BER Cert cost?

sydthebeat

dunie..... i think you are describing a different service.

If someone requests a BER it is generally because the are selling or renting.

If they want an energy assessmnet in order to upgrade their houses then that is a separate issues to what the vast majority of this thread is about.
You points are very valid if that were the case.

There is no obligation to furnish a client with an advisory report prior to publishing the cert. In general the two are published together.

On your first point, a simple phone call the day before the assessment can sort all that out... if there has been upgrades and there is no receipts, photos or access to verify then they should not be included. Heating system upgrades and controls can be verified on site.

dunie001

Good point Syd!

Although the Advisory Report that SEI give for assessors to give to clients is ridiculous! It's a random bunch of information that barely offers any advice at all and it would baffle most clients as to why an assessor would give such a thing in the first place.

I know assessor's don't have to tell the client what the Rating will be prior to publishing, but i'd say that some clients would be insulted if the assessor just landed at their front door with a Rating of F or G without even giving the client a chance to improve it or at least give them the opportuntiy to get an improvement Report (at extra cost)...

By the way, I myself am an assessor and have done one or two houses to date....there aren't many houses in leitrim! And the houses i've done were for people who just wanted "the bit of paper" to keep it all legal...but I still had to chase up invoices and all that for the house.

Of course i've only started at the BER Certs and it's hard to remember to ask people about invoices and all that (usually they haven't a clue what you're talking about anyway!). Usually photos are all the proof that can be gotten...the invoices being lost or never given by installer in the first place (especially when improvement done prior to any talk about BERs...over 10yrs ago)

It's very hard to explain to people who don't know anything about BER's what's required for it and why...one person even asked me if i walk around the house with a machine to "measure the energy rating".

No6

Is that a machine that goes wooo oh wooo or is it the really cool one that goes Ping!!!!:D All the while walking in a suitable Minstery of Funny Walks style with a dead parrot on your shoulder!!!:D

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

Is that a machine that goes wooo oh wooo or is it the really cool one that goes Ping!!!!:D All the while walking in a suitable Minstery of Funny Walks style with a dead parrot on your shoulder!!!:D

Yup thats it.

321654

The Ber guys here are starting to sound like all the estate agents over the years. Flogging a dead horse. People will choose the cheapest. Thats just how the world works.

sinnerboy

No they don't - otherwise we would all be driving Lada's

dunie001

ha ha ha! walkin' round the house with a cardboard box with "Energy Rating Generator" on the side making whirring noises! aw lord! even the thought makes me want to laugh out loud!

Seriously though BER prices will vary wildly as people will do almost anything to make a few bucks considering the way the economy is at the moment.:eek:

Great time to make improvements to a house if you're a home-owner mind you! It's a buyer's market out there! Deals a plenty if you look for them!:D

Also, if you think the price is high...let the assessor know! That's the only way it'll work in order to get prices down a bit...the assessor won't turn you down if they have big bills to pay!

No6

I'm getting Registered BER Assessor printed on my Striaght Jacket!!:D

topcatcbr

Come on down the price is right

BER Assessors.

Now there is an idea

I dont know but i think we have done BER Prices to death.

What do we do now

sinnerboy

RTE news tonight , EU report reckons Eurozone generally will start recovery in March / April , with Ireland lagging behind till end of year .

Till then .... 3 BER's for the price of 2. buy one , get one free .

muffler

There's a fortune to be made at counterfeiting nowadays :eek:

force4

muffler wrote: »

There's a fortune to be made at counterfeiting nowadays :eek:

I`m a registered assessor and I don`t think its a sustainable business on its own(like the pun) . However cheap BER certs in a cut-throat market is all fine. If you buy a cheap knock off watch on holidays you know exactly what you are getting. But it strikes me that some of the cheaper assessors saw this as a killing to be made and may not last the distance of a provisional cert never mind ten years.
All registered assessors signed a code of practice and gave an undertaking to store the files of each assessment. So an assessor charging €150 is doing say 5 a week and over 2 years thats 500 files (thats a lot of paper to keep safe for the duration) and I just wonder what kind of s*** there will be if they do a runner when they realise there is no gravy train.
According to the code of practice there are several reasons a cert can be revoked, the worst being an assessor having his registration revoked and quite possibly all the certs .
I also wonder if saying you used a registered assessor will suffice to give impunity against a fine if the cert has indeed been revoked .Like the Muffelator says I imagine it would be relatively easy for someone with counterfeiting experience or not ,to roll off false certs to unsuspecting punters.
There`s an old saying in this country "if you pay peanuts you get monkey`s" .
Lets plant some trees.

sinnerboy

force4 wrote: »

Lets plant some trees.

Or buy some scanners , tippex and photoshop .....








.... JOKING :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

brianmacl

Energysaver wrote: »

BTW, I'm an engineer.;)

Engineers are just want to be physicists who aren't good enough at maths or thoery:)

I was a want to be physicist who wasn't good enough at exams.:eek:

321654

The vast majority of People will get a BER cert only because they have to.

Do you think a landlord or a person selling cares how accurate the assessment is. They dont. they only care about the price.

Assessors are as likely to go over or under the true reading so it doesnt really matter does it.

And for apartment blocks. The owners might as well ask the neighbours who they got their from. If its a good price they will ask that person to do it. That assessor has already done the work for identical apartments so no more new work involved there.

Matt Simis

topcatcbr wrote: »

Are you suggesting that those that got into this from a non construction backround will be as good as those who qualified for the scheme as it was meant.

Are you suggesting they cant be?
Ive talked to lots of builders ("construction background" could be a plasterer or anyone btw, too vague a label you picked) and they admit to building to cost, ie doing the bear minimum with no regard/interest for energy efficiency more than the legal requirements, which they skirt close to when possible. I think its perfectly reasonable for someone from a non-Construction background to be a very good and diligent accessor, as much as it is for a Arch who breezes through a BER in a half assed manner. Intelligence quotient is not measured on your CV.

I somewhat appreciate you guys are just trying to differentiate yourselves from chancers, but I would suggest talking to someone from this much maligned "non-construction background", perhaps marketing or self promotion professions on how to go about doing that in a "constructive" manner. Poor and repeated attempts at belittling others due to their former profession of choice is in itself unprofessional and distasteful and as above quite likely incorrect.


Its also not up to you to determine who the scheme was "meant" for. There are fairly strict entry requirements to even be allowed the opportunity to take the training course to hopefully pass the exam to at some point in the future take the national exam. Yet there are "construction" people failing said exam, despite being a shoe in..?
If you cant stand that people from outside your sphere of comfort can compete on the same level as you then thats a very personal issue.

muffler

Do you feel better now with that off your chest?

Matt Simis

muffler wrote: »

Do you feel better now with that off your chest?

Pity to see that from you. Thats almost like state sponsored bitterness.
I see the silver lining, those with other professional experiences could provide a useful infusion to a depressing and dwindling industry. If you guys cant see that, continue to begrudge.. :rolleyes:

topcatcbr

Matt Simis wrote: »

Are you suggesting they cant be?
Ive talked to lots of builders ("construction background" could be a plasterer or anyone btw, too vague a label you picked) and they admit to building to cost, ie doing the bear minimum with no regard/interest for energy efficiency more than the legal requirements, which they skirt close to when possible. I think its perfectly reasonable for someone from a non-Construction background to be a very good and diligent accessor, as much as it is for a Arch who breezes through a BER in a half assed manner. Intelligence quotient is not measured on your CV.

It is not for nothing that the minimum requirements specified to do this course was at a minimum a third level cert in construction studies.
The reason was because you will not get thought contstruction studies on the BER course. You are expected to already know this
You might think that it is perfectly reasonable for someone who did not qualify for for the scheme due to inadequate prior training to do a great job assessing the home (and it is possible) but like any profession there should be controls on who is qualified to perform the function. You wouldnt expect a mechanic to perform surgery after doing a first aid course even if they watched every eppisode of ER. It amounts to the same thing.

I somewhat appreciate you guys are just trying to differentiate yourselves from chancers, but I would suggest talking to someone from this much maligned "non-construction background", perhaps marketing or self promotion professions on how to go about doing that in a "constructive" manner. Poor and repeated attempts at belittling others due to their former profession of choice is in itself unprofessional and distasteful and as above quite likely incorrect.

What should we do. Perhapse train them in construction studies. I dont have the time.

Its also not up to you to determine who the scheme was "meant" for. There are fairly strict entry requirements to even be allowed the opportunity to take the training course to hopefully pass the exam to at some point in the future take the national exam. Yet there are "construction" people failing said exam, despite being a shoe in..?
If you cant stand that people from outside your sphere of comfort can compete on the same level as you then thats a very personal issue.

I didnt determine who the scheme was meant for SEI did this and issued guidelines to the training providers. The major collages adhered to this and in the begining these were the people who were trained.

It was the private training providers who decided to bend and disregard these guidelines.
They took anybody who had the money to pay.

I have nothing but sympathy for these people as i feel they were conned. They may have passed an exam on the BER software DEAP and can if given the info can put it into the software. This is what you are examined on the BER course. You are not examined on your knowladge of construction studies. You should already have done and been examined on this.

How can they be expected to recognise all the myriad of technologies which are common and some not so common when they go onsite to actually do the survey.

I would not go into a hairdressers after being shown how to use a hair clippers and start dyeing and styling hair. It is not something i know anything about. But if i did it would be plain to see. The difference is that the BER scheme is not as obvious and if you could see some of the questions posted on the technical side of the BER website i think you would change your mind.

Matt Simis

topcatcbr wrote: »

You wouldnt expect a mechanic to perform surgery after doing a first aid course even if they watched every eppisode of ER. It amounts to the same thing.

Take a step back.. do you really believe doing a BER from a non-construction profession, which doesnt quantify experience, is the same as a mechanic performing surgery? Not to mention there you are comparing two specific industry professions, your other posts make it clear you dont want any non-construction types regardless of profession playing in your yard. Estate Agents can/are considered to be in a construction related field and -are- apparently getting qualified as Assessors.. think its obvious the issues that exist there.

I have no doubt that certain construction professions are extremely well matched to being a BER Accessors. I also think that not everyone in the Construction industry is automagically a decent Accessor, its just too open ended a statement to make. You completely negate personal ability (or lack of it) and that just irks me.

topcatcbr wrote: »

What should we do. Perhapse train them in construction studies. I dont have the time.

Think you missed my point..?
Just not sure where you are going with this.. are under-experienced Assessors asking you for training (mind you, you could charge them..), that I wouldnt endorse.

muffler

Matt Simis wrote: »

Pity to see that from you. Thats almost like state sponsored bitterness.
I see the silver lining, those with other professional experiences could provide a useful infusion to a depressing and dwindling industry. If you guys cant see that, continue to begrudge.. :rolleyes:

And its a pity to read that from you.

If you took the time and bother to read all the posts and threads in relation to this you will see where the problem lies. And its certainly nothing to do with your narrow minded perspective.

Please dont annoy the muffler with such silly comments.

Matt Simis

muffler wrote: »

And its a pity to read that from you.

If you took the time and bother to read all the posts and threads in relation to this you will see where the problem lies. And its certainly nothing to do with your narrow minded perspective.

Please dont annoy the muffler with such silly comments.

I only post after reading every single BER post on boards from the very first one (thank you search) to this. If you feel my comments are stupid so be it, but you arent helping this topic or the "cause" in general with such dismissive posts. Infact it this invite-only attitude that just isnt going to build you goodwill.. and goodwill is what BER needs now more than ever. Its an open market and the consumer will pay for quality and service. You either deliver or you dont, there simply isnt room or acceptance of crap quality these days.

Considering my original post(s) werent even directed at you, its a bit silly to come along and warn me not to bother you.. no?

topcatcbr

Matt Simis wrote: »

Take a step back.. do you really believe doing a BER from a non-construction profession, which doesnt quantify experience, is the same as a mechanic performing surgery? Not to mention there you are comparing two specific industry professions, your other posts make it clear you dont want any non-construction types regardless of profession playing in your yard.

You can take quotes out of context if you like but they are doing a construction related job they may not be qualified to do. Like me doing hairdressing or farming or any other job i am not qualified for.

I do not own the construction yard i meerly work in it. But im qualified to do this. All are welcome. But you completly miss the point. But I will try to explain it again.

People are being told they will be able and qualified to do a job (BER Assessor) if they pay €2000 plus to training providers and a further €1215 to SEI. This is clearly not the case. They are being ripped off. This in turn causes problems for the industry.

Some will put the effort in and become quite good. This is not the point. The point is what about those who dont. They were miss sold the training they paid for. They were miss represented by SEI who should of ensured they were not allowed be trained until they proved their previous training and or experience.

Estate Agents can/are considered to be in a construction related field and -are- apparently getting qualified as Assessors.. think its obvious the issues that exist there.

I have no problems with this as long as they do not assess their own.

I have no doubt that certain construction professions are extremely well matched to being a BER Accessors. I also think that not everyone in the Construction industry is automagically a decent Accessor, its just too open ended a statement to make. You completely negate personal ability (or lack of it) and that just irks me.



Think you missed my point..?
Just not sure where you are going with this.. are under-experienced Assessors asking you for training (mind you, you could charge them..), that I wouldnt endorse.

Some assessors are asking questions on another private forum hoping to get answers from someone.


Maybee i did.

Could you explain it without the personal attacks this time maybe.

muffler

Matt Simis wrote: »

Considering my original post(s) werent even directed at you, its a bit silly to come along and warn me not to bother you.. no?

First of all yours or anyone else's posts here dont have to be directed at me for me to take note of and respond to them. Im one of the moderators of this forum and every post I read either pleases me, leaves me in the same mood as I was in before I read it or annoys me. It is one of my functions to ensure that whatever is being discussed is fair and balanced.

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick here altogether. The guys here who are mostly ATs weren't putting just anyone down so to speak. They were (are) all fairly much in agreement that all BER assessors should have a construction industry background but it was the likes of the butchers, bakers and candlestick makers that they have taken exception to and rightly so in my opinion. Thats it in a nutshell.

sinnerboy

Matt Simis wrote: »

Are you suggesting they cant be?

I do assert it . Look around this forum in general - queries from from educated posters , self builders , home owners - seeking construction and planning advice . BER means Building Energy Rating , those who understand buildings best are best for the task

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ive talked to lots of builders ("construction background" could be a plasterer or anyone btw, too vague a label you picked) and they admit to building to cost, ie doing the bear minimum with no regard/interest for energy efficiency more than the legal requirements, which they skirt close to when possible.

Tottaly irrelevant to BER assement

Matt Simis wrote: »

I think its perfectly reasonable for someone from a non-Construction background to be a very good and diligent accessor

no - it isn't

Matt Simis wrote: »

as much as it is for a Arch who breezes through a BER in a half assed manner.

... not going to happen

Matt Simis wrote: »

Intelligence quotient is not measured on your CV.

... bit cryptic that

Matt Simis wrote: »

I somewhat appreciate you guys are just trying to differentiate yourselves from chancers, but I would suggest talking to someone from this much maligned "non-construction background", perhaps marketing or self promotion professions on how to go about doing that in a "constructive" manner. Poor and repeated attempts at belittling others due to their former profession of choice is in itself unprofessional and distasteful and as above quite likely incorrect.

Quite simply , those who understand building best will make the best BER assessors - I would advise to seek an assessor who is either ( in no particular order ) architect , engineer , quantity surveyor , architectural technician , building services engineer . On the course I attended there was a florist and a retired guard . Now , don't come to me if you want to buy dahlias or if your house is burgled ....

Matt Simis wrote: »

Its also not up to you to determine who the scheme was "meant" for. There are fairly strict entry requirements to even be allowed the opportunity to take the training course

wrong .... there was supposed to be ... but in practice there was not

Matt Simis wrote: »

to hopefully pass the exam to at some point in the future take the national exam. Yet there are "construction" people failing said exam, despite being a shoe in..?

how do you know that ?

Matt Simis wrote: »

If you cant stand that people from outside your sphere of comfort can compete on the same level as you then thats a very personal issue.

Not the point at all . Caveat emptor - consumers be aware that , like with all things available in a free market , the quality of assessors can and will vary .

sinnerboy

Matt Simis wrote: »

I see the silver lining, those with other professional experiences could provide a useful infusion to a depressing and dwindling industry.

... you offering Matt ?

Matt Simis

sinnerboy wrote: »

... you offering Matt ?

I would welcome an open discussion on how to market ones self certainly, I have various proficiencies and marketing (albeit large scale corporate product experience) is one of them. This is what I tried to suggest, an appropriate way of presenting yourselves, clearly you are the "best" guys for the job. Sure, its easier to bemoan everyone else and lash out on anyone that "comes by", but to what end?

Unfortunately the multi-quote-bonaza above is now impossible to address, it appears the choice of wording or topic has lit a mental fuse with certain folk who have read my posts in a red haze and to be frank, did not understand passages of text and misconstrued sentiments entirely. Im not making a personal attack on anyone (re-read please) nor do I debate the best candidates for BER Assessment are those with certain key Construction backgrounds (infact I actually stated so). My minor (IMO) point of contention that its not impossible for someone (a star flyer) from an outside field to be better than someone (below average) in that field. This is true for many professions. Being from an outside industry does not mean zero experience or zero aptitude, it simply means your primary source of income lies elsewhere.

Perhaps its bad timing, but its clear this conversation is not welcome and nothing constructive will come of it.

sinnerboy

Matt , I take you at your word that you meant well .

brianmacl

topcatcbr wrote: »

Are you suggesting that those that got into this from a non construction backround will be as good as those who qualified for the scheme as it was meant.

I wonder what you mean by "construction background"? there are people that entered this scheme straight out of college with engineering degrees who have never been on site, trade men that know loads about plastering but might not have the Maths, logical or spacial reasoning to be able to measure up a property properly and do the calculations required.

On the other hand there are people who have worked for estate agents for a number of years, have either worked towards or are working towards a degree with about 1/4 of that degree being construction studies. They have measured many houses and some are not just glorified sales people they know about property (including construction types), law and are good with numbers.

So I wonder what do you mean by "construction background"?

Patrickof

Correct, simply saying that those with a "construction background" are best placed to do certs is unfair to other professions (I do agree that florists, retired gardas etc are probably not going to make good assessors).

When I did the course there were construction folk present who knew their own area of construction but no other, eg. one carpenter had worked with timber frame homes for 4 years but knew nothing about electrics or plumbing (couldn't even identify a central heating pump).

There was also a marine engineer with years of experience who knew housing and building science in great depth (maybe too much!!)

Don't also forget that part of the process is record keeping for ten years, to do this properly is not a trivial exercise.

My point is, blanket statements about particular backgrounds do not reflect the reality.

Finally, we should also distuinguish between the issuing of BER certs and issuing recommendations on how to improve a rating. The first is a relatively easy job that you can be trained to do, the second requires a good few years actual hands on experience in the industry.