Who is going to win the league?

Melion

There's even less chance of Tevez getting a game now that Tosic(sp??) is signed.

redout

Chelsea

Jazzy wrote: »

he will always be the 2nd fiddle to rooney & ronaldo.

You mean Berbatov no ? Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez always played starting 11 before Berbatov arrived.

Boggles

Jazzy wrote: »

2nd fiddle to rooney & ronaldo.

Well there is whole orchestra waiting for him at Madrid.

He will get his 40+ Caps, like most other top flight players if he stays at United.

Melion

Frisbee wrote: »

The way he was treated in the summer. I mean who in their right mind thinks Gareth Barry is a better player than Xabi Alonso?
And if you do you need your head examined.
Granted he's played 90mins in nearly all your games this season, but that only seems to be because he's been playing out of his skin.

Anything to do with Rafa giving him the kick up the arse he needed during the summer?
His form had dipped very dramatically last year. He wasnt worth his place in the starting XI for a lot of games. It was well known how well they got on in their first season at Anfield. Every single time Rafa wanted to get instructions onto the pitch it was always Xabi he called over to the sideline.

The only reason Rafa was annoyed at him was because Xabi went to be with his wife/girlfriend who was due to give birth instead of travelling to Milan for the 2nd leg of the CL last year

bUILDERtHEbOB

Man Utd

Frisbee wrote: »

The way he was treated in the summer. I mean who in their right mind thinks Gareth Barry is a better player than Xabi Alonso?
And if you do you need your head examined.
Granted he's played 90mins in nearly all your games this season, but that only seems to be because he's been playing out of his skin.

In the summer Rafa said he wanted to keep Alonso and Alonso said he wanted to stay.

The club would've been able to afford Barry without selling too because if they got him Keane wouldn't have been bought and in fairness if the club were trying to force him out I honestly think Xabi would have said something about it.

CountryWise

Chelsea

I voted for Man Utd but I am a fan.

I honestly dont think Liverpool will win the league and the reasons behind that are that

a) their squad isnt comparable with Chelsea or United

b) united and Chelsea have been poor by their own standards all season and yet Liverpool are just in front

c) champions league participation will play a huge factor, United and Chelsea have dealt with being top of the league before while also playing european opposition while Liverpool have always been able to concentrate mostly on Champions league knockout phase most years(apart from challenging Everton for fourth) as they are out of the reckoning for the EPL by the time February comes around and im not trying to cause arguement here by saying that. This time around they will have the pressures of both.

In saying that the league table might differ slightly by the time Feb comes around.

The one thing that worries me from a United point of view is this notion of everything "clicking" in the second half of the season, there is no guarantees of this,Ronaldo isnt at his usual standards and Berba is still relatively new to the squad!

Scholes returning will hopefully start unlocking more teams

Il openly admit though I am biased, its hard not to be

Xavi6

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

United should come out on top.

Failing that, I hope anyone bar Liverpool wins it.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Can someone explain a weak area in the Liverpool squad?

1 person tried to answer me lads

Xavi6

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

Melion wrote: »

1 person tried to answer me lads

Full back.

Arbeloa - Average
Insua - Potential but unproven
Dossena - Shite
Degan - Crocked
Carragher - Not a full back anymore. Struggled to handle Ross Wallace at the weekend.
Aurelio - Shite

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

Full back.

Arbeloa - Average Couldnt disagree more
Insua - Potential but unproven This lad could be world class IMO
Dossena - ShiteYou're being very generous
Degan - CrockedCant form an opinion on him really
Carragher - Not a full back anymore. Struggled to handle Ross Wallace at the weekend.
Aurelio - ShiteHas been excellent for us, when fit

.

eagle eye

Frisbee wrote: »

The way he was treated in the summer. I mean who in their right mind thinks Gareth Barry is a better player than Xabi Alonso?
And if you do you need your head examined.
Granted he's played 90mins in nearly all your games this season, but that only seems to be because he's been playing out of his skin.

Wow, way to put across your point and not have anyone rebuke it.:rolleyes:

You know that you get away with that one because Villa fans are not in love with Mr Barry anymore. Even though he has been fantastic this season.

To be fair though, last years Gareth Barry was far superior to last years Alonso. And if you think differently you need your head examined.:)

Frisbee

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

eagle eye wrote: »

Wow, way to put across your point and not have anyone rebuke it.:rolleyes:

You know that you get away with that one because Villa fans are not in love with Mr Barry anymore. Even though he has been fantastic this season.

To be fair though, last years Gareth Barry was far superior to last years Alonso. And if you think differently you need your head examined.:)

Gareth Barry was better last year yes.
Only because Alonso wasn't getting as much of a role.
Xabi Alonso is a much more complete player than Gareth Barry.
This year he has blown him out of the water and outlined what a big mistake it would have been letting Xabi go and signing Barry.
And what do you mean I know I'm going to get away with it because Villa fans don't like Barry?
Do you think I wouldn't say it if I thought Villa fans would disagree.
That's the purpose of an online message board, to discuss and debate.

Boggles

Agree, Rafa was more than happy to cash in on Alonso and get in Barry, Problem was not many came in for Alonso, not at the Cash, thrifty Rafa was asking for anyways.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Man Utd

Boggles wrote: »

Agree, Rafa was more than happy to cash in on Alonso and get in Barry, Problem was not many came in for Alonso, not at the Cash, thrifty Rafa was asking for anyways.

You know for a fact that Rafa wanted Alonso to leave, yes?

eagle eye

I didn't vote as its still too early to call it, I think United have to be favourites at the current time, but I still would not rule Chelsea out of it. I don't think Liverpool do it as Mr Benitez is too defence minded and will end up losing two points far too often to win the League. Actually I'd rather Aston Villa's chances to Liverpools and thats a big statement but at least they go out and try to win matches by playing exciting attacking football, like United. I think this has been Chelseas problem to a certain degree also for last two years. Scolari is trying to change the way they play but the lack of width is a problem there also. Too often you seen them almost falling over each other in the centre of the park. The thing is they have such a powerful squad that if he were to pick up some wide players this month, you could not rule them out.

eagle eye

Frisbee wrote: »

Gareth Barry was better last year yes.
Only because Alonso wasn't getting as much of a role.
Xabi Alonso is a much more complete player than Gareth Barry.
This year he has blown him out of the water and outlined what a big mistake it would have been letting Xabi go and signing Barry.
And what do you mean I know I'm going to get away with it because Villa fans don't like Barry?
Do you think I wouldn't say it if I thought Villa fans would disagree.
That's the purpose of an online message board, to discuss and debate.

I don't think these two players are really comparable to be honest. Gareth Barry can tackle, play wide and gets around the pitch a lot more than Alonso. I think Alonso is much better with the ball at his feet than Barry but there are too many areas where they differ greatly to really compare them. I honestly don't see how Benitez could have considered one as a replacement for the other.
Barry can play defensive midfield, Alonso cannot.
I'm not siding with one or the other by the way, they could play very well as a pairing in midfield actually.

That was just a joke by the way. Edit the joke I meant was the villa bit earlier.

Frisbee

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

You know for a fact that Rafa wanted Alonso to leave, yes?

Benitez would have sold Alonso if the offer had been a bit higher, that's why he turned down the first offer saying it wasn't enough, rather than turning it down and saying Alonso wasn't for sale.

Boggles

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

You know for a fact that Rafa wanted Alonso to leave, yes?

Yeah he discusses all his possible transfers with me.

5starpool

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How do you make this out? With the exception of Utd at home, Liverpool have played 7 of the other 9 top 10 teams last season away from home so far.

I still think Utd will win it (2 months ago though I thought Chelsea were nailed on for it), but you can't rule Chelsea out, or of course Liverpool. This might well be our season, and please let it be so.

redzerdrog

Aston Villa

chelsea will win it on points defference:pac: to utd and liverpool a further 2 points behind

i hope am wrong and liverpool win it with a game to spare coz either that id prob have a nervous breakdown the last day of season

mormank

Man Utd

Boggles wrote: »

Totally agree, I did voice my converns when Super Mario got the job,
but I think the players are strong enough to mount something on their own.



Because it is a squad game and to battle on 4 fronts you need not just a large squad but a large squad with quality, Personally I think United need another top quality striker, if John O'Shea made 40 appearances last season, then I think we can accomadate one of the most unique great talents I have seen in years, Tevez to stay, it must happen. I honestly would not swap him for any other striker in the league.

As for the title, it will be down to Chelsea and United again, Rafa is just too negative to win the league, unless he changes his mindset, I think Liverpool will be empty handed again this season and the Yanks who have not known any success yet could well look elsewhere for a manager.

you wouldnt swap tevez for torres?? ok boggles, ok...

and as for rafa being too defensive to win the league, he did it at valencia in a similar fashion so you are just wrong imo..and you can cry all you like about how it can work in spain but not in the EPL..im not buyin it

mayordenis

Man Utd

I only started reading this retard of a thread a few minutes ago, it developed exactly as expected.

Beau x1

I voted Arsenal for the laugh.

CHD

Aston Villa

Chelsea obv

ziggy

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

This post has been deleted.

shakespeare

Chelsea

I think Utd are gonna do it. Im a Utd fan but not too bias I hope.

Whichever way ya look at it, Liverpool have worked their arses off to be where they are. Fair play to them. They worked their arses off against utd and Chelsea and got results and deservedly so on both occasions if perhaps a bit fortuitous? But sometimes hard work earns luck I guess.

I just cant see Liverpool maintaining that kind of graft over a full season…and I cant abide by all this “Liverpool are playing poorly and winning…it’s the mark of champions” madness!

I disagree. The mark of champions, i.m.o, is in general, playing very well, beating some teams with a degree of comfort while playing good football, entertaining as well as getting results etc.…and when they DO have off days(which every good team does) they still grind out a result of some sort. I don’t think Liverpool are doing this. In fact I think they are doing the opposite. I think they are playing badly for the majority of the time but grinding out results and the very odd time (against poor opposition) dominating them and winning comfortably. This isn’t a team that deserves a league title…and unless they drastically improve…I don’t think they’ll get one.

So I think the league will take shape in 5 or 6 weeks…Arsenal will nick more points of the top three…utd will be frustrated and draw a few more…Chelsea will rally I think…but...and Im trying not to poke at Liverpool too much…and ill stand by this statement…Liverpool will not win the league.

All just my opinion of course.

whatawaster

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

but people have been going on and on about United's fixture list being so tough, ignoring the fact that Liverpool's hasn't been THAT much easier. Chelsea on the other hand have had a lot of the so called weaker sides away from home.

I voted United, but i think if Torres stays fit and finds the same form as he did the second half of last season then we have a very good chance.

whatawaster

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

shakespeare wrote: »

I think Utd are gonna do it. Im a Utd fan but not too bias I hope.

Whichever way ya look at it, Liverpool have worked their arses off to be where they are. Fair play to them. They worked their arses off against utd and Chelsea and got results and deservedly so on both occasions if perhaps a bit fortuitous? But sometimes hard work earns luck I guess.

If you think Liverpool were in any way fortuitous to beat United then you need your head examined.

spockety

Melion wrote: »

Can i just ask one thing before the thread goes mental.

Why is everyone going to bang on about United not clicking yet but getting results? Surely Liverpool are in the same situation

Because United have done this every year.

Ergo with 99.99% accuracy we can predict that United will continue to do this every year for infinity, winning the league at a canter as long as they are always within 10 points of the leaders at Christmas. Forever.

QED. SMA.

kingshankly

shakespeare wrote: »

I think Utd are gonna do it. Im a Utd fan but not too bias I hope.

Whichever way ya look at it, Liverpool have worked their arses off to be where they are. Fair play to them. They worked their arses off against utd and Chelsea and got results and deservedly so on both occasions if perhaps a bit fortuitous? But sometimes hard work earns luck I guess.

I just cant see Liverpool maintaining that kind of graft over a full season…and I cant abide by all this “Liverpool are playing poorly and winning…it’s the mark of champions” madness!

I disagree. The mark of champions, i.m.o, is in general, playing very well, beating some teams with a degree of comfort while playing good football, entertaining as well as getting results etc.…and when they DO have off days(which every good team does) they still grind out a result of some sort. I don’t think Liverpool are doing this. In fact I think they are doing the opposite. I think they are playing badly for the majority of the time but grinding out results and the very odd time (against poor opposition) dominating them and winning comfortably. This isn’t a team that deserves a league title…and unless they drastically improve…I don’t think they’ll get one.

So I think the league will take shape in 5 or 6 weeks…Arsenal will nick more points of the top three…utd will be frustrated and draw a few more…Chelsea will rally I think…but...and Im trying not to poke at Liverpool too much…and ill stand by this statement…Liverpool will not win the league.

All just my opinion of course.

couldnt disagree more imo utd are playing the worse football of the top 4 at the moment there the new arsenal of the 90s (1-0)you have just contradicted yourself. im not saying liverpool will win the league but there playing as well as utd if not better.
i do think utd are liverpools greatest threat because the know how to win the league which could be invaluable come may

whatawaster

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

spockety wrote: »

Because United have done this every year.

Ergo with 99.99% accuracy we can predict that United will continue to do this every year for infinity, winning the league at a canter as long as they are always within 10 points of the leaders at Christmas. Forever.

QED. SMA.

and, of course, Liverpool traditionally go into freefall after Christmas under Rafa.

shakespeare

Chelsea

my head examined? why exactly???

i stated that they deserved their win for their graft and hard work. closing utd down and not giving room to play...of course they deserved to win...

but how many times have we seen teams hurry and hassle ...it stays 0 - 0only to be beaten by a last minute header or what have you...

my point...if ya read it properly...is that liverpool deserved their win but were FORTUITOUS in the fact that for all their huff and puff...they won the game from an own goal and an awful defensive mistake. thats why i said (again if you had of read it properly) sometime teams DESERVE their luck...beacuase of their hard work.

same with the chelsea game...Liverpool closed them down...didnt let them play...but still only had a defelcted shot to show the difference between the two teams...they earned their break in that game too.

now what part of my head needs testing?

spockety

This thread is ridiculously predictable.

My advice to Liverpool fans is to STFU. Let Rafa and the boys do the talking for us and see where we are at in May. With any luck, it will make some of what has been said on this thread even more hilarious when reviewed and we won't need to have said a thing.

The only thing I will point out is how amusing it is for people to be pointing out Rafa's defensive mindset only days after a 5-1 win.

shakespeare

Chelsea

kingshankly wrote: »

couldnt disagree more imo utd are playing the worse football of the top 4 at the moment there the new arsenal of the 90s (1-0)you have just contradicted yourself. im not saying liverpool will win the league but there playing as well as utd if not better.
i do think utd are liverpools greatest threat because the know how to win the league which could be invaluable come may

im not saying utd have been the best team so far this season...of course not...theyve been muck...
but experience tells me that utd will improve...and improve more then enough to be considered worthy champions come may. as they have done on many many occassions in the past...
i dont think liverpool can...i think this is it for them...they have not been in this position in 20 years and i doubt they will maintain the level theyve produced so far...

Helix

Arsenal

*wrong thread*

shakespeare

Chelsea

spockety wrote: »

This thread is ridiculously predictable.

My advice to Liverpool fans is to STFU. Let Rafa and the boys do the talking for us and see where we are at in May. With any luck, it will make some of what has been said on this thread even more hilarious when reviewed and we won't need to have said a thing.

The only thing I will point out is how amusing it is for people to be pointing out Rafa's defensive mindset only days after a 5-1 win.

im no fairweather spring chicken...and if im wrong ill be back to take my medicine.

(also, beating a dejected newcastle 5-1 is certainly not any kind of proof of a prolifically attacking side and bragging about it as anything more then a good performance against a team that regularly capitulates is just plain silly)

spockety

shakespeare wrote: »

im no fairweather spring chicken...and if im wrong ill be back to take my medicine.

(also, beating a dejected newcastle 5-1 is certainly not any kind of proof of a prolifically attacking side and bragging about it as anything more then a good performance against a team that regularly capitulates is just plain silly)

Ok well one match previous we beat bolton 3-0.

United only beat them 2-0.

Therefore we can conclude without any doubt that Liverpool are in fact 33% more attacking than Manchester United.

And just to put it beyond any doubt whatsoever, so far this season Liverpool have scored an average of 1.75 goals per league match, United have scored 1.61.
Liverpool have had an average of 14.45 shots at goal per game, United have had 14.27

Defensive me hole.

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

Ok well one match previous we beat bolton 3-0.

United only beat them 2-0.

Therefore we can conclude without any doubt that Liverpool are in fact 33% more attacking than Manchester United.

Sammy Lee in charge for both games - Sammy Lee - the genius behind the attacking prowess of liverpool, being held back by the his defensive overlord, Rafa. Clearly.

shakespeare

Chelsea

spockety wrote: »

Ok well one match previous we beat bolton 3-0.

United only beat them 2-0.

Therefore we can conclude without any doubt that Liverpool are in fact 33% more attacking than Manchester United.

and with that kind of logic...liverpool drew 0-0 with stoke yet we wopped em 5-0...so that makes us 5 times more attacking then liverpool and better looking...

but thats not logic...now is it?

Mitch Connor

kingshankly wrote: »

couldnt disagree more imo utd are playing the worse football of the top 4 at the moment there the new arsenal of the 90s (1-0)you have just contradicted yourself. im not saying liverpool will win the league but there playing as well as utd if not better.
i do think utd are liverpools greatest threat because the know how to win the league which could be invaluable come may

We are creating chances, just no finishing them. the 1-0 victories isn't down to shutting up shop and being happy with it, or playing boring football - out forwards just aren't scoring. in 4 games prior to Southamption, we had 89 shots (apparently). We are attacking teams, just our forwards can't seem to find the net with any kind of consistency.

spockety

shakespeare wrote: »

and with that kind of logic...liverpool drew 0-0 with stoke yet we wopped em 5-0...so that makes us 5 times more attacking then liverpool and better looking...

but thats not logic...now is it?

Yes it is.

Our ugliest (Kuyt) is still better looking than your ugliest (Tevez), so we win there too.

Hobart

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No they have not.

shakespeare wrote: »

I think Utd are gonna do it. Im a Utd fan but not too bias I hope.

Whichever way ya look at it, Liverpool have worked their arses off to be where they are. Fair play to them. They worked their arses off against utd and Chelsea and got results and deservedly so on both occasions if perhaps a bit fortuitous? But sometimes hard work earns luck I guess.

All teams that manage to lead the league after 50% of the season, work their arses off. All teams that win the league, win it by working their arses off, it goes with the territory.

A little bit of luck, or the "run of the ball" is always needed when the top 4 play against each other. These games are usually so tight, that the smallest deflection, or defensive lapse will make a huge difference. Have you not seen the Liverpool V Manu games over the last few seasons?

I just cant see Liverpool maintaining that kind of graft over a full season…and I cant abide by all this “Liverpool are playing poorly and winning…it’s the mark of champions” madness!

It's what Utd have done in the past, and I would suggest that it's what Utd are doing at the moment. Their last two league results would suggest that they are far from playing at their best, but still grinding out results.Sure they haven,t scored over a single goal in PL matches in the last 6. That's hardly belting them home, now, is it?

I disagree. The mark of champions, i.m.o, is in general, playing very well, beating some teams with a degree of comfort while playing good football, entertaining as well as getting results etc

I agree, to a certain extent, where I disagree is in the notion of "entertaining". I would rather see Liverpool grind out boring 1-0 results all year, and win the league, than trying to play like Arsenal, and losing it.

In relation to your so called "mark of Champions" can you show me how and where your choice of PL champions has played in such fashion?

event

never ceases to amazme me how people cannot have a discussion about their team without being defensive

i think united will win it. I had said liverpool would drop off but after seeing them over christmas, there is a determination to them i havent seen them before. They will be there to the end and it could be a matter of 3 points or so, but i think united experience will tell through, not that they have been playing better or anything.

but liverpool will there well up there at the end

Hobart

event wrote: »

never ceases to amazme me how people cannot have a discussion about their team without being defensive

It's the nature of the beats tbh.

i think united will win it. I had said liverpool would drop off but after seeing them over christmas, there is a determination to them i havent seen them before. They will be there to the end and it could be a matter of 3 points or so, but i think united experience will tell through, not that they have been playing better or anything.

but liverpool will there well up there at the end

I suspect that Manu will win it too. I don't discount Chelsea either at this stage, I would love Liverpool to do it, but I can't see it without Torres/Gerrard and Alonso all firing on all cylinders.

Mitch Connor

I think it is very close between all 3 of the top sides right now.

I keep expecting Liverpool to fall off a bit but they keeping getting (good) results, so they are doing all they can do.

I would still have United and Chelsea as favourites, based on the experience in the two squads and I think this weekends game will have a big say in which of those two sides finish above the other. It will then be a matter of Liverpool holding off the victor.

shakespeare

Chelsea

Hobart wrote: »

A little bit of luck, or the "run of the ball" is always needed when the top 4 play against each other. These games are usually so tight, that the smallest deflection, or defensive lapse will make a huge difference. Have you not seen the Liverpool V Manu games over the last few seasons?

of course i have...therefore, im not debating that liverpool deserved to win. that was my point?

It's what Utd have done in the past, and I would suggest that it's what Utd are doing at the moment. Their last two league results would suggest that they are far from playing at their best, but still grinding out results.Sure they haven,t scored over a single goal in PL matches in the last 6. That's hardly belting them home, now, is it?

my point is ya dont win a league by doing it all season...ill see you in may.

I agree, to a certain extent, where I disagree is in the notion of "entertaining". I would rather see Liverpool grind out boring 1-0 results all year, and win the league, than trying to play like Arsenal, and losing it.

In relation to your so called "mark of Champions" can you show me how and where your choice of PL champions has played in such fashion?

my point is we know Utd. Chelsea and even arsenal have been there and done it...they have they quality and bottle for the second half of the season from managers to some of the players to coaches to backroom staff...they are set up for it.(maybe Questions over Chelseas current regime) but watch this space...liverpool will not dissapoint and will fall away...because there are only so many Gerrard life lines a season and all the running in the world wont cover up the rest.

whatawaster

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

shakespeare wrote: »

and with that kind of logic...liverpool drew 0-0 with stoke yet we wopped em 5-0...so that makes us 5 times more attacking then liverpool and better looking...

but thats not logic...now is it?

since when does 5*0=5?

shakespeare

Chelsea

cant figure out this "quoting" lark...

LuckyLloyd

Man Utd (Man Utd fans)

spockety wrote: »

And just to put it beyond any doubt whatsoever, so far this season Liverpool have scored an average of 1.75 goals per league match, United have scored 1.61.
Liverpool have had an average of 14.45 shots at goal per game, United have had 14.27

Defensive me hole.

Careful now, actual facts may make some heads explode! What would Boggles make of those stats eh?

Mitch Connor

shakespeare wrote: »

my point is we know Utd. Chelsea and even arsenal have been there and done it...they have they quality and bottle for the second half of the season from managers to some of the players to coaches to backroom staff...they are set up for it.(maybe Questions over Chelseas current regime) but watch this space...liverpool will not dissapoint and will fall away...because there are only so many Gerrard life lines a season and all the running in the world wont cover up the rest.

I would say there would be more questions over Arsenal than Chelsea. How many of the current squad are league winners? And we saw them fall apart last season. And they are missing Fabregas