tell people that BERs on older houses tend to use default values and are vague and not always correct. they are going to give examples such as the one covered by the Sunday Times 2 weeks ago. They are already taking the mick out of a poorly written law and they will continue to give out about it because SEI didn't role it out very well and won't let them do properties that they are selling.

321654

There are threads over on askaboutmoney.com on BER . There are prices of €150 or lower quoted if you look through the threads.

brianmacl

By the way the below is part of a letter form the IAVI to it's members: (points 2,3, 6 and 7 may be interesting) In response to point 2 SEI have been asked to further explain and define the exemption of listed properties. The reason being there are properties that are listed exterior only and listed buildings that have beed massively extended and it is not certain whether these require a cert. anyway

National Council gave serious consideration to the entire BER situation at its meeting on Thursday last and has concluded that its advice to IAVI members must be as follows

The introduction of BER into Ireland has been poorly handled and it is the view of the IAVI’s National Council that the BER certification area is likely to prove litigious.

Both assessors and those who recommend assessors could in some instances be exposed to litigation, with an impact on Professional Indemnity premiums. For example, a member firm has been threatened with a law suit because it recommended an assessor who carried out a BER assessment and issued a certificate on a listed building when such buildings do not require a BER certificate.

Very strong competition in the market place, particularly once the system is actually operating properly later this year, is likely to result in many undertaking assessments for an uneconomic return, impacting on the quality of assessments and the accuracy of certification in such cases.

Unless a reversal is forced on it by Government, SEI looks likely to stick with its view that agents cannot provide assessment for clients in respect of properties they are letting or selling.

Despite indications to the contrary given in late November, SEI officially holds the view that a certificate is required to market a property from 1st January 2009, which is the law. The fact that a national test, recognised as necessary by SEI, is not in place has not prevented it permitting assessors to undertake the work on a provisional basis.

Members are advised by National Council against recommending named assessors and instead to merely refer clients to the list of assessors approved by SEI. In the view of Council, any systemic problems arising from such assessors not yet having passed a national test is a matter between SEI, property owners and consumer organisations and any interference in the process by agents, e.g. in terms of recommending specific assessors, could unnecessarily embroil them in such problems. National Council believes that members restricting their recommendations to IAVI members who are in turn on the SEI list could be viewed as anti-competitive and would not guarantee an absence of consequences for the member making the recommendation in certain circumstances. The National Council will give consideration as to whether a list of IAVI members who are on the SEI panel should be separately published on the IAVI web site but no decision in this regard has been made

In terms of accepting a referral fee from assessors, such referral fees are likely to strengthen any potential liability on the part of members should something go wrong with the assessment and should be avoided

Members who have not yet committed to become involved in providing BER assessments are advised to bear in mind the problems evident with the regime, the very high level of competition likely to exist in the market place and the current and potential long-term exclusion of acting for your own clients in BER terms when selling or letting property. However, while sufficient demand continues, the IAVI will continue to offer training courses to members through its arrangement with Energy Action Ireland

muffler

Please remove the post above and replace it using the default text.

brianmacl

muffler wrote: »

Please remove the post above and replace it using the default text.

Sorry about that, I just coppied and pasted it, is the above okay? I didn't remove it I just edited it.

muffler

brianmacl wrote: »

Sorry about that, I just coppied and pasted it, is the above okay? I didn't remove it I just edited it.

No problems. The edited version is grand.

first one was the dogs bollix though

sinnerboy

RKQ wrote: »

Now surely Endoscopes, small core drill - extract make up of wall, thermal imaging can solve the problem? (Appearing on site with high tech equipment, rather than a A4 folder - might inspire confidence from the public - they may even feel they are receiving a professional service)

An entry level thermal imaging camera costs about €6k . Have a look here esp page 14 to see the conditions under which such a survey must take place

www.hfs.scot.nhs.uk/publications/tn9-2002.pdf

Cost , cost , cost

How may people will want , at the point of sale or letting their property , to have it drilled ? ( Perhaps Jimmy will know - he knows what "the people" think )

.

sinnerboy

brianmacl wrote: »

Rather, EA are going to tell people that BERs on older houses tend to use default values and are vague and not always correct. they are going to give examples such as the one covered by the Sunday Times 2 weeks ago. They are already taking the mick out of a poorly written law and they will continue to give out about it because SEI didn't role it out very well and won't let them do properties that they are selling.

I fear you are oh so right here Brian .....

So far removed from Kyoto Protocol and the EPBD that provided for BER's accross Europe .

But it is early days . We are not yet out of the first month of it's full implementation ( for the sake of my overall argument I discount that new houses have need BER's for a some time ) .

I DO believe ( and I am a cynical type myself ) that in time ( perhaps 3-5 years ) when people get past the point of having to obtain BER's on the property they are disposing of and start receiving certs for those properties they have a new interest in , that perceptions will change .

Do people ( Jimmy ? ) ignore energy labels on fridges and dishwashers?

.

sinnerboy

brianmacl wrote: »

By the way the below is part of a letter form the IAVI to it's members: ...... Energy Action Ireland

Great post Brian . ( I have shortened it here for ease / reference only ) It is good to have this perspective .

No6

sinnerboy wrote: »

Great post Brian . ( I have shortened it here for ease / reference only ) It is good to have this perspective .

I agree, its a great post and its good to see what the IAVI think of the dreadful way the system is working and the advice they are giving their members. I wonder when SEI are going to declare its been rubbish so far, hhhmmm maybe not!!

321654

sinnerboy wrote: »

Do people ( Jimmy ? ) ignore energy labels on fridges and dishwashers?

I think most people know that the energy rating on a fridge means damn all difference to your electricity bill.

The difference between grades is negligible.

brianmacl

No6 wrote: »

I agree, its a great post and its good to see what the IAVI think of the dreadful way the system is working and the advice they are giving their members. I wonder when SEI are going to declare its been rubbish so far, hhhmmm maybe not!!

In 2004 the gov brought out a peice of legislation called the Private Residential Tenancies Act which meant that they had to create the Private Residential Tenancies Board. It was baddly roled out but it now works. It probably would have been a good idea in 2006 for the gov to have learned from their mistakes and possiblely brought accross some people from the PRTB rather than re invernting the wheel as they were both in property related areas.

brianmacl

muffler wrote: »

No problems. The edited version is grand.

first one was the dogs bollix though

I always thought the dogs bollix was a good thing.:D